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RADAR__4077
01-13-2015, 07:10 PM
Poll: Do you want Ubisoft to just give us the gear they have been taunting us with for the last few months?

Please keep the answers simple.

1. Strongly agree. (It was a bad idea to lock it in the first place)

2. Agree. (I'm sick of the tedious grinding and just want to be done with it)

3. Disagree. (I still want to unlock it, either by club competition or some other means)

4. Strongly disagree. (I love club competitions!)

This is my first time playing with the poll feature so forgive me if it doesn't turn out right.

Altair1789
01-13-2015, 08:05 PM
I'd like to be able to buy them. I think club competitions with a more balanced ranking system and a different incentive could be an awesome feature though

Assassin_M
01-13-2015, 08:07 PM
Generally, I would say no, give us some sort of challenge but waiting for the competitions to start and then having patience when they're broke is enough of a challenge.

auditorevita
01-13-2015, 08:34 PM
I hate club competitions!

aL_____eX
01-13-2015, 08:38 PM
Generally, I would say no, give us some sort of challenge but waiting for the competitions to start and then having patience when they're broke is enough of a challenge.
Challenge yes, but not make the rewards exclusive to players who like to play Coop. There are still people who play singleplayer only with no interest in any multiplayer. And those should still have the option to get the Legendary(!) and therefore best gear in the game.

Perk89
01-13-2015, 08:46 PM
Can we add Altair's outfit to the list as well

RADAR__4077
01-13-2015, 09:53 PM
Can we add Altair's outfit to the list as well

Sure... but club competitions are my biggest issue at the moment.

GoldenBoy9999
01-13-2015, 10:41 PM
I'd like a separate, challenging objective so that solo players like me can unlock the Legendary items without have to play co-op. But I believe they are doing something like this, I think.

MrFuddyDuddy
01-14-2015, 12:25 AM
I could take it or leave it when it comes to Legendary Gear, Dev's are going to do what they feel we should do to get the gear. I will however state that I feel you should at the very least be able to pick which Legendary you unlock, or when you win "x" amount of club competitions you gain the ability to just buy every one you want. (Have over 2mil just sitting their with nothing to buy)

Megas_Doux
01-14-2015, 01:00 AM
Ubisoft......


I want my legendary medieval hood NAO! It looks so freaking boss :(

RADAR__4077
01-14-2015, 01:30 AM
I am actually very surprised to see the voting has been unanimous up to this point.

I strongly encourage EVERYONE who reads this to vote.

I would like to be able to gather enough data to show Ubisoft indisputable numbers showing where the community stands as a whole.

Let's get the total vote count into the hundreds, if not thousands!

Also keep comments short and civil. Do not distract from the primary purpose of the thread (gathering data) by arguing. Cast your vote, leave a SHORT comment if you feel the need, and encourage others to vote.

Altair1789
01-14-2015, 01:38 AM
Can we add Altair's outfit to the list as well

That will come next hopefully

Megas_Doux
01-14-2015, 01:50 AM
I am actually very surprised to see the voting has been unanimous up to this point.

.


I dont, this kind of stuff creates way more problems than fun to developers and players alike.....

xPLAY3R1x
01-14-2015, 03:13 AM
I agree 100%.

I wouldn't even care if we had to pay (real money) for the Legendary Gear as a separate DLC pack. That would give everybody the choice of whether or not they feel it is worth the price. UBISoft wins, players win, and more importantly, goodwill is restored to the consumer (community) which can have far reaching impact on future sales, and... Not just those made by the consumer him/herself a.k.a. Word of Mouth about how this company views and treats long-time customers.

Do the right thing, UBISoft!

P.S. -- I want the Legendary Prowler Coat!

I want to look like a 18th Century Batman all decked out in leather jumping from roof top to roof top :D

BloodyAugust
01-14-2015, 04:01 AM
I agree 100%.

I wouldn't even care if we had to pay (real money) for the Legendary Gear as a separate DLC pack. That would give everybody the choice of whether or not they feel it is worth the price. UBISoft wins, players win, and more importantly, goodwill is restored to the consumer (community) which can have far reaching impact on future sales, and... Not just those made by the consumer him/herself a.k.a. Word of Mouth about how this company views and treats long-time customers.

Do the right thing, UBISoft!

P.S. -- I want the Legendary Prowler Coat!

I want to look like a 18th Century Batman all decked out in leather jumping from roof top to roof top :D

I think a lot of us want that Prowler Coat. :p

HeJePi
01-14-2015, 05:06 AM
I hate those Club Competitions, the best way to express that is:

吐血 = Tor Hwee = vomit blood (in Chinese dialect Hokkien)

It is like putting a big juicy meat sausage in a glass box in front of a dog. Tantalus torment at its best :cool:

hawkxridge
01-14-2015, 05:39 AM
I feel like I'm getting bored with Unity, since I don't have the time to commit to multiplayer. If the Legendary gear was unlockable via single player I'd probably play it for longer, but I've pretty much collected all the gear I want minus the remaining locked Legendary ones. I still have chests and social club missions to finish, but I want to wait out this Legendary gear thing and hopefully get to run around in it if this ever happens.

They should've had Legendary gear unlockable on both single and multiplayer. Maybe the Legendary gear could be unlocked faster by playing multiplayer in order to have that incentive, but being able to unlock it on your own would also cater to those who just prefer the solitary experience.

HDinHB
01-14-2015, 06:13 AM
If Ubi had been clever, they would have would have set up multiple ways to unlock the items from the beginning. Let the player choose how they want to play.


Working club competitions: winner gets two items, 2nd place gets one item, items unlock for purchase by all competitors
Companion app: instead of spending 100s of hours unlock some livres or really crappy "missions," unlock a legendary item
Initiates: instead of locking the heritage outfits, unlock legendary gear at each level
Collectibles: gather all the goodies in a district, unlock an item
Side missions: complete all the missions in a district, unlock an item



And so on. This gives everyone a chance to unlock the stuff they want, in a way they might enjoy, gives extra incentive to complete the side content and challenges, and reduces the chance that rewards will get locked behind a buggy system.

That said, the co-op and clubs are fun even if a little buggy (it's Unity), and I don't feel a need to unlock all these items.

RuNfAtBoYrUn740
01-14-2015, 12:22 PM
There needs to be a singleplayer way of unlocking this gear. Something that is remotely acceptable as well. Not waiting half a year to unlock all the gear. That's absurd.

'Singleplayer and multiplayer are interconnected!' has just been used by Ubisoft as an exploit to lock gear behind multiplayer features.

Just release the gear to the public and put a cost on it. 150,000 Francs, 200,000 Francs, whatever, Just give us a viable, decent way. Not this anti-consumer wait half a year nonsense they're offering as an 'alternative'.

Cruelstoner
01-14-2015, 02:20 PM
Everything about this game gives me a headache! Unlock everything for us so we can have fun and stop worry about useless stuff and play other games we actually have fun playing! If it wasn't for all stuff being locked behind a iron curtain people would not be complaining near as much. We want games to have fun not for a endless grind of creed points we will NEVER be able to spend. Unlock it all!

mwkcope
01-14-2015, 02:22 PM
Ubi, if I log into a forum I haven't visited in months just to voice my opinion on something, you better listen.

doktrin
01-14-2015, 03:01 PM
agree / strongly agree.

the implementation is irredeemably flawed. months of grinding is completely unacceptable, and the "alternate" acquisition method is terribad.

Cipher-Six
01-14-2015, 04:07 PM
Seriously Ubisoft, you put too much game content behind walls.

It is okay if you put 1 (ONE) single piece of content behind a companion app, or 1 (ONE) single piece of content behind the ACInitiates. But you locked multiple pieces of content behind multiple walls.

That is too much. It is unacceptable considering I spent 60 (SIXTY) dollars on ACU. Stop being greedy, stop locking content away, stop trying to squeeze us for more of our money and time.

This is not good game design. Make better design choices. And stop being greedy. Unlock all locked content in ACU and AC 4 Black Flag. And don't ever lock content away from paying customers again in the future.

apokako
01-14-2015, 04:39 PM
Hey ubisoft, did you guys ever thought about the fact that you're also creating an inconvenience to people who :

- don't have enough time each week to play the competitions when they play video games in their free time ?

- will play the game late, when the competitions have stopped (just like the community events in AC Black Flag)

- will start a new solo file on the previous one (since you only made room for one) thus loosing all their hard earned items ?

Stop blocking content or we'll stop playing your games, you already have a bad reputation on this market, you should stop making it worse

RADAR__4077
01-14-2015, 07:03 PM
Hey Ubigabe...

Remember when you said claims that the "vast majority" does not like club competitions were unfounded?

The red bar at the top of the screen disagrees with you.

Pointing to the number of people playing the comps means NOTHING. If you are in a club you are participating whether you want to or you are playing the sp story!

Does a dog sit on command because it's fun? No. They do it for the reward. The fact that many dogs sit for a reward does not mean they have fun being commanded to sit.

They could eat food from their bowl. They don't need the table scraps, but they want the reward.

The only difference is it takes a second to sit, and WE ARE NOT ANIMALS.

Montouro
01-14-2015, 07:16 PM
That's what i was saying in another thread. They should create a DLC called Free for all and give everything for everyone. This game is broken and Ubisoft is playing with us. =/

RADAR__4077
01-14-2015, 07:17 PM
I just thought of a bullet proof way to settle this once and for all.

You have a "rate this sequence" tool, apply this to gear.

"Rate the unlock requirements" on each piece of gear and every outfit.

Do this and make the results public.

RADAR__4077
01-14-2015, 10:07 PM
Just had a little chat with UbiGabe...

Re: A paying customer who wants a solution to this standoff.
I'm concerned that you feel you are being treated with "total contempt" since we're taking great pains to keep the discussion civil. I thought that I'd made it clear that we would continue to monitor the feedback, but I see that somehow escaped the notice of several people. Please allow me to state clearly that I do not intend to insult or otherwise denigrate anyone involved in this discussion.

Honestly, these continued mischaracterizations and the idea that you can speak for anyone other than yourself is fairly contemptuous of my position.

Your suggestion that a poll that includes 100 respondents is indicative of the general sentiment of our community of millions of players is specious (even if it is a majority of respondents on this channel). A key part of the job of a Community Manager/Developer is being able to synthesize data from multiple sources and cut through the echo chamber that a forum can become - separating signal from noise is a major part of our job.

All that said, we're listening to you. We continue to listen to the community on this, but if we determine a change is necessary, it won't be within the next two or three days. You recommend using the rating system to gauge community sentiment on the Club Competitions, but the work that applying that feature to another part of the game it wasn't intended to work with would take weeks... if it is even possible at all.

This is not a standoff, although it may appear so to you. I personally have no reason to support or remove the feature besides ensuring that our players have a good experience... right now, several players are indicating that they would like Club Competitions removed, so I will pass that feedback along. I cannot, however, in good conscience say that all players feel that way or even that a majority of players feel that way because I don't have the data to back that up 100%.

I hope you can understand our position on this and have patience with our team while we continue to monitor this situation. Ultimately, our primary concern is that everyone have a good time playing our game and we can't rely on just you or 100 forum or reddit users to give us the entire picture.

Originally Posted by RADAR__4077
Dear Ubigabe,

I have been a big fan of the assassin's creed franchise since game #1.

However, I have many issues with unity, with club competitions at the top of the list.

I started a poll titled "Legendary Gear" on the forums which I would like you to review.

Please pay special attention to the results and the last 2 posts I made on page 3 and pass it on to the people calling the shots.

On a side note, the total contempt for the customer shown on the weekly hits thread is unacceptable.

RADAR__4077
01-14-2015, 10:09 PM
^idk how my original message end up on the bottom

TownyTownsman
01-14-2015, 10:37 PM
This shouldn't be in the console only section, there are plenty on PC who want Legendary Gear to not require bugged and impossible to do club competitions.

GoldenBoy9999
01-14-2015, 10:54 PM
I liked UbiGabe's reply. It makes sense. Especially the phrase "echo chamber". I was looking for something like that... Not that I strongly disagree with you though.

RADAR__4077
01-14-2015, 10:58 PM
This shouldn't be in the console only section, there are plenty on PC who want Legendary Gear to not require bugged and impossible to do club competitions.

I am on PS4 so that's why it's here.

I don't want to exclude anyone so by all means point them this way :-)

BloodyAugust
01-14-2015, 11:04 PM
^idk how my original message end up on the bottom

Oh well at least they are talking to you. They are right in that any change would take forever. With so much corporate bureaucracy in a multinational company as big as Ubi, changing this would probably have to go through a hundred dudes in different countries, then meetings, then talking to marketing, then to people monitoring different countries data, then back to meetings.

I almost wonder if there is some deal in place with Microsoft to extend this out for Xbox live cross promotion for X amount of months (maybe tied to their X-mas promotion deal,) if there is I doubt they can legally tell us. Locking the coolest gear behind Xbox Live/Playstation Plus, could have been assumed (by the Microsoft marketing department) to be an incentive to buy those services. We will never really know.

doktrin
01-14-2015, 11:09 PM
Your suggestion that a poll that includes 100 respondents is indicative of the general sentiment of our community of millions of players is specious (even if it is a majority of respondents on this channel). A key part of the job of a Community Manager/Developer is being able to synthesize data from multiple sources and cut through the echo chamber that a forum can become - separating signal from noise is a major part of our job.

It's totally correct that we can't claim with 100% confidence that this forum poll represents all ACU players. However, that kinda feels like a dead end argument. Of course we (the users) will have a tough time polling 5 million players. That's neither our job nor do we have the resources required.

Personally, I think this poll still sends a pretty strong signal. This forum doesn't cater to any particular niche and therefore doesn't suffer from any obvious biases. This isn't a gun control poll at NRA.org. The only thing users here have in common is that they play the same game.



All that said, we're listening to you. We continue to listen to the community on this, but if we determine a change is necessary, it won't be within the next two or three days. You recommend using the rating system to gauge community sentiment on the Club Competitions, but the work that applying that feature to another part of the game it wasn't intended to work with would take weeks... if it is even possible at all.

Gabe is also probably correct in that adapting the level feedback mechanism to something like club competitions is not realistic. That of course begs the question : why does Ubisoft not have a reliable and dependable way of gathering user feedback on club competitions?

They're so awesome at gathering data about individual levels (that take 30 minutes to complete and which players never have to return to), and yet terrible at gathering data on club competitions (that require MONTHS of dedicated grinding). How on earth did they not figure out a way to get player input on what is such a MASSIVE timesink?

RADAR__4077
01-14-2015, 11:10 PM
Just so we are all on the same page, the contempt I was referring to was the post saying another member should do other things with his free time.

I appreciate UbiGabe taking time to address my concerns.

The only question I have is does Ubisoft have any evidence that people actually ENJOY club competitions?

If so I am very curious to see where this information would come from. I honestly am open to the big picture.

apokako
01-14-2015, 11:27 PM
Yeah well of course we can't possibly reunite 1 Million people, however this poll does show that in a few hours and only two websites, we can have hundreds of people cast their vote to say that the concept of locking the legendary gear besides club competition should stop

On reddit an open letter to ubisoft has got up to +500 upvotes, all agreeing that they hate the idea of the legendary gear being locked behind the club competitions (http://www.reddit.com/r/assassinscreed/comments/2sc5nf/my_message_to_ubisoft_since_you_guys_do_monitor/)

That may not be a Million people, but it should give you a general idea of how the general feeling is, I don't think you could raise as many people to defend the club competition.

