Thread: Letís talk about Skills | Forums

  1. #81
    First, I would like to thank you for all the effort you guys are putting to bring back this game alive. but I think the skills issue will be resolved only when you relate them into classes, or make the skills have requirements, similar to the weapons talents, example, if you have high Electronics you do unlock a certain tree of skills, if you have certain amount of Stamina you do unlock a different tree of skills, and so on .. make the skills build focused
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  2. #82

    Pretty much all skills post 30 and level 30 in a nutshell

    Pulse: tactical scanner
    100% one is always needed for people that do average dmg or people that do massive dmg to do even more to counter huge armour pools and health basically a staple.

    Pulse: Recon
    pretty much completely useless due to the fact the pulse has to hit an enemy so the effect actually last more than 1 sec before is disappears but even still i find this skill doesn't work as described at all.

    Pulse: Scrambler
    Pretty much the only alternative from tac scan really useful in the DZ and Clear Sky only outside of that don't really see much use due to tactical scanner just being flat better.

    First Aid: Defib
    Really useful when playing with randoms or very weak toughness people but bugs tend to be if someone even touches the revive key when its deployed it cancels it out completely rendering defib a wasted use or just doesn't actually work at all sometimes or the classic bug of firing through the floor but is still good when paired with battle buddy.

    First Aid: Overdose
    Just is the best heal you can have on the team really easy over heals even with fairly low skill power also the obvious purge effect always good no matter what your running.

    First Aid: Booster Shot
    This one is a little hit and miss tbh it can be really good when you use vigorous chest piece and it still somewhat useful without it as well but with Pulse and smart cover it seems overkill to even run it unless your really don't trust your team

    Support Station: Life support
    This one is very situational very good when solo levelling but not that amazing in team play due to smart cover always being up really I always find myself running ammo cache way more no matter where i am due to range being short and revive time being too slow the person is usually dead before they get up perhaps making it deny a down or even revive quicker would make this used a lot more in end game and early.

    Support Station: Immunizer
    Used quite often on reclaimer's mainly due to the better healing or on a dps due to nothing else to bring but only really used in Incursion due to massive dmg from fire and shock and disrupt not having one is too much of a risk of getting wiped even if you have smart cover sometimes depending on your team.

    Support Station: Ammo Cache
    Everyone favourite really skill recharge free ammo whats not to love especially if its the reclaimer user running it for the group it is the best one out of them hands down because it can be used anywhere and nobody will complain due to what it does for the team making it essential in all Incursions or even in DZ but never over an immunizer ofc.

    Sticky Bomb: BFB
    Only good while levelling up its effectiveness you'll notice drops as soon as you get into challenging content and feel like your through an pretty firework at people as for its DZ use since its nerfed you rarely kill people with it anymore which is good but was really the only reason it was still used in my opinion.

    Sticky Bomb: Flash Bang
    The best out of them all for PVP/PVE its great anywhere you go really with the exception of one bug with it breaking smart cover at the worst possible time an wiping your team but if used correctly its a life saver but on the flip side just rocking a max smart cover and pulse pretty much wreaks any threat that could be of any danger really but its still great the way it is.

    Sticky Bomb: Proximity Fuse
    This is the worst of them all tbh is has nothing really going for it like all sticky bombs it can be hacked it doesn't do enough dmg to justify take the slot it uses over e.g support station, smart cover, pulse, first aid other than that was fun when people tunnel visioned you in the DZ and walked into it and died but it so obvious to see with the giant icon giving it away unless the guy chasing is ultra tilted at that point i feel this mod should be removed and replace with something else or just buffed heavily with tweak of how it behaves and change that passive on stick bomb altogether it does nothing for it reduces light produce and noise or something how about giving it infinite deploy time seeming as one of the mods is a mine. -_-

    Turret:Active sonar
    Everyone can relate first time there ever used turret they was like wow this is awesome but then a like 10-18 levels later you was like hey pulse is pretty cool or just any but this skill period as you realised it really bad due to the lack of dmg lack of health lack of duration and don't say use the duration extender talent because come on be real here they turret isn't going to live long at all unless your on normal and maybe hard difficulty. As for all variants of this skill they either need to be drastically buffed and un-hackable or completely changed into something like a deploy-able turret emplacement instead to even become even somewhat viable in this game current setting if not this will be forever an ability you use as a joke nothing more with the exception ofc Zapper which ill touch on further down.

