1. #1
    Mr Maddox & 1C crew,

    Can we please have historically accurate DB605DC and DB605ASC as appropriate in Bf 109G-10, Bf 109G-14, and BF 109K-4 ??

    DB605DC @ 2000hp take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude for:

    - Bf 109G-10
    - Bf 109K-4

    DB605ASC @ 2000hp take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude for:

    - Bf 109G-14

    These could be added to the current planeset in a similar way to the suggested increased boost Bf 109F-4 1942 Bf 109G-2 1943 and the MW-50 Bf 109G-6/U2 1944 as:

    1. Bf 109G-10 1945 or Bf 109G-10/DC 1945
    2. Bf 109G-14 1945 or Bf 109G-14/ASC 1945
    3. Bf 109K-4 1945 or Bf 109K-4/DC 1945

    Any other suggestions ?

    Thank you,

    JagdMailer
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  2. #2
    Mr Maddox & 1C crew,

    Can we please have historically accurate DB605DC and DB605ASC as appropriate in Bf 109G-10, Bf 109G-14, and BF 109K-4 ??

    DB605DC @ 2000hp take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude for:

    - Bf 109G-10
    - Bf 109K-4

    DB605ASC @ 2000hp take-off & 1800hp at rated altitude for:

    - Bf 109G-14

    These could be added to the current planeset in a similar way to the suggested increased boost Bf 109F-4 1942 Bf 109G-2 1943 and the MW-50 Bf 109G-6/U2 1944 as:

    1. Bf 109G-10 1945 or Bf 109G-10/DC 1945
    2. Bf 109G-14 1945 or Bf 109G-14/ASC 1945
    3. Bf 109K-4 1945 or Bf 109K-4/DC 1945

    Any other suggestions ?

    Thank you,

    JagdMailer
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  3. #3
    "Any other suggestions ?"

    Can I have my K-10 with the two-staged version of the DC at 2.3ata, and the MK 103mot? And don`t forget the 4-bladed toothpick prop either... did I forgot about aileron Flettner tabs (well the superb HammerD K4 skin has them already)?

    Gee, if the K-4 is considered scary now, what would THAT be?

    Seriously speaking, I would put up if Oleg would :

    - correct the SL speed for the K-4, ie. it`s 580 km/h instead of 607 km/h (other altitudes are correct)
    - wouldn`t forget to correct the WEP time bug
    - and finally get rid of those skeleton-in-the-cupboard extra struts of the Erla canopy`s higher front and higher sides, that were left in from the old canopy when they modified it! With those the Erla gives worser view sometimes than the old 3-piece canopy...

    As for the G-10 and G-14, we actually have those in all but name, ie. G-6/AS is actually a G-14/ASC, and G-10 behaves very much like as with 2000PS, too...




    "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
    - Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

    "One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
    - Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945
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  4. #4
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
    "Any other suggestions ?"

    Can I have my K-10 with the two-staged version of the DC at 2.3ata, and the MK 103mot? And don`t forget the 4-bladed toothpick prop either... did I forgot about aileron Flettner tabs (well the superb HammerD K4 skin has them already)?

    Gee, if the K-4 is considered scary now, what would THAT be?

    Seriously speaking, I would put up if Oleg would :

    - correct the SL speed for the K-4, ie. it`s 580 km/h instead of 607 km/h (other altitudes are correct)
    - wouldn`t forget to correct the WEP time bug
    - and finally get rid of those skeleton-in-the-cupboard extra struts of the Erla canopy`s higher front and higher sides, that were left in from the old canopy when they modified it! With those the Erla gives worser view sometimes than the old 3-piece canopy...

    As for the G-10 and G-14, we actually have those in all but name, ie. G-6/AS is actually a G-14/ASC, and G-10 behaves very much like as with 2000PS, too...


    http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim...d%20tigerB.jpg

    "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
    - Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

    "One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
    - Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    All joking aside, those Bf 109G & K with DB605DC and DB605ASC were available although late, unlike some others that were limited to prototypes or one-offs.

    As such, they belong in this sim and I would personally like to see them in the game for the same reason as we need the Bf 109F-4 1942 and Bf 109G-2 1943.

    Cheers,

    JagdMailer
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  5. #5
    Joking put aside, at least the two stage supercharged DB 605Ds seem to be a reality, ie. the JaPo 109K book mentions that they appeared from early 1945 onwards, and began to flow from the frontlines to rear Czech repair centers "in large quantities" from March 1945, identified from their distinctive pair of green-painted small sidemounted superchargers, ie. as on the development engine 605L. I wonder about the details, I guess I will have to contact the authors themselves.. but it seems possible, the 605L project was cancelled in November 1944, and possible they merged the two projects into one for practical reasons of production. Very interesting indeed, I wonder what performance the K offered with such engine, and this may also be a clue about the "K-14" pair of JG 52, in Czech land again, by "coincidence"...



    "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".
    - Lt. Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

    "One day a Tiger Royal got within 150 yards of my tanks and knocked me out. Five of our tanks opened up on him at ranges of 200 to 600 yards and got 5 or 6 hits on the front of the Tiger. They all just glanced off and the Tiger backed off and got away. If we had a tank like that Tiger, we would all be home today."
    - Sgt. Clyde D. Brunson, US Army, Tank Commander, February 1945
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  6. #6
    Willey's Avatar Senior Member
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    Dec 2001
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    1,804
    Why so much different planes? It would be easier to just clean up the 4 crates we have.