Now we understand, you need actual data, you represent a huge company, yadayadayada...

But please take this as a note that people hate locked content, every single forum has people complaining about it 24/7. Initiates, companion app (which got terrible reviews and is generally hated), club competitions...

Take it out of the next game (and this one) and you'll see people will magically stop complaining. And none would miss them. Because they are not likable, gamers perceive those as a chore.

The game got terrible reviews, this is a fact, as there are millions of bad reviews. You want people to like and buy your games ? Make them likable, and don't spit on your fans faces.

BloodyAugust
01-15-2015, 12:52 AM
So few people (compared to November + December) are going to be playing by the time the loot all comes out that it does not even matter, the damage has been done. More then half my full club of 50 (which has won all of the previous competitions by a mile) has not even bothered to log in to play this week, and I foresee the numbers only decreasing.

Assassin_M
01-15-2015, 01:04 AM
I'm wondering, though. How many of the 122 people who voted actually stopped playing club competition?

RADAR__4077
01-15-2015, 01:41 AM
I'm wondering, though. How many of the 122 people who voted actually stopped playing club competition?

Just in case you haven't been paying attention, people have said they participate because it has been the only way to unlock the items they want.

I will say it again.

Do not distract from the primary purpose of this thread by starting arguments.

If you like the comps please share your opinion.

Please don't post loaded questions which will increase tension and possibly start an argument.

Assassin_M
01-15-2015, 01:55 AM
Just in case you haven't been paying attention, people have said they participate because it has been the only way to unlock the items they want.

I will say it again.

Do not distract from the primary purpose of this thread by starting arguments.

If you like the comps please share your opinion.

Please don't post loaded questions which will increase tension and possibly start an argument.
Woah, woooaaaah, hold your horses, mate. I'm all in favor for removing the competitions. if YOU haven't payed attention, I say so at the beginning of the thread.

That out of the way, i'm saying that people shouldnt argue with Ubisoft about how to collect stats, that's SO passive. Okay, so we learned that their data collection is quite....odd. it counts how many are playing to relay the result that people like it. So? We stop playing it. Simple as that. They'll get the message.

RADAR__4077
01-15-2015, 02:09 AM
Woah, woooaaaah, hold your horses, mate. I'm all in favor for removing the competitions. if YOU haven't payed attention, I say so at the beginning of the thread.

That out of the way, i'm saying that people shouldnt argue with Ubisoft about how to collect stats, that's SO passive. Okay, so we learned that their data collection is quite....odd. it counts how many are playing to relay the result that people like it. So? We stop playing it. Simple as that. They'll get the message.

It's all good.

I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a blow up when the angry (and rightfully so) people saw that post.

I just want to keep this a peaceful protest.

Actually, if I get proven wrong, I wouldn't mind. At least it would be by solid numbers. Not meaningless stats interpreted to support a theory which otherwise has no real weight to it.

Munted 83
01-15-2015, 02:13 AM
Challenge yes, but not make the rewards exclusive to players who like to play Coop. There are still people who play singleplayer only with no interest in any multiplayer. And those should still have the option to get the Legendary(!) and therefore best gear in the game.

You can still play the coop missions on ur own. It's more of a challenge and you can still contribute to a club and get the gear. That's what I've been doing and ive been in the winning club the last 3 weeks

Democrito_71
01-15-2015, 02:15 AM
I totally agree that the locked legendary gears should be unocked. Instead of just giving us the gears, ubi could create new side missions that rewards us with the legendary gears for completing the side missions instead of having this "club competition" thing.

RADAR__4077
01-15-2015, 02:26 AM
I totally agree that the locked legendary gears should be unocked. Instead of just giving us the gears, ubi could create new side missions that rewards us with the legendary gears for completing the side missions instead of having this "club competition" thing.

I suggested that when we were still sitting around waiting for the comps to go live, but it didn't get very much attention.

This thread seems to be getting some attention so I will suggest something that I think will make alot of people happy.

Continue the comps for any who want to unlock stuff that way.
As a single player alternative, unlock a piece of legendary gear every time you complete a high difficulty heist solo without being detected.

No new levels would need to be made and it would be a challenge worthy of the prize. I would settle for this as long as it didn't take months to put in effect.

HeJePi
01-15-2015, 03:39 AM
When you do attend a "Problem Solving" seminar, the first thing we are told is:

* You must first acknowledge that there IS a problem,
so it will exist in the mind of everybody and everybody can work towards eliminating it.

If UbiSoft does not even acknowledge that there IS an issue, They will not look into a solution to resolve it :rolleyes:

It seems to me that UbiSoft confuse the cause and effects.

Just my humble opinion,
JP

Hrafnagud72
01-15-2015, 03:45 AM
I think Ubisoft's statement about lack of data for the majority is a cop out. It doesn't take a genius to see that the general public hates locked gear behind broken apps/content and single player gear locked behind multiplayer objectives.

I do not play the club competitions, I never will. I do not even belong to a club. I have no interest in multiplayer. So, for me (and for most people), locking single player gear behind club competitions is a slap in the face.

Altair1789
01-15-2015, 04:31 AM
This is not a standoff, although it may appear so to you.

This is a point that I've also wanted to make. When I complain about things like club competition, companion app, story, and all the other million things I complain about, I really don't mean for it to offend or insult anybody

To be honest, whether or not the "majority" likes club competition, there needs to be an alternative that cuts down on required spent time and required waiting time. If I have a job, or school, or whatever keeps me from playing Unity, I shouldn't be forced out of legendary gear. THAT was addressed with the 2 week thing, and thanks for that, but it will take forever for people to get the gear they want/ unlock all the gear. I'm not complaining about the 2 weeks, I'm complaining about how club competitions only unlock 1 unselected item per week. I suggest to you, Ubisoft- make each item cost 200,000 - 300,000 or even more to those who opt out of CC. This is my constructive criticism. I hope this is taken into consideration


So? We stop playing it. Simple as that. They'll get the message.

I like this suggestion :cool:

RADAR__4077
01-15-2015, 05:43 AM
UbiGabe did say that it has been noted that members of the community do not like club competitions. Hopefully changes, or news of plans for changes will come down the pipe soon.

And I never meant to offend or insult anyone either. I may not have chosen the best wording, but I am just trying to get a point across.

I don't understand why Ubisoft wants to be the voice of a nameless, faceless group in the community that apparently likes the comps. Just because we don't have millions speaking out doesn't mean millions don't agree.

I understand that I have no right to claim to be a representative of millions of people, but look at political polls.
I have never been asked who I plan to vote for, and a relatively small percentage of the population answers the polls, yet they seem to be fairly accurate.

I will try to be patient as we wait for news, but I think a poll with 140+ votes should receive more credit than it is getting.

Fatal-Feit
01-15-2015, 05:48 AM
I will try to be patient as we wait for news, but I think a poll with 140+ votes should receive more credit than it is getting.

140 votes with 96% agreement is 0.01% of the community to Ubisoft. We've had something similar for Black Flag's community events and they didn't do anything but made it worse. I'm not optimistic about this at all. :(


I like this suggestion :cool:

Oh hell no, m8. Just 1 more victory for the last club objective. ONE. MORE. VICTORY.

(very hypocritical on me, hehe)

xPLAY3R1x
01-15-2015, 05:53 AM
I don't understand why Ubisoft wants to be the voice of a nameless, faceless group in the community that apparently likes the comps. Just because we don't have millions speaking out doesn't mean millions don't agree.

I've been thinking, and I feel I have a pretty good idea of why UBISoft is so adamant about keeping the CC going even if nobody likes them and they will be dead within two, three months from now:

They need the active player data to support the stance Unity was not a failure of the new corporate strategy (mobile app and social media integration) UBISoft is trying out to see if they can get away with it in future titles.

I have a gut feeling they knew how bad Unity was (Alpha / Beta state), so the only way to bolster investor / shareholder confidence is to show them people "like" the game because there are people playing it online. Therefore, according to them, their new multi-media approach is working. We all know this is a false correlation, but it doesn't matter as long as it cushions the fall out of one of their multibillion dollar franchises being DOA during the biggest buying season of the year.

I have no evidence to confirm this, but how many times have the Community Managers kept insisting "people like the game, or else they wouldn't be playing MP"?

Read between the lines. Everybody's jobs are on the line with the terrible product that is Unity, so now they all need to figure out a way to put lipstick on a pig because Unity wasn't just about one product. It was about testing out a whole new marketing and integration strategy the likes have never been seen in games before... And hopefully never will again unless it is a F2P title.

RADAR__4077
01-15-2015, 05:59 AM
^you may be on to something there.

RADAR__4077
01-15-2015, 03:40 PM
150 votes. Strongly agree/agree > 97%. Disagree/strongly disagree < 3%.

That means something.

I noticed the vote count is rising, but the thread is slipping, so please give it a bump once in a while so we can continue to collect votes.

wildp1tch
01-15-2015, 05:34 PM
To me the kicker on games like AC, Watch Dogs, GTA etc. has always been the Story first and foremost . A good story that I want to complete, just like I watch a movie to the end. Additional bulk as in club competitions, mobile apps, browser games etc. that tie into the game are a welcome addition as long as they don't mess with the enjoyment of the game, don't hinder the completion and are well executed.

F2P as introduced to the discussion earlier is a total no go for me regardless of platform. The mere fact that there's a premium currency in ACU put me off in a big way. At least helix credits are relatively useless in this particular title, but the hint of what's to come is in there. I for one will definitely never pay additional money to unlock in game items. In fact the whole DLC thing already is very annoying, but that's a different discussion not to be had on an UBI forum.

Back to my original point, I get a feeling, that a majority of gamers who play these titles approach it similarly to me. They want the story which is mostly conveyed through the single player missions and possibly side missions. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

I appreciate that multiplayer mechanics are a way to keep players on the line, particularly if you lock away items behind them. I see friends of mine getting back to titles as old as CoD / MW2 to play multiplayer because they find it enjoyable. With regard to ACU though I feel that multiplayer is a repetitive drag, which some people go through to unlock items. I wonder how many of them will disappear as soon as they unlocked everything. I wouldn't be astonished if it were a vast majority. I know I stopped after being affected by the 2 billion+ creed points bug/cheat. Where of course the technical problems of the matter are a whole different issue.

The question that beckons to be answered is: what is UBI trying to achieve through multiplayer? After all there's no additional revenue to be had through club competitions, bare gamers buying boosts, which I think is highly unlikely given that equipment obtained through playing is sufficiently powerful to win whatever is thrown at you in co op. On the other side there's considerable cost attached to the upkeep of server side infrastructure.

TL;DR
I would play multiplayer if it was well executed, bug free and non compulsory. I even wouldn't mind companion apps and the like. But forcing additional sources of revenue down my throat is not going to happen.

Numbtoyou
01-15-2015, 05:55 PM
I've just learned that it makes more sense to wait at least 6 months before buying any ubi game. By then it'll likely be cheaper, half of the bugs will be fixed ( with the rest forever ignored), and you may actually get all the content instead of having to deal with dumb unlock mechanics ( aside from black flag). It makes more sense, the game will literally be a more enjoyable experience.

"The question that beckons to be answered is: what is UBI trying to achieve through multiplayer? After all there's no additional revenue to be had through club competitions bare gamers buying boosts, which I think is highly unlikely given that equipment obtained through playing is sufficiently powerful to win whatever is thrown at you in co op. On the other side there's considerable cost attached to the upkeep of server side infrastructure. "

It seems to be a misguided attempt to improve sales closer to launch. " BUY NOW OR YOU'LL MISS OUT!".... yeah....miss out on grinding and broken features, and major technical issues for a majority of the fanbase.

Had I known how terribly so many of unity's systems were implemented I would've waited 6 months to a year before buying it. And thats without having had any major technical issues, I've always been able to play with my wife and her i5 and 670 have run the game just fine. I can't imagine how frustrating this experience must have been for so many of you who have had to deal with these terrible tie-in systems along with technical issues.

doktrin
01-15-2015, 06:07 PM
I've just learned that it makes more sense to wait at least 6 months before buying any ubi game. By then it'll likely be cheaper, half of the bugs will be fixed ( with the rest forever ignored), and you may actually get all the content instead of having to deal with dumb unlock mechanics ( aside from black flag). It makes more sense, the game will literally be a more enjoyable experience.

This so much.

Early purchasers of ACU were totally shafted. Ignoring for a moment the 347,234 technical issues, the issue this thread addresses (club comps) weren't even rolled around until 2 months later for the holidays. It was so painfully obvious Ubisoft viewed all early adopters as paid beta testers.

Lesson completely learned. No more pre-orders, no more day 1 purchases. Hell, no purchases until I've read the reviews that have made it past their ridiculous embargo. Definitely felt like a bit of a chump back in October, and that's not something I want to have happen again :P

Altair1789
01-15-2015, 06:11 PM
I'm really glad that we're getting together to try to make a change. CC really needs to be optional for Legendary items


To me the kicker on games like AC, Watch Dogs, GTA etc. has always been the Story first and foremost . A good story that I want to complete, just like I watch a movie to the end. Additional bulk as in club competitions, mobile apps, browser games etc. that tie into the game are a welcome addition as long as they don't mess with the enjoyment of the game, don't hinder the completion and are well executed.

F2P as introduced to the discussion earlier is a total no go for me regardless of platform. The mere fact that there's a premium currency in ACU put me off in a big way. At least helix credits are relatively useless in this particular title, but the hint of what's to come is in there. I for one will definitely never pay additional money to unlock in game items. In fact the whole DLC thing already is very annoying, but that's a different discussion not to be had on an UBI forum.

Back to my original point, I get a feeling, that a majority of gamers who play these titles approach it similarly to me. They want the story which is mostly conveyed through the single player missions and possibly side missions. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

I appreciate that multiplayer mechanics are a way to keep players on the line, particularly if you lock away items behind them. I see friends of mine getting back to titles as old as CoD / MW2 to play multiplayer because they find it enjoyable. With regard to ACU though I feel that the multiplayer is a repetitive drag that some people go through to unlock the items. I wonder how many of them will disappear as soon as they unlocked everything. I wouldn't be astonished if it were a vast majority. I know I stopped after being affected by 2 billion+ creed points bug/cheat. Where of course the technical problems of the matter are a whole different issue.

The question that beckons to be answered is: what is UBI trying to achieve through multiplayer? After all there's no additional revenue to be had through club competitions bare gamers buying boosts, which I think is highly unlikely given that equipment obtained through playing is sufficiently powerful to win whatever is thrown at you in co op. On the other side there's considerable cost attached to the upkeep of server side infrastructure.

TL;DR
I'd play multiplayer if it was well executed, bug free and non compulsory. I even wouldn't mind companion apps and the like. But forcing additional sources of revenue down my throat is not going to happen.

I agree with this, I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve with club competition/ initiates/ companion app

leroy19852010
01-15-2015, 06:29 PM
yeah all i want is for ubisoft to stop trying to lock content away from us, i dont mind them locking it by completing single player missions or chalenges but not ever try torturing us with stupid iphone apps or website games, im sick of it. i just want to turn on the game and know i can sit and play and unlock any content i want without getting a headache

wildp1tch
01-15-2015, 07:11 PM
I agree with this, I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve with club competition/ initiates/ companion app

Thank you. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't know it themselves. One thing that is fairly obvious is that they are trying to have gamers more tied to the franchise, by giving them stopgaps to entertain them between releases (Initiates, unite). At the same time they are exploring options to increase revenue beyond DLCs. (F2P $1.99 companion app, Helix credits).

