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Ziiimmie
01-12-2015, 07:15 AM
I know about AC:Victory but for the game after it i would love for a female character would be even more bad-*** if its set in Feudal Japan (you know the location us fans have been begging for)

Just a suggestion Ubisoft ;);););););););)

Private Plasma
01-12-2015, 07:21 AM
Even better if you could choose your gender and you can switch anytime so if you get sick of a male you change to a female without making a new game and so forth

iancreed
01-12-2015, 07:22 AM
id love to see a character with actual parents you know

Ziiimmie
01-12-2015, 07:25 AM
Even better if you could choose your gender and you can switch anytime so if you get sick of a male you change to a female without making a new game and so forth

naaaaaaaah man what do you mean the whole thing about AC was that we are following MEMORY it would be silly to have that implemented tusk tusk

Private Plasma
01-12-2015, 07:43 AM
naaaaaaaah man what do you mean the whole thing about AC was that we are following MEMORY it would be silly to have that implemented tusk tusk

I think it would be nice to have an Assassin's Creed without memory, I hate it when I leave the game and go into the real world for a cutscene plus there is someone guiding you and telling you what to do like in Unity you have the lady person but I would like something else

RuNfAtBoYrUn740
01-12-2015, 02:56 PM
My response to this is the same with all requests like this.

As long as it makes sense I really don't care.

If someone requested we play a Trinidadian slave during the Third Crusade, I'd be against it, because it doesn't make sense with the time period.

If someone requested we play a Trinidadian slave during the Golden Age of Piracy, I'd be for it. It makes sense and could add a cool dynamic.

So in short, if it makes sense then go for it.

melbye82
01-12-2015, 03:11 PM
I don't care about gender or race, as long as they finish the game

Aphex_Tim
01-12-2015, 03:14 PM
Yes to a female protagonist; No to Feudal Japan.

EmptyCrustacean
01-12-2015, 03:38 PM
naaaaaaaah man what do you mean the whole thing about AC was that we are following MEMORY it would be silly to have that implemented tusk tusk

Yep, to be able to switch genders and races during the course of the game defeats the entire purpose of ‘memory simulation’.


I think it would be nice to have an Assassin's Creed without memory, I hate it when I leave the game and go into the real world for a cutscene plus there is someone guiding you and telling you what to do like in Unity you have the lady person but I would like something else

I hope Ubisoft aren’t reading this. They have pandered to the newbies and their demands to get rid of the MD story line for the last few games. Please let us die-hard AC fans retain the last bit of MD context we have left!


My response to this is the same with all requests like this.

As long as it makes sense I really don't care.

If someone requested we play a Trinidadian slave during the Third Crusade, I'd be against it, because it doesn't make sense with the time period.

If someone requested we play a Trinidadian slave during the Golden Age of Piracy, I'd be for it. It makes sense and could add a cool dynamic.

So in short, if it makes sense then go for it.

Ah, that old “realism” excuse again. It’s interesting that white men are allowed to have their little power fantasies in all its sci-FICTION goodness but as soon as women or people of colour ask the same we then have to start a discussion about “realism”. Although your ‘Golden Age of Piracy’ comment reminds me that Black Flag was the PERFECT opportunity to have a black protagonist and it was missed. Adewale is a far more interesting character than Edward and he would have been a more appropriate choice since, unlike Edward, he was an actual Assassin! It would have been great to see a full-blown game showing Adewale’s transition from slave to pirate to Assassin. The game play would have been better because there would have been more emphasis on stealth. For instance, during the camp raid missions in the Freedom Cry DLC, stealth is encouraged because if the guards spot you they’ll start shooting the slaves. In Black Flag there was no benefit to playing stealthily when you could take out 20 odd guys in 2 minutes with no consequences once you sabotage the alarm bell.

We had the opportunity to have a black hero for the main game – and they relegated him to the side-kick role so please don’t use the ‘realism’ argument. It’s been established on multiple occasions that it’s a laughable argument when applied to a game like Assassin’s Creed – which is why this franchise tends to come under more criticism for its consistent shunning of anybody that isn’t a white male as opposed to a game like GTA.

Megas_Doux
01-12-2015, 03:57 PM
Yes to a female protagonist; No to Feudal Japan.

This!

I-Like-Pie45
01-12-2015, 04:02 PM
Like Indians and pirates, women can't be real assassins

dargor5
01-12-2015, 04:20 PM
Yep, to be able to switch genders and races during the course of the game defeats the entire purpose of ‘memory simulation’.



I hope Ubisoft aren’t reading this. They have pandered to the newbies and their demands to get rid of the MD story line for the last few games. Please let us die-hard AC fans retain the last bit of MD context we have left!



Ah, that old “realism” excuse again. It’s interesting that white men are allowed to have their little power fantasies in all its sci-FICTION goodness but as soon as women or people of colour ask the same we then have to start a discussion about “realism”. Although your ‘Golden Age of Piracy’ comment reminds me that Black Flag was the PERFECT opportunity to have a black protagonist and it was missed. Adewale is a far more interesting character than Edward and he would have been a more appropriate choice since, unlike Edward, he was an actual Assassin! It would have been great to see a full-blown game showing Adewale’s transition from slave to pirate to Assassin. The game play would have been better because there would have been more emphasis on stealth. For instance, during the camp raid missions in the Freedom Cry DLC, stealth is encouraged because if the guards spot you they’ll start shooting the slaves. In Black Flag there was no benefit to playing stealthily when you could take out 20 odd guys in 2 minutes with no consequences once you sabotage the alarm bell.

We had the opportunity to have a black hero for the main game – and they relegated him to the side-kick role so please don’t use the ‘realism’ argument. It’s been established on multiple occasions that it’s a laughable argument when applied to a game like Assassin’s Creed – which is why this franchise tends to come under more criticism for its consistent shunning of anybody that isn’t a white male as opposed to a game like GTA.

Im an AC fan since AC1 and I hate modern day history, is just there to pull you out of the immersion from been on another time period. My siggestion would not be to get rid of it but make it optional. As the homestead missions on AC3 so for those who are really interested can still get it and not bother the rest of us.

As for that "excuse for realism" yes this games tries to make some degree of realism, it even has real historical figures and events so why would they want to introduce people that were not there, if I see a latino in an AC that is in the 18th century I'd be furious because it just doesnt go (Im latino btw) it would be out of place.
Why does everything HAS to cater to minorities? Im ok with a female assassin as long as it makes sense, like Aveline, to me she was very well done.

You mentioned GTA? FYI GTA is happening in the present were we have more diversity of people than before

m4r-k7
01-12-2015, 04:37 PM
Why is there so much obsession over getting a female lead? Yes we haven't had one yet but I don't want Ubisoft making a female lead just because everyone wants it. I want them to make a female lead because of story reasons, gameplay reasons etc

I don't want an oversexualised female lead like Lara in Tomb Raider who has orgasms everytime she gets injured. If Ubisoft make a female lead just because people want it, it will probably be terrible.

It doesn't matter what gender the lead is, that won't make it a better game. I just want Ubisoft to focus on creating a good story, and if they have a good story focused around a female lead then by all means I want them to do it. I just don't want them doing it for the sake of it.

EmptyCrustacean
01-12-2015, 04:41 PM
Im an AC fan since AC1 and I hate modern day history, is just there to pull you out of the immersion from been on another time period. My siggestion would not be to get rid of it but make it optional. As the homestead missions on AC3 so for those who are really interested can still get it and not bother the rest of us.