    Turret: Dragonbreath
    Ok pretty simple not used due to dmg 2.range is too short proc doesnt last very long at all and finally 4. shock turret is better in every way possible.
    Turret: Zapper
    Hands down the only reason you see turrets used but even still on rare occasions due to even still its unreliability compared to through a CC nade yourself or using a flash bang sticky bomb but still its really good paired with the shock talent but still has the problem of all augments of the turrets of really low health and being hackable.

    Seeker Mine :Airburst
    Seeker mine in general was really looking forward to using it but was really disappointing with how bad it was E.g you deploy it is rolls along and gets shot (dead) its done that it enjoy your cooldown as for Airburst its self same problem fire from skills have a very low duration barely making them worth the ability slot compared to any of the other skills in the game making seeker mine one of the fun but useless skill of the game when your there pretending its a pet following you and as for its passive which should have been already on the seeker mine to begin with just further makes if a terrible skill to use at low level and only just usable at high level play.

    Seeker Mine: Gas Charge
    The best of them all period most of the time it doesn't instantly die due to its reduced threat of doing no dmg and is better than sticky bomb flash bang due to it not being able to break smart cover see this quite often for these reason mainly reliable source of CC when a reclaimer isn't present or a flash bang user.

    Seeker Mine: Cluster
    Not even going to go into detail all of what is said for Airburst and explosives in general it just sucks period used it countless times preetty much knocked NPC / layers for like 1 sec and that's it oh and tickles them as well.

    Ballistic Shield: Reactive Targeting
    Ok so shields as most of you know are quite fun in terms of making a squishy tanky assuming they have dmg resilience rolls on gear or high skill power very good for levelling but due to its massive bugs it has E.g going invisible but still blocking shots breaking and not being reactivate-able and rare cases it just not blocking shots at all if all these bugs were fixed this skill would be used more often than people think but it does need some love in the health department because running one in high level content just gets melted through like butter to a hot pan rendering it another skill you use for low level stuff you can just solo with a pistol.

    Ballistic Shield: Assault Shield
    To be fair the stats of this should have been what the reactive targeting got or the same as due to its obvious aggressive play style its striving for buts even with 55k skill power and maybe 1 or 2 dmg resilience rolls on gear its still nearly 50% behind reactive targeting making it really weak for the go in with a pistol play style its going for.

    Ballistic Shield: Kinetic Breaker
    This has to be the worst of them all tbh just because your using this skill so your health doesn't take dmg and with the quote Kinetic Breaker its weaker than reactive targeting at all of the stats making you think why would i use this when i can give pulses to my team and be tougher in general compared to this making this augment the least used by me and probably by others as well.

    Smart Cover: Trapper
    First off we all know that smart cover is a must have at high level play so going off this what trapper give your team 75% dmg mit and 50% dmg buff when maxed and here is the kicker reduces dmg of enemies using the cover the buff is on ok people are look at this like wow this should be pretty good wrong that dmg reduction is basically nothing it not a trap for your enemy unless its DZ its a trap for you because you could be using recharger or concealment which are far better as a whole compared to what this gives you. And ofc we all know about the Flash bang breaking all smart covers which an obvious downside but people rarely fire it near smart cover anyway

    Smart Cover: Recharger
    Right personally i don't like running this one due to its reduced duration time of 20s compared to the other's which have 30s which is fair seeming as its off cooldown really quickly so nothing wrong there as its gives cdr to anyone on it at as well so your supporting passively as well so all is good with this skill.

    Smart Cover: Concealment
    This one is my favourite due to it bring a pulse hiding you in the DZ and still giving you the suitability of the rest of them obviously a pulse it going to be better than it hands down but it being there even it the pulse is down for 5-10s and ofc new enemy's coming into play as well which has always been a problem with pulse in general makes a difference as this is skills is usually only down for like 2s i find that its versatility in what it bring far outsets the others in my opinion.

