1. #1


    How would it have faired if R-R had 'fixed' their problematic Vulture...









    Here's the last moments of Manchester L7497





    Last chance for the Manchester to survive...

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  2. #2
    Badly I think! And,if it had worked 'acceptably',I wonder if the RAF would ever have had the Lancaster.
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  3. #3
    Aaron_GT's Avatar Senior Member
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    The Vulture wasn't just unreliable; it left the Manchester underpowered. Whilst able to carry the required P.13/36 load of 8000lb if it had not been given four engines it would have fallen by the wayside to the Halifax. In fact Chadwick was already designing for four Merlins before the Vulture failed.

    The other competitor might have been a redesigned Stirling (hich was to B.13/36) with better high altitude performance perhaps with high altitude Sabres. Bigger bombload, albeit with smaller maximum bomb size.
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  4. #4
    leitmotiv's Avatar Senior Member
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    Read the outstanding technical history of the Manchester:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Avro-Manchester-Legend-Behind-L...id=1218047834&sr=1-1

    The engine problems were solved eventually. Chadwick, the designer, knew four Merlins would make a far superior bomber, and had urged the development of the Merlin version before the Manchester had flopped in its first year on ops. The Halifax was initially going to have two Vultures, too, but Handley-Page petitioned for the Merlin.
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  5. #5
    Aaron_GT's Avatar Senior Member
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    P.13/36 was a flawed MEDIUM bomber specification and the fact that two decent HEAVY bombers resulted from it is pretty amazing. The P.13/36 specification called for an 8000lb short range load, 4000lb long range, overload launch by steam catapult! HP redesigned their aircraft for four engines sooner, and the reworking was much more extensive as Avro were more committed with the Manchester.

    B.13/36 was intended to be the companion heavy bomber, but due to it heading towards being overweight it had its wings clipped which hampered high altitude performance. It was proposed by Shorts to introduce a bigger wing and high altitude Sabres and possibly revise the bombay (short range load 19,000 lb) but by that time the Lancaster was available and its load at distance was very similar as it could fly that bit higher and more efficiently.

    The bombers were aimed at a 1940 introduction date (1941 achieved for Stirling and Manchester) which was when WW2 was expected but were even then intended only as interim types pending a series of more ambitious types (the smaller being a little smaller than a B-29, the larger around the size of a B-36) that were never produced.
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  6. #6
    Originally posted by leitmotiv:
    Read the outstanding technical history of the Manchester:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Avro-Manchester-Legend-Behind-L...id=1218047834&sr=1-1

    The engine problems were solved eventually. Chadwick, the designer, knew four Merlins would make a far superior bomber, and had urged the development of the Merlin version before the Manchester had flopped in its first year on ops. The Halifax was initially going to have two Vultures, too, but Handley-Page petitioned for the Merlin.
    leitmotiv, funnily enough thats just the book I bought this week...

    It is quite an excellent read...
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  7. #7
    leitmotiv's Avatar Senior Member
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    Amazing book, innit? The pilot who flew one back from Berlin on one engine---what a story! The Manchester is one of my favorite aircraft.
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  8. #8
    MB_Avro_UK's Avatar Senior Member
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    Great Pics Archie

    When I saw the thread title I wondered if it was about me

    Best Regards,
    MB_Avro.
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  9. #9
    Taylortony's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally posted by leitmotiv:
    Amazing book, innit? The pilot who flew one back from Berlin on one engine---what a story! The Manchester is one of my favorite aircraft.
    Especially considering if you loose an engine on a modern piston twin, the other engine simply delivers you to the crash site......
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  10. #10
    MB_Avro_UK's Avatar Senior Member
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    Great pic of the pilot in the cockpit.

    Today, his flying helmet and Oxygen mask in good condition would be worth about £1,800.00!!

    Just a thought...

    Best Regards,
    MB_Avro.
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