    G-6/AS - 605AS, no MW-50!
    - higher rated alt than G-6 late, so better high alt performace

    G-14 - 605AM
    - just a G-6 late with MW-50

    G-10 - 605DB
    - The605D already incorporates the 603 charger, so it's practically what we have as G-6/AS (or should we call it G-14/AS? :wink in performance. It's with MW-50 like the G-14, but a higher rated alt like the AS. 1800PS is enough for theis bird for sure. Then comes the K-4

    K-4 - 605DC
    - Just the same engine as in the G-10, using better fuel. Better aerodynamics, more efficient prop, therefore it'S the best of them. According to those TsAGI charts (!) it does ~611 on the deck and 725 at 6k. We have the 725 up there already, but just 580 on the deck. Kinda strange.

    And for the B4/C3 availability freaks: There could be 4 K-4s. One ('44) with DB, and another ('45) with DC. The DB would still be better than the G-10, because of aerodynamics and the prop. But why not have a 2000PS K-4? If you don't like it, take the G-10 then . I suggest them like this because they would differ much more in performance than they do now. So there'd be more sense having each of those 4 late 109s. Now most players practically just skip them all and take the K-4, or the AS if they prefer turn fight (...why the hell does it turn better?? ... )
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  7. #7
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willey:
    Why so much different planes? It would be easier to just clean up the 4 crates we have.

    G-6/AS - 605AS, no MW-50!
    - higher rated alt than G-6 late, so better high alt performace

    G-14 - 605AM
    - just a G-6 late with MW-50

    G-10 - 605DB
    - The605D already incorporates the 603 charger, so it's practically what we have as G-6/AS (or should we call it G-14/AS? :wink in performance. It's with MW-50 like the G-14, but a higher rated alt like the AS. 1800PS is enough for theis bird for sure. Then comes the K-4

    K-4 - 605DC
    - Just the same engine as in the G-10, using better fuel. Better aerodynamics, more efficient prop, therefore it'S the best of them. According to those TsAGI charts (!) it does ~611 on the deck and 725 at 6k. We have the 725 up there already, but just 580 on the deck. Kinda strange.

    And for the B4/C3 availability freaks: There could be 4 K-4s. One ('44) with DB, and another ('45) with DC. The DB would still be better than the G-10, because of aerodynamics and the prop. But why not have a 2000PS K-4? If you don't like it, take the G-10 then . I suggest them like this because they would differ much more in performance than they do now. So there'd be more sense having each of those 4 late 109s. Now most players practically just skip them all and take the K-4, or the AS if they prefer turn fight (...why the hell does it turn better?? ... )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    BUMP

    JagdMailer
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  8. #8
    Quite opportunistic always to demand the highest rated plane, that might have exist.

    Checking all available curves and always demand the best for game? If so, do it for all AC, e.g. 640 SL for La-7, but it is 35 kph slower in game.

    If you read the TZAGI book, not only the charts, it becomes clear, there is no reference to K-4. Only a G-10, which is a poor performer at sealevel according to them.
    Kepp in mind, they used german sources as well, and we all know, that data of those docs are almost theoretical.
    There are various german K-4 charts available yet, in not a single chart it performs 611 SL.

    Props: I only got a reprint of curves, it becoms clear, that the best prop makes 727 at 8500m, ???but no change in sealevel. But this chart is questionable.
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  9. #9
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cokol_88IAP:
    Quite opportunistic always to demand the highest rated plane, that might have exist.

    Checking all available curves and always demand the best for game? If so, do it for all AC, e.g. 640 SL for La-7, but it is 35 kph slower in game.

    If you read the TZAGI book, not only the charts, it becomes clear, there is no reference to K-4. Only a G-10, which is a poor performer at sealevel according to them.
    Kepp in mind, they used german sources as well, and we all know, that data of those docs are almost theoretical.
    There are various german K-4 charts available yet, in not a single chart it performs 611 SL.

    Props: I only got a reprint of curves, it becoms clear, that the best prop makes 727 at 8500m, ???but no change in sealevel. But this chart is questionable.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Cokol,

    No opportunism in asking for engine combos that did exist on several aircrafts.

    I have no interests whatsoever for the La or Yaks so no point in me asking for them. However, if you like them, why don't you ask for them yourself if they were indeed available.

    Cheers,

    JagdMailer
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  10. #10
    Data I have on the DB605DC:

    DB605DC: Take-off and emergency w/MW 50: 2000hp @ 2800rpm @ 1.98ata.

    Without MW/50: Take-off and emergency: 1850hp @ 2800rpm @ 1.80ata.

    Other sources staete 2000hp @ 1.98ata with the C engine was only possible with MW/50 @ 110% emergency power.

    Janes 1945 AE gives difrent data for the DB605DC Ie.:

    Take-off and emergency: 1800hp @ 2800rpm @ 1.98ata @ S/L. 1800hp @ 2800rpm @ 1.98ata @ 16,700ft.


    Regards, John Waters

    ---------
    Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

    ----
    The one that gets you is the one that you'll never see.

    -----
    "The damn Jerries have stuck their heads in the meatgrinder, and I've got hold of the handle."

    Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. December 26, 1944.

    ------
    "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

    Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.
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