1. #101
    Bone_Frog's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by D.DVD Go to original post
    @LaMoi If you ever shot a Fal (or M14, or anything in 7.62Nato) in full auto, you would know that it is inaccurate :P So they got it right on.
    Exactly. Battle rifles like the M14 and the FAL were never really meant to accurately put automatic weapons fire on a target. They were meant to reach out and crush someone. Back when that was the issued rifle to the Marines they had to qualify on a range at 200, 300 and 500m, as opposed to the M16 where they qualified(pre-optics) from 50-300m. However, they were also considered nearly uncontrollable in full-auto fire. Today using a SCAR-H or an M14 with an M150(a 4x ACOG for the layman) optic Army squad designated marksman are expected to be able to engage targets out to 800m.

    In all honesty in most small unit tactics (hunt through YouTube and you will find lots of former Tier 1 personalities saying this) you almost never use Full-Auto fire(except as a suppression technique really). The M16 and M4 because of their inline Stoner design have very low felt recoil and climb and so are able to deliver semi-accurate burst fire, and are essentially designed to be fired quickly and in close range. Most things in 7.62 NATO are not. Those are typically the DMR rifles that can in a pinch go CQB.

    As an added detractor most 7.62 supersonic rife rounds will not begin to yaw inside their targets within 150m. Which means most of the power is being blown out the back side of the target and not transferred into it, causing what we would call in game "damage". Though 7.62NATO will put a hurt on a target at 150m+ and will both yaw and spall within a target exiting with enough force to lethally strike his friends standing behind him. There is a case study floating around the internet done by some investigative journalists at the New York Times where they did the terminal forensics of a single sniper shot that killed 7 people, the belligerent and 6 people in a spall cone behind him out another 50m.

    Honestly I don't think the way the game mechanics currently work that battle rifles and DMRs have a real role. They are more there for guys who like certain guns because of COD or whatever.
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  2. #102
    LaMOi's Avatar Senior Member
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    I’ve never shot a gun. ;(
    My only frame of reference is other games.

    Thank goodness we have experienced ex military types to tell us where gamer reality ends ! ;p


    It appears most definitely the odd one out then in that category.
    Because it seems to have a an effective range of about 20ft (which is slightly generous!)
    No other gun in the assault rifle category has a spray as wide as that. I haven’t noticed much compensation in its damage either.

    Also as a side note — LMG’s are pretty useless in Wildlands too...
    That doesn’t appear the case in real life? Well soldier?
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  3. #103
    Ghost416's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LaMOi Go to original post
    Also as a side note — LMG’s are pretty useless in Wildlands too...
    That doesn’t appear the case in real life? Well soldier?
    That's because IRL the role of a machine gun is to suppress an enemy. Basically, keep them hunkered down while someone flanks their position or calls in CAS. Since there's no suppression mechanic in the game, LMGs pretty much function as high-capacity assault rifles.

    The only shooter games I've ever had that had a suppression mechanic were America's Army: Rise of a Soldier (never played the others, they probably have it, too) and Medal of Honor 2010, the latter of which had it limited to one sequence in one mission.
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  4. #104
    Bone_Frog's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by LaMOi Go to original post
    I’ve never shot a gun. ;(
    My only frame of reference is other games.

    Thank goodness we have experienced ex military types to tell us where gamer reality ends ! ;p


    It appears most definitely the odd one out then in that category.
    Because it seems to have a an effective range of about 20ft (which is slightly generous!)
    No other gun in the assault rifle category has a spray as wide as that. I haven’t noticed much compensation in its damage either.

    Also as a side note — LMG’s are pretty useless in Wildlands too...
    That doesn’t appear the case in real life? Well soldier?
    Soldier? Dude there is no reason to hurl insults, I know how to count to ten with my shoes on and add past 2.

    Now as to your question, I haven't really tried LMGs in the game that much beyond the M249 and and M60E. Generally speaking IRL a person will qualify on squad automatic on targets 50-300 meter. They are expected to be able hit moving point targets(aka indivduals) at 200m, stationary point targets out to 600m, and area suppression out 800m. Now in general the purpose of an LMG is to either suppress an enemy or stop a forward charge with sweeping fire through the pelvic girdle. I've heard from people that have been there, that in the Q Course guys who are training for 18B have to set up on ambush, and then are given a freeze order. The instructor will then affix a laser pointer to the barrel of their SAW and another instructor will walk out 300m. If the laser isn't in the pelvic girdle it is a failure of the training evolution.

