1. #1

    How do I deal with a Warden as Peacekeeper?

    When I play Peacekeeper I have some serious issues playing against a good Warden player, and I'm not sure how to beat them.

    I'll list the issues I have with Warden below.

    Crushing Counterstrike and Zone Attacks
    The crushing counterstrike / zone attack is simply too fast to react to. I can't dodge, block or parry this attack because by the time I see it I've already been hit. The majority of matches I have against high prestige Wardens is full of CC and Zone spam until I'm dead, and there's nothing I can do about it. Light attack? Block and CC / Zone. Heavy / Feint? Block and CC / Zone. Guard Break? CGB and CC / Zone. Try and Side-step stab? Block and CC / Zone. It's a guaranteed hit unless I get lucky and block from that direction before the warden even initiated the hit, and it shouldn't be this way. You might ask why I don't just hold my block in the direction of the CC? Well, they can also Zone from the other directions at the same speed, making it impossible to pre-empt my block.

    Wardens Vortex
    For those of you who don't know what Wardens Vortex is, visit the link below at the bottom of this post for a quick guide. Essentially, the Warden can lock you into a pattern of attacks and shoulder bashes and as peacekeeper it's incredibly hard to counter and get out of this death cycle. It goes like this:

    Shoulder Bash -> Light Attack -> Shoulder Bash -> Light Attack -> Shoulder Bash -> Light Attack

    You might be thinking "Get good scrub, you need to dodge the Shoulder Bash!". Well, an important thing to note is that the Warden can cancel his shoulder bash and initiate a Guard Break. For people not in the know, when you dodge you are vulnerable to Guard Break and can't Counter Guard Break. See where I'm going with this? This is what it looks like:

    Shoulder Bash -> Light Attack -> Shoulder Bash Cancel -> Guard Break -> Light Attack -> Shoulder Bash

    Okay, so as a peacekeeper I can't dodge (Warden will GB and carry on with the vortex) and I can't try to attack (Warden continues to stunlock me with Shoulder Bash). Wait, can't I side-step stab Warden? Surely that must be the answer!

    Well, no.

    Remember when the Warden was cancelling his shoulder bash? That frees him up to block or parry anything he likes, including the peacekeepers side-step stab, and can you guess what's coming after that? Have a look:

    Shoulder Bash -> Light Attack -> Shoulder Bash Cancel -> Block / Parry -> Shoulder Bash -> Light Attack

    So, the only three options I have all lead me to losing and Warden carrying on with his Vortex until either I'm dead or Warden is out of stamina.

    In conclusion, if you combine the incredibly fast CC / Zone Attack with the impossible to get out of Vortex, there's nothing a Peacekeeper can do except for run away or ALT + F4 and requeue. Now, this is just my experience and I'm not saying my logic is flawless. In fact, I'm really hoping someone can point out a simple way to deal with Wardens as Peacekeeper so I can go back to killing people with glee.

    Warden Vortex explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eunkmrm6Bds
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  2. #2
    teksuo1's Avatar Senior Member
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    as a pk (any assassins in fact), you can totally parry crushing-couterstrike (which is stupid ; a normal parry guarantees a hit but the crushing counter-strike can be parried.. )

    feints are your friend.

    lights from random sides if in doubt. (don't go hitting top if you can't deal with crushing-couterstrike.

    *the shoulder bash/vortex is pretty basic, either roll backwards(by losing focus) or take a guess at counter-breaking the guardbreak.
    *even just landing a light or any lunge while shoulder is charging will stop it.

    *watch out for the zone, (he's vulnerable after his zone, a bunch of frames where he can't do nothing.)
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by teksuo1 Go to original post
    as a pk (any assassins in fact), you can totally parry crushing-couterstrike (which is stupid ; a normal parry guarantees a hit but the crushing counter-strike can be parried.. )

    feints are your friend.

    lights from random sides if in doubt. (don't go hitting top if you can't deal with crushing-couterstrike.

    *the shoulder bash/vortex is pretty basic, either roll backwards(by losing focus) or take a guess at counter-breaking the guardbreak.
    *even just landing a light or any lunge while shoulder is charging will stop it.