As for that "excuse for realism" yes this games tries to make some degree of realism, it even has real historical figures and events so why would they want to introduce people that were not there, if I see a latino in an AC that is in the 18th century I'd be furious because it just doesnt go (Im latino btw) it would be out of place.
Why does everything HAS to cater to minorities? Im ok with a female assassin as long as it makes sense, like Aveline, to me she was very well done.

You mentioned GTA? FYI GTA is happening in the present were we have more diversity of people than before

Being Latino does not give you some monolopy on deciding when ethnic minorities should be included. The problem with the whole "realism" aspect is that you seem to be picking and choosing what should be realistic and what should not. In real life, Edward can't take on 40 guards at once as they would all attack at once, not wait to attack one by one so he can counter. That's not realistic but it's to make the player feel like he is a badass. It's a power fantasy. FANTASY. And Aveline was horribly done lol

Oh, and as for your 'historical figures' argument? AC introduces people that were not there all the time. I'm pretty sure Leonardo Davinci didn't meet a young a Italian casanova called Ezio and start crafting weapons for him. Napoleon was there in France... but he didn't have a British accent (I've explained the continuity error with the whole Animus thing countless times). Hitler killed himself but in Quentin Tarantino's Inglorious Basterds he was taken down by a bunch of avenging Jews - power FANTASY.

You've conveniently ignored my points about Adewale.

Lastly, GTA is about masculinity; it is a game where masculinity is a character in itself. A female protagonist wouldn't work especially considering the activities that have been the staple of the franchise like going to strip clubs. It is also made by (IMO) deeply misogynistic developers so I want (not expect) a female lead anyway.

Megas_Doux
01-12-2015, 04:48 PM
Lastly, GTA is about masculinity; it is a game where masculinity is a character in itself. A female protagonist wouldn't work especially considering the activities that have been the staple of the franchise like going to strip clubs. It is also made by (IMO) deeply misogynistic developers so I want (not expect) a female lead anyway.

Odd, GTA 3´s main antagonist is a woman..........

Catalina is a reckless and extremely aggressive psychotic character that leads the Colombian cartel, terrorizing Liberty city in the process.....

Namikaze_17
01-12-2015, 04:51 PM
a female character

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/agree-nod.gif


Feudal Japan

https://31.media.tumblr.com/4f473dca404f3c0de3e92941ccba3505/tumblr_nh2nbc8vgS1u4cfhoo1_500.gif


Like Indians and pirates, women can't be real assassins

For a bear, you sometimes make good points... :rolleyes:

ze_topazio
01-12-2015, 05:12 PM
Odd, GTA 3´s main antagonist is a woman..........

Catalina is a reckless and extremely aggressive psychotic character that leads the Colombian cartel, terrorizing Liberty city in the process.....

I see people screaming of equality all the time but when female or minorities characters are not portrayed as the embodiment of perfection, preferably being oppressed by evil white males, is a scandal and accusations of racism and misogyny start flying around, because white dudes killing and robbing, the possibility of killing every single male character on the map, drug dealers, corrupt cops and politicians, crazy Christians, etc... is totally fine.
Females and minorities portrayed in the same way, the reality of prostitution, the possibility of killing female npcs must be forbidden because that's not how equality supposedly works, only white dudes can be evil and corrupt.

EmptyCrustacean
01-12-2015, 05:23 PM
Odd, GTA 3´s main antagonist is a woman...

Yes, women have been the main antagonists in the GTA franchise <metaphorical joke>

And I said PRO-tagonist AKA the person the player actually gets to play as and relate with.

wvstolzing
01-12-2015, 05:25 PM
They might do this eventually, if only to help with the marketing, "... see, the franchise is fresh, and innovative, and blabla".

(ps. I wouldn't draw any examples from the GTA universe(s), where everyone is a hypocrite, and either has been, or is, or is about to become a psychotic murderer. Seriously, though -- having been a fan since GTA3, I get the series' satire, and wacky juvenile humor; but is there no one or nothing in that universe that's not shallow, stupid, selfish, psychotic, etc.? I really don't want to see GTA become a parody of itself eventually.)

EmptyCrustacean
01-12-2015, 05:29 PM
I see people screaming of equality all the time but when female or minorities characters are not portrayed as the embodiment of perfection, preferably being oppressed by evil white males, is a scandal and accusations of racism and misogyny start flying around, because white dudes killing and robbing, the possibility of killing every single male character on the map, drug dealers, corrupt cops and politicians, crazy Christians, etc... is totally fine.
Females and minorities portrayed in the same way, the reality of prostitution, the possibility of killing female npcs must be forbidden because that's not how equality supposedly works, only white dudes can be evil and corrupt.

Rubbish. The difference is white males are portrayed as the good guys too and usually as the lead so we are expected to view everything through their eyes. They get all the best roles in film, television and gaming and get to be a range of fully realised, fleshed out characters. For example, Exodus: God and Kings is a film that tries to say the ancient Egyptians are white, casting white characters in all the main royalty roles whilst casting blacks and Arabs as slaves, theives and Assassins. If you're a black man on TV and film you're relegated to playing criminals, thugs, bad guy and little else. If you're a black woman on TV you're relegated to the 'suffering black women' trope that has seen the likes of Halle Berry and Lupita N'yongo win Oscars.

Megas_Doux
01-12-2015, 05:43 PM
Yes, women have been the main antagonists in the GTA franchise <metaphorical joke>

And I said PRO-tagonist AKA the person the player actually gets to play as and relate with.

You did not get, so here I go again....

GTA protagonists are not exactly good people, they are CRIMINALS, Catalina is a criminal too, why cant a character like Catalina be the main protagonist??????? You said "female protagonist wouldn't work especially considering the activities that have been the staple of the franchise like going to strip clubs " Well women go to strips clubs too..........

My point is, if they were able to create a female antagonist in the GTA world, why not a female protagonist?

wvstolzing
01-12-2015, 05:46 PM
Going to strip clubs isn't a staple of GTA; it's a pretty pointless activity, and the earlier games didn't have it at all.
Car chases, and shootouts, and heavy-handed satire is.

ze_topazio
01-12-2015, 06:05 PM
Rubbish. The difference is white males are portrayed as the good guys too and usually as the lead so we are expected to view everything through their eyes. They get all the best roles in film, television and gaming and get to be a range of fully realised, fleshed out characters. For example, Exodus: God and Kings is a film that tries to say the ancient Egyptians are white, casting white characters in all the main royalty roles whilst casting blacks and Arabs as slaves, theives and Assassins. If you're a black man on TV and film you're relegated to playing criminals, thugs, bad guy and little else. If you're a black woman on TV you're relegated to the 'suffering black women' trope that has seen the likes of Halle Berry and Lupita N'yongo win Oscars.

You're only taking in consideration fictional works from white majority countries, fictional works from other parts of the world do the same, a recent Japanese movie about ancient Rome uses only Asian actors and actresses, foreign characters in anime/manga are either racist idiots or harmless walking stereotypes, GTA does stereotypical Italian mobsters or stereotypical rednecks, nobody bats an eye, GTA does stereotypical black gangstas, everybody goes nuts with accusations of racism and I can see from a mile that if GTA had a female main character every feminist out there would accuse them of trying to pass the idea the women are evil or whatever.
I see tons of good female and black characters in tv and movies, handpicking the bad ones and ignoring the good ones ain't fair, I can see the lack of variety in video games, but American movies and tv series have lots of variety, of course the majority is white, but how about taking in consideration that America is a white majority country?!

