View Poll Results: Should Ubisoft Quebec implement AC Origin's enemy level scaling: add it as an option?

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  • Yes

    530 88.78%
  • No

    67 11.22%

Thread: Forced enemy level scaling | Forums

  1. #1121
    IRCRomeo's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by longjohn119 Go to original post
    Ubisoft DID NOT make a mistake changing the system and tyhat is EASILY PROVEN by their sales totals ..... Origins sold twice as well as any previous AC title and Odyssey is on track to double the sales of Origins .......

    That's a 4 times increase in customer base, 4 times increase in revenue and a 4 times increase in profits in just 2 years for this franchise

    THAT is what is called SUCCESS and if you actually knew anything about business you'd realize Ubisoft is going in the right direction and despite all the annoying little bugs that will eventually get fixed this is the best Ubisoft game ever for the majority of their customers

    I've said this earlier... you cannot go by sales of Odyssey. People bought Odyssey expecting Origins 2.0, because Origins was a great game and is the base of Odyssey. I preordered Odyssey because I put 135 hours into Origins and throughly enjoyed it. And as you know, Odyssey is currently broken which was unknown to people who purchased the game at launch. Since you can't return opened software, there's nothing I can do except suck it up and realize I was scammed of $110.
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  2. #1122
    DreadGrrl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by IRCRomeo Go to original post
    I've said this earlier... you cannot go by sales of Odyssey. People bought Odyssey expecting Origins 2.0, because Origins was a great game and is the base of Odyssey. I preordered Odyssey because I put 135 hours into Origins and throughly enjoyed it. And as you know, Odyssey is currently broken which was unknown to people who purchased the game at launch. Since you can't return opened software, there's nothing I can do except suck it up and realize I was scammed of $110.
    Did you not do any reading up on Odyssey before you purchased it? I pre-ordered the Ultimate Edition a month before release, and the pre-release information I read clearly indicated that Odyssey had forced level scaling. The forced level scaling was not a secret.

    Hopefully, you’ll do your own due diligence in the future. You weren’t scammed. You were reckless.
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  3. #1123
    longjohn119's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by MoooGoesTheCow Go to original post
    The level scaling only works to scale up enemy level so from the start if you move to the right place you can meet lv 30 or 40 mercenary even at lv 10. The thing that prevent them from bullying you is that the reward probably is too small and the fame game too small too so they just ignore you, unless you kill someone right in front of them or do some other dumb similar things right in front of them.
    WRONG WRONG WRONG ...... Nearly everything is leveled up .... your loot drops from NPCs. your loot drops in chests ..... The resources you get looting and burning enemy stashes increase with level .... The number of pelts you get per animal increase, the number of pieces of wood per bundle increases .... In some cases the XP and loot you get from a side mission increases with level ...... The loot you get from ships increases ......

    10-15 years ago in my industry (Electronics design) and the computer industry there was a buzz word .... SCALABLE SYSTEMS ...... Very important at that time to the server industry because of the massive increase of databases and streaming technologies meant your system had to be able to keep scaling up ,,,,, That means every part of the system has to be able to scale up

    This is basically a simplified version of that basic Scaling concept ....... And you can't just remove scaling from a single piece without affecting and ruining the balance of the entire scalable system

    AUTO-SCALING CANNOT BE TURNED OFF WITHOUT A COMPLETE RE-WRITE OF THE ENTIRE GAME BASE BECAUSE IT ALL WORKS TOGETHER .... ANYONE who has ever worked with or designed scalable system will tell you this

    But what do I know I'm only a Senior Engineer with 25 years experience and Master's degree in Electrical Engineering .... WTF would I know about systems design
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  4. #1124
    AnimusLover's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by longjohn119 Go to original post
    The only thing that is redundant is your lack of basic math and logic skills ...... No matter the HARD EVIDENCE thrown at you you are going to refuse to believe any of it ...... You remind me of members of a certain American political party ..... You insist you are right no matter how many times you are proven to be wrong
    You do know that I'm against auto scaling being off don't you, you little twit?
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  5. #1125
    robertthebard's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by IRCRomeo Go to original post
    I've said this earlier... you cannot go by sales of Odyssey. People bought Odyssey expecting Origins 2.0, because Origins was a great game and is the base of Odyssey. I preordered Odyssey because I put 135 hours into Origins and throughly enjoyed it. And as you know, Odyssey is currently broken which was unknown to people who purchased the game at launch. Since you can't return opened software, there's nothing I can do except suck it up and realize I was scammed of $110.
    Except it's not broken. It works just fine, despite the hyperbole thrown around here. So you were scammed because you didn't do your research before you pre-ordered a game? Are you that careless with your money all the time, because I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'm trying to sell. Level scaling in Origins was a hugely popular feature, that was added months after release. Who could blame anyone for thinking it would be popular here, and frankly, despite, again, the hyperbole here, the internet has yet to explode with how bad Odyssey is. I'll let you in on a little secret: For years, I ignored the Mass Effect series because it looked like a space based 3rd person shooter. While it actually is that, sort of, it's a lot more than that too. However, the only reason I started the Mass Effect trilogy was because a great many people thought the ending of ME 3 broke the entire franchise, so much so that they were on Amazon marking positive reviews of ME 3 as spam. So, I got ME 1, and played it, then ME 2, because I liked what I saw from 1, and then ME 3 because I liked what I saw from 2, and despite the last 15 minutes or so of ME 3, the series was excellent. I have to say that the number of hours spent enjoying the ride far outweighed the last 15 minutes.