I would go out on a limb and say that what UBI would really love is an AC MMO in the fashion of WoW. Now such a thing is an all in bet. If successful it's a steady cash cow of egregious proportions. If a failure it might just send the company down the way of the Dodo.

ACU glaringly highlits that UBI has massive shortcomings on many fronts but particularly on the connected side of things. Initiates is pretty much suspended. Club Competitions are riddled by a bug or cheat that has their database have the maximum 32 bit signed integer as a point count. Lots of companion app users cannot be synchronized, which is most likely a server side problem since it concerns users across different platforms. They list goes ever on.

On the other hand it's definitely so, that UBI has to go the way of connected gameplay because we cannot turn back time and it is everywhere around. It's nowadays expected that a game has some sort of connectivity if released by major studio. Lots of gamers want some sort of it (think playing and progressing your game while you're at work, school) and shareholders demand it, not least because they expect it to be a source of increased profit.

And here we are, the customers who bought ACU. Beta testing the above scenarios for a multi million international gaming company. These are also some of the reasons for the recent surge in indy gaming. indies can offer their customers a very beautiful experience free of the constraints of corporate business.

Numbtoyou
01-15-2015, 07:50 PM
I'm really glad that we're getting together to try to make a change. CC really needs to be optional for Legendary items



I agree with this, I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve with club competition/ initiates/ companion app

My guess is the CC were initially going to be like a leaderboard of sorts. I actually don't hate the CC, I think it could actually be a fun idea. Try to find new cool ways to do different missions to earn points against those of your similar "skill". But when Unity was shown, and a lot of people (including myself), reacted in a " why would I want AC to be co-op" there was this sense of needing to push the co-op aspect more, leading to locking the items behind "winning". The fact that there are prices on the legendary gear seems to support this, that it wasn't always meant to be "win" only.

I admit, I was wrong, I think co-op assassinations are actually tons of fun ( when I choose what I want to play, and I don't have the carrot dangling in front of me of gear I think I should be able to have anyways), and the most fun I've had with the game. But UBI should've just trusted in their game mechanics to be worth playing, delayed the game 3 months to fix all the issues, and released a stellar game. I actually like most of the changes brought about in Unity. I feel more like a vulnerable assassin. I have to sneak, and use items/abilities to not be overrun by guards. AC3 was so boring to me because you weren't an assassin, you were a one man army killing machine. But the rest of the issues ( locked content, irrelevant connection to outside nonfunctioning systems) bring the experience down. One review had the tagline of "the highest highs and the lowest lows in the series", which I fully agree with.

But again, as wildp1tch pointed out, game companies don't necessarily want to make the best "game" anymore, they work for their investors, not for the consumers. As many sources of revenue, be it the form of microtransactions, f2p apps ( which in turn they can track you with and sell that tracking info), or DLC etc will be forced by those with MBA's. Its entirely possible the CC was an idea to keep people playing as long as possible in hopes that they would increase DLC sales. It makes sense, the more people are in the game, the more likely they will want more of it. I almost never buy dlc, but the times I have, its been when it has been released while I was still "in" the main game. So maybe I'm the problem haha. That said, they've definitely gone overboard in monetization strategies and lowered the quality of their game dramatically because of it.

wildp1tch
01-15-2015, 09:11 PM
I admit, I was wrong, I think co-op assassinations are actually tons of fun ( when I choose what I want to play, and I don't have the carrot dangling in front of me of gear I think I should be able to have anyways), and the most fun I've had with the game. But UBI should've just trusted in their game mechanics to be worth playing, delayed the game 3 months to fix all the issues, and released a stellar game. I actually like most of the changes brought about in Unity. I feel more like a vulnerable assassin. I have to sneak, and use items/abilities to not be overrun by guards. AC3 was so boring to me because you weren't an assassin, you were a one man army killing machine. But the rest of the issues ( locked content, irrelevant connection to outside nonfunctioning systems) bring the experience down. One review had the tagline of "the highest highs and the lowest lows in the series", which I fully agree with.

I agree with you. Ever since ACB, where you could call on your brotherhood, I thought that coop might be a great idea. I played it until the 2 billion point issue struck and until then I too thought it was rather enjoyable. Particularly when playing with friends and coordinating actions it was a brilliant experience. The irony is that, I as well as some friends didn't even play it for the gear but mostly for the club challenges. The bug in the end put us off mostly because we couldn't win a third CC.

I perceive that there's a lot of pointless ACU bashing. There are definitely a lot of technical issues and I'm affected by at least two of them which are preventing me from game completion. At the same time they will never be able to please 100% of their audience, especially with respect to how large the audience is. All AC games have had their fair share of criticism but with ACU it has grown to a point where I would wish for everyone to take a deep breath and reconsider. There are shortcomings and inconsistencies with modern day but they've been there all along as well as calls to get rid of MD all together. There are issues with the controls, but have we not been battling those ever since 2007? climbing walls we never intended to and jumping to our certain desynchronization from a viewpoint? I feel there's much complaining about first world problems here.

There are certain dubious decisions on UBIs side, like locking away game content behind companion app and CC but here's hoping that lessons will be learned. As customers we have a vote, our wallets are our ballot cards. If you feel poorly treated make it known the way corporations understand you.

xPLAY3R1x
01-15-2015, 09:23 PM
I agree with this, I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve with club competition/ initiates/ companion app

Like I speculated before... and some of you also picked up on it... The way Unity was designed to integrate multiple apps and external sources is basically a test bed to see if they can do this with future titles once the bugs are worked out. They want to maximize profit with multiple revenue sources and not just the core game itself.

Think about it.

We pay $60 for the core game and possibly some DLC if we like it, but that's usually where a game's life cycle ends.

Not any more... At least if this greed-fueled integratation model goes through and is polished. The worst case scenario is they will literally lock SP content behind paywalls IN THE SP GAME in future titles regardless of any MP. Like somebody else said, can you imagine them locking the best weapons in Far Cry behind a paywall? Or tying getting those weapons to having to complete CO-OP challenges since FC4 has CO-OP, too?

The server costs are nothing because it's basically P2P -- Peer to Peer -- With a game like FC4. P2P means you play on the other person's console, or vice versa since there are only two people in FC4. So, there is no cost since all they have to do is run the matchmaking listen server that links you and your friends together. They don't even need dedicated player servers like other games since P2P exists between consoles.

I said on another thread, the games industry is headed for another crash similar to the one that happened in 1983, involving the E.T. Movie game.

Consumers just got fed up with shovelware being marketed as full games and said, "Enough is enough!" They voted with their wallets and it forced the games industry to take a step back and return to quality games instead of the quantity of games being released. This is where the current AAA publishers are headed and I have no doubt UBISoft will be leading the way (even before EA) because we can see the writing on the wall with how Unity is one giant beta test for integrated marketing. That's why it is important we stand firm on the Legendary Gear issue because it's NOT just about the gear itself. It's about a slippery slope UBISoft is trying to set a precedence in because if they are successful with this model, you know EA and others are going to be right on their heels trying to emulate it and get their piece of the pie.

vegetollo7
01-15-2015, 09:26 PM
The club competitions are an interesting idea but I don't like the fact that so many legendary items are locked until you win x amount of club competitions. I have so much money to spend it's ridiculous but I can't buy anymore legendary items until I "play club competition." Lame.

RADAR__4077
01-15-2015, 09:31 PM
The club competitions are an interesting idea but I don't like the fact that so many legendary items are locked until you win x amount of club competitions. I have so much money to spend it's ridiculous but I can't buy anymore legendary items until I "play club competition." Lame.

Not just play, WIN. Week. After week. After week...

vegetollo7
01-15-2015, 09:42 PM
Not just play, WIN. Week. After week. After week...

Yeah I know. I was quoting the official description on how to unlock gear in the menus.

wildp1tch
01-15-2015, 09:47 PM
Not any more... At least if this greed-fueled integratation model goes through and is polished. The worst case scenario is they will literally lock SP content behind paywalls IN THE SP GAME in future titles regardless of any MP. Like somebody else said, can you imagine them locking the best weapons in Far Cry behind a paywall? Or tying getting those weapons to having to complete CO-OP challenges since FC4 has CO-OP, too?

[...]

Consumers just got fed up with shovelware being marketed as full games and said, "Enough is enough!" They voted with their wallets and it forced the games industry to take a step back and return to quality games instead of the quantity of games being released. This is where the current AAA publishers are headed and I have no doubt UBISoft will be leading the way (even before EA) because we can see the writing on the wall with how Unity is one giant beta test for integrated marketing. That's why it is important we stand firm on the Legendary Gear issue because it's NOT just about the gear itself. It's about a slippery slope UBISoft is trying to set a precedence in because if they are successful with this model, you know EA and others are going to be right on their heels trying to emulate it and get their piece of the pie.

We certainly can use legendary gear as a vehicle but it should be clear that it is also about a much larger point, namely the revenue maximization which is looming as you very well describe.

Numbtoyou
01-15-2015, 10:30 PM
We certainly can use legendary gear as a vehicle but it should be clear that it is also about a much larger point, namely the revenue maximization which is looming as you very well describe.

I'm afraid its too late. I thought the level of content cut from games to sell as dlc 5-10 years ago would be enough to change practices, but people buy it up. Then I thought the nickle and diming of micro-transactions would force a change in consumer habits, but nope, it increased profits. I think the ship has sailed on the "complete and functional" games market. The publishers pushed it little bit at a time, and now kids these days ( man that makes me sound old, Im 29...so I'm 'old' but not OLD) don't know any different. They grew up with microtransactions. They expect DLC to "fill out" the game. They see nothing wrong with it and make fun of those who hate it as being "too poor". I started gaming at 5 when my mother played through the original Zelda with me as a family activity. Kids now don't know that. They didn't spend hours trying to beat a single boss, or look for secrets because there were whispers of easter eggs during lunchtime at school. Now instead of hidden costumes/skins what have you, its $5 instant gratification. I'm not the marketed demographic any more. I'm just an old man reminiscing about the good ol' days and telling people to get off my virtual lawn.

Point is, what they are doing is making them more money or they wouldn't be doing it, and the main group of "gamers" now don't seem to care. They enjoy being ripped off. Maybe there'll be a tipping point, but its crept in so slowly I doubt it will happen. I hope I'm wrong, but 2014 may be the end of it for me aside from the few games that I'll bear the risk.

Anyways, sorry for the off topic rant, I just was thinking about this while on my lunch break.

wildp1tch
01-15-2015, 10:50 PM
Then I thought the nickle and diming of micro-transactions would force a change in consumer habits, but nope, it increased profits..

It's an appalling practice, where I don't understand why customers play along.


I think the ship has sailed on the "complete and functional" games market.

You're most likely right.


man that makes me sound old, Im 29...so I'm 'old' but not OLD

In this reference frame I'm in fact OLD. Suffice to say that my first console was an ATARI 2600 I extorted out of my parents sometime in the early 80s.


Anyways, sorry for the off topic rant, I just was thinking about this while on my lunch break.

I think your views and feelings are shared by many on here, me included.

doktrin
01-16-2015, 01:08 AM
I actually don't generally mind DLCs as most games I play have implemented them. For instance, I feel like Dead Kings is a legitimate and fully featured DLC. I would not have felt cheated had I purchased it for, say, $10-15.

As far as microtransactions, I can tolerate them as long as they're not necessary to enjoying the game. Again, as far as ACU is concerned, the microtransactions were by no means necessary - and thus I have no real substantive objection to their presence.

For what it's worth, I would also greatly have preferred unlocking the legendary gear with a simple DLC or microtransaction purchase rather than these obnoxious club competitions. No game, and certainly no single player game warrants months of grinding. That's just obscene, and I'd drop $5 in a heartbeat to be free of that s**t show :P

xPLAY3R1x
01-16-2015, 01:42 AM
I'm afraid its too late.

Actually, I think there is still a crash coming because it never ceases to amaze me how greedy some corporations can get.

Does anybody remember Divx, in the early '90?

Most people know it as a video codec, but there was a line of DVD players that bared thie same name when DVDs were starting to become popular. The basic concept was you would buy a movie, but you could not watch it unless your Divx machine was connected to a modem and phoned home to some central database which authorized viewing for 24 hours. If you wanted to watch it again... The whole reason to buy a DVD... The machine had to phone in and they also charged you $4.74, or something like that.

This was the first form of DRM, but when consumers got wind of this insanely greedy and anti-consumer agenda, Divx died on its launch day. Literally. There was a nationwide boycott and nobody bought any of the machines.

The point of this history lesson is never underestimate greed.

We have DRM like Steam, Origin et al. But I think if publishers become greedy enough and start to put parts of Single Player games... like campaigns and other core components... Behind pay walls a.k.a Pay as you Play, then consumers will finally have had enough and real change will take place... Because like Divx, it has too if enough people simply refuse to go along with whatever business model is being offered to them.

wildp1tch
01-16-2015, 02:19 AM
Actually, I think there is still a crash coming because it never ceases to amaze me how greedy some corporations can get.

Does anybody remember Divx, in the early '90?

Most people know it as a video codec, but there was a line of DVD players that bared thie same name when DVDs were starting to become popular. The basic concept was you would buy a movie, but you could not watch it unless your Divx machine was connected to a modem and phoned home to some central database which authorized viewing for 24 hours. If you wanted to watch it again... The whole reason to buy a DVD... The machine had to phone in and they also charged you $4.74, or something like that.

This was the first form of DRM, but when consumers got wind of this insanely greedy and anti-consumer agenda, Divx died on its launch day. Literally. There was a nationwide boycott and nobody bought any of the machines.

The point of this history lesson is never underestimate greed.

We have DRM like Steam, Origin et al. But I think if publishers become greedy enough and start to put parts of Single Player games... like campaigns and other core components... Behind pay walls a.k.a Pay as you Play, then consumers will finally have had enough and real change will take place... Because like Divx, it has too if enough people simply refuse to go along with whatever business model is being offered to them.

The DIVX you're talking about was intended as a rental service of sorts. You would technically buy a DVD for $4 and it would play for up to 48 hours from initial start. You could indeed call up somewhere to have it either unlocked again or and upgrade to DIVX Gold which was identical to buying the film. Horrible idea.

More to your point, I'm skeptical a major crash might happen since, as has been mentioned here before, the industry is taking a long step by step approach thereby lulling people into their new business models. First came DLCs, then micro transactions. And the industry has become much better at selling a bug as a feature.

DracoLeviathan
01-16-2015, 10:55 AM
And here we are, the customers who bought ACU. Beta testing the above scenarios for a multi million international gaming company. These are also some of the reasons for the recent surge in indy gaming. indies can offer their customers a very beautiful experience free of the constraints of corporate business.

It seems ironic that the shady corporate practices that Ubisoft has been resorting to as of late are precisely the notions that they so vehemently rail against within the narrative of Assassin's Creed itself. Abstergo is no longer simply a satirical representation of corrupt corporate values; but rather an analogous facsimile within the fiction of the very real corporation that dreamt it up. As I said... Ironic.

