View Poll Results: Should Ubisoft Quebec implement AC Origin's enemy level scaling: add it as an option?

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  • Yes

    524 88.81%
  • No

    66 11.19%

Thread: Forced enemy level scaling | Forums

  1. #1121
    gilgamesh_2500's Avatar Junior Member
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    Originally Posted by longjohn119 Go to original post
    REALITY CHECK

    The game will actually get harder if you turn off auto-leveling and that's is EASILY PROVEN with simple logic .....

    You'll never get gear from NPCs or chest that you can use to upgrade your gear, and since you won't get as many resources breaking it down or selling it you'll never be able to afford to upgrade the gear you already have much less be able to afford upgrade one on your ship ...... I doubt you'd even make it as far as Athens before you were forced to just quit because you'd have to grind for hours on end just to level up 2 weapons and 5 pieces of gear

    If you are level 30 in a level 20 area all your gear drops are going to be 18-20 and upgrading them to your level would be impossible because every time you got close you have been bumped up a level and you'd have to grind even more resources and by the time you got remotely close you'd be bumped a level again and right back where you started, needing even more resources

    Frankly I think Ubisoft should turn it off just to shut you whiners the hell up after you see how damned broken the game will be .....
    Technically, that's true.
    But you forgot something: the developers chose the resource amounts needed for each upgrade, and they're just outrageous.
    In origins you didn't need so much resources, and you didn't even need to upgrade your gear as often as you do in odyssey.

    Level scaling is just one part of the problem. The other part is the huge resource amounts needed for every upgrade, and keep in mind that now you also have to upgrade your armour set parts and your ship. This is what caused the problem that you used as a justification for the auto level scaling, so that you would get enough resources.

    And you never get enough resources. I do a lot of side quests and sites and still struggle even to upgrade my main 3 weapons and ship.

    All of the above becomes even worse due to the other problem which is a serious one that I've already mentioned before: the lack of balance in damage.
    There is no logical reason why should a single hit from some regular soldier one level below you, or even a civilian who just picked up a sword, cause you more damage than a single hit from you would cause him.
    There is just no excuse for that.
    And that's why you need your gear upgraded to their max all the time, and then the ridiculous amounts of resources required come into play and make it all worse.

    I was trying to fight that farting boar (that's what it really is!) It killed me multiple times. Such a non sophisticated enemy that filled the whole area with gases that it farted and left you no where to hide. It simply had a really long health bar.
    Then I changed my strategy and took it down with the devastating red arrows in less than 10 seconds. Guess what? It wasn't fun either. Because the boss isn't sophisticated and doesn't really test your creativity.

    So all this lack of balance just cannot be ignored.
    This isn't simply auto level scaling.
    As I've already said in a previous post, no matter which level you are, go out and try to fight a couple of enemies at your level without using any skills. You will definitely feel how imbalanced the damage/health system is. (And at many cases there won't be a just couple of soldiers, but you would be surrounded by a bunch of soldiers at some fort because of some failed assassination or whatever). There is no reasonable and legitimate explanation for that lack of balance in damage. And I'm talking about regular soldiers, not even commanders.

    And even with bosses, there is no acceptable reason why I need 10 minutes if hitting a couple of these fighting school students at some quest, wearing no armour whatsoever, just to defeat them, while they can kill me with 3 hits or so. And they are just taking massive attacks from me, even using the massive attack combination.
    They are not sophisticated enemies, the developers could make them sophisticated by granting them the skill to avoid my hits and make the fight really challenging and fun. But taking all of my sword hits on their naked skin and barely losing any health?
    That's sort of lazy boss developing in my opinion. And it is true for most of the bosses in the game. Too bad.
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  2. #1122
    longjohn119's Avatar Member
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    For anyone who thinks this isn't a complex interconnected symbiotic system then I dare you to lay this all out on a spread sheet and make it work by coming up with the same numbers as Ubisoft did in their main and detailed stats

    Then turn off the auto-leveling and make it all work

    If you think the game is too hard then good luck with this challenge .......
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  3. #1123
    longjohn119's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by gilgamesh_2500 Go to original post
    Technically, that's true.
    But you forgot something: the developers chose the resource amounts needed for each upgrade, and they're just outrageous.
    In origins you didn't need so much resources, and you didn't even need to upgrade your gear as often as you do in odyssey.

    Level scaling is just one part of the problem. The other part is the huge resource amounts needed for every upgrade, and keep in mind that now you also have to upgrade your armour set parts and your ship. This is what caused the problem that you used as a justification for the auto level scaling, so that you would get enough resources.

    And you never get enough resources. I do a lot of side quests and sites and still struggle even to upgrade my main 3 weapons and ship.

    All of the above becomes even worse due to the other problem which is a serious one that I've already mentioned before: the lack of balance in damage.
    There is no logical reason why should a single hit from some regular soldier one level below you, or even a civilian who just picked up a sword, cause you more damage than a single hit from you would cause him.
    There is just no excuse for that.
    And that's why you need your gear upgraded to their max all the time, and then the ridiculous amounts of resources required come into play and make it all worse.