    *watch out for the zone, (he's vulnerable after his zone, a bunch of frames where he can't do nothing.)
    Thanks for the reply.

    I find that CC is too fast for me to block, let alone parry. There isn't enough time for me to do anything. I don't have this problem with any other characters attacks.

    I try to use lights from random sides most of the time, but against a good Warden who blocks every single hit and follows it up with a very fast CC or Zone there's not much I can do.

    While rolling backwards does break the vortex, it also takes away a third of my stamina which is a huge problem, and it doesn't always work (trying to spam roll backwards and the Warden still GB's you because the game didn't register your back roll in time). If I try and play the guessing game I will always lose. I'll try and use a light attack and see if that breaks the Vortex, but a good Warden can just cancel his shield bash, block and get a free CC on me.

    His zone is almost the same speed as his CC, so it doesn't matter if he's vulnerable if I can't dodge block or parry his attack in the first place.
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  4. #4
    Light attacks pretty easily counter Warden shoulder barge. Also dodging backwards or sideways. It's a guessing game for him too, and if he tries to chain 3 together along with attacks, his stamina is pretty much burnt.

    It's funny, cause when you say dodge roll out of the big bad inescapable "vortex" (and thus escape it), people claim it's not a legit counter somehow. Yet when you dodge roll against any other class to counter something their doing (Valk sweep for example), it's legit. The hysteria over what is the Warden's mixup is kind of ridiculous.

    Warden is strong, no doubt. But PK, along with her being one of the top 2-3 classes and thus tough for everybody, is especially tough for him. It's a matchup that significantly favors the PK.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by suboptiml Go to original post
    Light attacks pretty easily counter Warden shoulder barge. Also dodging backwards or sideways. It's a guessing game for him too, and if he tries to chain 3 together along with attacks, his stamina is pretty much burnt.

    It's funny, cause when you say dodge roll out of the big bad inescapable "vortex" (and thus escape it), people claim it's not a legit counter somehow. Yet when you dodge roll against any other class to counter something their doing (Valk sweep for example), it's legit. The hysteria over what is the Warden's mixup is kind of ridiculous.

    Warden is strong, no doubt. But PK, along with her being one of the top 2-3 classes and thus tough for everybody, is especially tough for him. It's a matchup that significantly favors the PK.
    Dodging is countered by Warden cancelling his shoulder bash and Guard Breaking instead, and because you can't CGB when you're dodging you are guaranteed to be grabbed.

    Light attacking can also be countered by the Warden in his vortex.
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by ArlianDeBias Go to original post
    Dodging is countered by Warden cancelling his shoulder bash and Guard Breaking instead, and because you can't CGB when you're dodging you are guaranteed to be grabbed.

    Light attacking can also be countered by the Warden in his vortex.
    Again, fast light attacks (which the PK has in excess) work very well in deflating the shoulder barge. Dodging sideways is a guessing game for both. Dodging backwards will clear you most of the time, unless you react slowly.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by suboptiml Go to original post
    Again, fast light attacks (which the PK has in excess) work very well in deflating the shoulder barge. Dodging sideways is a guessing game for both. Dodging backwards will clear you most of the time, unless you react slowly.
    I'm going to practice and test light attacks against the Shoulder Bash when up against high prestige Wardens, if it works I'll be happy (although I don't have my hopes up).

    Dodging backwards will still get you grabbed if they initiated the GB before you dashed, but I'll see if dodging backwards at the earliest moment makes a difference.
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  8. #8
    This was an entertaining read as the majority of his his claims could be flipped back on the PK, namely ultra fast zone attacks, and lights that are difficult to react to. But anyways, anytime he initiates a vortex, light attack him, it will cancel the vortex. His zone attack is unsafe on block, meaning if you can block it, you get a free GB on him.
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  9. #9
    TCTF_SWAT's Avatar Senior Member
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    Why not just roll out?
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  10. #10
    Gray360UK's Avatar Senior Member
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    This Warden you are fighting must be some kind of advanced cyborg from the future to react to everything in your arsenal with extreme precision and no human error like this.
    Fight another Warden?
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