TL;DR: Ubisoft has become the real life Abstergo. (Minus the murder and darkside conspiracy stuff... I think.)

Numbtoyou
01-16-2015, 06:09 PM
TL;DR: Ubisoft has become the real life Abstergo. (Minus the murder and darkside conspiracy stuff... I think.)

Haha....I had a similar thought during ac4. I wonder if the devs feel like the "floating ipad" you play as in the modern day story of blackflag. They want to give us an awesome experience, but there are strings being pulled above them. They are just part of the machine, they mean no ill will but can't do much else. A good job is a good job.

I should qualify, I actually don't mind DLC if its a true expansion, from what I've seen, Dead Kings qualifies ( I haven't played it yet). The dlc in splinter cell:blacklist was obviously content cut from the base game to be sold for more profit ( really EVERYONE has 4 "personal" missions except one person who happens to only have 2 unless you buy the DLC, bringing it to...4).

I've yet to see a good form of micro transaction. The best I could see is the time saver packs that go around. Often they are in games that really do take a lot of time to grind up ( battle field 4 and the like), but in those games, the grind doesn't feel like a grind, since you tend to just get stuff as you play the actually game ( I think this is what Ubi thought they were doing with CC's, not realizing how much of a grind they really created). Its a hard balance to find, and unfortunately the scales have gone closer to the f2p model, where to actually earn the items through normal play takes longer than it probably should in hopes of increasing sales of micro's.

That said, I actually fully understand why this all is happening. SNES games were anywhere from $40 - $60...when I was 6. Games on pc still range from $40-$60, and AAA titles DO take more money to develop now; are much more complex, and possibly a bigger gamble financially for a company. I just wish they'd just say "game is $80, buy it get everything". A gallon of milk was ~ $2.30 in 1991, the average for 2014 was $3.60. Inflation is built into our economic practices, and trying to ignore that leads to the need to find money in other ways.

The reason they DON'T just raise the base price though, is because they make less money, thats where the greed seems to come in. People threw a fit when ps2 games were going to be $70. So they backpeddled, and found other monetization methods, which since have just spiraled out of control. Its true that general sales are much higher than they were in 1991, but it isn't enough to cover the increased costs anymore, selling games at $50-$60.

The kicker is these various monetization systems are whats killing gaming ( for me at least). I'd much rather spend the money upfront for a product and know what I'm getting for my money.

My_Treehawk
01-16-2015, 06:39 PM
Most of you are familiar with my voice already, so introduction aside let me provide some feedback from my club and what we have experienced over the past 4 weeks. I feel that this is relevant to where we are headed. I also apologize in advance for my typical verbose means of expressing this.

week 1: 2 members left; reason for both was the glitches that were not fixed and they could not join multiplayer. Note, we were able in most cases to get members connected, regardless of prior issues or lack of assistance from UbiSoft.

week 2: 2 more members left, one for the same reason as both in week 1, the other because the club competitions were "not for them" - they thought they would unlock everything at a much faster pace.

week 3: 3 members left, two for the speed of unlocks, both decided to move onto other games, 1 left because his PS Plus (and as such his abiltiy to join in game) ran out.

Week 4: 8 members left. 1 because of issues in RL, 4 because of the announcement that was made that the same gear was unlocking for all divisions and they saw no point in the CC worth continuing to put in the effort, 3 because we were hit this week with the 2 billion point glitch and lost the chance to get the reward this week since no one in that collection of teams would or could win - each of these three express in one way or another that this was the 'final straw" and were very upset with UbiSoft not moving to fix it or to announce that the clubs involved in groups with the glitch would be compensated - as of posting this our scores appear to be locked and none of the 5 clubs are seeing any further additions to their score, further exasperating the situation.

Interesting isn't it. We actually anticipate another half-dozen or so to drop out by the weekend for much the same reason (amounting to roughly 25% of the membership leaving in a single week), since this is what is being voiced throughout our voice chat conversations, club forums and PS chat channels. Most members (about 80%) are no longer running the CC and instead are coming on to talk about what to do next, many of them (about 75%) have stated that they may not run them again until there is a reason to do so, and will find another game and just come back on a few months and buy the gear. Add to this those that have gotten the DLC and discovered the second wave of glitches apparent within it - this did not help the situation since even the gear they earned there cannot be used by some of them and the co-op missions do not appear to work except in solo modes. The numbers are those from my club as I do not know the correct percentages for the other clubs in which I have contact.

yes, we still have 50 active members, but only because we keep a constant waiting list of no less than 15 members on hand and keep bringing them in to replace those that leave.

As a club these same people loved to run the CC event, they logged hours in and worked together to achieve amazing scores, but when it was announced that the most they could get out of it was "bragging rights and a single piece of gear" well, you can see what is happening. We asked for and will continue to ask the developers to provide a leader board, and or to improve the reward system. They have the data, providing it as a leader board would not require much more than a dedicated page, even on the Initiates site if no where else. Just that one change would give them something to feel like they are being rewarded for participating. Then unlock the gear and you have made both sides of the groups represented here in this topic and across several others quite happy - without making those members that are already playing CC and having fun the way things are now (I want to know where they are so I can recruit some of them so please direct me to this social media source because in the days since my last post neither I nor my officers can seem to find them) any less happy than they currently are.

As far as unlocking gear; there is not a single member among those that I have communications with, and this amounts to about 300 players in total (counting the memberships represented by club leaders I talk with) that would be against having a second avenue to unlock gear. Most (my own and the members of the other clubs - I am not saying most players around the world as I do not know what they think, though I can get a reasonable gauge of it based on what I can see here and in any other media source I can find) would like to see it come from the competitions, but at a faster and more equitable pace - or simply unlocked an made purchasable by another means - but if they had the option, even those that still want to earn it in CC would be happy to buy that which is not going to be presented for several more months as they do not see themselves playing CC for that long without some very serious changes.

I wish that I could rally all of them to come here and post, to vote or to speak out - but as it is the best that I can do, and as they continue to both thank and encourage me to do, is be their voice here.

Finally, I want to say this. My career of 14 years was to manage a facility for an international social science research company that contracted for groups like the DOD, IRS, Congress, Time Magazine, Annenberg School of Communication and a large number of universities, medical companies and various other prestigious groups and companies. I know that data can be presented to represent anything, regardless of the truth behind the entire results. I have seen some of the aforementioned groups present a summary of "opinion" that was not what we saw on the raw end of the collection, because they only expressed the results that gave the impression of what they wanted and withheld that which countered it. I certainly hope that this is not what UbiSoft is getting in their summary meetings, and that they understand that even raw data, if collected in a biased form or from a poorly designed model will not represent the truth. As some of you have expressed, activity in and of itself does not necessarily mean they are doing it because it is fun, from my experience, they are doing it for some form of a reward.

xPLAY3R1x
01-16-2015, 06:55 PM
Finally, I want to say this. My career of 14 years was to manage a social science research company that contracted for groups like the DOD, IRS, Congress, Time Magazine, Annenberg School of Communication and a large number of universities, medical companies and various others. I know that data can be presented to represent anything, regardless of the truth behind the entire results. I have seen some of the aforementioned groups present a summary of "opinion" that was not what we saw on the raw end of the collection, because they only expressed the results that gave the impression of what they wanted and withheld that which countered it. I certainly hope that this is not what UbiSoft is getting in their summary meetings, and that they understand that even raw data, if collected in a biased or from a poorly designed model will not represent the truth. As some of you have expressed, activity in and of itself does not necessarily mean they are doing it because it is fun, from my experience, they are doing it for some form of a reward.

This is why I am of the opinion this whole debacle isn't so much about the actual gear, or CC themselves.

I believe the real reason is UBISoft needs to convince investors / shareholders this integrated Mobile app & Social Media strategy actually works... When it does not.

Everybody knows the Initiates and Nomad integration are broken. Just plain broken. So, all they have left to fall back on to support their claims this new approach works is the CC participation data.

UBISoft really is Abstergo, it's not even funny.

My_Treehawk
01-16-2015, 07:18 PM
There is some measure of investment versus reward even for the developers (just as there is for the player in their end), whether this plays out on this title or the next. You may or may not be right about their reasons or what is playing out behind the scenes, but there has to be some way that UbiSoft can bridge the gap between what they need and can do, and what the vocal members appear to be asking for that falls within what allowances they have available.

My club and I hope that we can help them come to find something that works for everyone, well for most people anyway. I understand the difficulties our community manager faces here, as well as each of the members of staff that work to come here and be a liaison between us and them, and the position they are in - I do not envy them their jobs. I post because so many of my own members feel that they cannot find the words I easily express, or that want to rant, curse and blow up and respect my ability to at least remain calm and understanding of both sides.

I hope that we can facilitate change, I want to see both camps happy with the game, the means by which they gain and use their gear, and to have a future here in the CC to look forward to. I hope that all of us here, player and management share that desire.

By the way - I do not have a smart phone (I cannot use my work phone due to security restrictions and if I were to get a personal one those same restrictions would apply to it as well) and my laptop is an old model running XP (any time I buy a new one one of my children in college need it more than me), so I cannot even attempt to use the broken companion app and would love to be able to get the pieces by some other means. If the industry is heading in the direction you believe, then my time as an avid gamer is drawing to an end.

xPLAY3R1x
01-16-2015, 07:20 PM
Also...

I forgot to mention something that is directly related to what is going on and that is the CO-OP competitions require no skill.

When something is "easy", people get bored of it fast. It's not so much the grind as there is no challenge in some of these missions... Especially if you have done them 10 times already and know where to go and what to do to beat the AI. This isn't like PvP where emergent game play is a constant. There is nothing "emergent" with scripted AI. Even if the devs try and randomize the missions, they can only randomize so many times until they cycle back to something you've played through before. Hence, why there is no challenge if you have done the missions more than 10 times, or so.

My_Treehawk
01-16-2015, 07:39 PM
Also...

I forgot to mention something that is directly related to what is going on and that is the CO-OP competitions require no skill.

When something is "easy", people get bored of it fast. It's not so much the grind as there is no challenge in some of these missions... Especially if you have done them 10 times already and know where to go and what to do to beat the AI. This isn't like PvP where emergent game play is a constant. There is nothing "emergent" with scripted AI. Even if the devs try and randomize the missions, they can only randomize so many times until they cycle back to something you've played through before. Hence, why there is no challenge if you have done the missions more than 10 times, or so.

We foresaw that and created our own in-club challenges so it has not been an issue. That is true in many games and is inherent with many multi-player situations of PVE nature. I do not think we will see much development to alleviate it, as welcome as that might be. There is also the measure of inclusion that they write into how hard it is, so that more players enjoy it, rather than isolating those that find the challenge too difficult, again something that has come to be expected (we all saw the changes from AC II to III and then into IV with combat) and that can be overcome with some ingenuity and creativity. For instance, we run a club wide pick-axe only mission to bring a measure of challenge, or we do not allow members to go shop mid mission and force them to conserve or be more aware of ammo and expendables (and we still score well above 5 million points) - these are easy group-wide measures that can overcome such pitfalls. Where the game may require no skill, or present predictable and therefore quick to become boring scenarios, there are always means around that. Just saying...

BTW - even your own poll here is biased, since the title of the topic will draw those that are interested in the legendary gear, rather than truly polling a measurable cross section of all members, which you cannot do in this model - in fact I did not come here from the topic - I am not interested in legendary gear, but rather following another post elsewhere. As much as I believe that it is somewhat representative, the fact is, it is by its own nature as biased in its own way, as the data UbiSoft is presenting and you are arguing against. Without representing a scientific demography and presenting the questions in a neutral form that does not lead the answers, or attract a specific type of player or interest, or that provide answers that are drawn from uncorrelated connections (ie: participation versus enjoyment) you cannot trust your own stats here anymore than we say we trust theirs.

What is true is that our voices represent more than that of a single individual. We, each one of us that post here, represents many voices that carry the same concerns, questions, worries and fears but for their own reasons do not speak up - UbiSoft understands this I promise you. What we should be seeing however is a more balanced argument for and against what is being said, here and on other media platforms I watch and this is not happening, the ratio of those sounding out is definitely leaning towards asking for change (and there are many, many suggestions on how this coould be done) and there are very few shouting out that all is well and that they want to see things continue as they are - and quite frankly a good many of those that seem happy have a dire misunderstanding about several facets of the CC - like being first place in their division for instance, that is fueling their feeling of success. That is the only measure of what players seem to want that I can take to the bank at this point. The question is what will that change be and can we influence it to bring about something that works for the majority of players.?.

beastrock18
01-16-2015, 08:00 PM
The emphasis on "objective stats" and whether Ubisoft or the hardcore fans are better able to collect them is hardly the point, though. The problem is the system itself... you, who were once the champion of club comps, have pointed out several of the problems attending to the competitions and the "reward system" in several recent posts.

Discussing stats feels like a straw man argument at this point. No other triple-A single player game (with multiplayer elements) locks gear in such an aggressive, manipulative way.

wildp1tch
01-16-2015, 08:11 PM
@My_Treehawk

Allow me to voice my utter respect for your most considerate approach.

RADAR__4077
01-16-2015, 09:45 PM
@My_Treehawk

Thank you for your input. You have made some good points.

Yes, my wording for the question was biased. I admit it was influenced by my severe frustration and lack of interest in club competitions. Not only do I personally feel that sp items have no business being locked solely behind mp, but we were unable to even ATTEMPT to unlock them 2 months after release.
However I did try to leave the wording of the answers unaffected by this bias, 4 answers covering all points of view.

Also, I see what you mean about the title not attracting attention from all users. I created this poll because the inability to access these items is my primary issue with the game at this time.
Since you have the ears of 300 members of the community, please point them this way. The more people we hear from, the better.

RADAR__4077
01-16-2015, 10:09 PM
@My_Treehawk

Thank you for your input. You have made some good points.

Yes, my wording for the question was biased. I admit it was influenced by my severe frustration and lack of interest in club competitions. Not only do I personally feel that sp items have no business being locked solely behind mp, but we were unable to even ATTEMPT to unlock them 2 months after release.
However I did try to leave the wording of the answers unaffected by this bias, 4 answers covering all points of view.

Also, I see what you mean about the title not attracting attention from all users. I created this poll because the inability to access these items is my primary issue with the game at this time.
Since you have the ears of 300 members of the community, please point them this way. The more people we hear from, the better.

RADAR__4077
01-16-2015, 10:11 PM
Sorry about the double post. Posting from mobile and had some issues...

xPLAY3R1x
01-16-2015, 11:29 PM
My_Treehawk:

I feel one of the big underlying issue here is UBISoft gives no choice for obtaining certain pieces of Legendary Gear, but that it's also inconsistent as well.

For example, some legendary gear you can obtain by just playing a CO-OP mission solo. I have no problem with this. However, when they lock other legendary gear behind a MP-only competition this is what rubs me and probably a (unseen) majority of players who bought Unity primarily as a SP game the wrong way. If I want the Legendary Prowler coat, I *have* to play MP and be part of the CC. The problem is... I am just not interested in that part of the game at all. So, I'm unable to access something I already PAID FOR because I don't like what I am forced to do to obtain it.