    I was trying to fight that farting boar (that's what it really is!) It killed me multiple times. Such a non sophisticated enemy that filled the whole area with gases that it farted and left you no where to hide. It simply had a really long health bar.
    Then I changed my strategy and took it down with the devastating red arrows in less than 10 seconds. Guess what? It wasn't fun either. Because the boss isn't sophisticated and doesn't really test your creativity.

    So all this lack of balance just cannot be ignored.
    This isn't simply auto level scaling.
    As I've already said in a previous post, no matter which level you are, go out and try to fight a couple of enemies at your level without using any skills. You will definitely feel how imbalanced the damage/health system is. (And at many cases there won't be a just couple of soldiers, but you would be surrounded by a bunch of soldiers at some fort because of some failed assassination or whatever). There is no reasonable and legitimate explanation for that lack of balance in damage. And I'm talking about regular soldiers, not even commanders.

    And even with bosses, there is no acceptable reason why I need 10 minutes if hitting a couple of these fighting school students at some quest, wearing no armour whatsoever, just to defeat them, while they can kill me with 3 hits or so. And they are just taking massive attacks from me, even using the massive attack combination.
    They are not sophisticated enemies, the developers could make them sophisticated by granting them the skill to avoid my hits and make the fight really challenging and fun. But taking all of my sword hits on their naked skin and barely losing any health?
    That's sort of lazy boss developing in my opinion. And it is true for most of the bosses in the game. Too bad.
    I took out that same boar with three devastating poison shots to the face ....... I never drew my melee weapon and he never got close enough for me to even hit him with it anyway ....... Fight smarter not harder ......
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  4. #1124
    Pottross's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by IRCRomeo Go to original post
    Sales mean nothing when countless people were tricked into buying the game thinking it's part of the AC franchise when it's just in name only. The fans, the diehards, the loyalists did not ask for this type of gameplay.

    I feel offended, and as if I was stolen from, to have the series ruined for me. I was so excited to get AC Odyssey on launch, and to invest 20 hours to realize how broken the game was, I put it away hoping the game would be fixed. Two months later and it still hasn't been fixed. If I could do a chargeback for buying the game I would, though it isn't the retailers fault Ubisoft made a mistake with altering the series.
    Excuse me, I should have known that facts would be unwelcome in this thread.

    So I'll go with my gut feelings from now on: The level scaling opposition in this conversation just demand to roflstomp the game as was usually the case with the first entries in the series. At the same time (again my gut feeling) they refuse to look into the mechanics this game has to offer. They seem to demand fights to be non-strategical frag-fests and when pulling the entire city/fort they complain that they get stopped by a broom-wielding civilian (not mentioning the 200 guards and 60 mercenaries). This is BS. You, the player, has a choice to pick fights that are actually winnable on your own skill level, instead of demanding every suicide mission to be a success. If you want this to be an ASSASSIN'S creed game, stop charging into stuff head-first as a warrior... Around the 30-40% mark of the game everything becomes possible though, you can easily be as aggressive or as strategical as you would like. Being the walking god people seem to demand being in the game is certainly achievable WITH auto-scaling on.
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  5. #1125
    Olympus2018's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by longjohn119 Go to original post
    REALITY CHECK

    The game will actually get harder if you turn off auto-leveling and that's is EASILY PROVEN with simple logic .....

    You'll never get gear from NPCs or chest that you can use to upgrade your gear, and since you won't get as many resources breaking it down or selling it you'll never be able to afford to upgrade the gear you already have much less be able to afford upgrade one on your ship ...... I doubt you'd even make it as far as Athens before you were forced to just quit because you'd have to grind for hours on end just to level up 2 weapons and 5 pieces of gear

    If you are level 30 in a level 20 area all your gear drops are going to be 18-20 and upgrading them to your level would be impossible because every time you got close you have been bumped up a level and you'd have to grind even more resources and by the time you got remotely close you'd be bumped a level again and right back where you started, needing even more resources

    Frankly I think Ubisoft should turn it off just to shut you whiners the hell up after you see how damned broken the game will be .....
    That's not true. I am now at level 32 and still can't find a way to kill the Kalydonian boar. If I could switch off level scaling, the Kalydonian board would return to level 10 or so.... So I could kill it, together with the annoying little piggies. I used poison and fire arrows at no avail. The Boar is still too strong and at level 27, just 4 levels below me, assisted by more little piggies, it is a real pain in the ......

    It reminds me of the giant elephants in Origins. I managed to kill them after a 10-minute battle (for each one of them). Really tiresome stuff. Legendary animals/bosses are hard until your build is super duper.

    So, switching off level scaling can be really useful at times.
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  6. #1126
    Pottross's Avatar Member
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    Well, you picked the arguably toughest enemy in the game to get a point across. It's all downhill difficulty-wise after that boar. I still think that, at level 32, you should be easily able to bash its snout, keep going and you will succeed. It's not gonna be rewarding once you kill it with a difference of 25 levels between you. Also the boar is kinda optional, you can always skip ahead, continue story and come back even later/stronger.