    That's the nature of video game franchise fanbases when they feel "betrayed" or "ripped off". There wouldn't be one long thread, there would be "level scaling is bad Tuesday". Where there could be an existing thread on the first page, but someone would be offended enough to start a new thread anyway. I've seen this happen, to lesser degrees than actually marking reviews on Amazon as spam, for years. It happened with Dragon Age 2, it happened with Inquisition, where we had "Warden Wednesday". Ironically, it happened with Dragon Age Origins too, with the "not a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate" thread epidemic. So while you go on with "a majority" or "many", I just nod and smile, because I've seen what it looks like when those statements are true. Hell, we don't have to go that far back, remember ME Andromeda? That was a situation where "a majority" and "many" actually applied. Nothing that I've seen here, or on YouTube, comes even remotely close to that level of vitriol about a game, deserved or otherwise. The aftermath of that is still being felt, and carried over into Anthem, and it's not even out yet.

    News Flash: We're not discussing flying a plane, where hundreds of lives are at stake, or even just a couple of lives. We're talking about a video game, and 20 hours into this game isn't even long enough for level scaling to really become anything like an issue, even on Nightmare. Based on the number of videos of people at 50 owning everything when 50 was the cap, I'm finding it harder and harder to buy into "a majority" or "many", and easier to buy into "a relatively small handful of vocal people".
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  6. #1126
    ProdiGurl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Odyssey is currently broken
    Sorry, this is just crap. It is NOT broken. If it's "broken", it happened by deciding to appease people complaining and giving them what they wanted post release.
    That's caused related problems that weren't there.
    Many if not most large scale games that are put out, need patches but this game is not broken. I'm playing it and it's my GOTY for 2 mos now and I'm still excited to play it.
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  7. #1127
    gilgamesh_2500's Avatar Junior Member
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    Originally Posted by longjohn119 Go to original post
    REALITY CHECK

    The game will actually get harder if you turn off auto-leveling and that's is EASILY PROVEN with simple logic .....

    You'll never get gear from NPCs or chest that you can use to upgrade your gear, and since you won't get as many resources breaking it down or selling it you'll never be able to afford to upgrade the gear you already have much less be able to afford upgrade one on your ship ...... I doubt you'd even make it as far as Athens before you were forced to just quit because you'd have to grind for hours on end just to level up 2 weapons and 5 pieces of gear

    If you are level 30 in a level 20 area all your gear drops are going to be 18-20 and upgrading them to your level would be impossible because every time you got close you have been bumped up a level and you'd have to grind even more resources and by the time you got remotely close you'd be bumped a level again and right back where you started, needing even more resources

    Frankly I think Ubisoft should turn it off just to shut you whiners the hell up after you see how damned broken the game will be .....
    Technically, that's true.
    But you forgot something: the developers chose the resource amounts needed for each upgrade, and they're just outrageous.
    In origins you didn't need so much resources, and you didn't even need to upgrade your gear as often as you do in odyssey.

    Level scaling is just one part of the problem. The other part is the huge resource amounts needed for every upgrade, and keep in mind that now you also have to upgrade your armour set parts and your ship. This is what caused the problem that you used as a justification for the auto level scaling, so that you would get enough resources.

    And you never get enough resources. I do a lot of side quests and sites and still struggle even to upgrade my main 3 weapons and ship.

    All of the above becomes even worse due to the other problem which is a serious one that I've already mentioned before: the lack of balance in damage.
    There is no logical reason why should a single hit from some regular soldier one level below you, or even a civilian who just picked up a sword, cause you more damage than a single hit from you would cause him.
    There is just no excuse for that.
    And that's why you need your gear upgraded to their max all the time, and then the ridiculous amounts of resources required come into play and make it all worse.

    I was trying to fight that farting boar (that's what it really is!) It killed me multiple times. Such a non sophisticated enemy that filled the whole area with gases that it farted and left you no where to hide. It simply had a really long health bar.
    Then I changed my strategy and took it down with the devastating red arrows in less than 10 seconds. Guess what? It wasn't fun either. Because the boss isn't sophisticated and doesn't really test your creativity.

    So all this lack of balance just cannot be ignored.
    This isn't simply auto level scaling.
    As I've already said in a previous post, no matter which level you are, go out and try to fight a couple of enemies at your level without using any skills. You will definitely feel how imbalanced the damage/health system is. (And at many cases there won't be a just couple of soldiers, but you would be surrounded by a bunch of soldiers at some fort because of some failed assassination or whatever). There is no reasonable and legitimate explanation for that lack of balance in damage. And I'm talking about regular soldiers, not even commanders.

