1. #1
    BennyMoore's Avatar Banned
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    Right, this is a halfhearted attempt, because I've completely given up on the game and do not care whether or not the P-38 is fixed. Besides, it can't be fully fixed with the current engine.

    However, someone decided it would be fun to call me stupid, a liar, and a bad pilot, and also imply that the P-38 was a miserable plane (unforgivable). And he referred to my earlier thread in which I made a mistake in my data. I point out once again that even after the data was corrected, the P-38 is still undermodelled. But no one wanted to hear that. Therefore, rather than giving you my calculations (correct or not), I will simply give you data. If you want to claim that the P-38 is just fine in the game, then you're going to have to ignore this.

    Forgive me if it seems incomplete and thrown oddly together, because it is. As I said, I lost interest in the case because I have given up on the game. I now can but sadly hope for a realistic World War Two game, preferably one with the P-38 in it.

    Anyway...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>P-38J
    Power Plant: 2 x 1,425 hp V-1710-89/91
    Dimensions:
    Span 52 0
    Length 37 ft 10
    Height 9 ft 10
    Wing Area Sq.ft. 327.5
    Weight
    Empty 12,780
    Gross 21,600

    Speeds
    Max mph/ft. 414/25,000
    Cruising mph 290
    Climb/min./ft. 7/20,000

    Service ceiling 44,000 ft
    Range st.miles 450

    Armament 1x 20mm
    4x 0.5 in.
    2x 1,600 lb.

    P-38L
    Power Plant: 2 x 1,475 hp V-1710-111/113
    Dimensions (same as J model):
    Span 52 0
    Length 37 ft 10
    Height 9 ft 10
    Wing Area Sq.ft. 327.5

    Weight
    Empty 12,800
    Gross 21,600

    Speeds (same as J model)
    Max mph/ft. 414/25,00
    Cruising 290
    Climb/min./ft. 7/20,000

    Service ceiling 44,000 ft
    Range st.miles 450

    Armament (same as J model)
    1x 20mm
    4x 0.5 in.
    2x 1,600 lb.
    //signed//
    JANIE W. SANTOS
    Chief, Information Products
    Air Force News Agency<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Once, when I e-mailed Oleg about a certain gauge in the P-38 J and L cockpits, he recommended me to look for a flight manual. I have since then acquired one (it came on the disk with Jeff Ethell's Roaring Glory video on the P-38). Here I would like to also reinforce my argument with data from Lockheed's P-38 Lighning pilot's handbook.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The airplane is stable at all normal speeds. The airplane
    becomes slightly nose-heavy when the flaps
    and landing gear are extended.

    With power OFF, the airplane stalls at the following
    indicated airspeeds at the gross weight noted:
    15,000 lb 17,000 lb. 19,000 lb.
    Flaps and landing
    gear UP 94 mph 100 mph 105 mph
    Flaps and landing
    gear DOWN 69 mph 74 mph 78 mph
    As stalling speed is approached, the center section
    stalls first with noticeable shaking of the airplane,
    however, the ailerons remain effective.
    In either power on or power off stalls with flaps and
    landing gear up, the airplane straight forward in a
    well controlled stall. With flaps and landing gear
    down, there appears to be a slight tendency to spin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Note the stall speeds, along with the weights! Make your conclusions. And be a man - be honest about it.
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  2. #2
    BennyMoore's Avatar Banned
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    Right, this is a halfhearted attempt, because I've completely given up on the game and do not care whether or not the P-38 is fixed. Besides, it can't be fully fixed with the current engine.

    However, someone decided it would be fun to call me stupid, a liar, and a bad pilot, and also imply that the P-38 was a miserable plane (unforgivable). And he referred to my earlier thread in which I made a mistake in my data. I point out once again that even after the data was corrected, the P-38 is still undermodelled. But no one wanted to hear that. Therefore, rather than giving you my calculations (correct or not), I will simply give you data. If you want to claim that the P-38 is just fine in the game, then you're going to have to ignore this.

    Forgive me if it seems incomplete and thrown oddly together, because it is. As I said, I lost interest in the case because I have given up on the game. I now can but sadly hope for a realistic World War Two game, preferably one with the P-38 in it.

    Anyway...

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>P-38J
    Power Plant: 2 x 1,425 hp V-1710-89/91
    Dimensions:
    Span 52 0
    Length 37 ft 10
    Height 9 ft 10
    Wing Area Sq.ft. 327.5
    Weight
    Empty 12,780
    Gross 21,600

    Speeds
    Max mph/ft. 414/25,000
    Cruising mph 290
    Climb/min./ft. 7/20,000

    Service ceiling 44,000 ft
    Range st.miles 450

    Armament 1x 20mm
    4x 0.5 in.
    2x 1,600 lb.

    P-38L
    Power Plant: 2 x 1,475 hp V-1710-111/113
    Dimensions (same as J model):
    Span 52 0
    Length 37 ft 10
    Height 9 ft 10
    Wing Area Sq.ft. 327.5

    Weight
    Empty 12,800
    Gross 21,600

    Speeds (same as J model)
    Max mph/ft. 414/25,00
    Cruising 290
    Climb/min./ft. 7/20,000

    Service ceiling 44,000 ft
    Range st.miles 450

    Armament (same as J model)
    1x 20mm
    4x 0.5 in.
    2x 1,600 lb.
    //signed//
    JANIE W. SANTOS
    Chief, Information Products
    Air Force News Agency<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Once, when I e-mailed Oleg about a certain gauge in the P-38 J and L cockpits, he recommended me to look for a flight manual. I have since then acquired one (it came on the disk with Jeff Ethell's Roaring Glory video on the P-38). Here I would like to also reinforce my argument with data from Lockheed's P-38 Lighning pilot's handbook.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The airplane is stable at all normal speeds. The airplane
    becomes slightly nose-heavy when the flaps
    and landing gear are extended.

