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View Full Version : There is a serious imbalance in the combat mechanics. i hope UBI takes note.



topeira1980
01-14-2015, 07:38 PM
hi guys.

** NOTE: this is game-mechanics spoiler, as far as im concerned. i couldnt tag it as spoilers below so be warned.**

there is a serious imbalance in the combat system, IMO.
if you are playing unity and find the combat hard and fun and aren't looking for cheap ways to make it easier for yourself than dont read the spoilers.
you will lose some of the illusion of challenge if you do.

DISCLAIMER: i cant seem to find the spoiler tag :-( please someone put a spoiler tag around the spioler

[spoiler]
this isnt much of a secret since anyone could have figured this out, and i bet some have, but i havent seen YT videos of anyone fighting with this... explot. Heavy attack is such an OP move that it nullifies most of the other combat moves in the game. i tried it for a few hours and basically i can win most fight against more than 7 enemies at the same time with just heavy attacks and parries, and im talking about having only 1 health upgrade and a one-handed level 4 sword, which isnt upgraded against enemies level 4 and 5 of all types (defenders, brutes, seekers, officers, you name it).

since there is no enemy in the game that has any ability to counter the heavy attack AND you can counter during it than there is no reason to do normal attacks nor stagger strikes, not to mention about worrying about what enemy you are attacking, what level he is and what might work or not. just one offensive move and parry is all you need.
this move is too fast, too damaging, the AI is impotent against it and it has basically no downsides.
yeah, i sometimes do get hit, but even if i do than it's maybe 3-4 times in combat (which is all it takes to kill me with my little health) so i can use a healing skill once or a single medicine but i used to need a lot of medicine to win a 7vs1 fight or to flee in order to survive. seeing that if i only use heavy attacks almost guarantee a victory, even against odds that were supposed to make me shiver and use stealth, i feel like there has to be something UBI can do. not likely that it will be done for unity, but i do hope it will be done for Victory (if that game even have swords).


possible solutions (either one might be enough to work, all of them combined can sure make a big difference):

1) make the player have a pause after each heavy attack, just like you pause after 3 consecutive light attacks. this will allow enemies to counter attack before arno can attack again.

2) make it impossible to parry during a power attack.

3) make enemies roll against your own heavy attack if they are hit with a heavy attack more than once in a combo. like they learn from their mistakes.

4) make enemies attack you while you are doing heavy attacks. not all the time but some of the time. this combined with idea no.2 can make heavy attacks something that has downsides as well.
[/spoilers]

what do you guys think?
do you even care? am i the only one who cares about proper balance in combat, even if it's an AC game where combat was never properly balanced?

share your thoughts, please.

Jackdaw951
01-14-2015, 07:53 PM
Combat and survival become way easy even without the strong-attack ability. Smoke bombs and insta-heal medicines make any death entirely your fault. Drop bomb; slaughter until smoke begins to clear. Repeat as needed. Heal when needed, which should be infrequent with these tactics. Smoke also breaks the line of sight of ranged attackers. Don't wait until you're engaged in combat to drop a bomb. Always do it when you are in control of the situation, and you won't get locked out of doing so. Maximize these consumables with gear, and all other augments are just icing on the cake.

And then there's the strong attack too.

topeira1980
01-14-2015, 08:04 PM
Combat and survival become way easy even without the strong-attack ability. Smoke bombs and insta-heal medicines make any death entirely your fault. Drop bomb; slaughter until smoke begins to clear. Repeat as needed. Heal when needed, which should be infrequent with these tactics. Smoke also breaks the line of sight of ranged attackers. Don't wait until you're engaged in combat to drop a bomb. Always do it when you are in control of the situation, and you won't get locked out of doing so. Maximize these consumables with gear, and all other augments are just icing on the cake.

And then there's the strong attack too.

the thing is - smoke bombs and medicines can run out. you can use this tactic maybe in three heavy combat situations before needing to go to a shop since to kill 7 guards in a fight you might need to drop about 3 smokes if not more) and only if you have a LOT of them with an expensive belt and an expensive sword (otherwise you wont kill more than one enemy for every smoke bomb if you drop it in a middle of a fight. and if you need to drop smoke on unaware enemies than that, at least, requires some tactics...), but heavy attacks are infinite and cost nothing. once you finish sequence 5 you can get it and it's way more efficient than any other upgrade.

Jackdaw951
01-14-2015, 08:14 PM
True. I have 13 bombs and 14 meds, with gear augments. But you can usually replenish them between major fights, even the few you start out with. Meds are relatively cheap when you have lower health too. (Now I refuse to buy them. I'll kill & loot easy targets until they're replenished.)

There's no question that you're right. If you play this game to win (as opposed to restricting yourself artificially to some "honorable" rules) it becomes ridiculously easy to prevail against any number of enemies, all by yourself. Sure, they could nerf the strong attack in the ways you described, but that wouldn't change matters much, which was really the point I was trying to make. They'd have to overhaul all combat and survival mechanics for that.

topeira1980
01-14-2015, 10:53 PM
if i was to tweak things from the ground up i'd make enemies under the cover of smoke maybe swing their swords wildly while coughing and staying in place, so you cant attack them and make healing have a short animation, slightly longer than dropping a smoke bomb, so its a little hard doing it even WHILE you attack or roll or whatnot.

but if i was to just tweak the existing game without changing animations than i guess i'd make healing take time (like the healing skill but slightly faster, or slow down the healing skill in comparison).
but i guess it's hard to know what to do against the mis-use of smokes. i just guess reducing the number of smoke pockets on all belts or something....

personally i barely use smoke as a means to kill. just pop it when im overwhelmed and run, as intended. but i usually use level 3 or 4 swords since i find level 5 weapons too strong and i like the balance of level 3 or 4 weapons. same reason why i dont upgrade my health any more than just that once.

i have a second playthrough and i am at sequence 6 now and didnt take the heavy attack skill. i think im gonna try and not have it. its a gimp i dont like but just knowing that i can just win so much easier WITH the heavy attack reduces some of my fun. im just happy i didnt notice it until i finished the game for the first time, so i had a really good 100h run.


i really wish some by some miracle UBI would patch this up somehow.
i think that enforcing a pause after every third attack AND after heavy attacks could work. so no more "stagger strikes, lite attack, lite attack, stagger strikes, lite attack, lite attack" and no more heavy attacks FTW...

but i would love heavy attacks to be just like they are and that the limitation would come from better AI and not by artificially gimping the player. if the AI could attack the player, stagger strike the player or just do something against heavy attacks than that would be the best, yet probably hardest, solution.