I have no problem with those who like MP, but here is where UBISoft took away choice when they could have just made it more consistent across the board e.g. play a CO-OP mission solo and you are still eligible for the gear. What they could have done is produced special gear for CO-OP players as a reward for the CC. This makes sense (to me) more than an inconsistent "one size fits all" approach they are currently using.

aaronlex
01-17-2015, 12:54 AM
yo tambien

My_Treehawk
01-17-2015, 01:41 AM
@My_Treehawk

Thank you for your input. You have made some good points.

Yes, my wording for the question was biased. I admit it was influenced by my severe frustration and lack of interest in club competitions. Not only do I personally feel that sp items have no business being locked solely behind mp, but we were unable to even ATTEMPT to unlock them 2 months after release.
However I did try to leave the wording of the answers unaffected by this bias, 4 answers covering all points of view.

Also, I see what you mean about the title not attracting attention from all users. I created this poll because the inability to access these items is my primary issue with the game at this time.
Since you have the ears of 300 members of the community, please point them this way. The more people we hear from, the better.

I understand and did see where you tried to remain bias free in the answers, I just wanted you to see the reality of both your own and theirs so you understood that both of you were defending a faulty representation, albeit for different reasons. More than anything I want to keep the topic, along with the others here that share the same intentions as close to the point as possible and not see them lose influence or momentum.


@My_Treehawk

Allow me to voice my utter respect for your most considerate approach.

Thank you. I know I can be verbose, and it can often be difficult to remain objective when you are passionate about something, or when those that you are addressing appear to answer you in ways that exasperate the problem, but as I said, I represent a large group and I really do understand the situation of those above us, so I try to keep both sides in mind as I speak out here.


The emphasis on "objective stats" and whether Ubisoft or the hardcore fans are better able to collect them is hardly the point, though. The problem is the system itself... you, who were once the champion of club comps, have pointed out several of the problems attending to the competitions and the "reward system" in several recent posts.

Discussing stats feels like a straw man argument at this point. No other triple-A single player game (with multiplayer elements) locks gear in such an aggressive, manipulative way.

My point exactly. I think that both sides here (player and community managers) know what the problems are, it is how we solve them that should be the goal, (not the continued debates on if they are a problem) and what works best for both sides. It seemed to me that in the past UbiSoft was more communicative than they are now, but then I realized that there were less avenues for them to cover back then, so perhaps they are just as present, but are trying to cover many more places people are speaking out and have not increased the number of staff working in the community at the same ratio so it appears that they ignore us here.

We can only guess as to why it was done the way it was done, and without that information our speculations tend to run towards the more bitter side of them wanting to keep us from stuff. The reality is somewhere in the middle I think, and the sometimes passionate (at least I can see that they still believe many of the things they tell us by the way they present or defend them) answers that they give tend to make me think that they really did believe they were doing it in a way that the majority of the players would want to see them done, however, with the problems we had from the onset, and those that continue to this day, it worked against them and has become their crown of thorns.

Can we convince them to change course and make some changes - I certainly hope so, but we will not succeed if we focus on the argumentative, nor if they remain in denial of an issue or silent about current problems that still exist in the game. I hope that they come back from developer discussions and offer up some ideas, some changes that they think will work and we can put this to rest while we await them. I will ask others to come and post, but I do not really think that we need hundreds of people repeating what is being said to make a point. They know that I represent a large group, as do many of you even if you do not have them in direct contact with you - it is the nature of forums that anyone speaking is representative of a percentage of those that read and do not post.

My_Treehawk
01-17-2015, 02:27 AM
My_Treehawk:

I feel one of the big underlying issue here is UBISoft gives no choice for obtaining certain pieces of Legendary Gear, but that it's also inconsistent as well.

For example, some legendary gear you can obtain by just playing a CO-OP mission solo. I have no problem with this. However, when they lock other legendary gear behind a MP-only competition this is what rubs me and probably a (unseen) majority of players who bought Unity primarily as a SP game the wrong way. If I want the Legendary Prowler coat, I *have* to play MP and be part of the CC. The problem is... I am just not interested in that part of the game at all. So, I'm unable to access something I already PAID FOR because I don't like what I am forced to do to obtain it.

I have no problem with those who like MP, but here is where UBISoft took away choice when they could have just made it more consistent across the board e.g. play a CO-OP mission solo and you are still eligible for the gear. What they could have done is produced special gear for CO-OP players as a reward for the CC. This makes sense (to me) more than an inconsistent "one size fits all" approach they are currently using.

Honestly this puzzled me as well given what "seemed" to have worked for them in past titles. I agree with you in that I think the means to unlocking them should have been presented in either a way, or in two different ways, that covered both types of players - SP and MP. When I discovered how it was set up I had to wonder why this was not tied directly to the players creed score, unlocking items as it climbed, and through which, MP interactions would have sped it up making that a favorable choice for many to get the gear faster. I have millions of unused creed points even after using as much as I could to unlock items - even those I know I will never bother to equip.

Basing it on a 1-5 ratio win situation seemed like a very isolating, and time stretching model that would only bring players that fell into one of several categories; those that do not like MP, those that cannot network themselves into a consistently winning group, and those that do not want to take months for gear to become available, especially when the perks its are predominately only for completion of acquisition, not for in game advantages which to be honest are so minor that it really does not matter what you have equipped the difference in the challenge presented is still minor. The current method beckons to something that was going to be more than it is now, but when reduced to what we have lost much of its translation and appeal.

Yes, they could have provided different gear for the different groups, but then the collectors and completionists would have been right here where we are now and complaining about having to use the different modes to unlock specific gear. I do not think it is a gear issue, but rather a reward and time to acquire issue that spurs those of us that voice these opinions to get frustrated with this topic.

On the other hand, those that want to play the CC for fun (and again, I stress that even this fun lacks the level of reward needed to sustain it at the present time - at least from those I represent) are isolated by the lack of comparison to others, and the indifference of the divisions with the choice to make the rewards the same across the board. To the competitive player - that was a slap in the face as my earlier post on why members were leaving should have indicated.

So what do we do - what can we provide to help them find the middle ground between us and their investors/developers/etc. I would think that we need to know a little more about what they might be able to provide, and then with our feedback from that a sound decision could be made, otherwise we can only throw options into the air and see which fall to the ground, and which appear in future updates. Here is where the communication from them really comes into play - we want to help them, but without knowing what the limits of change are, we are as handcuffed to this as they are to the restrictions they are given with development.

wildp1tch
01-17-2015, 03:51 AM
This thread is becoming increasingly interesting as it grows. Maybe we can go through the effort to sum up the existing complaints in concise bullet points so as to have a common ground on which to base the informed debate.

Here's what I gather so far:



Legendary gear is locked behind not just participating but winning of club competitions
Club Competitions are affected by technical issues (e.g. 2 Billion Points Bug)
Players who prefer SP are locked out of acquiring legendary gear
Players who enjoy MP don't feel appropriately rewarded
The time frame for the acquisition of legendary gear is disproportionate to the rewards
The lack of leaderboard is detrimental to competitive gameplay


My_Treehaw adds these points

Players could be allowed two paths to acquire the gear, a SP and a MP path and allowed to choose which they will use for any of the pieces of gear.
There should be a difference in reward between benchmarks within the competition's divisions - ideally no less than 3; Bronze, Silver I and Gold I
Additional tools for club management should be provided, if not in game by virtue of a website [member participation (each member's weekly contribution to the score), club searches for those with full membership (50 members currently hides you from in game searches), fixes to the current club mechanisms in game (the constantly resetting member list, the defective in game accomplishments board, etc).
Gear and costumes locked behind defective companion app should be unlocked or added (or both) to the competition reward list.
An FAQ or CC Guide that explains some of the current misunderstandings about the CC that can be found in the forums and on the other media channels.
Clubs that were affected by the 2 billion point glitch should not be held back from advancement that week, or stricken from that week's reward.

RADAR__4077
01-17-2015, 04:14 AM
My_Treehawk

It appears you have assumed a position of leadership. (I mean that in a good way)

I suggest you bring the hundreds of players you have been in contact with here to continue and expand the discussion.

As I said before, I want to see the big picture.

I would like to see a trend. Vote, then make a suggestion for improvement.

I will leave a list of ideas later on when I get more time.

That being said. I have nearly run out of patience with unity.
I would prefer that Ubisoft give up on the experiments so I can enjoy the game, and try to do better next time.

They have messed with me in the 2 ways that get under my skin. My money and my fun time.

My_Treehawk
01-17-2015, 02:24 PM
My_Treehawk

It appears you have assumed a position of leadership. (I mean that in a good way)



That was not at all my intention - I am just a voice here, albeit one that seems to grow with representation each day, but alas just one simple and humble person. I cannot even say that I represent any of you and your own desires, except for a few that have somewhat implied this - the point being though, I am not in a position of leadership for this group, or even for those that have sent me messages or talked with me in voice channels - I think that they jsut believe that I am more capable or more successful in expressing these feelings in a way that they seem to think that they cannot.

Beyond that, the post here [Legendary Gear] was about those that desired the unlocking of the legendary gear and while I and many of those I speak with agree with you and the others posting in this topic, my struggle is primarily to try to see if we can facilitate some reasonable changes to the CC that will enrich them, make their management easier, provide a reward versus involvement that merits the effort, and to make them more fun and longer lasting (for the right reasons) and while I do appreciate the confidence you imply, I am not sure I would represent you and these folks as well as I try to do for those that share my own ideas about the club competitions and that have reached out to me to thank me for my position and effort since I started this campaign of mine.

That said - I think that both groups, those that initially came together under your flag waving for the unlocking of gear, as well as mine within the interests of the club competitions can and will benefit by grouping up for the common goal. As you have asked, I will make it a point to see if I can get others to come on and comment, to vote and to show their support. I am not sure that this is the right topic for it to evolve and wonder if perhaps one that captured both sides (in title) would be more effective in gathering players of like mind together - as well as perhaps seeing comments from any of those that disagree and are happy with the way things are. The title we used in another game was simply "Help The Clubs Please" since it carried a two-fold message, asking players to chime in and agree or disagree, as well as asking the developers to consider changes to improve the club interface and in-game handling for increased enjoyment and deeper interest in participation.

I was pleased to see the list above appear. I believe that is a step in the right direction and will help to keep everyone focused on the end goal that we desire. I think that the clearer we make things for the developers, the easier conversations between us and them will be, as well as making it simpler for them to comment on specific aspects or items we think need attention. Perhaps they can provide us with reasonable feedback as to if some of these can be addressed or not, and the reasoning behind both types of answers. This would help us to understand their limitations, and allow for a more expedient resolution if one can be found.

I have also found in the past - I have been involved with several games and their developers over the years and have sparked changes, and seen things come to pass that have enriched the game not just for us at the time, but all those that came later - that we can be of assistance to them, so long as we are allowed to understand what can and cannot be done on their end. For instance, would a Wish List be useful, would multiple suggestions on how to make something different allow them a broader spectrum of possibilities to present to their teams, would more in-depth explanation of the change and how we think it would work allow them to find an alternative manner to making it a reality?

Up until this point all we were doing was clamoring and complaining, and I for one would like to see all of us get past that part and onto something constructive. I think that is what everyone here really wants isn't it? Is that displaying the leadership you see? I see that as simply being a voice that is trying to stay level headed, respectful and understanding of limitations we may not be aware of - but that I believe to be surmountable if the right method is found, while still focusing on making real and substantial changes for everyone's benefit.

My_Treehawk
01-17-2015, 02:38 PM
This thread is becoming increasingly interesting as it grows. Maybe we can go through the effort to sum up the existing complaints in concise bullet points so as to have a common ground on which to base the informed debate.

Here's what I gather so far:



Legendary gear is locked behind not just participating but winning of club competitions
Club Competitions are affected by technical issues (e.g. 2 Billion Points Bug)
Players who prefer SP are locked out of acquiring legendary gear
Players who enjoy MP don't feel appropriately rewarded
The time frame for the acquisition of legendary gear is disproportionate to the rewards
The lack of leaderboard is detrimental to competitive gameplay




Players could be allowed two paths to acquire the gear, a SP and a MP path and allowed to choose which they will use for any of the pieces of gear.
There should be a difference in reward between benchmarks within the competition's divisions - ideally no less than 3; Bronze, Silver I and Gold I
Additional tools for club management should be provided, if not in game by virtue of a website [member participation (each member's weekly contribution to the score), club searches for those with full membership (50 members currently hides you from in game searches), fixes to the current club mechanisms in game (the constantly resetting member list, the defective in game accomplishments board, etc).
Gear and costumes locked behind defective companion app should be unlocked or added (or both) to the competition reward list.
An FAQ or CC Guide that explains some of the current misunderstandings about the CC that can be found in the forums and on the other media channels.

I have been asked to also add this one if the developers cannot correct the 2 billion point glitch this week
Clubs that were affected by the 2 billion point glitch should not be held back from advancement that week, or stricken from that week's reward.

You can add those to the list if you like, reword them as you feel needed since as usual I tend to over explain, but I wanted to throw those out there to satisfy those I am currently speaking with.

I also think that the developers and the players would benefit from an update or a new post of the currently "Known Glitches" topic along with the status as they did in the beginning. That was very helpful, it kept people calm and made it easy to see if it was something that UbiSoft was already aware of and what they were doing about it.

FrenchAussie
01-17-2015, 03:43 PM
+1 to you My_Treehawk. I support all your points!

RADAR__4077
01-17-2015, 04:20 PM
As promised, I have returned to throw some ideas around for improvement.
Keep in mind I have little interest in group competitions that go beyond 1 round (more than 1 loading screen) and would not be in a club if it were not necessary to access the SINGLE PLAYER content I want.

I will still address MP issues, and these ideas are in no particular order.

Single player alternative
As I have suggested before, you could unlock a SET of legendary gear by completing a specific heist mission solo without being detected. They could also add the requirement of opening a hidden chest during the mission to add to the challenge further.

Someone already mentioned leaderboards.
Make them with many layers, displaying the stats of both clubs and individuals. Show stats such as competitions won, total all-time score, number of weekly objectives completed, club of the week, player of the week, etc.

Complete overhaul of the comps themselves.
Instead of simply farming creed points, make it feel like a competition. Have 3 events focused on different skills
Relay race. Use the ghost feature to compare players as they race from point A to point B with no set path. The course would be divided into 4 sections, everyone would run the course, then best times for each club (max 1 section per player) would be compared to other clubs, players could watch the ghosts of all clubs race after it was completed.
Stealth mission. Player assassinate a target, receiving a time penalty every time they are detected or kill anyone other than the intended target. Again the best run for each club gets sent to the comp.
Combat mission. Players fight progressively difficult waves of enemies without the ability to heal or revive teammates. Last survivor wins.

All 3 of these would be combined to determine the overall winner. The competition would be an ALTERNATIVE for unlocking various items, and the top 3 clubs would be rewarded.

Apps... ugh... not a big fan, but I have nothing against a WORKING app that allows you to access IN-GAME content when you are not home, like kenway's fleet.

This just scratches the surface, but it's a start and my mind went blank lol. I'll add more when I think of something.

It's kinda sad that there is so much wrong with this game, that it difficult to enjoy the parts they did right.

My_Treehawk
01-17-2015, 05:36 PM
The following are my own thoughts on the topic and may or may not reflect that of the players in my club or those players who have allowed me to become their voice on these topics.

I will attempt to present items that I feel are within the boundaries of what can be done by the developers, given the tools and programming that I can either see, or that I know to exist. I will also break this down into categories to make it easier for me to put together, as well as for those of you interested enough to read it to follow.