    Mobile Cover: Extension
    Sigh i wanted this skill to be useful end game but its just way to weak considering the amount of dmg all npc's do in this game rendering this only barely usable in the current state of the game this need some serious love as do all of the variants do making them massively stronger and perhaps an alternative to smart cover in most scenarios.

    Mobile Cover: Blast Shield
    This is the worst of them all its state are too weak its bonuses it does give are not even worth taking over a maxed smart cover due to even that blast resist barely doing anything for you ever and as for it blowing up when its destroyed tell me who in the game will be anywhere near that unless you suicide in to make it happen be real here this should never have been made period.

    Mobile Cover: Countermeasures
    This one is actually quite good when it works which is rare in my experience i did it in the DZ a few times hiding on it sniping players with ones shot M44's which was funny but outside of the DZ it suffers the main problems all the others do they are too weak and even though your hidden it naturally draws in all the agro of npc's because you deployed it despite rest of your team on a smart cover closer than you are shooting at them with proper tweaks this could become a useful skill for squishy sniper builds.

    Signature Skills

    As for tactical link and survivor link i see nothing wrong with them to be perfectly honest yes they are annoying sometimes in the DZ or when they randomly not work and your stuck with a long cooldown unless you have max skill power only one to complain about is recovery let me explain why lets start with when you use it when people are low it barely heals even with massive amounts of skill power also the healing duration is so short as well the only good think going for it is long range reviving when your team runs in a get wreaked and you get them all back up but even then they tend to get back only 1-2 health segments with around 55k skill power it does nothing to it at all despite being a heal this one needs to work on it to make it more viable in DZ and PVE content to try and stop the bang wagen of use survivor link or die basically.

    Hope you enjoy the read whoever actually reeds this took me sometime to type this all up so hope you likes it and a hope Massive reflect on this feed back and makes some well needed changes to abilities / talents as well hopefully. Also massive loving the work your putting in now communicating with the community to try and get this games really bad start behind people and back to look into the future potential of this game.
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  3. #83
    When am solo or in a squad i always use scrambler pulse it's a "must" have ability helps me survive a lot ,and also of course the first aid overdose,can't survive much without it,but i really don't like about the smart cover how much it's unbalanced in PvP,And i would like to see other abilites used in the end game like seeker mine, Other turret mod rather than always zapper,and of course the ballistic shield ability got some bugs( didn't use it much)and the mobile cover would be nice to be used but it can be out maneuvered easily,and i would like to mention how the sticky bomb is used in PvP as you know and how much it takes the skill and the fun from the game,also i have noticed in rare cases that if one of my team mates actives survival link and we are close to him,it doesn't apply to us ,And finally the recovery link has some kind of a delay issue which makes the ability somewhat useless. and thanks
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  4. #84
    Ubi_Yannick's Avatar Senior Community Developer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    MalmŲ, Sweden
    Hey guys,

    I’ve seen some of you comment on the fact that the survey does a poor job at highlighting the “why”. This is true. Our plan is to first see what your perception is, with the current state the game is in.
    With the results we’re getting in this survey, we’ll start another one to go more in depth on specific skills and ask you why you use them or don’t use them so much.

    Thanks for your answers by the way, your support is amazing!

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  5. #85
    Hugo-FOU's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Originally Posted by Ubi_Yannick Go to original post
    Hey guys,

    I’ve seen some of you comment on the fact that the survey does a poor job at highlighting the “why”. This is true. Our plan is to first see what your perception is, with the current state the game is in.
    With the results we’re getting in this survey, we’ll start another one to go more in depth on specific skills and ask you why you use them or don’t use them so much.

    Thanks for your answers by the way, your support is amazing!

    Love the way you guys are going about this. Great work.
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  6. #86
    joelsantos24's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    I think it's a great idea to re-evaluate the skills and the way they're used in the game, and possibly even bring a couple new skills into the mix. Self-heal is the greatest priority, particularly in the current context of the game. Some people use the booster shot but most (myself included) end up choosing the overdose. I believe they're all useful, but it mostly depends on personal choice.

