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View Full Version : Do You Want a Napoleon Sequel? (SPOILERS)



Shahkulu101
01-20-2015, 05:44 PM
So if you saw the end of Dead Kings, clearly the events of Napoleons life and his relationship with Arno were intended to play a big part in the series. I say "were" because Victory is the next AC game and I have a hunch that the continuation of Arno and Napoleons relationship was cancelled or put on hold due Unity's reception. All I know is, I do want to know what happened between the two. Why did they return to find Germain's body in 1808? What did Napoleon use the apple for? There's clearly a loose end here and if they just abandon it and pretend it never happened (which I suspect they will do) I'll be very disappointed. So personally, I want a Napoleon sequel as I feel it's important to find out why the relationship between Arno and him is hinted to be so important. I also have a soft spot for Arno despite agreeing with many of his criticisms. What about you?

Possible settings could be Egypt I guess, but Arno decides to stay in France at the end of DK. Any other suggestions? France again is a possibility but I wouldn't be particularly inspired by that, even though Paris was absurdly gorgeous.

Namikaze_17
01-20-2015, 06:09 PM
I thought on this as well...

I personally think we'll see Arno again sometime in the future like we did Alta´r in Revelations.

Who knows, maybe Sam is to Arno like Ezio was to Alta´r? Something links the two?

Besides, with the artifact going to Cairo & Napoleon's rise to power around the horizon, we'll see something interesting I'm sure.

ze_topazio
01-20-2015, 07:21 PM
On one hand I appreciate this thematically similar sagas they make, on the other hand I would prefer if they did thematically different games every year in different locations and periods.

aL_____eX
01-20-2015, 07:27 PM
I guess Ubisoft doesn't care much about Napoleon, looking at the way they handled the narrative between him and Arno and the way his arrest was explained.

edit: But you might be right, maybe they were holding back the interesting stuff for a future sequel.

VestigialLlama4
01-20-2015, 08:00 PM
I'd like a Napoleon sequel, where I get to PLAY AS NAPOLEON

The series needs to expand on possibilities, and the biggest one that hasn't been tapped is Playable Historical Figures. They had a chance with Mary Read (who was planned to be a DLC before they went with Adewale) and they used Blackbeard in multiplayer animus avatars. But Napoleon is even better. Napoleon's only legitimate biological son (Napoleon II - L'Aiglon) died young, but he had some illegitimate children and you could easily harvest his DNA.

Obviously they'll have to telescope incidents and they can't do a total open-world game, but I think Napoleon's career until he becomes Dictator(which includes a visit to Egypt and Italy) is good grounds, and the finale can be Waterloo.

As for Arno, I couldn't care less about him. He was nothing more to Napoleon than Unwitting B-tch #4 in his filing cabinet.

JustPlainQuirky
01-20-2015, 08:02 PM
If the Egypt setting had us playing as Arno vs Napoleon I would upfront not buy the game.

Prefer a different time period for Egypt.

With more interesting characters

ze_topazio
01-20-2015, 08:05 PM
I don't mind late XVIII century and early XIX century Egypt, but I want an Egyptian protagonist not a French dude.

Megas_Doux
01-20-2015, 08:36 PM
I'd like a Napoleon sequel, where I get to PLAY AS NAPOLEON

.

You know, still like to free run, combat, play in a OPEN world stuff and such, so

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/129/577/How+About+No.jpg?1307079577


Pretty bad idea in my opinion.


Back on topic, I dont see this happening, which is sad considering Napoleon status as one of the most interesting and important figures in history......

Shahkulu101
01-20-2015, 08:52 PM
I'd like a Napoleon sequel, where I get to PLAY AS NAPOLEON

The series needs to expand on possibilities, and the biggest one that hasn't been tapped is Playable Historical Figures. They had a chance with Mary Read (who was planned to be a DLC before they went with Adewale) and they used Blackbeard in multiplayer animus avatars. But Napoleon is even better. Napoleon's only legitimate biological son (Napoleon II - L'Aiglon) died young, but he had some illegitimate children and you could easily harvest his DNA.

