1. #1
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  2. #2
    ElAurens's Avatar Senior Member
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    The late P47D is more than a bit too slow.

    Interesting, but not surprising.
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  3. #3
    AndyJWest's Avatar Senior Member
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    The zINFOMOD mod estimates the performance of the aircraft based on the flight model parameters. These estimates are not guarantied to be 100% correct. An actual manual flight test should be preformed to confirm these estimated results.
    Or to put it another way, these results don't actually tell you anything definite in absolute terms, though they may be useful for making general comparisons between aircraft modelled in IL-2 - as Oleg said years back about this, and about IL-2 Compare, which uses the a similar method to generate data.

    This sort of 'evidence' has been used far too often to 'prove' that an aircraft underperforms (never overperforms though, I wonder why?), without actually doing the required real-(sim)world testing. I'm inclined to think that if people didn't keep quoting results derived this way as evidence, proper testing methods might have been developed by now.
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  4. #4
    ElAurens's Avatar Senior Member
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    Tagert's testing methods have in the past indeed showed several aircraft that were overperforming.

    This type of testing is very accurate in comparing aircraft in the sim to each other as it removes the human element, and all it's inherant flaws from the equation.

    The results are repeatable, unlike human sim testing, which can have very different results for the same aircraft on multiple test "flights", as no one is a robot and able to fly a perfect test profile.

    And these tests are indeed "flown" by the testing program, and not just numbers pulled from the FM data in the code. And they are done on a map that has correct standard day conditions, unike any stock map in the sim.
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  5. #5
    M_Gunz's Avatar Banned
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    Originally posted by ElAurens:
    Tagert's testing methods have in the past indeed showed several aircraft that were overperforming.
    LOL! ROFL!
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  6. #6
    ytareh's Avatar Senior Member
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    Wow this looks like Graph Heaven !But Im curious is it just the beloved IL2 Compare reformatted or is it new , providing alternative information?
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  7. #7
    JtD's Avatar Senior Member
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    Mind you, the games "standard" map is Crimea, aircraft performance is supposed to reach real values on that map. Making flight tests on a modded map with other conditions makes it impossible to compare in game values to real life values.

    So that:
    The late P47D is more than a bit too slow.
    is just as ridiculous as
    And these tests are indeed "flown" by the testing program, and not just numbers pulled from the FM data in the code.
    since they are very obviously not flown. It is, believe it or not, nothing more than il-2 compare data.

    I also find it disturbing that someone finds it suitable to label himself NACA.
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  8. #8
    So real ac performance, flown by real pilots is compared to ac in a game flown by a robot (program) and then labeled as "uber" or "allied"? (couldnt help myselfe)

    Sounds accurate enough.
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  9. #9
    Erkki_M's Avatar Senior Member
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    Nothing personal, ElAurens, really, but:

    Originally posted by ElAurens:
    Tagert's testing methods..
    Lol.
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  10. #10
    AndyJWest's Avatar Senior Member
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    ...these tests are indeed "flown" by the testing program, and not just numbers pulled from the FM data in the code.
    Are they actually 'flown' though? This isn't what the reports seem to say:
    SIMULATED WORLD DATA

    All of the flight model parameters and raw performance data were obtained using the zINFOMOD. Note that for the most part the math of the 6DOF flight model does not change from one aircraft to another. The specific aircraft parameters used by the flight model math is what changes from one aircraft to another and makes one aircraft different from another.

    To make an analogy the flight model along with the flight model parameters comprise the ‘black box’; the user’s inputs along with the planes current state in the 3D world are the ‘inputs’ to the ‘black box’; the performance values shown in the following graphs are the ‘outputs’ of the ‘black box’. The difference here being the user’s is replaced by zINFOMOD. The zINFOMOD internally puts the aircraft through a set of standard tests and outputs the raw performance results to several log files. The raw performance results and derived performance results are presented in the following graphs and tables.

    The zINFOMOD mod estimates the performance of the aircraft based on the flight model parameters. These estimates are not guarantied to be 100% correct. An actual manual flight test should be preformed to confirm these estimated results. Also note that some of the min and max values listed in the table of flight model parameters may not match the min max values of the graph. This is in part due to the fact that some of these parameters can interact which in turn force the flight model maker to tweak a flight model parameter to get the desired ‘black box’ output.
    Now, I've not used zINFOMOD, and don't know exactly how it works, but I've always understood that it extracts FM data, and uses this to estimate performance. This seems to be what the above suggests.

    In any case, the choice when making tests is not necessarily just between zINFOMOD and a human pilot. There are ways to control the real-(sim)world aircraft using DeviceLink to eliminate the human factors, as was shown by the LesniHU application some time ago. Using this, or similar applications, should give consistent 'real' results, avoiding external 'black box' estimates.
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