Assassin_M
01-12-2015, 06:10 PM
I would love a female protagonist. I just finished First Light and I liked Fetch a lot. I don't think there's ever a problem to a female protagonist in an AC game. Sure, some dude bros will be turned off but business is a risk anyways.

That said, I wont pick up a pitch fork and DEMAND a female protagonist.

Shahkulu101
01-12-2015, 06:12 PM
I would like a female protagonist, it would be refreshing and they could do something different and interesting with the narrative.

dargor5
01-12-2015, 06:25 PM
Being Latino does not give you some monolopy on deciding when ethnic minorities should be included. The problem with the whole "realism" aspect is that you seem to be picking and choosing what should be realistic and what should not. In real life, Edward can't take on 40 guards at once as they would all attack at once, not wait to attack one by one so he can counter. That's not realistic but it's to make the player feel like he is a badass. It's a power fantasy. FANTASY. And Aveline was horribly done lol

Oh, and as for your 'historical figures' argument? AC introduces people that were not there all the time. I'm pretty sure Leonardo Davinci didn't meet a young a Italian casanova called Ezio and start crafting weapons for him. Napoleon was there in France... but he didn't have a British accent (I've explained the continuity error with the whole Animus thing countless times). Hitler killed himself but in Quentin Tarantino's Inglorious Basterds he was taken down by a bunch of avenging Jews - power FANTASY.

You've conveniently ignored my points about Adewale.

Lastly, GTA is about masculinity; it is a game where masculinity is a character in itself. A female protagonist wouldn't work especially considering the activities that have been the staple of the franchise like going to strip clubs. It is also made by (IMO) deeply misogynistic developers so I want (not expect) a female lead anyway.

Yes but at least the tone is maintained. It is a power fantasy in all means. But the tone and atmosphere of the scene is also set by people, is like having clowns on a funeral.
People talking like this about minorities is what creates the problems we have nowdays.
In America a withe cop shoots an African American and is a huge deal, but if it was the other way around no one pays atention to it.

And why is Aveline a bad character? I like the personas optiom, gives another level to the game. Also how guards will look the other way when she is dressed as the Lady, is more close to reality than the blending mechanic of the other ACs

rrebe
01-12-2015, 06:34 PM
I don't care about the gender/race/etc of the character as long as it's a good and well made character in an interesting story.

aL_____eX
01-12-2015, 06:36 PM
I don't care about the gender/race/etc of the character as long as it's a good and well made character in an interesting story.
https://38.media.tumblr.com/8005740b9ba5d853404759af46a9abb2/tumblr_ms7lk7kgek1s8l4eao1_500.gif

Kaschra
01-12-2015, 06:38 PM
Yes, I'd love to see a female protagonist.

GunnerGalactico
01-12-2015, 07:14 PM
I would like to have another female protagonist, other than Aveline.

Fatal-Feit
01-12-2015, 07:16 PM
Sure, why not? Personally, I could go either way, but I know there are many women fans out there who'd love to play a protagonist of their own gender.

EmptyCrustacean
01-12-2015, 08:20 PM
You did not get, so here I go again.... GTA protagonists are not exactly good people, they are CRIMINALS,

No, YOU don't get it so let me explain this to you again: Women can't be the main protagonists because GTA is a male power fantasy. It's a man's world. Cars, strip clubs, guns, women - these are all things associated with masculinity. It's all about celebrating being a man in control and power over all those things, including women, so to have a female protagonist defeats the entire appeal of the game. The developers even said so themselves: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-09-10-rockstars-houser-explains-lack-of-female-protagonist-in-gta-v All of the characters in GTA are bad but the difference is we get to play as the male ones so they're more fleshed out and complex in ways that deepen their characters. They drive the story. We get to care and emphathise with characters like TREVOR for heaven's sake. We don't get that with strippers like Nikki, or Michael's wife Amanda or even Catalina because we never get to PLAY AS THEM. We never see things from their perspective. They are either obstacles/objects in the way or to be used. Yes, the women are as bad as the men but they're also women so R* can't have them as the main protagonists because this is a male power fantasy game. When women in GTA are not stupid bimbos to be laughed at, they're mere pleasure givers. If you have to spend money to have sex with them, no big deal just run her over and get back your money back lol. If you need your health boosted, charm a stripper and get her to give you a booty call every so often. That is the role of a woman in GTA. It is a pro masculinity, anti femininity game. You've listed one, count it, ONE female character who had the potential to be a protagonist... and she wasn't. Says it all really. So you shouldn't asking that question to me as if I made the game, you should be posing it to R* who have yet to do a female protagonist and thus continue to prove my point. This in turn answers your next question:


My point is, if they were able to create a female antagonist in the GTA world, why not a female protagonist?

Moving on...


You said "female protagonist wouldn't work especially considering the activities that have been the staple of the franchise like going to strip clubs " Well women go to strips clubs too..........

Yes, they go to male strip clubs. The men can't be sex objects for the women to sit back and enjoy - that shatters the 'man's world'/'male power fantasy' illusion. R* will not ask their largely straight male fanbase to sit back while some guy his grinding his meat and two veg over their character lol

EmptyCrustacean
01-12-2015, 08:57 PM
Yes but at least the tone is maintained. It is a power fantasy in all means. But the tone and atmosphere of the scene is also set by people, is like having clowns on a funeral.
People talking like this about minorities is what creates the problems we have nowdays.
In America a withe cop shoots an African American and is a huge deal, but if it was the other way around no one pays atention to it.

And why is Aveline a bad character? I like the personas optiom, gives another level to the game. Also how guards will look the other way when she is dressed as the Lady, is more close to reality than the blending mechanic of the other ACs

Tone, as you described with your 'clowns at a funeral' quip, is about dark/humour etc. It is not dictated by race and gender but by the story itself. And you continue to ignore my point about Adewale. Re: Aveline - she was dull, lifeless and one note. Whilst I appreciate that she was already an Assassin and all about the creed when we met her it would have been nice to see some other qualities that would have fleshed out her character and make her human, as opposed to a mere entity.

Re the lady persona being 'realistic' lol wut? You mean a black woman in 1700s France is going to get guards to look the other way just because she's dressed as a Lady rather than being suspicious she's in nice clothes? LOL The lady persona wasn't necessary at all. In Unity, you have yellow indicators all over the place. You avoid that by scaling the roof tops. Ubisoft could have done the same for Aveline if they were worried about having to explain a free black woman in France during the 1700s but no, they became so hung up on the fact that she was a black woman that they let it stop them from being creative. The different personas did nothing but remind us that Aveline is a black woman.

This is going off-topic so if you would like to PM me showing examples where a black police officer has racially profiled a group of white kids and shot them unarmed/minding their own business whilst eating a pack of Skittles be my guest.

AssassinHMS
01-12-2015, 09:32 PM
Nope, I prefer male protagonists.

But, if there's ever an AC game set in Feudal Japan (probably just to put a stop to all the whining) I wouldn't mind at all if the protagonist was female as it would likely ease the whole "we need more female Assassins" gibberish - so, basically, two birds with one stone.

dargor5
01-12-2015, 09:48 PM
Tone, as you described with your 'clowns at a funeral' quip, is about dark/humour etc. It is not dictated by race and gender but by the story itself. And you continue to ignore my point about Adewale. Re: Aveline - she was dull, lifeless and one note. Whilst I appreciate that she was already an Assassin and all about the creed when we met her it would have been nice to see some other qualities that would have fleshed out her character and make her human, as opposed to a mere entity.