Obviously they'll have to telescope incidents and they can't do a total open-world game, but I think Napoleon's career until he becomes Dictator(which includes a visit to Egypt and Italy) is good grounds, and the finale can be Waterloo.

As for Arno, I couldn't care less about him. He was nothing more to Napoleon than Unwitting B-tch #4 in his filing cabinet.

It would be a bit ridiculous doing parkour and everything else that an Assassin does with a historical figure like Napoleon. It would work with some people, like Mary Read for instance, but with Napoleon it would have to include strategy elements as well would it not? If you were implying that the core gameplay be removed, well then what would be the point in calling it AC? It would have to revolve around the convoluted lore as well, which would tarnish the real Napoleon. I'd be up for a spin-off of that nature for sure though.

I get that people don't like Arno that much, but it was so strongly hinted that something went down with Arno and him that will be explained later in the series. As long as we don't find out why Arno was with Napoleon in 1808, Arno's story will not be complete. And to leave a characters story unfinished is frustrating, it would be a great shame if they just swept Arno under the rug and forgot about him. Connor fans should know about that. I'd begrudgingly accept an explanation in a book, but I'd just read the details on the wiki. Don't like Arno enough to read a book about him.

This is less about Arno anyway. We have one of the most badass historical figures ever in Napoleon and if all we get is a bit-part role in Unity and a cameo in Dead Kings that would be a travesty.

Democrito_71
01-20-2015, 09:06 PM
If Ubi would make an AC-game in Egypt, I hope it's during when Napoleon conquered Alexandria cause in the end of revelations, Darim hid Altairs books in Alexandria. Maybe Napoleon is after those books??

Namikaze_17
01-20-2015, 10:10 PM
If Ubi would make an AC-game in Egypt, I hope it's during when Napoleon conquered Alexandria cause in the end of revelations, Darim hid Altairs books in Alexandria. Maybe Napoleon is after those books??

How does Napoleon know of...

Alta´r...? :rolleyes:

Journey93
01-20-2015, 10:20 PM
not if its with Arno
I really hope they bury that character (at least he deserves it unlike poor Connor)

if the protagonist of Victory is another Ezio clone I'll be pissed

D.I.D.
01-20-2015, 10:23 PM
It's possible to hook back into a Napoleonic plot from Victory via British Egyptologists such as Flinders Petrie. We could have Egypt explored in two or more eras, including Napoleon's invasion into Egypt.

Namikaze_17
01-20-2015, 10:28 PM
not if its with Arno
I really hope they bury that character (at least he deserves it unlike poor Connor)

if the protagonist of Victory is another Ezio clone I'll be pissed

Arno is alright.

Not my favorite by any means, but he's certainly growing on me.

A sequel was definitely in the horizon for him, but sadly, it wasn't meant to be due to things that were not his fault.

Still, I don't think he's buried or should be buried, as I believe something is still there for him.

And so far, every protagonist we've had thus far is not an Ezio clone.

And neither will Sam ( or whatever his name) begin it.

Megas_Doux
01-20-2015, 10:31 PM
not if its with Arno
I really hope they bury that character (at least he deserves it unlike poor Connor)



Double standards, gotta love them....

Hans684
01-20-2015, 10:38 PM
Not for Arno unless reliving his life does something unlike Unity.

Namikaze_17
01-20-2015, 10:42 PM
Double standards, gotta love them....


Not for Arno unless reliving his life does something unlike Unity.

Indeed.

http://www.ebengregory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/diddy_drink.gif

Hans684
01-20-2015, 10:46 PM
Indeed.

http://www.ebengregory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/diddy_drink.gif

A bad excuse is better than none at all.

Shahkulu101
01-20-2015, 10:46 PM
Not for Arno unless reliving his life does something unlike Unity.

Well presumably it WOULD be meaningful. We'd find out what Napoleon did with the POE for one, which could tie in with MD easily. Napoleon is an important character in the lore, harking back to the glyphs. A game with him would surely be purposeful, Arno or not.