    Other skills are indeed useful but it's punch depends mostly on the existence of a Tactician in the team, such as smart cover. The smart cover and it's variants are all important, especially in a PvP context. The ballistic shield, however, seems to be a rather specific choice and I seldom see anyone using it, except during the time we were leveling up in the story. Personally, I never used it, nor have I ever considered it a choice, actually.

    The seeker mine is my favorite skill of the game. I do admit it should be more powerful, especially considering the health-pool of the NPC's at this moment. Even so, it's an amazing skill, especially to push back rushers and keep enemies contained or controlled. The pulse is on the same level as the self-heal, both in terms of importance and relevance. It's another fundamental tool, to have a perception of how many enemies are around you and where they are exactly. The conceal option is great as a stealth measure to avoid detection from rogue scans, and the damage option grants an amazing amount of critical hit chance and damage to our teammates, especially if our skill power is significant. The pulse is another of my favorite skills, an absolute priority in every team.

    Anyway, as a prominent skill user myself, I do value all of them, probable except the ballistic shield. On the other hand, I'd definitely like to see the seeker mine damage output increased.

    Originally Posted by Hugo-FOU Go to original post
    Love the way you guys are going about this. Great work.
    Yeah, it's amazing, no doubt. No other production company does this, not that I remember, anyway. I love the game, and this effort to improve it, is giving me even more reasons to love it. Great job, guys!
     1 people found this helpful
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  7. #87

    Skills to keep the enemy on distance are needed

    Thanks for the option to show you which skills we mostly use. As it already has been said, there are some skills that are either too situational or buggy to be used regularly
    I want to add another point (maybe I should rather do a new thread for this)

    Skills to keep the enemy on distance are needed (Defences and time to get killed)

    There are weapons that are strong in close combat (PVP: shotguns, SMGs; NPCs: Rushers, shotguns, melee)
    It wouldn't help to nerf the damage, but close combat weapons should be usable in situation they are made for.

    There need to be skills that are able to keep the enemy on distance that are available to everyone. (So gear or weapon talents wouldn't help)
    That's probably not the only solution because in the DZ there are still many CQB areas and fighting in a room doesn't allow the distance.
    But instead of just trying to counter the high damage with high armor / damage mitigation it should also help to slow and stun the enemy with skills.
    Skills can't be placed fast enough as a block so mostly it will be just heals and resistance boosts used probably.
    Skills to blind/stun should not be too strong but easy to aim on mid range or fast to deploy and do the rest automatically like the seeker mine.

    a) Active defences
    So active defences are limited to the Seeker Mine (Gas, Airburst) currently.

    b) Slower active defences
    The slower active defences are Sticky Bomb (Flashbang, BFB) and Turret (Dragonbreath, Zapper) which need preperation time.

    c) Passive defences
    Passive defences are Ballistic Shield, Smart cover, heals. While faster and easier to use in PVP Smart cover and heals are the only ones left, since the Ballistic Shield is not working currently.

    The fast deploy function of skills is important as you will have situations where you quickly have to react to the enemy or run for you life.
    In missions you played enough to know what's coming, you can be prepared to place traps and ready your grenade but this won't work in PVP and shouldn't be a valid option to be considered. Not even the strong skills are preferred but also the ones that are fast and simple to use
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  8. #88
    luc122c's Avatar Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Blackpool, UK
    When looking through the results, I think it is important for you guys to think about the proportions of users filling out the form.

    Most of the people filling out the form will be frustrated endgame players who have many hours playtime, love TD but hate the bugs and balancing. These people will have tried many of the skills and found that the only feasible way for them to efficiently play endgame content is to use the skills that buff them the most, ie Smart Cover, Pulse etc.

    Some users will be PVE focused, some will be PVP focused and will in turn desire a different set of skills. Also, depending on people's build style, they will use a different set of skills; for example I just cannot run without First Aid, I don't have enough Toughness, however Tankicians or just well rolled players can afford to run something else in that slot.

    Some users will be 0-30 players, who are either trying out the skills or can make use of skills that just don't make sense in the endgame. Take the Sticky Bomb: Proximity Fuse for example, I don't think i've ever come across it in the endgame, however I do see it get used occasionally in 0-30 being used to clear groups of enemies as soon as they spawn, becasue a sticky bomb can take them out in one hit at lower levels.