Fixes: Things that require addressing within the game

My Club menu – this menu continues to jump around as it refreshes. This has caused several instances within my own club of inviting players in error, or altering the wrong person’s role in or even membership with the club as the name or the selection jumps along with the ever changing screen. Once this screen (the list of club members or the list of players to invite) opens it should be a static, scrolling list that does not change on its own accord.

2-Million Point Glitch - the current glitch needs to be fixed and those clubs that have been recorded as having been in a group affected by it allowed to unlock that week's piece by default, and advanced in the divisions if they were the 2nd place club within the group. This would still not address what to do to those clubs who HAD the glitched score, so unless UbiSoft can identify the Real Score and advance or reward based upon what the player cannot see, I am not sure what to do with them.

Phantom Members – if someone leaves the club, or is removed from a club they continue to display the club’s tag (ie: VocU) making it appear as if they are still a member. Once someone has left this should disappear so the proper and current members are the only ones showing the club tag.

Full Club cannot be found – Once a club is full (50 members) you cannot search for it by name or tag. This has caused issues where players either do not believe a club exists, or get frustrated trying to send a request to join to a club that they cannot find.

In-game club achievements stuck on #1 – within the club under the café the table that indicates a club’s achievements has always only displayed the first one, regardless of any others accomplished.

Accepting/ Not Accepting Applications - The club should be able to select if they do or do not wish to accept public applications, or even better, if they can select to only accept those from players on their friends list, the public or not at all. This would help with the players asking to join clubs that are not recruiting, or those clubs that only want to see applications from people they know, if any at all. Since it is easy to mistakenly accept a request to join, this would alleviate the need to then go back and kick out someone that was accepted in error. (See also #1 My Club Menu as this is often related)

You are in 1st Place Announcement – the message in game is misleading. It should read “You are in 1st place against your current opponents” or “You are in 1st place in this week’s match”. As it is there seem to be a lot of people (even within my own club) that think this means in the displayed division and not as it really illustrates, against the current selection of clubs.

Improvements: Things to enhance or improve game play, engagement and enjoyment

Leader Board - UbiSoft has all the data required to provide a leader board, I would like to see that used as the cheapest (on their end) and easiest method to put some competition into the competitions, to allow bragging rights and to instill a feeling of success for those that are putting in the time and effort. Since Radar outlined most of what could be contained I do not think I need to post specific details about it or its contents.

Club Management Tools – using the same data source as the leader boards, a club should be able to log into a website and see stats on their current membership; individual weekly scores (CC contributions), number of missions run, etc. This would be very beneficial to those that need to understand how their club is performing, as well as for allowing the club leaders to identify those within their club that have performance or contributions worth acknowledgement. On the flip side of this, it would also allow the club to identify members that may not be engaging in the CC any longer and perhaps have moved onto other games. Since there is a limited number of club membership slots, this knowledge is paramount in trying to keep an active group or to vacate unused slots for members wishing to join in.

Unlocking Gear (SP) – The Legendary and Companion app gear could have a means of unlocking them that is tied into the Initiates site instead of the CC or the App. This would allow SP focused people to use the Initiates site to access and acquire them as an alternative method. This could be done by level advancement, through performance based criteria, or by a mission path similar to that in the old site. This mechanism is already in place, and has been used to unlock other gear so it should not be too difficult to implement, and it also encourages the player to log onto and access the Initiates site. Of course I have to say this with the understanding that the site be active and functional, but I do believe this is forthcoming and we know that the site can work.

Unlocking Gear (MP)/ Division rewards – For the multi-player side I see two ways to approach it.
Option #1 – provide gear based on Division level through winning the weekly competition. 1 piece is awarded at Bronze, 2 at Silver I, 3 pieces at Gold III, 4 at Gold II and the addition of one of the weapons to the set at Gold I. Of course this could vary in whatever degree the developers decide, but the main point is to make advancement worthy of the reward. Personally this is my least favorite method due to the inherent isolation of 4 groups per week, and the further extended time to unlock them that those 4 clubs will endure.

Option #2 – each week a SET is presented and the acquisition of creed point benchmarks unlocks an additional piece. For instance, in Week 5 the Sans-Culottes set is made available. For every 500,000 creed points you unlock 1 piece of the set REGARDLESS of what place you finish in that week. The winning club is awarded one of the locked weapons, or possibly even one of the locked companion app pieces, in addition to the set pieces that they unlock with their score. This method encourages the clubs that are being dominated (and thus eliminated) to continue to play and increase their score since the higher they go, the more they receive. It would shorten the required time to access all the gear for everyone that wants to put in a little effort, and would not isolate or discourage those that cannot continue to win CC events.

Event/Scenario Advancement - While it would be great to see some serious in-game changes, challenges and new means to run the competitions, I do not think that this is feasible for the given timeframe, or investment of programming we are going to have available in this release. In future games, there could be events that go back to the old ACBF Wolfpack set up where clubs can choose the location (co-op mission or heist) and then advance up ever increasing difficulty levels (with the addition of specific parameters or handicaps at each subsequent level to make it challenging) and the results of these could score into the leader board for competitive sampling.

Club Based Initiates Challenges – the Initiates site could also introduce club based challenges along with the SP ones. This could either unlock items as mentioned for SP above, or it could offer badges or avatars as the reward. An addition of this type presents a change from the weekly club competition, as well as an alternative to unlock items for clubs that just do not enjoy a week long campaign against other larger or better skilled groups.

The goal I have here is to extend the FUN out to as wide a variety of players as possible, with as many different approaches to game play as I can, without burdening UbiSoft with a lot of new programming and development. I think that we could really see some exciting and interesting changes along this vein or using some of these ideas and how they tie into existing mechanisms, and while I am not adamant about the exact details provided, I hope that the concept is enough to spark some working ideas by the developers. I encourage everyone to offer support, ask questions and offer comments or suggestions on any of these and will try to answer any questions posted.

I would certainly enjoy hearing from UbiGabe, Escoblades and the others how they feel about these suggestions and if they think that any of them are even possible or could be presented for consideration along with what obstacles and/or pitfalls they feel are present in such changes that we might miss from our perspective.

RADAR__4077
01-17-2015, 06:01 PM
I agree with many of your ideas. I don't like the idea of using initiates though. Even Ubisoft has given up on it for now because it has so many issues.

I realize that the overhaul of the comps is not realistic for unity. It was intended to be an idea for future titles.

As I have said before, I am growing impatient. I would be happier if Ubisoft would admit that they tried new things, and it didn't work as expected. I'm tired of the wait, especially now that we have been given glitched dlc in an attempt to make up for a game that wasn't complete at launch. I would rather be given the gear I want so I can enjoy the parts of the game they got right, and they can try to do better with future titles.

My_Treehawk
01-17-2015, 06:19 PM
I agree with many of your ideas. I don't like the idea of using initiates though. Even Ubisoft has given up on it for now because it has so many issues.

I realize that the overhaul of the comps is not realistic for unity. It was intended to be an idea for future titles.

As I have said before, I am growing impatient. I would be happier if Ubisoft would admit that they tried new things, and it didn't work as expected. I'm tired of the wait, especially now that we have been given glitched dlc in an attempt to make up for a game that wasn't complete at launch. I would rather be given the gear I want so I can enjoy the parts of the game they got right, and they can try to do better with future titles.

I am hearing much the same sentiment over here, and while I have not given up on them, I fear that indecision and lack of communication or patches will cause even some of my most dedicated members to seek other activities.

I am also under the impression that Initiates has been left off-line because they are making some serious changes to it and are not releasing it until the work is done, so I have hope for that, and with such hope used it as the mechanism to deliver the items in my suggestions.

SHADOWGARVIN
01-17-2015, 06:31 PM
Forcing players to use initiates even more is a bad idea. Nobody should be forced to use a broken app, or a broken initiates website, or play some broken club competition. Players that prefer to play the game solo should be able to get all the items by playing the game.

NikoTehGreatest
01-17-2015, 06:45 PM
I agree with the poll and I think we should make a poll about the outfits and the gear being unlockable right from the start, not some app or club cometition ,which doesn't work properly and you have to also win and wait for the gear you want,but if your club doesn't win ,you will have to wait for it again so you can try and hope your club will succeed... Also,the outfit you have to unlock through the app is a dumb idea. Not only you have to do a lot of missions and wait for your assasins to complete the mission (they also have to be high level on order to succeed in their mission with ease,just for the record),you have to hope that it will sync with your game data or all the hard work and patience was for nothing and for what... so that you can unlock an outfit that you won't need it since you completed everything in the game. And the initiates...It's alright for the fans of the modern day lore,but with the outfits it's a hit or miss since it has problem syncing your game data from previous games and if you owned a last gen console and sold it for the current gen and it doesn't remeber you playing previous titles,then you are out of luck (unless that issue was fixed). When I played ac2 on my ps3 I didn't need to make a uplay account but I made it anyway since I was curious what it was,so when I saw the rewards I thought it was a cool idea : you get the points for completing actions so you can purchase an outfit or whatever they were offering.It was a neat idea and as more ac games were being announced,I was hoping that some outfits could be obtained through uplay.when I found out the only way to obtain Altair outfit is throug an app ,I was thinking "Oh,you probably need to just download the app and sync it with your game" not to sell your soul to the devil...So does anyone agree? Let me know your thoughts.

Also,can someone link me the thread about the customisation in AC:U? Thanks!

P.S. Sorry if something is gramatically incorrect,grammar is not my strong point nor am I english lol

xPLAY3R1x
01-17-2015, 06:58 PM
You will rarely... if ever... Hear a big corporation like UBISoft admit to a mistake.

They were FORCED to admit the f-up that was Unity's launch because the game came seriously close to violating Consumer Rights laws dealing with defective, or incomplete products in countries outside the U.S. That's the only reason they addressed it, patched it and offered free alternatives for those who bought it. If they didn't have to, they wouldn't.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I have my doubts anything is going to change at this point.

We all know this new integrated model is a failure, but there is nothing stopping Abstergo.. Er, I mean UBISoft... From trying it again in Victory, or even the PC versions of Rouge simply because this seems like one of their main corporate strategies moving forward. They will try and sugar coat it and say it's a way to "immerse and connect the millions of AC fans around the world" when that is the farthest thing from the truth. They want total control over a SP game where they can nickel and dime us for content that we should already have access to for the $60 and up price tag (depending on version you buy).

Like I said before, I want the Legendary Gear, but this whole mess seems more about trying the ultimate "DIVX" scheme for video games moving forward, and... That is unacceptable to me. The worst part is if they do perfect this in the next few titles (outside and including AC) then we are just screwed as consumers. It won't stop with Abstergosoft. It will spread like a virus to EA, Activision and any other AAA publisher who wants a piece of the pie because why wouldn't they try the same thing if they can get away with it?

I apologize for the rant.

I am trying to stay positive, but I have past dealings with UBISoft on various games (was even a Community Liason myself) and I have this gut feeling they really do not care and that maximizing profits are now the driving force beyond even rational decision making which may ultimately lead to their downfall.

My_Treehawk
01-17-2015, 07:05 PM
Forcing players to use initiates even more is a bad idea. Nobody should be forced to use a broken app, or a broken initiates website, or play some broken club competition. Players that prefer to play the game solo should be able to get all the items by playing the game.

I hope that it would be taken as implied that it would of course function. ;)

And as I stated in the very beginning of the post, those were just a few of my own considerations. Since my focus is in MP, the apparent weakness in my consideration has been pounced upon and exposed with my suggestion to tie it to Initiates rather then just give it away to everyone on the SP side of the fence here. Personally I still like the idea, but I do respect each of your opinions not to, and understandably so, given the recent track record and experiences we have shared.

SHADOWGARVIN
01-17-2015, 07:54 PM
my focus is in MP (.....) I do respect each of your opinions

As do I, but AC is and IMO always should be a SP game. Sure, it has had a MP component in the past, but the emphasis has always been on the SP experience.

Szavwa
01-17-2015, 11:40 PM
I agree with everything Treehawk is saying here and hope the mods will continue to check in periodically since it's cool to know they listen. After experiencing a number of issues in Unity, SP and MP, most have have since been fixed. I personally have been enjoying the club comps and I'm grateful to Ubi for giving us this new platform to connect with other fans of AC in-game. I'm excited to see how they'll improve on it in upcoming titles. I haven't participated much this week because of school and work, and I'll admit the 2 billion point glitch in our week 4 division was a bit off-putting (still holding judgment on this until the comp closes since we might still get the legendary unlock as we are almost certainly in 1st place otherwise), but I will be showing up to support my club next week as often as I can. I understand that my opinion is an outlier in this thread and within much of the AC community as I can only imagine how well the official Ubisoft Assassin's Creed forums represent the overall sentiment about any aspect of our beloved series; but I'm here to have some fun, meet new assassins from around the world, and learn to cooperate in a new gaming environment where I can see some amazing potential fun as the dev team keeps refining our experience.

Writing this to lighten the mood/ give Ubi some credit where due. I still agree with the changes/ fixes most of you are proposing but I'm happy to participate and see how things unfold in the coming months.

Good luck to you all! :)

Back to homework! :(

xPLAY3R1x
01-18-2015, 02:03 AM
I brought this up on the Club Competition Thread, but once again, I feel it applies aptly here as well:

What I find baffling is the inconsistency of how the developers decided to doll out rewards and character progression in Unity.

First, numerical level & ranking title in the SP game means nothing. It's based on time played and points accrued. Meaning, if you simply play the SP campaign, you are going to end up somewhere in the 30s. I ended my run on the PC as "Officer". I am now starting over on PS4 to do things better since I know how the story, side-missions and co-op solo missions all play out.

The main point is it doesn't matter what ranking (title) you have because that doesn't determine how powerful, or weak you are. What determines this is the diamond rating of the gear you can equip.

So, the SP game is really dependent on the gear you have versus any individual skills you may, or may not have. I know this because I finished the campaign about two, or three levels below the recommended diamond ratings toward the end. The game basically adjusted itself, so I stood a chance. I had run out of medicine vials and other essentials, but the game didn't put me back at the beginning of the finale missions at the Temple. It uses a checkpoint save system and when it reloaded, I had full health and a full stock of supplies like Medicine, Smoke Bombs, etc. It was the default number even though I had an upgraded belt. I guess that's fair?

In fact, once you finish the story, you don't even have to max out your character's skills and abilities if you don't want to. All the side missions and solo CO-OP missions are playable with the "default" number of skills you can unlock via the SP campaign.

Of course, then we come to how some of the gear is locked out of SP unless you participate in MP.

Does anybody see how inconsistent and overly complicated this whole system is?

It really did not have to be this convoluted, IMHO.

If they had simply left SP gear accessible in different ways (as it is now) in SP and made separate CO-OP gear... That you can only get for playing CO-OP... Rewards for playing MP, then I don't think people would be as upset as they are because everybody would be happy, one way, or another. Instead, UBISoft decides to force people who have no interest in MP to deal with a half-finished game as far as content goes... That they paid the same price for as people who play MP! This is what rubs a lot of single players the wrong way when all is said and done.

DemonLord4lf
01-18-2015, 02:36 AM
I actually liked the idea of Club Competitions and Co-op. However, i don't like the idea of gear being locked. I'm not a big multiplayer fan, but when i saw the new co-op features, i thought this was an awesome direction they were going. Unfortunately, it didn't pan out as well as it looked in the trailer. I think Co-Op is a cool idea, but it shouldn't be forced upon everyone.