Hans684
01-20-2015, 10:52 PM
Well presumably it WOULD be meaningful. We'd find out what Napoleon did with the POE for one, which could tie in with MD easily. Napoleon is an important character in the lore, harking back to the glyphs. A game with him would surely be purposeful, Arno or not.

Incorrect.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Apple_of_Eden_1

OwnersEdit
First Civilization (? - ?)
Louis XVI of France (? - 1792)
Napoleon Bonaparte (1792 - ?)
Harry Houdini (? - 1926)
Templars (1926 - ?)

"The Apple was later used in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, to cause the "Phantom on the Hill" effect. This effect created the illusion of a second gunman on the grassy knoll of Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas. The goal of this illusion was to make it more difficult to persecute Lee Harvey Oswald - a Templar sleeper agent - later on, and to disguise the true intentions of the Templar-executed assassination from later investigation."

We know the Templars had it in 1926 but beyond that we don't know it's current location, so if we where to have a game looking for this Apple, then it must be around 1926.

JamesFaith007
01-20-2015, 10:53 PM
Another game? No.

Connected DLC series similar to Tyranny of George Washington, lets say Italy - Egypt - Austria? Yes.

Shahkulu101
01-20-2015, 11:02 PM
Incorrect.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Apple_of_Eden_1

OwnersEdit
First Civilization (? - ?)
Louis XVI of France (? - 1792)
Napoleon Bonaparte (1792 - ?)
Harry Houdini (? - 1926)
Templars (1926 - ?)

"The Apple was later used in the assassination of John F. Kennedy, to cause the "Phantom on the Hill" effect. This effect created the illusion of a second gunman on the grassy knoll of Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas. The goal of this illusion was to make it more difficult to persecute Lee Harvey Oswald - a Templar sleeper agent - later on, and to disguise the true intentions of the Templar-executed assassination from later investigation."

We know the Templars had it in 1926 but beyond that we don't know it's current location, so if we where to have a game looking for this Apple, then it must be around 1926.

Oh.

Well personally I just want a well written story with great characters. Napoleon is a badass and I want to see him in action.

It would be nice if it added to the overarching narrative in some way, but if the historical story is good enough on its own I don't care.


Another game? No.

Connected DLC series similar to Tyranny of George Washington, lets say Italy - Egypt - Austria? Yes.

Potentially cool, but I don't think we have another Unity DLC coming and if it were a Victory expansion pack it would feel out of place.

I wasn't a big fan of superpowers and found the fact the apple created projectional visions cheesy as hell, but I'm not opposed to larger than life concepts if they can do them right.

Democrito_71
01-20-2015, 11:38 PM
How does Napoleon know of...

Alta´r...? :rolleyes:

Well, since Napoleon is acquainted with Arnowhich is implied in the end of Unity that they are acquaintances who knows about Altair's history and maybe have researched about Altairs library and his son Darim for Napoleon or perhaps there are documents about Darim and Altairs books Napoleons spies have found? What other reason would he conquer Alexandria? Maybe the books leads to a new, unknown piece of Eden originally discovered by Altair??)

JamesFaith007
01-20-2015, 11:49 PM
Potentially cool, but I don't think we have another Unity DLC coming and if it were a Victory expansion pack it would feel out of place.

I wasn't a big fan of superpowers and found the fact the apple created projectional visions cheesy as hell, but I'm not opposed to larger than life concepts if they can do them right.

Ah, I just meant it as concept of episodic DLCs, not return of superpowers.

Because Napoleonic wars stretched around whole Europe, Middle East and Africa; classical AC game concept wouldn't work here because majority of things would happened far away from Paris. And by my opinion AC game is able to hold only limited "out-of-map" missions, major city would soon become look too insignificant and mission not designed for free-roaming would soon create feeling of corridor game.

ze_topazio
01-20-2015, 11:51 PM
This piece of eden could be the one Napoleon seeks in Egypt.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Scepter_of_Aset

Notice how it gives charisma and leadership to its wielder, perfect for a military commander like him.