    I'm sure I've missed some groups of players, but what I'm trying to say is, please don't solely look at the skills from an endgame perspective. Yes, endgame users are frustrated that they are narrowed down to just three or four skills that really do anything, however the other skills do get used, just the people who use them may not be filling out the form.
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  9. #89
    Pretty much what Pvt_Terrence (Post #20) and PILL-DEATH (Post #82) said. Not much to add there. Interesting is how during leveling up the turret went from a solo players best friend to useless. I think this skill protrays very well how the game got more and more inbalanced while you progress.

    I use most of the skills situational, but of course smart cover, pulse and overheal have to be in the team. If not I am the one running them, someone else has to.

    Useless skills in the endgame are:

    mobile cover because there are usually enough places to take cover and where you can place a smart cover which is way stronger
    turret and seeker mine (exception for shock turret in pvp) they get destroyed by the NPCs way to easily and hacking of them has ruined their use totally
    shield as it is totally bugged and you can't really draw aggro in this game so your teammates could take the damage or switch position.
    sticky bomb other than flash bang sticky bomb, which is often also a risk to use in pve due to it being destroyed easily by flashbangs, the others have totally no use except for easy griefing on underequipped players in pvp as for pve they don't do relevant damage and/or can even be hacked.

    For the signature skills, they all find their usage. The recovery link should get a bit more powerful and eventually even revive dead players, but other than that they all find it's use within the game with survivor being the strongest naturally as we're lacking tank mechanics and damage reduction is the top most prioritiy in this game. Usually we're running 2 survivor, 1 tactical and one recovery link in the team. The delay of skills or them not even being activated is a general problem and especially annoying with healing and damage reduction skills, because often you want to pop them when you want to save your a**. But that's not a reason for me not to use them, yet it should be fixed asap.
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  10. #90
    This was quite a hard survey to complete. Reason being, is because I have multiple builds that require the use of multiple skills.

    Take my tactician for example. When solo and the only tactician in the team I use recharger smartcover, tactile pulse and recovery link. When I'm with a fellow tactician I use either overdose or booster shot depending on the content difficulty, either recharger smartcover or pulse and either recovery link or tactile link. When in underground with sickness on I use again recovery link, immuniser box and pulse with friends as I know one can cover smartcover. Or smartcover and immuniser and recovery link.

    Solid sentry is overdose, gas seeker mines and recovery link or survival link.

    Farming sentry is ovedose, immuniser/gas seeker mines and critical save.

    Final measure is overheal, shock turret and recovery link

    The reason I don't use the other seeker mines is because they destroy smartcover.
    The reason I don't use sticky bombs is because they destroy Smart Cover.
    The reason I use overdoes, recharger smartcover, tactical pulse, critical save is because the NPC's are loaded full of health and armour and require a hell of a bot of fire power to get them down.

    I would love to be able to do a seeker mine build. They are my little Darlings. They talk to me and I talk back. Sometimes they are disobedient and won't go chase the bad man but I love them none the less. I desperately desperately want to make a high skill power seeker mine build. And for the seeker mines to scale with skill power. I would love to create a mass inferno end engulf NPC's in flames or epic proportions with devastating effects to NPC's and players as the like.

    I think skills, all skills damage should skale depending on your skill power. No way on earth should a 15k skill power players sticky bomb do anything to me other than make me flinch and roll my eyes. I should then with 45k skills use exactly the same thing on him and show him what a stickybomb feels like.

    Turrets need to cause crowd control and not just something the NpCs run towards or past just it become a one footed stomping and gone.

    With a set amount of skills I should be able to hack turrets and seeker mines just like the NPC's do. Who created the technology? Was it the LMB or the JTF who then gave it to the Firstwave Agents. So why is it our technology is stronger than the ones our Task Force created. It doesn't make sence.

    When this game gets reworked i would then look at using other smartcovers, others pulses to get an unfair advantage. To reach the further deapths of the playable area. But for now its about staying alive and causing as much damage as possible with the skills that we have. I bet everyone uses the same skills. It's the only way to survivor. Reduce the NPC health and stagger the skills power based on skill power then you will see a different usage of skills. Those things combined will help the variance of builds within a particular build.
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