Re the lady persona being 'realistic' lol wut? You mean a black woman in 1700s France is going to get guards to look the other way just because she's dressed as a Lady rather than being suspicious she's in nice clothes? LOL The lady persona wasn't necessary at all. In Unity, you have yellow indicators all over the place. You avoid that by scaling the roof tops. Ubisoft could have done the same for Aveline if they were worried about having to explain a free black woman in France during the 1700s but no, they became so hung up on the fact that she was a black woman that they let it stop them from being creative. The different personas did nothing but remind us that Aveline is a black woman.

This is going off-topic so if you would like to PM me showing examples where a black police officer has racially profiled a group of white kids and shot them unarmed/minding their own business whilst eating a pack of Skittles be my guest.

Nope Im not ignoring your Adewale point. Even he says he says to Edward he rather be quartermaster because the crew will not accept him as captain. Thats a sad part of human history but it is what happened.
I wont debate any more wih you since I know how that is going to end. Where I come frome there are no "minorities" and there are a lot of white people, we use the word black in spanish to refer to an African American in my country and is never taken as badly as in US, is like saying "dude" for most of us. I feel you are a minority as long as you feel like one, sorry if Im offending you or whatever you are but I grew up in a place were we are all the same no one is a minority, we are all humans (except for politicians, reason why I had to leave)

Btw can you explain to me why is Adewale's crew in Freedom Cry is all black?

SpiritOfNevaeh
01-12-2015, 10:39 PM
I don't care about the gender/race/etc of the character as long as it's a good and well made character in an interesting story.

Thank! You!

ShootRawGuy
01-12-2015, 10:46 PM
Behind every great man there's a great woman

EmptyCrustacean
01-13-2015, 12:20 AM
Nope Im not ignoring your Adewale point. Even he says he says to Edward he rather be quartermaster because the crew will not accept him as captain. Thats a sad part of human history but it is what happened.

Nope, you mean the writers said that, not Adewale himself as he is not real which leads me to my next point. If you're talking about 'realistically' then Edward would have been racist too and would not have had a black guy as his second in command but, of course, we can't make Edward racist because he's our protagonist who we project ourselves on to and we need to make white liberals today feel like they wouldn't have been racist at that time. Or...

The writers simply could have got round that by a) making it so that Edward would not be riding with racist scum bags b) make it so that Adewale's crew is primarily black Africans. After all, your argument is operating on the assumption that his entire crew must be white.

Speak of the devil, I'm playing Rogue right now and I've just killed Adewale. So Ubisoft killed off one of their two black protagonists and turned him into an antagonist at the same time lol


I wont debate any more wih you since I know how that is going to end. Where I come frome there are no "minorities" and there are a lot of white people, we use the word black in spanish to refer to an African American in my country and is never taken as badly as in US, is like saying "dude" for most of us. I feel you are a minority as long as you feel like one, sorry if Im offending you or whatever you are but I grew up in a place were we are all the same no one is a minority, we are all humans (except for politicians, reason why I had to leave)

lol wut? And I hope you don't think I'm American...

Mr.Black24
01-13-2015, 02:02 AM
I want but won't ever demand a female character.

But after 6 dudes and one girl as a main playable character, it feels like a sausage fest and I want to change it up. i think it would create an new interesting story and gameplay. I mean when you were Aveline, in lady persona, you can charm dudes to their deaths. Sneaky, I like it, it was a nice refreshing change.

RuNfAtBoYrUn740
01-13-2015, 02:03 AM
Yep, to be able to switch genders and races during the course of the game defeats the entire purpose of ‘memory simulation’.



I hope Ubisoft aren’t reading this. They have pandered to the newbies and their demands to get rid of the MD story line for the last few games. Please let us die-hard AC fans retain the last bit of MD context we have left!



Ah, that old “realism” excuse again. It’s interesting that white men are allowed to have their little power fantasies in all its sci-FICTION goodness but as soon as women or people of colour ask the same we then have to start a discussion about “realism”. Although your ‘Golden Age of Piracy’ comment reminds me that Black Flag was the PERFECT opportunity to have a black protagonist and it was missed. Adewale is a far more interesting character than Edward and he would have been a more appropriate choice since, unlike Edward, he was an actual Assassin! It would have been great to see a full-blown game showing Adewale’s transition from slave to pirate to Assassin. The game play would have been better because there would have been more emphasis on stealth. For instance, during the camp raid missions in the Freedom Cry DLC, stealth is encouraged because if the guards spot you they’ll start shooting the slaves. In Black Flag there was no benefit to playing stealthily when you could take out 20 odd guys in 2 minutes with no consequences once you sabotage the alarm bell.

We had the opportunity to have a black hero for the main game – and they relegated him to the side-kick role so please don’t use the ‘realism’ argument. It’s been established on multiple occasions that it’s a laughable argument when applied to a game like Assassin’s Creed – which is why this franchise tends to come under more criticism for its consistent shunning of anybody that isn’t a white male as opposed to a game like GTA.


I knew I'd get a reply like this. You can't ever make a comment about race at all these days. Even if what you said isn't racist in the slightest you get these people screaming 'white power fantasy!'

I said I'd be all for a game in the Golden Age of Piracy with a black slave. I said I would want that.

I don't want a minority protagonist just for the sake of having a minority protagonist. I want one because it makes sense. I want it to be integrated into the story. It can influence certain themes. Otherwise it'll just feel like keeping people like you quiet for a little while.

Stop trying to turn a perfectly neutral comment into a 'white power fantasy' comment so you can achieve your little forum crusade here.

RuNfAtBoYrUn740
01-13-2015, 02:05 AM
Thank! You!

lol funny I said the exact same thing and I had some guy go on a 'white power fantasy' crusade on me.

JamesFaith007
01-13-2015, 02:36 AM
lol funny I said the exact same thing and I had some guy go on a 'white power fantasy' crusade on me.

In fact it is kinda funny.

When I saw:


My response to this is the same with all requests like this.

If someone requested we play a Trinidadian slave during the Third Crusade, I'd be against it, because it doesn't make sense with the time period.

If someone requested we play a Trinidadian slave during the Golden Age of Piracy, I'd be for it. It makes sense and could add a cool dynamic.


My first thought was that Trinidad was discovered for Europe centuries after end of Third crusade. When I checked dates, it is 306 years difference, because Third crusade was 1189-1192 and Trinidad was discovered by Columbus in 1498.

But his first reaction was rant about "white power fantasy". :confused:

ItchyBigd93
01-13-2015, 02:47 AM
Yep, to be able to switch genders and races during the course of the game defeats the entire purpose of ‘memory simulation’.



I hope Ubisoft aren’t reading this. They have pandered to the newbies and their demands to get rid of the MD story line for the last few games. Please let us die-hard AC fans retain the last bit of MD context we have left!



Ah, that old “realism” excuse again. It’s interesting that white men are allowed to have their little power fantasies in all its sci-FICTION goodness but as soon as women or people of colour ask the same we then have to start a discussion about “realism”. Although your ‘Golden Age of Piracy’ comment reminds me that Black Flag was the PERFECT opportunity to have a black protagonist and it was missed. Adewale is a far more interesting character than Edward and he would have been a more appropriate choice since, unlike Edward, he was an actual Assassin! It would have been great to see a full-blown game showing Adewale’s transition from slave to pirate to Assassin. The game play would have been better because there would have been more emphasis on stealth. For instance, during the camp raid missions in the Freedom Cry DLC, stealth is encouraged because if the guards spot you they’ll start shooting the slaves. In Black Flag there was no benefit to playing stealthily when you could take out 20 odd guys in 2 minutes with no consequences once you sabotage the alarm bell.