HeJePi
01-18-2015, 06:16 AM
The legendary gear locked behind Club Competition is only the tip of the iceberg ... Behind every action there is a motive ...

And what is UbiSoft ultimate motive ? Keep the gamers inside Unity ! For what reason ? I don't know.
Maybe the number of people playing a game is a sign of its popularity ? In the case of Unity, it is not !

Unity is designed in such a way to keep the players 'captive' inside the game ... and sometimes drag them back when they leave :rolleyes:

* Additional objectives / requirements to attain 100% synch. For the main story line, Unity is pretty easy on that side.
The most difficult (for me) was AC III followed by AC IV. Gamers will repeat a mission to score 100%, that's human nature :D

* In game co-op mission that needs to be played a minimum of 3 times to get the 3 pieces of gear. I played all the co-op mission solo.
The first time, I discover ... 2nd time, I make it right ... 3rd time, it becomes boring. I never replay a co-op mission a 4th time.

* Nomad app. 7 locations x 3 diamonds x 3 missions = 63, minus 6 artifacts = 57 (in game chests & missions). So if you do not want
to 'waste' 24 hours waiting for your best 'Nomad' assassin to come back, you have to go in Unity to grab your chest / play the mission ...
which usually takes less than 2 minutes.

* Rift artifacts. This one is the ultimate brilliant idea to make the people run like mad dogs inside the Rifts for hours and hours ...
First, you need to run a minimum of 3 times to grab the so called 'Assassin intel.' = 7 Rifts x 3
Second, you have to beat the score (additional data collecting) so to have 100% on your tracker.
Third, the 'normal' + 'Nomad' artifacts. There is only 1 random appearance per run.
If you are extremely lucky you can do all this in 5 runs (provided you complete 100% the Nomad app.)
But usually it takes 10-20 runs for each.

* The Club Competition is also a great way to increase the number of people 'playing' Unity. At this stage it is no more playing,
it becomes a chore ... a pain, at least for me.

There might be other 'tricks' to force you into Unity that I missed out. But as you can read from above, the goal of UbiSoft is not
to keep you entertained but to keep you inside Unity ... ad nauseam.

As a conclusion, I will ask you a question: A bit more than 2 months after the release of Unity, who ever started a 2nd / new game ?
And who have the intention to do so ?

I have no intention to restart a new game ... When a game is captivating / enjoyable, you naturally want to play it again and again ...
I replayed all the previous AC games 2 or 3 times ... I will NOT play Unity again :p

RADAR__4077
01-18-2015, 07:41 PM
So... I'm in a comp with 2 clubs tied in 1st with the 2 billion glitch, 1 being mine. I hope I don't get screwed because of something I had no part in.

FrenchAussie
01-18-2015, 11:12 PM
So... I'm in a comp with 2 clubs tied in 1st with the 2 billion glitch, 1 being mine. I hope I don't get screwed because of something I had no part in.

Same here. Our clan has the 2 billion glitch but we invested a lot of our time to get 'real' points... one of our members got 3.5 million points alone this week...

wildp1tch
01-18-2015, 11:14 PM
So... I'm in a comp with 2 clubs tied in 1st with the 2 billion glitch, 1 being mine. I hope I don't get screwed because of something I had no part in.

The exact same thing is happening to me this week. Our club is shown in 2nd for what it's worth.

In addition my companion app has stopped working altogether. On the upside I didn't run into any issues with the Dead Kings DLC.

xPLAY3R1x
01-18-2015, 11:47 PM
Here is a simple solution that has probably been suggested before, but here it is again:

All the devs and execs have to do is make the Legendary Gear available for solo CO-OP missions the same as other (lower tier) gear is eligible to win in solo CO-OP missions. They can keep the Legendary Gear for CC as it already is. This is what I think most of us... including CC... Want along with proper CC elements like leaderboards, etc.

Make it happen, UBISoft...

RADAR__4077
01-19-2015, 01:38 AM
Here is a simple solution that has probably been suggested before, but here it is again:

All the devs and execs have to do is make the Legendary Gear available for solo CO-OP missions the same as other (lower tier) gear is eligible to win in solo CO-OP missions. They can keep the Legendary Gear for CC as it already is. This is what I think most of us... including CC... Want along with proper CC elements like leaderboards, etc.

Make it happen, UBISoft...

I don't understand why they haven't done this. They know many people don't like the club competition requirement, and they seem confident that there is still a large number of people who enjoy it. So give us another way to get our s*** and leave the comps for the people who enjoy them.

Selian DeSang
01-19-2015, 06:47 AM
So in four or five months when everything is unlocked and can be purchased, and i have my assassin just the way i want him. What then? i am already 98% through the game, some annoying artifacts to get(hey no smart phone or other app device) and rift missions that i just havent made a priority are really all i have left to do. What do i do when i finally have the gear i want? play a co-op mission that i have ground to a nice flat point from harvesting creed points? go back and play single player missions that i have met the objectives of for the past two months? Run around paris randomly taking out guards and thugs? try to hit a thousand set on crowd events? to be honest i am bored already with the game but seeing as it is the only game i currently have for this console i keep playing.... and i always try to get everything i can in an assassins creed game. honestly the equipment should have been tied to the level system as it stands it is kind of pointless. i have reached legend... did anything happen? nope.... i can still be killed, i didnt get a slew of new abilities, heck i still play in some lower level gear just because it makes it a tad more challenging (im fond of the arno tailored coat)

i guess the point to my rant is... when all is said and done, what will we have achieved? a bunch of frustrated players who will make it a mission not to buy or play the next game? that just hurts profits.

and i have run into a couple of players who say the comps are just fine the way they are, but i seriously think they were just trolling me.

unlock the gear for the price that is shown on the screen(if you wanted to make it special, dont show it to us with a game price next to it)

i feel like the horse with the carrot dangled in front of it.... no matter how hard i try to get to it.... it is always out of reach.

RADAR__4077
01-19-2015, 04:53 PM
@selian

That's why I have only done the story and missions that don't involve combat so far. I have done the murder mysteries and enigmas, plus a couple of coop missions when my club fell into second place. I only have 1 friend who owns the game and he is unable to afford a ps+ membership because his car got demolished by a snow plow so I'm gonna hold off on coop as much as possible, and I haven't touched the Paris stories because I want SOMETHING to do once I get the gear I want.

Also I will not preorder another assassin's creed title again. If victory is stuffed with multimedia garbage and forced multiplayer I won't even bother to play it unless it has an amazing story, which is doubtful at this point. If the story is the only good thing said about it I will just rent it and burn through the story in a weekend and never play it again.

This is coming from someone who has 100% and/or played though every game multiple times prior to black flag.

Selian DeSang
01-19-2015, 06:15 PM
@radar

i was never patient enough to have a game and wait, for me the AC series has always been about the story and the conspiracy, how the assassins were always sticking it to the man(i am a musician cant help but use old vernacular) i too have tried to 100% all the other games.... ac 3 and brotherhood are the ones i never completely synched out.... darn tank mission i always get shot.... or the stupid eagle.

point being since they dont offer extra save slots i will not really be replaying this game.... not after all the work i am putting into this file just to erase it to start a new game, which is what i did on all the other games except ac1. (whatever happened to replay value?)

as for victory.... well they are going to have to earn back my trust before i purchase.

xPLAY3R1x
01-19-2015, 06:36 PM
I don't understand why they haven't done this. They know many people don't like the club competition requirement, and they seem confident that there is still a large number of people who enjoy it. So give us another way to get our s*** and leave the comps for the people who enjoy them.

The solution I (and possibly others before me) proposed is the most logical in terms of fairness AND would probably take the least amount of coding to work.

It's just a list with set conditions, so I am sure they could add the entire arsenal to one CO-OP mission if they wanted to, hypothetically speaking.

I don't mind playing a solo CO-OP mission three, or four times to get the gear(s) I want. That doesn't bother me because I will just play it once a day. However, five is probably my limit and it's good they have some of the gear available for solo CO-OP for people like me as well as Sync points if you want to max out your Assassin.

The big problem is what Selain DeSang brought up:

What happens AFTER we get the gear we want since 90% of will have finished the game?

This strategy is not even greed-driven since they are making no money on the CO-OP. It's just baffling because I think they got the message their new integration model FAILED HORRIBLY, so I hope they don't try it again with Victory and subsequent UBISoft titles. Last thing we need to see is this intrusive crap in FC, SC and other franchises UBISoft owns :(

RADAR__4077
01-19-2015, 06:42 PM
That would be simple. We know they can also easily remove requirements seeing that they have already done it with a few sets. Of course, all of the gear I want is still locked behind the comps.

joelsantos24
01-19-2015, 08:27 PM
I think the bottom line is that these Club Competitions are very poorly characterized and managed. Essentially, there is no information on the criteria through which the clubs are being drawn into the groups. My friend made a quick research into the clubs that were in our group last week, and what he found was surprising, to say the least: our club has more than 20 players, there were two clubs with about 20 players, one with less than 20 players, one with more than 40 players and another with 8 players.

Does this seem like a fair draw to anyone? How can the club with 8 members be able to compete, especially against clubs with two (or three) fold their own numbers? Who makes the draws? Who defines the criteria? What are the criteria, to begin with?

All that which the club members of overwhelmingly populated clubs need to do, is to coordinate and commit, even if only for a few hours of gaming, and for merely a few days, and they secure the win. Which was basically what happened in my own group on New Year's week, we kept playing consistently but it was impossible to catch them.

Another issue, which is directly connected to the first, is the number of active club members. I have already mentioned that my club has more than 20 players, but the truth is that merely 6-7 of us are utterly active. In essence, more than 50% of our club members do not even contribute a single minute of gameplay, and therefore a single point, to our own classification. But they still reap the rewards, no less.

For all intents and purposes, there seems not to be a club managing system, at least not an efficient one. Maybe Ubisoft should establish a minimum number of points for each player in a club, on each round of play, in order for them to qualify for the reward, in case their club wins.

Ultimately, this is losing its own appeal, at least for me particularly, the competition seems unfair and the rewards are given at an incredibly slow pace. I really want the San-culottes Hood, but we already lost it to another club a couple of weeks ago, so will that mean that I will not be able to ever get it?

One word summarizes Unity and the Club Competitions so far: chaos.

RADAR__4077
01-19-2015, 08:33 PM
Now to add insult to injury, this week we get a sword that has the same exact stats of 2 swords that are already available and closely resembles the appearance of lower level swords!

Now I'm just getting angry.

RADAR__4077
01-19-2015, 08:36 PM
Idk about the rest of you but I have nothing to lose this week so I'm not even putting in the 500 minimum.

SixKeys
01-19-2015, 10:45 PM
Idk about the rest of you but I have nothing to lose this week so I'm not even putting in the 500 minimum.

Same. I am so over club competitions already. The more we play them, the more Ubi will be convinced everybody loves them. I'm just gonna keep playing the game as usual, but I'm not going out of my way to earn points for the comps anymore. Especially since they announced there will be a way to unlock the gear some other way in the future.

RADAR__4077
01-19-2015, 10:59 PM
Same. I am so over club competitions already. The more we play them, the more Ubi will be convinced everybody loves them. I'm just gonna keep playing the game as usual, but I'm not going out of my way to earn points for the comps anymore. Especially since they announced there will be a way to unlock the gear some other way in the future.

Hopefully the other way isn't the "wait 3 weeks after the comp and buy it with in game money" crap. My club has won every comp so far. I don't want to still be waiting for the gear I want 4 months from now! I want to be able to just have fun at my own pace without waiting for these stupid timed multiplayer events! Why should I have to play the same missions with 300 people dozens of times in a week just so I can have 1 item to use in single player?!

I have tried to be patient, but this is getting ridiculous and the lack of any real news about the subject is only making it worse.

SixKeys
01-19-2015, 11:32 PM
Even if the other method involves waiting, it's not like it matters. If your club happens to lose, you're still gonna have to wait like everybody else. Our club has won 2 competitions so far, but lately it seems our luck is starting to turn. And the more competitions we lose, the less inclined people will be to keep playing. In the end everybody's gonna play the waiting game eventually, so who cares if we happen to get the first two or three pieces of gear early?

Altair1789
01-19-2015, 11:39 PM
I wish they'd just give us other methods of getting legendary gear/ companion app items. Some people actually can't connect their consoles to their internet, and some people don't have tablets or smartphones believe it or not. Ubi seems to have forgotten about them. Even if we're actually the "vocal minority", that doesn't justify leaving only 1 method to get items, especially when it requires things like smartphones and tablets. I don't have a tablet at all, but luckily for me, my phone is barely new enough to play the companion app

RADAR__4077
01-19-2015, 11:46 PM
The point I was trying to make is that if I'm going to wait for the gear, I want it to be because I haven't taken the time to earn it, not because it's on a ridiculously long timer.

The longer this drags out the less likely I will be to give them my money in the future. Even right now it will take alot of work to regain my trust.

If they don't work something out by the time I stop playing unity, which won't be long at this rate, I think I'll be done with the series all together.

The story is gone and the features they force on us aren't fun, so why should I play future titles?

My_Treehawk
01-20-2015, 02:49 AM
And the more competitions we lose, the less inclined people will be to keep playing. In the end everybody's gonna play the waiting game eventually, so who cares if we happen to get the first two or three pieces of gear early?

This was just what I was talking about in my post - each week there are 4 clubs that have to wait another week, or wait for the 2 weeks to buy it and all that is doing is discouraging 4/5th of each group of clubs each week. That makes no sense - you would think that they want them to be encouraged and to want to keep playing for the many months to complete the sets, but no, they design it so that the majority loses and gets nothing for any time they put in. This never made any sense to me at all, marketing, money making, or otherwise. You are right, I think that each week more an more clubs are just going to decide to wait the three weeks, after all, what is the point of trying with all the glitches and no word of a patch coming. They are saying that even though you will not see the score in game properly, that they, behind the scenes are going to ensure that the winning teams are properly awarded. I am sorry I do not buy that, we heard it last week and so far not a single club that I have seen has come on to say "hey they were right, we were in second place behind the 2 billion point club and were awarded the belt".

HeJePi
01-20-2015, 03:38 AM
So this week Club Competition is over and every person who participate in the 'winning' team will receive their reward ... happy ... happy :D
They can show off all around in their new piece of gear ! A moment of virtual Glory !

All the others will have to wait another 2 weeks to receive the same reward ... without even playing ... even more happy :D

The main question is: Who really enjoy doing that ?

RADAR__4077
01-20-2015, 04:40 AM
Bad news guys. On the weekly hits thread they said the whole wait 2 weeks thing IS the alternative.

**** you Ubisoft. You just lost yourself another paying customer.

The_Kiwi_
01-20-2015, 09:25 AM
Holy crap, dem poll results are cwazy

Literally 90% strongly agree, and 179 people have voted

RADAR__4077
01-20-2015, 04:42 PM
Ok I've had some time to cool off...

I am very angry with the path Ubisoft has chosen because it only punishes those of us who bought the game early.

If I had bought unity 6 months after release, I would have a much higher opinion of it.

I preordered what I trusted to be another top-notch COMPLETE assassin's creed game.

I was given a game that was so badly glitched that it had already received 4 massive patches in the first 2 months.

