Thread: Clue for 11/07 DLC | Forums

  1. #71
    thequickmind's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by DanAmrich Go to original post
    Happy this came together. This was a result of fans asking the band politely through their social channels. Then the band's management reached out and we said yes please, let's do this. And here we are.
    Dan, I'm curious, and I understand if you can't talk about this, but is this first time something like this has happened, or have other bands approached you and asked to be in the game?
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  2. #72
    The_Working_Man's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by DanAmrich Go to original post
    Happy this came together. This was a result of fans asking the band politely through their social channels. Then the band's management reached out and we said yes please, let's do this. And here we are.
    That's ironic considering that UbiSoft has been trying to protect artists from Rocksmith fans all these years. Turns out maybe they'd like to hear some encouragement from their fans to help get their music into Rocksmith. Whoda thunk?
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  3. #73
    Originally Posted by The_Working_Man Go to original post
    That's ironic considering that UbiSoft has been trying to protect artists from Rocksmith fans all these years. Turns out maybe they'd like to hear some encouragement from their fans to help get their music into Rocksmith. Whoda thunk?
    The thing is, Ubi has good reason to want to control the process. Sure it can work out well, and a lot of that depends on the artist/their management.

    If it goes poorly, however, things can get difficult fast. If people start piling on and a band's social media starts getting cluttered with variations of "Why U no in RS?", that looks really bad.
    First off, that may not even be the right contact method to influence licensing, and flooding it is really unprofessional and inappropriate.
    Second, it's unlikely the fan knows the current state of any licensing negotiations that are happening between Ubi and the artist reps.
    The band could interpret it as "Ubi is unleashing the masses" with the intent to strongarm negotiations through alternate channels, which reflects poorly on Ubi/Rocksmith.
    People often make demands (since overzealous fans can quickly forget the "please" part of a request), or present things inappropriately.
    And let's say the band does get a bunch of requests -- if it's not irritating, they could see it as demand and use it as leverage and cause the licensing costs to go up.

    That said, there are lots of cool artists who are honored that people want to learn their stuff. And some are totally into direct fan interaction and would welcome being introduced to Rocksmith through a fan. But every situation is different, and the approach that Ubi is using is the safest and surest one.
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  4. #74
    Chad_Muska's Avatar Member
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    Great! I really hope you'll put this one into the pack:



    I find this one's even better than the also very great "Linoleum".
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  5. #75
    The_Working_Man's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by biscobid Go to original post
    The thing is, Ubi has good reason to want to control the process. Sure it can work out well, and a lot of that depends on the artist/their management.

    If it goes poorly, however, things can get difficult fast. If people start piling on and a band's social media starts getting cluttered with variations of "Why U no in RS?", that looks really bad.
    First off, that may not even be the right contact method to influence licensing, and flooding it is really unprofessional and inappropriate.
    Second, it's unlikely the fan knows the current state of any licensing negotiations that are happening between Ubi and the artist reps.
    The band could interpret it as "Ubi is unleashing the masses" with the intent to strongarm negotiations through alternate channels, which reflects poorly on Ubi/Rocksmith.
    People often make demands (since overzealous fans can quickly forget the "please" part of a request), or present things inappropriately.
    And let's say the band does get a bunch of requests -- if it's not irritating, they could see it as demand and use it as leverage and cause the licensing costs to go up.

    That said, there are lots of cool artists who are honored that people want to learn their stuff. And some are totally into direct fan interaction and would welcome being introduced to Rocksmith through a fan. But every situation is different, and the approach that Ubi is using is the safest and surest one.
    Moving past all the "what if" -ing, UbiSoft has controlled the information so that they maintain control of the process, in hopes of avoiding any negative outcomes for themselves. We now have an example where fans circumvented UbiSoft's control and also created a positive outcome (for Ubi, the band, and those fans of the band). RS users have been asking Ubi to share some info so that your "First off" and "Secondly" points could be avoided. My hope is that UbiSoft starts to realize that the users can help bring about positive outcomes in certain cases (for example, where the artist doesn't know what RS is or that there's a demand from their fans) and maybe shutting us completely out of the process isn't the best approach to take.
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  6. #76
    Yes! Bob and Ronnie and Mags would be killer.
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  7. #77
    I'm not saying fan-engagement-based influence hasn't, can't or won't work. Ubi can't stop anyone from doing it. I'm saying it's not the method of choice, Ubi has stated their position and advised against it, and it has a greater chance of either accomplishing nothing or causing more problems than it solves.