We had the opportunity to have a black hero for the main game – and they relegated him to the side-kick role so please don’t use the ‘realism’ argument. It’s been established on multiple occasions that it’s a laughable argument when applied to a game like Assassin’s Creed – which is why this franchise tends to come under more criticism for its consistent shunning of anybody that isn’t a white male as opposed to a game like GTA.


You can't be serious. I get so sick of you morons touting that Ubisoft or any other gaming company is sexist, racist or any other "ism" you can think of simply because you weren't pandered to. Go cry me a river please. I really have never seen anything so pathetic as someone complaining about equality in video games and then sitting here bashing white people simply because of the skin of their color. It's extremely petty and very obnoxious. You're an SJW in it's purest form.

EmptyCrustacean
01-13-2015, 03:02 AM
I knew I'd get a reply like this. You can't ever make a comment about race at all these days. Even if what you said isn't racist in the slightest you get these people screaming 'white power fantasy!'

Nobody has called you racist so calm down. Your whole 'you can't make a comment about race these days' comes from an obvious chip on your shoulder.
You saw 'white male power fantasy' line, ran with it and took it out of context.The power fantasy is something the AC franchise takes advantage of in order for Ubisoft to market to their fanbase. Just like 'Gangsta Rap' is a 'black male power fantasy' and is marketed in a way to appeal to young black men. 'White male power fantasy' is an observation, not a critcism. The critcism is directed towards the fact that women and people of colour rarely get to have their power fantasies too.


I said I'd be all for a game in the Golden Age of Piracy with a black slave. I said I would want that.

We had that opportunity and Ubisoft didn't do it. Now why is that? Additionally, why is it that when people like yourself talk about black people in the AC franchise they instantly go to the slave trade? Can we not explore black protagonists pre-slavery? You do know that black people weren't always slaves to white people, right? Or can we not have any black characters in the game unless they're directly associated with white people in one way or another?


I don't want a minority protagonist just for the sake of having a minority protagonist. I want one because it makes sense. I want it to be integrated into the story. It can influence certain themes. Otherwise it'll just feel like keeping people like you quiet for a little while.

Again, we had the opportunity do that and Ubisoft chose not to in order to satisfy people like you.


Stop trying to turn a perfectly neutral comment into a 'white power fantasy' comment so you can achieve your little forum crusade here.

Whatever.

rprkjj
01-13-2015, 03:24 AM
Nobody has called you racist so calm down. Your whole 'you can't make a comment about race these days' comes from an obvious chip on your shoulder.
You saw 'white male power fantasy' line, ran with it and took it out of context.The power fantasy is something the AC franchise takes advantage of in order for Ubisoft to market to their fanbase. Just like 'Gangsta Rap' is a 'black male power fantasy' and is marketed in a way to appeal to young black men. 'White male power fantasy' is an observation, not a critcism. The critcism is directed towards the fact that women and people of colour rarely get to have their power fantasies too.



We had that opportunity and Ubisoft didn't do it. Now why is that? Additionally, why is it that when people like yourself talk about black people in the AC franchise they instantly go to the slave trade? Can we not explore black protagonists pre-slavery? You do know that black people weren't always slaves to white people, right? Or can we not have any black characters in the game unless they're directly associated with white people in one way or another?



Again, we had the opportunity do that and Ubisoft chose not to in order to satisfy people like you.



Whatever.

Have you considered the fact that some people don't need the protagonist to look exactly like them to identify with them? Are there seriously women who can't identify with Edward just because he has a ****? People are more than their demographics. Considering we're all of the same species, there are things we can relate to in a character that doesn't have to involve their sexuality, gender or race. I get it, you want minorities to have a character so shallow the only way they can project themselves onto them is by sharing ultimately arbitrary traits. That's the only way they can have a shred of empathy for a character, obviously. I also love how you use gangsta rap, a non-gender/race exclusive genre of music that many different people listen to, as an example of a black male power fantasy and then say that minorities don't have enough power fantasies.

Apart from that, you're making a ton of assumptions based off literally nothing.

JamesFaith007
01-13-2015, 03:29 AM
We had that opportunity and Ubisoft didn't do it. Now why is that?


Because main hero was from beginning planned as father of Haytham Kenway and black father would look forced as hell?

But easy evident answer obviously not enough for you.

RuNfAtBoYrUn740
01-13-2015, 03:55 AM
Nobody has called you racist so calm down. Your whole 'you can't make a comment about race these days' comes from an obvious chip on your shoulder.
You saw 'white male power fantasy' line, ran with it and took it out of context.The power fantasy is something the AC franchise takes advantage of in order for Ubisoft to market to their fanbase. Just like 'Gangsta Rap' is a 'black male power fantasy' and is marketed in a way to appeal to young black men. 'White male power fantasy' is an observation, not a critcism. The critcism is directed towards the fact that women and people of colour rarely get to have their power fantasies too.



We had that opportunity and Ubisoft didn't do it. Now why is that? Additionally, why is it that when people like yourself talk about black people in the AC franchise they instantly go to the slave trade? Can we not explore black protagonists pre-slavery? You do know that black people weren't always slaves to white people, right? Or can we not have any black characters in the game unless they're directly associated with white people in one way or another?



Again, we had the opportunity do that and Ubisoft chose not to in order to satisfy people like you.



Whatever.

If I mentioned that I want a minority protagonist if it makes sense and ended it there this conversation we're having probably wouldn't exist. The moment I mention a 'black slave' you start going on about white power fantasy. That's what I meant when I said 'you can't talk about race at all these days'.

I was using Adewale as an example who was... you know... a black slave. Black people during the Golden Age of Piracy were treated like slaves. This is mentioned multiple times in the game. It's called sticking to history. Again you're making the baseless assumption that I always refer to slavery when I discuss black characters in AC. It's a baseless claim so I won't bother, but it's silly nonetheless.

Obviously black people weren't always slaves to white people. We're talking about the Golden Age of Piracy though. I was using Adewale as an example. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

'Again, we had the opportunity do that and Ubisoft chose not to in order to satisfy people like you.'. There is a stand alone game called Freedom Cry. You should look it up sometime.

Again. Blowing things out of proportion for no good reason. I don't care what type of protagonist we get. Hell we could play as an insect for all I care. I just want it to make sense. It doesn't need to feel forced.

EmptyCrustacean
01-13-2015, 04:26 AM
Have you considered the fact that some people don't need the protagonist to look exactly like them to identify with them? Are there seriously women who can't identify with Edward just because he has a ****? People are more than their demographics. Considering we're all of the same species, there are things we can relate to in a character that doesn't have to involve their sexuality, gender or race. I get it, you want minorities to have a character so shallow the only way they can project themselves onto them is by sharing ultimately arbitrary traits. That's the only way they can have a shred of empathy for a character, obviously. I also love how you use gangsta rap, a non-gender/race exclusive genre of music that many different people listen to, as an example of a black male power fantasy and then say that minorities don't have enough power fantasies.

Of course I can. I am expected everyday to relate with white male leads but the same is never asked from white male audiences which is why most leading roles in entertainment is 'white male'. Which is why "characters" like Aveline is relegated to a PS Vita DLC. Even now when anyone suggests a black or female lead for AC we get swarm of people using excuses like "realism!", "natural!" because they are no longer emotionally identifying with the character. They now have to start talking about real life elements because the 'fantasy' is shattered whereas 'realism' never was a problem before when Ezio was taking on 50 odd guards at age 60. So don't tell me that people can identify with others who look different to them - many here have revealed the opposite to be true.