    And even with bosses, there is no acceptable reason why I need 10 minutes if hitting a couple of these fighting school students at some quest, wearing no armour whatsoever, just to defeat them, while they can kill me with 3 hits or so. And they are just taking massive attacks from me, even using the massive attack combination.
    They are not sophisticated enemies, the developers could make them sophisticated by granting them the skill to avoid my hits and make the fight really challenging and fun. But taking all of my sword hits on their naked skin and barely losing any health?
    That's sort of lazy boss developing in my opinion. And it is true for most of the bosses in the game. Too bad.
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  8. #1128
    longjohn119's Avatar Member
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    For anyone who thinks this isn't a complex interconnected symbiotic system then I dare you to lay this all out on a spread sheet and make it work by coming up with the same numbers as Ubisoft did in their main and detailed stats

    Then turn off the auto-leveling and make it all work

    If you think the game is too hard then good luck with this challenge .......
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  9. #1129
    longjohn119's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by gilgamesh_2500 Go to original post
    Technically, that's true.
    But you forgot something: the developers chose the resource amounts needed for each upgrade, and they're just outrageous.
    In origins you didn't need so much resources, and you didn't even need to upgrade your gear as often as you do in odyssey.

    Level scaling is just one part of the problem. The other part is the huge resource amounts needed for every upgrade, and keep in mind that now you also have to upgrade your armour set parts and your ship. This is what caused the problem that you used as a justification for the auto level scaling, so that you would get enough resources.

    And you never get enough resources. I do a lot of side quests and sites and still struggle even to upgrade my main 3 weapons and ship.

    All of the above becomes even worse due to the other problem which is a serious one that I've already mentioned before: the lack of balance in damage.
    There is no logical reason why should a single hit from some regular soldier one level below you, or even a civilian who just picked up a sword, cause you more damage than a single hit from you would cause him.
    There is just no excuse for that.
    And that's why you need your gear upgraded to their max all the time, and then the ridiculous amounts of resources required come into play and make it all worse.

    I was trying to fight that farting boar (that's what it really is!) It killed me multiple times. Such a non sophisticated enemy that filled the whole area with gases that it farted and left you no where to hide. It simply had a really long health bar.
    Then I changed my strategy and took it down with the devastating red arrows in less than 10 seconds. Guess what? It wasn't fun either. Because the boss isn't sophisticated and doesn't really test your creativity.

    So all this lack of balance just cannot be ignored.
    This isn't simply auto level scaling.
    As I've already said in a previous post, no matter which level you are, go out and try to fight a couple of enemies at your level without using any skills. You will definitely feel how imbalanced the damage/health system is. (And at many cases there won't be a just couple of soldiers, but you would be surrounded by a bunch of soldiers at some fort because of some failed assassination or whatever). There is no reasonable and legitimate explanation for that lack of balance in damage. And I'm talking about regular soldiers, not even commanders.

    And even with bosses, there is no acceptable reason why I need 10 minutes if hitting a couple of these fighting school students at some quest, wearing no armour whatsoever, just to defeat them, while they can kill me with 3 hits or so. And they are just taking massive attacks from me, even using the massive attack combination.
    They are not sophisticated enemies, the developers could make them sophisticated by granting them the skill to avoid my hits and make the fight really challenging and fun. But taking all of my sword hits on their naked skin and barely losing any health?
    That's sort of lazy boss developing in my opinion. And it is true for most of the bosses in the game. Too bad.
    I took out that same boar with three devastating poison shots to the face ....... I never drew my melee weapon and he never got close enough for me to even hit him with it anyway ....... Fight smarter not harder ......
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  10. #1130
    Pottross's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by IRCRomeo Go to original post
    Sales mean nothing when countless people were tricked into buying the game thinking it's part of the AC franchise when it's just in name only. The fans, the diehards, the loyalists did not ask for this type of gameplay.

    I feel offended, and as if I was stolen from, to have the series ruined for me. I was so excited to get AC Odyssey on launch, and to invest 20 hours to realize how broken the game was, I put it away hoping the game would be fixed. Two months later and it still hasn't been fixed. If I could do a chargeback for buying the game I would, though it isn't the retailers fault Ubisoft made a mistake with altering the series.
    Excuse me, I should have known that facts would be unwelcome in this thread.

    So I'll go with my gut feelings from now on: The level scaling opposition in this conversation just demand to roflstomp the game as was usually the case with the first entries in the series. At the same time (again my gut feeling) they refuse to look into the mechanics this game has to offer. They seem to demand fights to be non-strategical frag-fests and when pulling the entire city/fort they complain that they get stopped by a broom-wielding civilian (not mentioning the 200 guards and 60 mercenaries). This is BS. You, the player, has a choice to pick fights that are actually winnable on your own skill level, instead of demanding every suicide mission to be a success. If you want this to be an ASSASSIN'S creed game, stop charging into stuff head-first as a warrior... Around the 30-40% mark of the game everything becomes possible though, you can easily be as aggressive or as strategical as you would like. Being the walking god people seem to demand being in the game is certainly achievable WITH auto-scaling on.
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