    With power OFF, the airplane stalls at the following
    indicated airspeeds at the gross weight noted:
    15,000 lb 17,000 lb. 19,000 lb.
    Flaps and landing
    gear UP 94 mph 100 mph 105 mph
    Flaps and landing
    gear DOWN 69 mph 74 mph 78 mph
    As stalling speed is approached, the center section
    stalls first with noticeable shaking of the airplane,
    however, the ailerons remain effective.
    In either power on or power off stalls with flaps and
    landing gear up, the airplane straight forward in a
    well controlled stall. With flaps and landing gear
    down, there appears to be a slight tendency to spin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Note the stall speeds, along with the weights! Make your conclusions. And be a man - be honest about it.
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  3. #3
    OK I'm ready to take up your challenge. I'll be a man about it and I'll be honest.

    Although this is the best flight sim/game on the market it's not without it's shortcomings.

    It's not a multi million pound simulator as used by the military - it is a PC GAME

    The game was originally conceived as an IL2 sim with one flyable.
    Thankfully Oleg and team decided that they could add more flyables and the game grew.

    Perfection in every aspect of every FM is unnatainable with the processing power of even the most powerful PC.

    Why bother sweating over the data when there's so much fun to be had?

    Surely if the general concensus is that things are "about right" or "as close as we can get it" then that's good enough.
    I'd rather have all the flyables we do have (with the quirky FMs on some of them) than one flyable with a perfect FM.

    Just my 2 pence worth...

    S! Simon
    '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''



    Submit your files to the IL2 website
    il2submissions@ubisoft.co.uk
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  4. #4
    Extreme_one: 1
    Menny Moore: 0

    Seriously...I am sorry that you feel your favorite plane is undermodelled, but like Extreme One said...this is a game. They have a rediculous number of flyable aircraft in the game...and have by far the best post-release support of ANY game that I have ever played. The fact that Oleg even talked to you and asked you to get a manual for him to look at is unprecedented for many other developers.

    I love the Corsair. I can't wait to fly it. It is BY FAR my favorite WWII plane. So what am I going to do if the Corsair is undermodelled in PF? Go back to my German campaign, because it is an enormous amount of FUN.

    Chill out a bit, and you will realise that this game is a lot of fun.

    Hope to see you around.

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  5. #5
    Energy isnt moddeled in FB very well

    its one reason the P-38 doesnt do as well as you might expect Benny

    but again you have to test the p-38 against the Object viewer infomation . . . . . WHY ? , because those are the specs it is supposed to match & if it doesnt then you have a case of undermoddeling

    last time i checked , the L & J were correct for speed but were not able to reach there stated max alt

    .
    __________________________________________________ __________________________
    actual UBI post :
    "If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
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  6. #6
    Almost all planes in game have some quirks. Not only yours!

    P38 have some slightly slow speed and climb when compared to even obj view data. Stall speed is not that far from what you stated (remember teses speeds are without turning) 100Mph are 160 kph.. I can fly at 170 with it in game.. not that far (turn off wind and turbulence to test).

    But may birds have simmilar quirks, 190 zoom climb (although shallow climb is OK). All dives are very tightly simmilar, speed issues with spit (too slow on deck.. too high up high).


    So learn to live with game and hope that each day all FM get more precise.

    If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!
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  7. #7
    Hi,

    It's possible that your data is correct but it's not the only thing undermodelled/wrong in the game. In fact, I whine so much, my missus has started to oil my jaw on a regular basis.

    That aside, fly the P38 half the time and the P63 for the remainder so, on average, you are flying in a correctly modelled manner.

    Ta,
    Norris

    ================================================== ==========

    : Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
    http://cabinessence.cream.org/

    : More irreverence :
    http://www.tvgohome.com/

    : You've seen them... :
    www.chavscum.co.uk

    'Bugs? What bugs?'
    'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
    'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
    Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible
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  8. #8
    Keep in mind that while the allies had pretty good acess to the p-38, there wern't very many super planes like the 190D or the 152 floating around. The P-38 is on a slightly unrealistic play feild here.
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  9. #9
    robban75's Avatar Senior Member
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    1,869
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
    Keep in mind that while the allies had pretty good acess to the p-38, there wern't very many super planes like the 190D or the 152 floating around. The P-38 is on a slightly unrealistic play feild here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I've seen numbers on the D-9 ranging from 600-1600. I'm guessing they could have been a more regular sight(in the air) if there'd been more fuel avaliable.



    Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

    "I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."
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  10. #10
    Xnomad's Avatar Senior Member
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    649
    What I don't understand is in "Fork Tailed Devil" the talk is about the P-38 being far better than the Bf 109 at very low altitudes and that it could out turn it there, I can't imagine a big fighter like that doing something like that, but that's what was written in the book. It was said that the Luftwaffe didn't have a plane that could come up against the P-38 at low alt.

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