Another example, the new Star Wars trailer exposed the so-called 'I don't care what the race of the character is' for what they truly are because it made them uncomfortable to see the black guy as the lead/hero. A new Star Wars movie is coming out and all they could do was complain about the black stormtrooper. They really could not bear to see the black guy as the lead. It's sad.

EmptyCrustacean
01-13-2015, 04:35 AM
If I mentioned that I want a minority protagonist if it makes sense and ended it there this conversation we're having probably wouldn't exist. The moment I mention a 'black slave' you start going on about white power fantasy. That's what I meant when I said 'you can't talk about race at all these days'.

I was using Adewale as an example who was... you know... a black slave. Black people during the Golden Age of Piracy were treated like slaves. This is mentioned multiple times in the game. It's called sticking to history. Again you're making the baseless assumption that I always refer to slavery when I discuss black characters in AC. It's a baseless claim so I won't bother, but it's silly nonetheless.

I feel like I've said all I needed to say regarding the double standard applied whenever it is suggested that we should have a female or black protagonist so I'm not going to address this point AGAIN.


'Again, we had the opportunity do that and Ubisoft chose not to in order to satisfy people like you.'. There is a stand alone game called Freedom Cry. You should look it up sometime.

It's a DLC, not the main game although it should have been as I explained before regarding how his story affected the game mechanics - which you obviously ignored.


Again. Blowing things out of proportion for no good reason. I don't care what type of protagonist we get. Hell we could play as an insect for all I care. I just want it to make sense. It doesn't need to feel forced.

Realism! Natural! History! etc etc Bored now.

JamesFaith007
01-13-2015, 04:43 AM
Another example, the new Star Wars trailer exposed the so-called 'I don't care what the race of the character is' for what they truly are because it made them uncomfortable to see the black guy as the lead/hero. A new Star Wars movie is coming out and all they could do was complain about the black stormtrooper. They really could not bear to see the black guy as the lead. It's sad.

Ehm, most of these complains were just based on false assumption that Stormtroopers were still clones of Jango Fett in original trilogy and that Abrams is changing some core element of Star Wars universe. I saw and participated in many of these discussion and after mentioning, that clone army was replaced by conscripts in these era and that it was mentioned in books and comics, majority of people just said : "Oh, I didn't know that. Ok then."

Well, except discussion, where these people were automatically accused from racism and whole discussion was turned in vitriol fight. In such cases both sides don't care about facts.

EmptyCrustacean
01-13-2015, 04:43 AM
Because main hero was from beginning planned as father of Haytham Kenway and black father would look forced as hell?

But easy evident answer obviously not enough for you.

Why did he have to be the father of Haytham Kenway or related to him at all? It was never necessary. It didn't serve the plot at all as we never actually saw Edward as an Assassin. If Black Flag took place from when Edward became an Assassin, documented his life from then and ended the game with Haytham being kidnapped as a boy then you'd have a point but the game focused on a period on his life where Haytham wasn't even born. Making the protagonist related to Haytham and Connor was an afterthought in order to justify Black Flag as a game - since it is not a true AC game and had nothing to do with the Brotherhood.

EmptyCrustacean
01-13-2015, 04:52 AM
Ehm, most of these complains were just based on false assumption that Stormtroopers were still clones of Jango Fett in original trilogy and that Abrams is changing some core element of Star Wars universe. I saw and participated in many of these discussion and after mentioning, that clone army was replaced by conscripts in these era and that it was mentioned in books and comics, majority of people just said : "Oh, I didn't know that. Ok then."

Well, except discussion, where these people were automatically accused from racism and whole discussion was turned in vitriol fight. In such cases both sides don't care about facts.

Rubbish. The majority of people did NOT react that way. They were losing their frigging minds. I saw blatantly racist comments with discussions that ran into the ground no matter how you tried to explain it to them. If you go to YouTube you can STILL see some of the disgusting comments regarding a black lead. Furthermore, the black guy may just be undercover like Luke and Han Solo were when they donned a stormtrooper outfit but the fans let their racism cloud the idea of narrative context.

JamesFaith007
01-13-2015, 04:59 AM
Why did he have to be the father of Haytham Kenway or related to him at all? It was never necessary. It didn't serve the plot at all as we never actually saw Edward as an Assassin. If Black Flag took place from when Edward became an Assassin, documented his life from then and ended the game with Haytham being kidnapped as a boy then you'd have a point but the game focused on a period on his life where Haytham wasn't even born. Making the protagonist related to Haytham and Connor was an afterthought in order to justify Black Flag as a game - since it is not a true AC game and had nothing to do with the Brotherhood.

Because they spoke about him in AC:III? How he was great mariner? Why would they mention him if they didn't plan to use him?

And yes, it had a purpose. One of AC III focuses was on family divided by different beliefs. AC4 continuing in this family line and deepened it by making Edward first Assassin in family. And that he wasn't Assassin from beginning? Ezio became real Assassin in last 1/3 of game too, just their reason and motivation were different.


Rubbish. The majority of people did NOT react that way. They were losing their frigging minds. I saw blatantly racist comments with discussions that ran into the ground no matter how you tried to explain it to them. If you go to YouTube you can STILL see some of the disgusting comments regarding a black lead. Furthermore, the black guy may just be undercover like Luke and Han Solo were when they donned a stormtrooper outfit but the fans let their racism cloud the idea of narrative context.

When you are looking for racist comment you will find them. And after so long there would be nearly only racist comment on Youtube because people not blinded by "race problem" already left such discussions disgusted by behavior of both radical sides of these conflicts.

But you obviously already chose how to judge this situation.

RuNfAtBoYrUn740
01-13-2015, 05:14 AM
I feel like I've said all I needed to say regarding the double standard applied whenever it is suggested that we should have a female or black protagonist so I'm not going to address this point AGAIN.



It's a DLC, not the main game although it should have been as I explained before regarding how his story affected the game mechanics - which you obviously ignored.



Realism! Natural! History! etc etc Bored now.

I know you've attempted to make a point. Your arguments are weak though. That's why I am not agreeing with you.

You were saying that we had a perfect opportunity to look at the life of a black slave during the Golden Age of Piracy. I told you that Freedom Cry, a pretty substantial DLC is exactly that. It has deep themes of oppression and it touches on the troubles of being in the minority. If you going to ignore stuff like this that's fine but expect criticism.

You yourself, 'the defender of minority's!' sure are against having white protagonists.

It's clear you just want a minority for the sake of having a minority. Not because it makes sense. Not because it works well with the setting, themes and plot of the game. Not because it adds anything to the game. You just want it because they're a minority. Completely shallow and narrow-minded.

We get it. You don't care about history. This is a historical game that does it's best to portray that period of history with accuracy. if you're too sensitive to accept history for what it is then that's fine, but don't play AC and then complain that it's too realistic. Just making yourself look silly.

Ziiimmie
01-13-2015, 05:30 AM
I don't care about the gender/race/etc of the character as long as it's a good and well made character in an interesting story.

of course! but it would be great for ubisoft to put some fresh air into the series and even video games as a whole i was hoping with these new consoles they can take some risks and do some exciting new things! :)

But ofcourse i wont lose sleep if the game they release is a great well-written character! race/sex does not matter!

Ziiimmie
01-13-2015, 05:32 AM
I don't care about the gender/race/etc of the character as long as it's a good and well made character in an interesting story.


