1. #1
    pilas-'s Avatar Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    17
    Hello everyone
    Will the 109 elevator heaviness be revised in the upcoming patch?
    S!

    Pilas
    Share this post

  2. #2
    pilas-'s Avatar Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    17
    Hello everyone
    Will the 109 elevator heaviness be revised in the upcoming patch?
    S!

    Pilas
    Share this post

  3. #3
    LeadSpitter_'s Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    4,103
    they can out turn almost all aircraft by just trottling back, and combat flaps.

    f2 f4 g2 g6 with 50-75 fuel no 108 cannon in the g6 can seem to outturn the p40 lagg3 mig la5 7 hurricane p51 and spitfire so easily just by trottling back. Even tho all the sustained turn rates are spot on to the test charts. The max turn ability seems strange bleeding E and being able to accelarate quickly is why the 109s are able to do this.

    I dont know how fast a 109 suppost to be able to decelerate to be honest but it seems wrong. Noway a 3 bladed prop can slow an aircraft down that much just by trottling back.

    If we had carriers you can succesfully land a 109 on a carrier deck no problem without any hooks the way it can trottle back, its short landing ability coming to a full stop so quickly. Maybe they will address the 109s trottle back ability. As you know online flying the 109 or against it got a plane on your tail trottle back and you got the kill. Every person uses this who flies the 109 including myself. Go fly online and take 10 tracks and see my point

    Ask any good 109 pilot the trottle back turn ability is what makes them do so well and they have the ability to out turn most aircraft. Except when carring the 108cannon and 100 fuel.

    this is why the vvs are doing so horable in VEF becuase of the 109s super deceleration ability and accelaration. The la7s controlls lock up much worse then the 109s elevator at speed but the la7 cant trottle back so fast the 109 can which is why its beating it in turnfights below 5000m

    The 109 is an ultimate turn fighter in this sim downlow and up high, it actually seems to do better as a turn fighter then a bnzing aircraft in this sim.

    I feel 190s should have more elevator effectiveness just by design. Its elevator is almost identical to the p51 small long thin narrow elevator which was good for high speed manuverability and low speed handling.

    Something is seriously wrong with the p47s drag you bleed off 990+kmph to 460kmph from a 90 degree straight down dive gradualy recovering to 15 degrees with nose nose slightly pitched down with trim. Using full power 110 trottle wep 100 pitch.

    If you use 0 pitch which is producing no trust your able to maintain the higher speed longer and not bleed it off so quicky. CEM is very strange in this sim.

    you can basically tell an aircraft flight characteristics by weight, wing lift, aileron, elevator and rudder size.

    large wide ailerons and C elevator design offered great low speed handling but high speed they reduced significantly.



    [This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Thu July 08 2004 at 09:55 AM.]
    Share this post

  4. #4
    Hi,

    Aye....I've never flown a 109 IRL but it sure has a heavy elevator for a BnZ beast and it seems to have become worse as time has gone on.

    P51 and 190 have good elevator response (both having that unusual flop effect, easily felt with FFB) but 109 just keeps it's nose down.

    Function of design/cockpit tightness or porked?

    Cheers,
    Norris

    ================================================== ==========

    : Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
    http://cabinessence.cream.org/

    : More irreverence :
    http://www.tvgohome.com/

    : You've seen them... :
    www.chavscum.co.uk
    Share this post

  5. #5
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
    they can out turn almost all aircraft by just trottling back, and combat flaps.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    That is not the question. The question is wheter they will correct the 109`s high speed elevator response, which is gives ~50% worser turn rates at high speeds than historically should be. I guess everyone here seen the thread where this was shown very well, and I think 98% of the Allied-fans are convinced as well - save those few die hard types.

    So not that I am saying you should outturn the opposition also at high speeds with the 109s, but you should fare much, much better than with it in (high speed) turning than currently - it`s a rightful question wheter this will be fixed. After all, being 50% worser is a HUGE disadvantage.



    "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
    - Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

    "One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
    - Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945
    Share this post

  6. #6
    Stigler's right - you want to get away from a 109 if he's behind your Mustang? Put it in a steep dive, pick-up speed and then yank back. You may black out a bit, but, the 109s can't follow - no way, no how. You'll be way up above them in no time. Then simply roll your plane and you'll come out above and behind him. Now you control the fight.

    I have no idea if this is accurate but, that's the way it is in the game.
    Share this post

  7. #7
    now i seldom fly 109 because i cannot do BZ in it .in this game its a pure crapy turn fighter.
    Share this post

  8. #8
    pilas-'s Avatar Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    17
    Thx for the really nice tips leadspitter, S!, but the question was really about 109 elevator response at high airspeeds. It seems a bit exagerated the compression efect on the elevator.

    S! All
    Share this post

  9. #9
    S!

    The elevator isuue on Bf109 is odd, but I've had to learn to live with it. It will never change no matter what, any other plane than Bf109 and P38 will enjoy the EZFlight(tm) FM

    About reducing throttle in turns. After talking to some Finnish vets about it became clearer. Ky¶sti Karhila, with over 30 kills on his credit, said that he throttled back in his Bf109 to tighten the turning. He said that when using full power of the DB605A-1 the plane just pulled itseld ahead so strongly thuis reducing turn. Flaps were NOT used, too slow and risky according to this gent.

    IMO the FM is stretched to it's limits and we will be sufffering of the anomalies until BoB comes out with it's new FM engine. Before that we have to take what the developer gives, sad but true.

    ---------------------------

    Flanker
    1.Lentue p¤¤llikk¶ / TO
    Lentolaivue 34

    "Let Chaos entvine on defenseless soil!"
    ~Dimmu Borgir~
    Share this post

  10. #10
    BfHeFwMe's Avatar Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,224
    Don't know how many times I've got to say it, but your all still barking up the wrong tree. It needs to get the movable stab modeled that it historically had. There's a reason why all of the heaviest airlifter types in the world have both movable tail stabs along with their regular elevator trim.

    Trim via an elevator tab compared to a moveable stab is not the same, neither are all it's effects. There's a reason why they stuck with the movable stabs over tab in many of the later designs.

    Guess which one has better economomy and flight efficiency, allows greater center of gravity control for hauling massive weights, and has more overall pitch setting control and without inflicting any heavy control forces from the elevator itself as a fully trimmed tab will do.
    Share this post

Page 1 of 4 123 ... Last ►►