Democrito_71
01-21-2015, 12:01 AM
This piece of eden could be the one Napoleon seeks in Egypt.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Scepter_of_Aset

Notice how it gives charisma and leadership to its wielder, perfect for a military commander like him.

Wouldn't be surprised if this is what Napoleon would be after. Nice find!

Shahkulu101
01-21-2015, 12:16 AM
Ah, I just meant it as concept of episodic DLCs, not return of superpowers.

Because Napoleonic wars stretched around whole Europe, Middle East and Africa; classical AC game concept wouldn't work here because majority of things would happened far away from Paris. And by my opinion AC game is able to hold only limited "out-of-map" missions, major city would soon become look too insignificant and mission not designed for free-roaming would soon create feeling of corridor game.

Sounds good -- this I could get behind. An episodic DLC of that sort would be brilliant, providing little tasters for different settings every time a new one is released. Only question is what game could they attach it too? Unity is very likely finished in terms of content and with Victory it would feel out of place unless they found a way to link the two, D.I.D said that was possible. To be honest it would be cool if a stretched out episodic story was actually a full game.

dxsxhxcx
01-21-2015, 12:16 AM
I voted no because I want them to go back in time and not forward...

JamesFaith007
01-21-2015, 12:46 AM
Sounds good -- this I could get behind. An episodic DLC of that sort would be brilliant, providing little tasters for different settings every time a new one is released. Only question is what game could they attach it too? Unity is very likely finished in terms of content and with Victory it would feel out of place unless they found a way to link the two, D.I.D said that was possible. To be honest it would be cool if a stretched out episodic story was actually a full game.

Well maybe UBI should try to experiment and released episodic stand-alone game?

Because episodic game is probably only technically working solution, when major candidates for episodes:

1) Italy - defeating of Papal state and possible access to Vatican archives, connection to Ezio
2) Egypt
3) Syria - connection to Altair
4) Austria
5) Russia

are so different setting, not only architecture, but also clothes, wildlife and plants, that minimal reusing would be possible here.

Shahkulu101
01-21-2015, 01:03 AM
Well maybe UBI should try to experiment and released episodic stand-alone game?

Because episodic game is probably only technically working solution, when major candidates for episodes:

1) Italy - defeating of Papal state and possible access to Vatican archives, connection to Ezio
2) Egypt
3) Syria - connection to Altair
4) Austria
5) Russia

are so different setting, not only architecture, but also clothes, wildlife and plants, that minimal reusing would be possible here.

Yes, that's what I suggested but I worded it poorly. I would definitely support the idea, but not very likely.

It's absolutely the best way to incorporate multiple settings into one game, even though they wouldn't be used to their full potential due to them sharing the spotlight. It could even have multiple protagonists too, different Assassin's, each from their respective country, try to stop Napoleon -- a game with various protagonist was desired by the writers before but the technology didn't allow it. If a game was relaed episodically, that would make it all the more possible.

SirTookTookIII
01-21-2015, 01:03 AM
So I'm not quite sure if this would have anything to do with wherever it's going but I noticed that the man driving the wagon had different colored eyes. It looked like one was yellow but the other one looked different. Maybe I'm wrong, the quality on my screen may be distorting it for me. Either way, maybe someone else can check?

pirate1802
01-21-2015, 12:38 PM
Nope.

Only way i'd be able to stomach it would be if it takes place in Egypt and gets rid of Arno.
Victory is already stretching it to the limits. Another game set in the 18-19th century in Europe would make me go crazy. And god help me if they make such a game starring Arno...

Wolfmeister1010
01-21-2015, 01:33 PM
Doesn't Napolean have a conquest in Egypt?

I bet that he goes there to take the apple, and maybe Ubi goes through on their poll idea of having two ancestors in two time periods in the same location.

Fatal-Feit
01-21-2015, 02:41 PM
I still stand by the belief that Arno and Napoleon's story aren't done, they just won't have a sequel. It will be Revelations-esque in Victory.

Namikaze_17
01-21-2015, 03:17 PM
I still stand by the belief that Arno and Napoleon's story aren't done, they just won't have a sequel. It will be Revelations-esque in Victory.