Why is there so much obsession over getting a female lead? Yes we haven't had one yet but I don't want Ubisoft making a female lead just because everyone wants it. I want them to make a female lead because of story reasons, gameplay reasons etc

I don't want an oversexualised female lead like Lara in Tomb Raider who has orgasms everytime she gets injured. If Ubisoft make a female lead just because people want it, it will probably be terrible.

It doesn't matter what gender the lead is, that won't make it a better game. I just want Ubisoft to focus on creating a good story, and if they have a good story focused around a female lead then by all means I want them to do it. I just don't want them doing it for the sake of it.



the character does not have to be oversexualised! they can be just as humble and normal as the rest of the characters in the series!

rprkjj
01-13-2015, 06:47 AM
Of course I can. I am expected everyday to relate with white male leads but the same is never asked from white male audiences which is why most leading roles in entertainment is 'white male'. Which is why "characters" like Aveline is relegated to a PS Vita DLC. Even now when anyone suggests a black or female lead for AC we get swarm of people using excuses like "realism!", "natural!" because they are no longer emotionally identifying with the character. They now have to start talking about real life elements because the 'fantasy' is shattered whereas 'realism' never was a problem before when Ezio was taking on 50 odd guards at age 60. So don't tell me that people can identify with others who look different to them - many here have revealed the opposite to be true.

Another example, the new Star Wars trailer exposed the so-called 'I don't care what the race of the character is' for what they truly are because it made them uncomfortable to see the black guy as the lead/hero. A new Star Wars movie is coming out and all they could do was complain about the black stormtrooper. They really could not bear to see the black guy as the lead. It's sad.

Holy Christ. Who is this invisible entity expecting anything from you? Also, "never asked"? Is that the only way you could produce an argument, just make sweeping absolutes based off nothing? I've played games with women as the lead, I've in fact consumed quite a lot of media where a woman was the focus/star/protag/whatever. So have millions of others, in America alone. And here you go pretending like you have actual facts to prove your point again. Most leading roles in entertainment are white males, sure. But are you sure that's a result of double standards or because the majority of the first world happen to be white and the majority of people in the entertainment business happen to be both white AND male? Also, Liberation wasn't DLC.

And then the rest of your post is continuing this incessant whiny attitude of yours where everything bad is because of racism and white males and any other reason is 100% implausible yet you manage to get from point A to point B of your argument with out this neat little thing called proof and verification. Really, you're just full of ****.

The_Kiwi_
01-13-2015, 09:48 AM
I don't want a female protagonist
I want a good protagonist

Locopells
01-13-2015, 02:13 PM
OK, guys keep it cool...

Journey93
01-13-2015, 04:08 PM
I'm with you OP it basically has to happen
would love a female protagonist (not for a lame handheld title but in a main entry of the franchise)

Ellise should have been the protagonist for Unity anyway

dxsxhxcx
01-13-2015, 05:05 PM
Even better if you could choose your gender and you can switch anytime so if you get sick of a male you change to a female without making a new game and so forth

and have a generic story just to fit both genders? No thanks!

if we are supposed to have a female protagonist, they better write a story that reflects this reality, if all they are going to do is change the character model then they shouldn't bother in doing it...

ShadoeKat
01-13-2015, 06:14 PM
I'd like a choice to play as a male or female. they just need to get the moves of a female assassin right. Aveline when she ran just looked weird. They need to study female movement in an action movie or even the girl that won the Ninja America course. They don't run so sissy like and they don't run masculine. If they could get that right they'd have something. They don't have to make the females overly prissy. They just have to make them more real.

essbeebee
01-13-2015, 09:37 PM
My two penn'orth. Speaking as a woman of a certain age (and a keen gamer), I have had no problem with male protagonists in any of the games i play. I prefer it. I am a woman every day of my life; when I enter the wonderful world of gaming, I get to be something I can't be in RL, at least not without serious surgery and a brain reduction (lol jk).

As to the rather charming "white male" debate that has been raging, i say only this: Altair, the first Assassin in the series, is a Syrian Arab.

playlisting
01-13-2015, 09:40 PM
Yes to a female protagonist; No to Feudal Japan.

+1

EmptyCrustacean
01-13-2015, 11:47 PM
Because they spoke about him in AC:III? How he was great mariner? Why would they mention him if they didn't plan to use him? And yes, it had a purpose. One of AC III focuses was on family divided by different beliefs. AC4 continuing in this family line and deepened it by making Edward first Assassin in family. And that he wasn't Assassin from beginning? Ezio became real Assassin in last 1/3 of game too, just their reason and motivation were different.

Um, don't ever compare Edward to Ezio. We never actually saw Edward become an Assassin. Throughout Black Flag he was a pirate through and through to the point where he didn't need to be a Kenway.



When you are looking for racist comment you will find them. And after so long there would be nearly only racist comment on Youtube because people not blinded by "race problem" already left such discussions disgusted by behavior of both radical sides of these conflicts.

But you obviously already chose how to judge this situation.

Nonense. You're selling this myth that racists are tyrannical giants who live on moutains with pointy hats and staffs when that is not the case. These were everyday people that we go to work or school with. Denying it changes nothing. The writing is literally on the (YouTube) wall. It exposed the subconscious racism of these so-called fans.

rprkjj
01-13-2015, 11:55 PM
Um, don't ever compare Edward to Ezio. We never actually saw Edward become an Assassin. Throughout Black Flag he was a pirate through and through to the point where he didn't need to be a Kenway.


Nonense. You're selling this myth that racists are tyrannical giants who live on moutains with pointy hats and staffs when that is not the case. These were everyday people that we go to work or school with. Denying it changes nothing. The writing is literally on the (YouTube) wall. It exposed the subconscious racism of these so-called fans.

Edward tells Ah Tabai he's joining the assassin's at the end when he's waiting to meet his daughter. There isn't a ceremony, but Connor didn't have one either.

EmptyCrustacean
01-14-2015, 12:06 AM
I know you've attempted to make a point. Your arguments are weak though. That's why I am not agreeing with you.

You're not agreeing with me because you're part of the problem. I have dismantled your ridiculous excuses to not have ethnic minorities in leading roles by exposing that this is all about you not being comfortable/used to it and not the 'realism' crap you keep spewing.


You were saying that we had a perfect opportunity to look at the life of a black slave during the Golden Age of Piracy. I told you that Freedom Cry, a pretty substantial DLC is exactly that. It has deep themes of oppression and it touches on the troubles of being in the minority. If you going to ignore stuff like this that's fine but expect criticism.

It was a DLC nonetheless, a pure tack on of the main game so it does NOT count.


You yourself, 'the defender of minority's!' sure are against having white protagonists.

I'm all for it. I have bought and played games with white protagonists all the time. Can't say the same for certain other gamers though...


It's clear you just want a minority for the sake of having a minority. Not because it makes sense. Not because it works well with the setting, themes and plot of the game. Not because it adds anything to the game. You just want it because they're a minority. Completely shallow and narrow-minded.

And it's clear that you only care about 'realism' and 'making sense' in reference to minorities but with white males you're happy to have them doing whatever the hell they want even if it flies in the face of all that's natural.


We get it. You don't care about history. This is a historical game that does it's best to portray that period of history with accuracy. if you're too sensitive to accept history for what it is then that's fine, but don't play AC and then complain that it's too realistic. Just making yourself look silly.

This coming from someone who keeps going on about 'gritty!' yet continues to ignore the fact that in previous games your character could taken on 60 odd guards at the same time then starts whining about realism if that person happens to be black.