In addition to this, much of the single player content is locked behind online features. The companion app, initiates, and club competitions. With the way the comps are going, I will not even be able to attempt to unlock everything for a few months. After that, EVERYONE can simply purchase everything with in game money.

I have been punished for preordering.

m4r-k7
01-20-2015, 05:04 PM
Unity is mucked up in many ways.

Hopefully Victory will fix the core issues of Unity.

Doubt it though, Ubisoft never learn.

mrbrightside2011
01-20-2015, 05:54 PM
Unity is mucked up in many ways.

Hopefully Victory will fix the core issues of Unity.

Doubt it though, Ubisoft never learn.

Rumour has it the protagonist in Victory will start the game in just his pants and socks. You'll have to download a companion app just for the privilege of putting on his trousers. The rest of his kit you earn by either playing Club Competition until your sense of self-worth has evaporated (Ubisoft will verify this by forcing you to cry on webcam) or by pledging your first-born child.

My_Treehawk
01-20-2015, 06:20 PM
If I had bought unity 6 months after release, I would have a much higher opinion of it.

It may very well be that this is exactly the strategic thought behind what we are seeing. Those that come into the game after the dust settles should and would have a higher opinion of it, while those of us here from the start have been hit hard with all the problems, (what we think of as) poor decisions on the gear distribution, the Initiates site being unavailable and the companion app problems. It would be real helpful if we had that checklist (as we saw right after release) that listed known issues and status of repair, or if someone posted what the next patch will be addressing and a rough ETA on when we might see it.

If I were in their position I cannot say that I would not look at it that way myself. Is there any way to recover those that have given up - not really, but if they make changes now, that prevent those that come on later from feeling the way we do, then they have saved themselves from losing new fans, and there is a chance of gaining a larger player base. Is that what I want to happen, or the strategy I want them to take - not at all, I would rather see changes that benefit both groups, and I think we outlined some of them very well in the post here in this topic.

You and I and my dog can spend all day long guessing why, and what is happening behind the scenes, but until they communicate (and UbiGabe's last post to us was one of only a few that actually gave us some useful information on what they are doing, and how they are deciding things) with us that is all it can be - guessing.

RADAR__4077
01-20-2015, 06:59 PM
Just so there's no confusion on where I stand, Ubisoft will not get another penny from me until they earn my respect again.

I am done with unity until the gear I want finally comes down the pipe. Then I will wait to buy it with in game money.

As for victory, even if it turns out to be the best game in the series (VERY unlikely), I will by it at the local second hand electronics store. After doing research to see if it's even worth my time of course.

You should be proud of yourselves....

This is coming from the guy who jumped on AC3 after seeing the cover shot. (I'm American give me a break)

xPLAY3R1x
01-20-2015, 07:23 PM
I've played ALL the games in the series,going back to 2007, but Unity will be my last. Period.

UBISoft and the CM have shown blatant contempt and disrespect for their loyal and paying customers on so many levels it's not even funny.

I am still playing Dead Kings, and finishing up Paris, but that's it.

Screw it.

I have Arno's gear and that is what I like the most... Even if I am missing his legendary coat. I'd like to have the full set, but I have no choice in the matter.

I just hope this integration model isn't a bad sign of things to come on other UBISoft games. I keep saying it, but I have a sinking feeling this prototype... While an utter failure in the eyes of the public... Will not stop UBISoft from doing it on other titles because they are blinded by greed and the color green... Or whatever the color French Francs are.

mrbrightside2011
01-20-2015, 07:48 PM
Just so there's no confusion on where I stand, Ubisoft will not get another penny from me until they earn my respect again.

I am done with unity until the gear I want finally comes down the pipe. Then I will wait to buy it with in game money.

As for victory, even if it turns out to be the best game in the series (VERY unlikely), I will by it at the local second hand electronics store. After doing research to see if it's even worth my time of course.

You should be proud of yourselves....

This is coming from the guy who jumped on AC3 after seeing the cover shot. (I'm American give me a break)

Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. The only other game I was looking forward to as much as ACU was Far Cry 4, but I can't bring myself to buy it because I refuse to send any more money Ubisoft's way. Just going to wait until the price has dropped a bit and buy it secondhand, and will probably do the same for their other releases until they sort their **** out.

The things is, I actually hate that this is the case and I hate that I only joined this forum simply to express my sheer frustration at Ubisoft getting so many things wrong in just one game. I've yet to play an Ubisoft game that I haven't enjoyed, and have loyally followed the AC series since AC2, but Unity was a disaster on so many levels that it's hard to just let it go. The fact that they are still refusing to release the gear locked behind club competitions and have just released a DLC full of bugs suggests to me that they're not particularly interested in anything we have to say, and that's no way to keep consumers happy.

RADAR__4077
01-20-2015, 08:16 PM
I forgot to mention in my last post that I have followed the series since game 1.

AC3 was when my enthusiasm for the series was at its peak.

I was very excited with the direction of the story, and when I saw that AC3 would be set in the American revolution, I was disappointed that it wasn't available for preorder yet.

I am an American who has been told he looks like an Indian his whole life because of traces of Cherokee DNA poking through. So you can imagine why I would be excited, given how well thought out the series was at the time.

It's sad really. I have never been so frustrated by any Ubisoft game, and now I'm doubting that the division will be worth it.

I don't understand why they insist on destroying their loyal fan base for no apparent reason.

RADAR__4077
01-21-2015, 04:20 AM
Well... thanks for the support everyone.

Obviously Ubisoft doesn't care enough to listen, but we gave it a good shot.

If you haven't voted yet, please feel free to do so.

It appears that this thread will soon fall to the depths of the forums as another failed attempt to make a difference.

Thanks again everyone. I guess this is the end of my crusade against the comps. Time will tell how Ubisoft's handling of unity will affect the future of the series. I honestly don't see things getting much better.

Hrafnagud72
01-21-2015, 05:28 AM
Just so there's no confusion on where I stand, Ubisoft will not get another penny from me until they earn my respect again.

I am done with unity until the gear I want finally comes down the pipe. Then I will wait to buy it with in game money.

As for victory, even if it turns out to be the best game in the series (VERY unlikely), I will by it at the local second hand electronics store. After doing research to see if it's even worth my time of course.

You should be proud of yourselves....

This is coming from the guy who jumped on AC3 after seeing the cover shot. (I'm American give me a break)

Ubisoft hasn't gotten my money since AC4. I didn't buy Rogue or Unity, played them both but didn't give money to Ubi for them. And I will continue to not buy their games until they get their **** together.

Green_Reaper
01-21-2015, 05:31 AM
Dear Ubisoft,


Unlock the gear.


Sincerely,
Everyone

doktrin
01-21-2015, 10:13 AM
another week and another useless club competition rolls around.

get your sh*t together ubisoft. this has been stale.

Ryan.leKaiz
01-21-2015, 12:15 PM
the chinese club earned 6 millions creed points in 40 hours, how the ruddy hell they make it?

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag322/ryanluong/ACUCheating_zpsbf50e400.jpg

If they're cheating, this Club competitions is totally BS
either if they are diligent of gaming, it takes years to other players to unlock these stupid legendary stuffs
It seems Ubisoft plan does work for some. I give this up

My_Treehawk
01-21-2015, 01:45 PM
the chinese club earned 6 millions creed points in 40 hours, how the ruddy hell they make it?

http://i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag322/ryanluong/ACUCheating_zpsbf50e400.jpg

If they're cheating, this Club competitions is totally BS
either if they are diligent of gaming, it takes years to other players to unlock these stupid legendary stuffs
It seems Ubisoft plan does work for some. I give this up

TBH - 6 million creed points in 40 hours is easy actually. With only 3/5th of our club active we scored over 9.5 million and on an inner club challenge were able to push out over 4.5 million in under 8 hours with most of the members pitching in. We had a score of over 6 million points while purposely avoiding the selected weekly missions. I will add that we do not use the recommended kill styles (the two bonus scoring types for each week) and we only do the featured missions about 1/2 of the time as we have discovered and developed other much higher scoring combinations that we train our members to use. Our club is Vociferous Unity (http://vociferousunity.guildlaunch.com) and you can check us out on our website if you are interested or look us up in the Clan Recruitment list here in the forums - we are on the official listing for PS4 clubs.

doktrin
02-03-2015, 04:18 PM
Came here to see if the farce that is gear lockouts is still ongoing. Was not disappointed.

Numbtoyou
02-03-2015, 09:50 PM
Came here to see if the farce that is gear lockouts is still ongoing. Was not disappointed.

Nothing to check. They've been clear that they will unlock the gear 2 weeks after the competition ends. Had I not already bought the game, I would have waited. Now I know to wait a year after Ubi games release, by then it *might* be patched, *might* have all the content available, but WILL be cheaper. I actually used to wait 6 months or so, but thought I should support the devs more, thus the launch day purchase here. My mistake. Now I know better, life goes on. Better games are available to be played/replayed, and when things are "done", my wife and I can play.

RADAR__4077
02-04-2015, 04:12 AM
Nothing to check. They've been clear that they will unlock the gear 2 weeks after the competition ends. Had I not already bought the game, I would have waited. Now I know to wait a year after Ubi games release, by then it *might* be patched, *might* have all the content available, but WILL be cheaper. I actually used to wait 6 months or so, but thought I should support the devs more, thus the launch day purchase here. My mistake. Now I know better, life goes on. Better games are available to be played/replayed, and when things are "done", my wife and I can play.

Yup. I've logged on a couple times to see what's unlocked and grab some collectibles, but that's it. Once I get the stuff I want I'll start the Paris stories. I want something to do with the gear :-\

Punishing the early bird is good business practice apparently.

Green_Reaper
02-04-2015, 06:10 AM
Yup. I've logged on a couple times to see what's unlocked and grab some collectibles, but that's it. Once I get the stuff I want I'll start the Paris stories. I want something to do with the gear :-\


Exactly what I do. :cool: I only wanted the Legendary Napoleonic set and Legendary Medieval set. Too bad it's probably going to take a few months for those.

The_Kiwi_
02-04-2015, 10:43 AM
Does anyone have full legendary gear?

Numbtoyou
02-04-2015, 06:30 PM
Does anyone have full legendary gear?

I *think* I have the full Legendary Musketeer set....I think it may be the only full legendary set avail. but I havn't played in weeks so I'm not sure off the top of my head.

RADAR__4077
02-04-2015, 06:36 PM
I have the sans-collettes and brigand sets, but I don't really use them.

I'm happy to see we are close to getting the medieval gear for when I want to go beast mode, but I really want the military set.

On topic. I was pleasantly surprised to see this thread reappear on the first page. I never liked the comps and now that they are no longer a requirement, I have all but stopped playing completely. I'm glad I'm not the only one. This idea of making us beta testers, then slowly feeding us single player content is total bull ****. I preordered. I trusted them and gave them my money in advance. Give me the **** paid for.

How can you justify making us wait this ungodly amount of time, when you will just hand it to the people who waited a year???

doktrin
02-04-2015, 07:58 PM
How can you justify making us wait this ungodly amount of time, when you will just hand it to the people who waited a year???

but club competitions are totally a feature guise!

those who buy the game a year after release won't have the pleasure of taking part in these glorious tests of grindsmanship!

just kidding. I'm an idiot for pre-ordering. I'll be picking up a second hand copy of ACV late next year.

DisbandedBox359
02-05-2015, 02:17 AM
Does anyone have full legendary gear?

I've got every legendary sans cullottes piece except the belt (the one week I come in 2nd place) so using the legendary phantom belt til they unlock it for me

Selian DeSang
02-05-2015, 04:07 AM
full legendary sets that are available for either purchase or to be won by in game means(rewards for multiplayer missions and such) phantom, brigand, musketeer. the sans cullottes set has since been unlocked via club comp.

they are on the medieval set now.

something that has happened to a few others, the bracer for the medieval set was unlocked without the two week waiting period. no one knows if this is a fluke or if they are reversing the policy. we will see.

GOODY_2_SHOES_23
03-08-2015, 10:18 PM
I don't mind the club comp, but when you see the counter go to all zero's...00h00m00sec and your club shows in first place, then you get a message that says you placed second...something is wrong!

guest-5P5X5mAv
03-18-2015, 08:06 AM
BUMP BUMP BUMP

Unlock Legendary gear you twats, i don't want to have to socialise with a bunch of 12 year olds on PSN, screaming at you when they cant even co-ordinate for ****. Club competitions are just plain stupid. I want to get Legendary gear and play through the damn story.

Is that so hard?

UNLOCK THE ****ING GEAR.

The_Kiwi_
03-18-2015, 09:06 AM
BUMP BUMP BUMP

Unlock Legendary gear you twats, i don't want to have to socialise with a bunch of 12 year olds on PSN, screaming at you when they cant even co-ordinate for ****. Club competitions are just plain stupid. I want to get Legendary gear and play through the damn story.

Is that so hard?

UNLOCK THE ****ING GEAR.

Why do you need legendary gear?
You can finish the game without it, and you don't need it for 100%
If you had a need, I'd understand your anger
But I can't see one

SixKeys
03-18-2015, 12:23 PM
Why do you need legendary gear?
You can finish the game without it, and you don't need it for 100%
If you had a need, I'd understand your anger
But I can't see one

Some of the legendary gear is aesthetically the best in the game. Even if you don't care about stats, they're essentially holding the coolest-looking gear ransom so you can't customize your assassin the way you want to.

Megas_Doux
03-18-2015, 03:45 PM
Some of the legendary gear is aesthetically the best in the game. Even if you don't care about stats, they're essentially holding the coolest-looking gear ransom so you can't customize your assassin the way you want to.

The Medieval and musketeers ones are really cool, mostly the latter one. I enjoy customizing my character like one from the middle ages or the XVII century.

The_Kiwi_
03-19-2015, 05:46 AM
That's not a need though, that's a want
So my point stands

guest-5P5X5mAv
03-19-2015, 11:22 AM
That's not a need though, that's a want
So my point stands


I want to get Legendary gear and play through the damn story. .

Your point doesn't stand. You never even made a point, dumbarse. Learn to read before being a *****. Never said i needed the gear, you made that presumption by yourself. I said i want it, as does everyone who visits these forums (subject to Poll results), so go back to niche batty club, troll.

The_Kiwi_
03-19-2015, 11:28 AM
Your point doesn't stand. You never even made a point, dumbarse. Learn to read before being a *****. Never said i needed the gear, you made that presumption by yourself. I said i want it, as does everyone who visits these forums (subject to Poll results), so go back to niche batty club, troll.

Your attitude speaks otherwise
I'm not going to debate further with you as your logic and attitude on this forum are both bad

Crusism
03-18-2018, 05:43 PM
Sorry Ubisoft but I'm necro-ing this; the fact that you've abandoned AC: Unity was already bad enough, but it's worse if you can't even release it as a complete game with aesthetically-pleasing elements being locked out to those with very little access to Internet.

It'll just take a small patch; it won't hurt.


Your point doesn't stand. You never even made a point, dumbarse. Learn to read before being a *****. Never said i needed the gear, you made that presumption by yourself. I said i want it, as does everyone who visits these forums (subject to Poll results), so go back to niche batty club, troll.


Your attitude speaks otherwise
I'm not going to debate further with you as your logic and attitude on this forum are both bad

Jeez, you two need to relax: personally attacking each other isn't pushing forward any point.