This.

Megas_Doux
01-21-2015, 03:18 PM
Nope.

Only way i'd be able to stomach it would be if it takes place in Egypt and gets rid of Arno.
Victory is already stretching it to the limits. Another game set in the 18-19th century in Europe would make me go crazy. And god help me if they make such a game starring Arno...

I like Arno better than Unity┤s overall story being honest. Not trollling here... Why the hate on Arno?

Shahkulu101
01-21-2015, 03:59 PM
I like Arno better than Unity┤s overall story being honest. Not trollling here... Why the hate on Arno?

Because anyone that smiles from time to time, cracks a few jokes and has an extroverted personality is automatically an Ezio clone. :rolleyes:

I mean, it's clear that they did make him 'witty and charismatic' in an attempt to get people to like him a la Ezio, but they are different people. Ezio makes brash and inappropriate jokes like "haha I ****'a your sista!". Arno is more sarcastic and sophisticated. Ezio eyes up every woman with a pulse, Arno's story is about his love for one woman. They aren't that similar, Arno has his problems I'll admit - he wasn't developed enough - but saying he's just another Ezio is a shallow observation. Edward was clearly just another Ezio, amrite?!

Namikaze_17
01-21-2015, 04:02 PM
Because anyone that smiles from time to time, cracks a few jokes and has an extroverted personality is automatically an Ezio clone. :rolleyes:

I mean, it's clear that they did make him 'witty and charismatic' in an attempt to get people to like him a la Ezio, but they are different people. Ezio makes brash and inappropriate jokes like "haha I ****'a your sista!". Arno is more sarcastic and sophisticated. Ezio eyes up every woman with a pulse, Arno's story is about his love for one woman. They aren't that similar, Arno has his problems I'll admit - he wasn't developed enough - but saying he's just another Ezio is a shallow observation. Edward was clearly just another Ezio, amrite?!

I believe this stems from how Arno & Edward were marketed than how they were in their game.

Combine this with people who don't pay attention to the story and you get this "He's an Ezio clone!" fisaco.

But I agree.

VestigialLlama4
01-21-2015, 04:04 PM
I like Arno better than Unity┤s overall story being honest. Not trollling here... Why the hate on Arno?

Generally, because he's highly derivative of Ezio and Edward, a hodge-podge created by Ubisoft's marketing to create a new character to hang a franchise around. He doesn't feel like anything more than a stock RPG empty vessel with added characteristics from previously tested demographics. Earlier AC protagonists felt like distinct individuals since the writing and visual conception made them stand out from each other. Fans may be stupid, but they don't like being outright insulted with such an obvious lack of imagination:

From Ezio:
- The original black vest-white shirt dress he wears along with the black-hair and ponytail with Red Sash, and his face is essentially Young Ezio in Next-Gen.
- The whole spoilt village rowdy attitude in the opening sequence is Ezio in Sequence 1, AC2.
From Edward
- The alcoholism, including a Haze-Vision Quest level from Black Flag which doesn't work as anything more than a pathetic childhood fantasy (whereas in Black Flag it was about Edward coming to his epiphany).
- The whole smug attitude of calling Assassins cults, (which worked with Edward because he was a working-class outsider whose cynicism towards the Assassins was earned, compelling and genuinely funy compared to a pompous rich moron whose lines sound like winks to the internet chatroom).

About the only fresh element is the love theme with Elise, but there it's more because she's better written than he is. There too, it's also a variation with Altair's romance with Maria, Edward pining for Caroline and Ezio pining for Cristina, all three doomed loved interests coalesce in a single figure, more or less. So that's the hate on Arno, by and large. Some people who like the RPG stuff and they might feel that his allotted set of tics amounts to an illusion of actual characterization, others are more demanding and discerning, that's all.