    On a side note, I'm really curious what's going to happen, when the level-scaling-toggle releases and things are still too difficult to handle for some? I'd say instead of "forcing" the developer to make the game more accessible, why not simply cheat or use a trainer? It's single player after all, no one cares. Maybe Ubi should release an official trainer for the game, instead of changing actual mechanics?
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  7. #1127
    Olympus2018's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Pottross Go to original post
    Well, you picked the arguably toughest enemy in the game to get a point across. It's all downhill difficulty-wise after that boar. I still think that, at level 32, you should be easily able to bash its snout, keep going and you will succeed. It's not gonna be rewarding once you kill it with a difference of 25 levels between you. Also the boar is kinda optional, you can always skip ahead, continue story and come back even later/stronger.

    On a side note, I'm really curious what's going to happen, when the level-scaling-toggle releases and things are still too difficult to handle for some? I'd say instead of "forcing" the developer to make the game more accessible, why not simply cheat or use a trainer? It's single player after all, no one cares. Maybe Ubi should release an official trainer for the game, instead of changing actual mechanics?
    The animus control panel = official trainer could solve ALL of our problems, I think. The Kalydonian boar was originally designed to be at level 10. If you can't kill it at level 30, what kind of level 10 is this? My weapons are 30+ level. Do I need 100 different engravings all stacking on each other to kill the damn boar? Come on. This is a joke. Level scaling is absurd.

    In the beginning of the game, you are the weakest character in the whole world. In the end of the game, you should become a demi-god. Now, you can't. Even at level 70, everyone else is at least 66!
    This is nonsense. In Origins, when I reached level 50, I could go back to level 10 areas and handle all my enemies even when I was surrounded by 10 NPCs. With auto-scaling, you will never be able to defeat all your enemies if you are surrounded by elite soldiers because the game does NOT have a really EASY mode.


    I am not saying that I will not be able to kill the Kalydonian boar but I am gonna need some extra abilities and engravings to destroy it. And this is a Level 10 enemy. Level 10? Seriously? More like Level 70. Obviously the devs had Dark Souls in mind, when they designed Odyssey.
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  8. #1128
    ProdiGurl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Yes, this is the bottom line, overleveling to make less challenge & the hardest ones easy. -
    But again, this isn't all about scaling, but the amount of DAMAGE they tack on to give the enemies.

    Same level - You swipe them with your fire and it takes you 3-5 swipes to set them on fire. They swipe you once and you're a human torch.
    That is not scaling or level, it's damage advantage.
    This stuff can be tweaked for Easy level. Easy Level's enemy damage ratio's can be dropped and drop scaling down 3-4 levels below.

    Make Easy level SO insanely simple, they can't complain that it's just too hard. And if they do, they really shouldn't be playing anything but arcade & racing games.
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  9. #1129
    IRCRomeo's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by Pottross Go to original post
    Excuse me, I should have known that facts would be unwelcome in this thread.

    So I'll go with my gut feelings from now on: The level scaling opposition in this conversation just demand to roflstomp the game as was usually the case with the first entries in the series. At the same time (again my gut feeling) they refuse to look into the mechanics this game has to offer. They seem to demand fights to be non-strategical frag-fests and when pulling the entire city/fort they complain that they get stopped by a broom-wielding civilian (not mentioning the 200 guards and 60 mercenaries). This is BS. You, the player, has a choice to pick fights that are actually winnable on your own skill level, instead of demanding every suicide mission to be a success. If you want this to be an ASSASSIN'S creed game, stop charging into stuff head-first as a warrior... Around the 30-40% mark of the game everything becomes possible though, you can easily be as aggressive or as strategical as you would like. Being the walking god people seem to demand being in the game is certainly achievable WITH auto-scaling on.

    Ya know what, you’re not wrong. And reading this made me realize something today. Do some of you remember the whole Apple iPhone 4 fiasco many years ago with the phrase “you’re holding it wrong?”

    Years ago ago the iPhone 4 had a reception issue. People noticed by simply picking up the phone and trying to use it, it didn’t work properly. Calls would drop or not go through at all. There was a back and forth on forums, people swearing it’s broken, others agreeing with Steve Jobs comment that they were holding the phone the wrong way. The issue was hand placement and where you’re pinky finger ended up on the antenna lines on the sides of the phone. This conversation just reminded me exactly of that.

    You may have a workaround to this issue of level scaling. Make this build, put points here, get this gear. All of this doesn’t change the fact that the game has been altered and has a specific issue that tens of thousands of people have been complaining about for months. The game may be amazing with imagery, story, and quests, though the meat of the game is the gameplay, and that part, just like the most important part of the iPhone is the phone part working, just doesn’t.

    So no, we aren’t playing the game wrong. It’s the game that is wrong and needs to be fixed.
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  10. #1130
    Pottross's Avatar Member
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    So, during said iPhone 4 "fiasco", you gathered an army to conduct a raid on Apple HQ, and demanded Steve Jobs had to supply your militia with portable satellite dishes to improve reception... instead of adapting your pinky placement on the back of your phone? Is that how it went down?
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