    Originally Posted by The_Working_Man Go to original post
    Moving past all the "what if" -ing, UbiSoft has controlled the information so that they maintain control of the process, in hopes of avoiding any negative outcomes for themselves.
    Since Ubi has the lawyers, the contracts, the bankroll, the statistics, the experience and are responsible for the long-term health of the franchise... they certainly do have a vested interest in controlling the process and avoiding negative outcomes for themselves -- which thereby benefits us.

    We now have an example where fans circumvented UbiSoft's control and also created a positive outcome (for Ubi, the band, and those fans of the band).
    Fortunately. This time. In this case. But, since Ubi is a business, I bet the band/their management showed interest and Ubi checked the request app, weighed the benefits and verified the available budget, and made a decision and finalized the offer based on that. It may have "informed the process" and changed the priority or order of release, but it didn't "circumvent UbiSoft's control." Ubi could have just as well seen the price as too high or the potential demand too low or not liked the terms of the offer or picked a reason out of thin air and said "no." And I doubt we'll ever know what, if any, DLC was bumped, cut or delayed because this one was approved. Without infinite budgets and person-hours of labor, something moved somewhere.

    RS users have been asking Ubi to share some info so that your "First off" and "Secondly" points could be avoided.
    But it's rare that those scenarios would arise and that any good would come of users jumping in. Ubi is unlikely to reveal what bands they are negotiating with (safe assumption: "all of them", as a combination of requests and internal discretion), and even less likely to mention which ones they're having "difficulties" with. They're not going to say "the bass player is a holdout -- go to his Twitter feed and ask that he agree to the deal!" or "we're having difficulty getting this band to respond to us -- somebody call their agent or hit their Facebook page!"

    Ubi has teams of people working all day, every day on engaging artists on their terms, via their preferred and approved methods in a professional, company-approved way. That has, demonstrably, worked the vast majority of times (or at least resulted in 1100+ DLC songs). It would be foolish, and maybe even detrimental, for them to endorse and encourage fans (well-intentioned as they may be) to act on their behalf.

    My hope is that UbiSoft starts to realize that the users can help bring about positive outcomes in certain cases (for example, where the artist doesn't know what RS is or that there's a demand from their fans) and maybe shutting us completely out of the process isn't the best approach to take.
    I'd expect there are at least a couple paragraphs in the engagement/offer letter from Ubi describing what RS is. I'd also expect that they have a grab-bag of talking points and elevator pitches they use during discussions to paint RS, the notetracking process and the users in the best possible light. They might even encourage the bands to survey their fanbase to gauge interest if there are any doubts.

    And maybe -- maybe -- there are some cases where fans stating their desires might tip the scales or trigger the artist to remember to follow up on "that Rocksmith thing." I'm sure Ubi is aware that fan-initiated efforts can have positive outcomes. But it is a minefield that Ubi has previously cautioned against. If Ubi opens the floodgates and sets the mob loose, they don't get to choose which fans participate and what they say, and there's more potential for downsides than upsides.

    The most effective input to the process is still the request app. Because it's used as an input to gauge interest and set priorities for Ubi-initiated negotiations, and would still be used as a reference even if a band shows up unsolicited.

    People are not being shut completely out of the process -- they're being told where they can be most effective, and advised where they should hold back because they can cause problems. I'm inclined to believe them. There's no conspiracy here.
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  8. #78
    Originally Posted by DanAmrich Go to original post
    Happy this came together. This was a result of fans asking the band politely through their social channels. Then the band's management reached out and we said yes please, let's do this. And here we are.
    That's interesting, because I've talked to several bands that expressed interest, but they usually come back with a "have their people talk to our people."

    For example, a European punk band, Pipes & Pints basically said that you could use their hit city by the sea in exchange for getting publicity. So I requested it via the app - but maybe there's another step that needs to be done to close the loop.

    I'll have to reach out to the guys from Pennywise again.
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