ETA: I think this applies to you and like-minded individuals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u16sKK-1oLQ

EmptyCrustacean
01-14-2015, 12:08 AM
Edward tells Ah Tabai he's joining the assassin's at the end when he's waiting to meet his daughter. There isn't a ceremony, but Connor didn't have one either.

Again, that is right at the end. It is a complete tack-on after we had already played as a swashbuckling pirate plundering ships and continue to do so after the main campaign. We never actually get to play as an Assassin in Black Flag.

Namikaze_17
01-14-2015, 12:12 AM
We never actually saw Edward become an Assassin.


http://youtu.be/eCRgg5KuCVI

0:00-2:25

And to be fair, Ezio didn't become an Assassin until the end of his game. :rolleyes:

EmptyCrustacean
01-14-2015, 12:14 AM
http://youtu.be/eCRgg5KuCVI

0:00-2:25

And to be fair, Ezio didn't become an Assassin until the end of his game. :rolleyes:

Confirmation bias goes a long way, my dear. My accompanying quote:

We never actually get to play as an Assassin in Black Flag.

So your argument is invalid.

Shahkulu101
01-14-2015, 12:27 AM
We do get to play as an Assassin with Edward. After that scene he visits the Assassin's bureau in Kingston to kill Woodes Rogers for his first official assassination mission and then we kill Bart Roberts too.

Namikaze_17
01-14-2015, 12:31 AM
Confirmation bias goes a long way, my dear. My accompanying quote:


So your argument is invalid.

The video clearly demonstrates how he feels bad for what he's done and seeks redemption with the Assassins.

Tabai: "There is time to make amends, Captain Kenway."
Edward: "Mary...before she asked me to do good by her. To sort out the mess I made. Can you help me?"

Followed by...

Tabai: "And what do you think of our Creed?"
Edward:"It's hard to say. For if nothing is true then why believe anything? And if everything is permitted why not chase every desire?"
Tabai: Why indeed?
Edward: "It might be that this idea is the beginning of wisdom, and not its final form."

And you speak of Edward simply being a pirate that ran around killing people, yet Ezio was simply a pissed Nobleman killing people before becoming an Assassin. :rolleyes:

EmptyCrustacean
01-14-2015, 12:35 AM
We do get to play as an Assassin with Edward. After that scene he visits the Assassin's bureau in Kingston to kill Woodes Rogers for his first official assassination mission and then we kill Bart Roberts too.

Yes, by force because he had spent the duration of the game screwing them over so owed them one.

Aaaand this thread is derailing and I can already see it turning into a "Edward wasn't a true Assassin!/"No, he was!"/"No, he wasn't!"/"Yeah, but Ezio wasn't 'til the end blah blah blah" argument that has been done to death on these forums.

Back to the main topic, please: Female lead in Assassin's Creed. Yay! I'm all for it. Et tu?

Shahkulu101
01-14-2015, 12:39 AM
Yes, by force because he had spent the duration of the game screwing them over so owed them one.

Aaaand this thread is derailing and I can already see it turning into a "Edward wasn't a true Assassin!/"No, he was!"/"No, he wasn't!"/"Yeah, but Ezio wasn't 'til the end blah blah blah" argument that has been done to death on these forums.

Back to the main topic, please: Female lead in Assassin's Creed. Yay! I'm all for it. Et tu?

Yeah, but by then he had come to understand the Creed and share the Assassin's values. Anyway you're right, let's not veer off topic...

I want a female protagonist as well, yes.

Namikaze_17
01-14-2015, 12:44 AM
Yes, by force because he had spent the duration of the game screwing them over so owed them one.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/4f473dca404f3c0de3e92941ccba3505/tumblr_nh2nbc8vgS1u4cfhoo1_500.gif


But yes, back on topic... :rolleyes:

xChip1998x
01-14-2015, 01:06 AM
I have been preaching about this since forever. I think they're afraid of losing male players because they have to play as a female. Its silly, but boys can be boys.

I'm all for it; I connect better with female leads. :)

Ziiimmie
01-14-2015, 03:07 AM
I have been preaching about this since forever. I think they're afraid of losing male players because they have to play as a female. Its silly, but boys can be boys.

I'm all for it; I connect better with female leads. :)

exactly what frustrates me so much! they do it for the money which makes me sad.

RuNfAtBoYrUn740
01-14-2015, 03:53 AM
You're not agreeing with me because you're part of the problem. I have dismantled your ridiculous excuses to not have ethnic minorities in leading roles by exposing that this is all about you not being comfortable/used to it and not the 'realism' crap you keep spewing.



It was a DLC nonetheless, a pure tack on of the main game so it does NOT count.



I'm all for it. I have bought and played games with white protagonists all the time. Can't say the same for certain other gamers though...



And it's clear that you only care about 'realism' and 'making sense' in reference to minorities but with white males you're happy to have them doing whatever the hell they want even if it flies in the face of all that's natural.



This coming from someone who keeps going on about 'gritty!' yet continues to ignore the fact that in previous games your character could taken on 60 odd guards at the same time then starts whining about realism if that person happens to be black.

ETA: I think this applies to you and like-minded individuals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u16sKK-1oLQ

Again I'm not agreeing with you because your argument are just flat out piss weak. You're comparing the realism of gameplay to the realism of the protagonist. Adewale could do just as much damage in Freedom Cry as Edward. Aveline could fight just as well as Connor. The realism of gameplay has nothing to do with this.

For the record I was one of the people asking for harder combat because of the very reason the old combat was pretty unrealistic.

DLC does count. It's content that is made for gamers. I know YOU don't want to count it as such because it directly conflicts with one of the points your making.

Again you're combining gameplay into the realism here. Gameplay has no bearing on what type of protagonist you have. The gameplay of Adewale was the exact same as Edward. The gameplay of Aveline was the exact same as Edward. In terms of gameplay Ezio was worse at combat than Adewale. So bringing the realism of gameplay into this just completely contradicts your point.

But yes I expect a standard of realism and quality in my protagonists. If I am playing a game in the French Revolution I don't want to be playing some random Trinidadian slave. I want to be playing someone of French heritage. Similarly if I am playing a game set in Africa, I want to be playing an African protagonist, not a random American. The point is, it needs to work in the world itself otherwise it will feel incredibly forced all for the sake of keeping people like you happy.

Again you're playing a historical franchise here. They actually make an attempt to portray history as accurately as possible. If you're too sensitive to accept history then get out. Stop playing this franchise. This is not the series for you.

Again I am all for any protagonist. I really don't care what protagonist we play. It just needs to make sense. If we're in Africa, use a black protagonist. If we're in the French aristocracy use a white protagonist. If we're looking at themes of oppression and minority play a female black slave during the Haiti Revolution. It needs to make sense. I know you will spin some silly excuse about how I'm not listening to you and the truth is I don't care. You're wrong.

The people named in the video are flat out scared of black writers and black people in general. I've literally said in all of my answers that I am absolutely fine with having a black protagonist. It just needs to make sense. Just like having a white protagonist just needs to make sense. You're blowing this way out of proportion by implying that I am totally against black people. Every single answer I have said that I WANT a black protagonist. If I was scared of black characters I would not be playing half this franchise. Again just you trying to blow this out of proportion so you can push your ego by going on some silly forum crusade to paint everyone who disagrees with you as some anti-black person. Seriously grow up.

But by all means keep confusing realistic protagonists with realistic gameplay. Making yourself look really bright.

rprkjj
01-14-2015, 04:49 AM
As long as it's done right, I don't care if it's a female protagonist.