1. #1
    Swiss tagteam!

    I still cannot see how it matters whether the use of trim to turn faster can be of much advantage in combat, as long as the plane drains energy in accordance. In this sense it doesn't matter whether it's a cheat, expoit, trick, or fully legitimate manoeuver. It seems to me that it can only help you avoid someone making a pass and result in losing your energy. It also might be helpful to avoid hitting the ground.

    RayBan, as a proponent of the use of trim, help me understand how one can use it to an advantage in engagments? I am curious about this.

    Greetings from Zurich,
    Mike
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  2. #2
    My only gripe about this whole thing is the fact that I own a Cougar,I have trim assigned to a wheel. By admission of this by most people comments/opinions that would make me a cheat....hmmmmm good theory.

    Trim in any fashion is currently too fast..keyboard,stick,macro,slider,wheel, dogsled...ahh you get my drift. A timed deployment as most of us have said like flaps is what is needed.

    I get very offended by the term cheat and it's ease of use by many online to console their virtual egos after a solid legitimate thrashing by some. There are better players out their than yourself.

    Once we cry wolf and stop learning from others to better our abilities we are no better than those that use the 'exploits'. We're using a crutch to explain our loss as they are to create a win. This argument is no better than the VVS have better planes the Luft. That one IMHO is hilarious and a definite excuse for lack of ability...pssst I fly a 109 [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif[/img]

    This perception has now created a everyone uses trim as a cheat online and we have 1000 chicken littles running around screaming the sky is falling. Remeber people ones perception is their reality..no matter how baseless it is in theory.

    Enough said about this. I think too many of you are wrapped too tight and need a hug on this subject. Go pet a puppy,smoke a cig,have a drink or something jeez. [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif[/img]


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  3. #3
    Hi Andy,

    I've read in previous posts how the trim can be used to accelerate a turn, even beyond structural limits, by allowing elevator authority that the strength of a pilot's arms would otherwise not allow. What I don't understand is how this can be used to an advantage, although one possible use has just occurred to me.

    The only possibility of an advantage I can see is if you are in a high-speed head-on and someone uses quick trim input to whip his plane around before you, so that he is quickly on your six before you can turn. However, if you see this happening, you can observe that you now have a higher energy (since the opponent has drained off so much by turning so quickly with trim), so you extend somewhat. It ultimately is only an advantage if the person not using the trim is going to keep trying to turn into their opponent using trim. I still don't see how it ultimately negatively leads to a gross advantage over an energy-conscious pilot. If it doesn't lead to a roughly corresponding energy loss as Kimura indicates, then maybe there is an advantage to be had.

    It doesn't help at low speeds, and people are not usually turning and burning at high speeds where air loading becomes a factor.

    So, am I correct in thinking that the use of trim is being used to quickly about-face after a head-on? I suppose you could trick somebody into a dive-out and then use trim input to pull up quicker, causing them to dive into the ground (if they're so naive).

    Is that clearer?

    Blurski: I don't think that the elevators would snap off, because it is still the wings which are taking most of the stress (the elevator is only serving to change the angle of attack of the wings). My guess is that it is more likely that the wings and/or fuselage would come apart.

    So my question to RayBan and others remains the same: how do you use quick trim input in your combat tactics? I am still curious about this.

    Mike
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  4. #4
    Hey guys.. Andy is a good source of information and has run a top notch site for many years emcompassing many sims. I have alot of respect for him as should you...I believe it's earned.

    Now with that said... I do not agree with Andy that trim should not be mapped to a rotary knob on a HOTAS. Yes as I stated before trim deployment is TOO FAST in it's current state. If all other trim inputs...keyboard etc were set to the same rate of use then all would be good yes? The blackout in externals is a much needed feature...maybe it could be switched via difficulty settings? Who knows that's a question for Oleg.


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  5. #5
    No one is denying that a problem does not exhist. Just the inaccurate statements of trim use or which button/knob on a stick is mapped as a whole as a cheat. Trust me I spend alot of time around here and working on IL2.
    Trim on a rotary or slider is NOT the issue. Rate of deployment IS.

    Abraxa wrote:
    - Thanks Andy Bush. After this technical explanation,
    - the advantage/cheat deniers (and users obviously)
    - can just shut up once for all!



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  6. #6
    I just hate being grouped into a category due to my choice of stick and where I choose to apply my settings on the equipment. Not how I use them. All to often I hear the your a cheat talk [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif[/img] I had a guy from a 'reputable' squad call me one last week [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif[/img] Nothing burns my a.. more than that. Only thing is 99.9% of the time most people don't know it's me as I fly under a different name online.......guarded secret [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif[/img] this way I get to fly and not discuss system issues [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif[/img]


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    Message Edited on 10/23/0207:11PM by Hunter82
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  7. #7
    ROFLMAO
    BuzzU wrote:
    - Except I know what it is Hunter. Send me your
    - Cougar, and system, and I won't tell anybody


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  8. #8
    I never use rudder trim because I can't in a 109 [img]/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif[/img]


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