    Now in game distances are compressed. I mean an M4 with a 4x ACOG should be able to take out a guy 600m out without much difficulty. A DMR 1000+m. A precision sniper rifle 1500-2000m(with records out to 3500m). You aren't getting ranges anything like that in game. Then Bolivia in game is only like 28km from nothern border to southern border and IRL Bolivia is about 1300km long.

    Now personally I've found that used as LMGs are intended, LMGs do just fine in game. You can mow down a clump of enemy pretty effectively with one in my experience. In fact every time I've made it to the end of Guerilla mode it was using an LMG.
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  5. #105
    LaMOi's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Ghost416 Go to original post
    That's because IRL the role of a machine gun is to suppress an enemy. Basically, keep them hunkered down while someone flanks their position or calls in CAS. Since there's no suppression mechanic in the game, LMGs pretty much function as high-capacity assault rifles.

    The only shooter games I've ever had that had a suppression mechanic were America's Army: Rise of a Soldier (never played the others, they probably have it, too) and Medal of Honor 2010, the latter of which had it limited to one sequence in one mission.
    Woah there cowboy. Wildlands is my game son.

    See I find it weird that quite a few have denied suppression in Wildlands...

    BUT....

    .... It DOES have suppression.
    It’s one of the only open world games I know of that the enemies do respond to suppression dynamically.
    In fact the AI responds to shots in quite sophisticated ways at times, it has surprised me the variety of animations they have for this.

    I can do a vid — when I have time.
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  6. #106
    LaMOi's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Bone_Frog Go to original post
    Soldier? Dude there is no reason to hurl insults, I know how to count to ten with my shoes on and add past 2.

    Now as to your question, I haven't really tried LMGs in the game that much beyond the M249 and and M60E. Generally speaking IRL a person will qualify on squad automatic on targets 50-300 meter. They are expected to be able hit moving point targets(aka indivduals) at 200m, stationary point targets out to 600m, and area suppression out 800m. Now in general the purpose of an LMG is to either suppress an enemy or stop a forward charge with sweeping fire through the pelvic girdle. I've heard from people that have been there, that in the Q Course guys who are training for 18B have to set up on ambush, and then are given a freeze order. The instructor will then affix a laser pointer to the barrel of their SAW and another instructor will walk out 300m. If the laser isn't in the pelvic girdle it is a failure of the training evolution.

    Now in game distances are compressed. I mean an M4 with a 4x ACOG should be able to take out a guy 600m out without much difficulty. A DMR 1000+m. A precision sniper rifle 1500-2000m(with records out to 3500m). You aren't getting ranges anything like that in game. Then Bolivia in game is only like 28km from nothern border to southern border and IRL Bolivia is about 1300km long.

    Now personally I've found that used as LMGs are intended, LMGs do just fine in game. You can mow down a clump of enemy pretty effectively with one in my experience. In fact every time I've made it to the end of Guerilla mode it was using an LMG.
    Sorry — should’ve said Sailor!

    Yeah I’ve used LMG’s effectively at times in similar fashion, but sometimes when prone even, they’re still pretty inaccurate even with controlled bursts, and the damage seems minimal...?

    What the most effect LMG in the game would you say...


    LMG’s I suspect are way more fun to use and feel more punchy in Breakpoint (from the footage I’ve seen) but I suppose less realistic eh...?
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  7. #107
    Ghost416's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Bone_Frog Go to original post
    Soldier? Dude there is no reason to hurl insults, I know how to count to ten with my shoes on and add past 2.
    What are you going to do, write a book about it?
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  8. #108
    Bone_Frog's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Ghost416 Go to original post
    What are you going to do, write a book about it?
    Can't help it if people actually want to read our books. SF guys have been writing books at a pretty steady clip since the first one in 1985. You may have hard of it, there was a film adaptation by the same name with John Wayne as the lead it was called The Green Berets.
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  9. #109
    Ghost416's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Bone_Frog Go to original post
    Can't help it if people actually want to read our books. SF guys have been writing books at a pretty steady clip since the first one in 1985. You may have hard of it, there was a film adaptation by the same name with John Wayne as the lead it was called The Green Berets.
    SEAL Team Six: Memoirs of a Tier One Operator and His Battles With Online Flamers. It'll be a New York Times best seller. When you get to this passage, though, just make sure to point out how ruggedly handsome and such a big hit with the ladies that I am.
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