In any case, I personally feel that Arno's story is done. The reason for that is quite simply Elise. Outside her, Arno doesn't really have any dramatic arc, since UNITY was her story. I mean in Dead Kings, they essentially tried to replace Elise with that mouthy kid Leon, but it only points out the real problem that Arno is just a cipher who doesn't have any story on his own. He has no reason to be an Assassin, no drive, no career, no ideals - nothing. If they follow his later stories, Ubisoft will have to find a new love interest and there's no way that girl can really compare to Elise, so it will disappoint fans further.

Ideally they can make a game revolving around Arno's friendship with Napoleon, maybe Napoleon mind-controls Arno via the Apple and uses him to kill people against his will and the game is about resisting his control (it can also work in a Bioshock 1 kind of metacommentary).

Megas_Doux
01-21-2015, 04:09 PM
Because anyone that smiles from time to time, cracks a few jokes and has an extroverted personality is automatically an Ezio clone. :rolleyes:

I mean, it's clear that they did make him 'witty and charismatic' in an attempt to get people to like him a la Ezio, but they are different people. Ezio makes brash and inappropriate jokes like "haha I ****'a your sista!". Arno is more sarcastic and sophisticated. Ezio eyes up every woman with a pulse, Arno's story is about his love for one woman. They aren't that similar, Arno has his problems I'll admit - he wasn't developed enough - but saying he's just another Ezio is a shallow observation. Edward was clearly just another Ezio, amrite?!

I was asking pirate in particular for I wanted to know his opinion, but you have a point. In regards on what you say, well I┤ve also read that the character is as good as the story surrounding him, I kinda agree with that as well.

You also have good points, Vestigia.

Journey93
01-21-2015, 08:22 PM
only if they bury Arno (which they probably will, thank god)
worst protag of the series easily

pirate1802
01-22-2015, 01:04 PM
I like Arno better than Unity┤s overall story being honest. Not trollling here... Why the hate on Arno?

Because man.. he feels very artificial. Not in voice acting or execution, but in his design, motivations and development. It feels like someone said: Okay guise! We need a badass hero for our upcoming AC! Ideas? And then people listed all the popular qualities people look for in a hero and thus Arno breathed. Very by-the-checklist, almost a walking cliche-bag. Arno is a good reminder of what happens to Art when it is produced purely to make money and nothing else. Also, as a subjective point, not being a great fan of romantic stories, his 'motivation' fell flat on me and appeared just a note above that of a crying child whose favourite toy was taken away. He spent the whole game like that, interrupted by bouts of drunkenness which served no purpose at all.

Infact much of Unity's story is like this. Boss says: Okay guise, we need a blockbuster story for our next game, what should we put in? Love! redemption! Dead parents? How about all of these! And thus Unity's story was born.

I guess when you make something from a checklist, to be rich and famous, it shows. Rather than having a character grow organically out of past trends in stories, the setting and whatnot. Vestigial's idea of a low class protagonist would have been wonderful, but then we would not have our protagonist enjoying those youthful innocent idle Ezioesque days, can we? :)

Shahkulu101
01-22-2015, 05:21 PM
because man.. He feels very artificial. Not in voice acting or execution, but in his design, motivations and development. it feels like someone said: Okay guise! We need a badass hero for our upcoming ac! Ideas? And then people listed all the popular qualities people look for in a hero and thus Ezio breathed. very by-the-checklist, almost a walking cliche-bag. Arno is a good reminder of what happens to art when it is produced purely to make money and nothing else. Also, as a subjective point, not being a great fan of romantic stories, his 'motivation' fell flat on me and appeared just a note above that of a crying child whose favourite toy was taken away. He spent the whole game like that, interrupted by bouts of drunkenness which served no purpose at all.

Infact much of unity's story is like this. Boss says: Okay guise, we need a blockbuster story for our next game, what should we put in? Love! Redemption! Dead parents? How about all of these! And thus unity's story was born.

I guess when you make something from a checklist, to be rich and famous, it shows. Rather than having a character grow organically out of past trends in stories, the setting and whatnot. Vestigial's idea of a low class protagonist would have been wonderful, but then we would not have our protagonist enjoying those youthful innocent idle ezioesque days, can we? :)

Sounds like double standards.