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wickywoowoo
01-08-2015, 04:51 PM
I have only been playing Unity for three days so far and have just finished the second sequence and got my Assassin skills and co-op, etc. I only started it on Monday so I am playing the game after all patches also.

However, I've seen no issues with the gameplay itself, the story (so far) and generally. It feels a lot like AC1 and I thoroughly love it so far. I do not get why people are so negative on this game at all. Is is really because they dislike the game itself or was it due to the issues with the glitches, bugs, etc.

Those criticism are 100% justified but I think if people started this game new, now, like me, they'd enjoy it. I think the game has been overlooked but that is just my opinion.

*Edit - No problems with the App either so far. Am I just extremely lucky here?*

SixKeys
01-08-2015, 05:34 PM
There seem to be two main camps: those who value story think Unity is awful, and those who value gameplay think it's great. I'm in the latter camp. You're also lucky that some of the biggest bugs were patched before you started playing. The game was a mess at launch.

The app remains annoying. It worked okay for me until the last missions, then it stopped synchronizing and preventing me from completing the game 100%. You likely won't find out if you'll have the same problem until you've already sunk several weeks into the app.

wickywoowoo
01-08-2015, 05:52 PM
There seem to be two main camps: those who value story think Unity is awful, and those who value gameplay think it's great. I'm in the latter camp. You're also lucky that some of the biggest bugs were patched before you started playing. The game was a mess at launch.

The app remains annoying. It worked okay for me until the last missions, then it stopped synchronizing and preventing me from completing the game 100%. You likely won't find out if you'll have the same problem until you've already sunk several weeks into the app.

I am an 80/20 story over gameplay guy, I rarely play games if there is no story for me to work through but so far, Unity has a story that makes sense and the gameplay is great. As I said, maybe the story will go down the toilet for me later but it feels great to me so far. I just think people who dislike it would enjoy it if they played it again, after the patches and gave it a clean slate (well, not the story since that cannot change).

It's odd to me.

EmptyCrustacean
01-08-2015, 06:16 PM
I too thought the first few hours of the game was great at first but the story/campaign gets worse and worse as it goes along - rushed, poorly paced, character moments that just aren't earned. Furthermore, as the missions become more demanding you will begin to lose patience with the unresponsive mechanics.

wickywoowoo
01-08-2015, 06:19 PM
I too thought the first few hours of the game was great at first but the story/campaign gets worse and worse as it goes along - rushed, poorly paced, character moments that just aren't earned. Furthermore, as the missions become more demanding you will begin to lose patience with the unresponsive mechanics.

I only play one or maybe two story missions a night and do side stuff for the rest of my game session. Will my play style fix any pacing issues? I imagine a lot of people hammer through story missions a lot when first playing while I spread it out to last a good month or so. Maybe the way I play is more suited to this game than other people?

SixKeys
01-08-2015, 06:26 PM
I only play one or maybe two story missions a night and do side stuff for the rest of my game session. Will my play style fix any pacing issues? I imagine a lot of people hammer through story missions a lot when first playing while I spread it out to last a good month or so. Maybe the way I play is more suited to this game than other people?

That's my playstyle too. On some days I don't do any story stuff at all, I just get lost in side missions.

My problem with Unity's story wasn't the pacing or presentation, but poor characterization, lack of depth in the love story and the handling of modern day.

wickywoowoo
01-08-2015, 07:14 PM
That's my playstyle too. On some days I don't do any story stuff at all, I just get lost in side missions.

My problem with Unity's story wasn't the pacing or presentation, but poor characterization, lack of depth in the love story and the handling of modern day.

From what I've read, the modern day will not be substantial enough to make me happy (Modern Day fan for the win) but it already feels a more like an AC game than Black Flag did. It felt like a pirate game with some Assassin crossover.

EmptyCrustacean
01-08-2015, 09:55 PM
I only play one or maybe two story missions a night and do side stuff for the rest of my game session. Will my play style fix any pacing issues? I imagine a lot of people hammer through story missions a lot when first playing while I spread it out to last a good month or so. Maybe the way I play is more suited to this game than other people?

When I say 'pacing' I'm not talking about how side missions are mixed with the main campaign. In fact, that is my play style too. I've had Rogue for a few days now and still haven't reached the stage at which he becomes a Templar. Pacing in storytelling terms refers to the time spent between big event to big event. That is, time we spend with certain characters and the general build up to climactic moments. Because Unity is rushed, big moments aren't earned, none of the of the set ups pay off, none of the pay offs are set up and the characters have no depth or development. For instance, there is a big 'betrayal' that comes out of nowhere and means nothing because we never get to establish the relationship between Arno and this other person and thus we don't care. This has nothing to do with whether or not you do side missions in between or not. It's just jarring and poor writing.

Whilst I agree that Unity is way more 'Assassiny' than Black Flag it is still not a true AC game and worse - is constantly pretending it is. You have this ridiculous, over the top initiation ceremony for Arno but it's ridiculed by the fact that Arno doesn't even believe in the Brotherhood's creed and at no point does his main concern become the conflict between the Templars & the Assassins. Characters name drop Altair and give these speeches about 'hiding in plain sight' but it's just to convince players the game has gone back to its roots. Arno is just using the Brotherhood for personal gain and they are nothing more than a backdrop that really play no part in his 'development'.

Assassin_M
01-08-2015, 10:00 PM
"I love Unity so far"
"It's gonna suck, it's bad"

Why don't you let the guy decide for himself? Mate, you need to understand that what you think is bad or "poor" is your subjective opinion. Nothing you mentioned is fact.

SOLIDSOUTHCENTRA
01-08-2015, 10:49 PM
I have only been playing Unity for three days so far and have just finished the second sequence and got my Assassin skills and co-op, etc. I only started it on Monday so I am playing the game after all patches also.

However, I've seen no issues with the gameplay itself, the story (so far) and generally. It feels a lot like AC1 and I thoroughly love it so far. I do not get why people are so negative on this game at all. Is is really because they dislike the game itself or was it due to the issues with the glitches, bugs, etc.

Those criticism are 100% justified but I think if people started this game new, now, like me, they'd enjoy it. I think the game has been overlooked but that is just my opinion.

*Edit - No problems with the App either so far. Am I just extremely lucky here?*

I really feel that a lot of people played the campaign did not like Arno or the story played 1 match of CO-OP with 4 people instead of just 2 max didn't like it and sh!t canned the game. Now in all fairness I bought the game 3 weeks after launch when Patch 4 was on it way in. I will say if a person is not a fan of the stealth genre then they probably will not like this game. I for one have found it to be the best AC game to date and I am really looking forward to Dead Kings. Also try some 4 and 5 diamond Paris Stories and Social Club Missions. Be sure to renovate all you can from the Café Theatre to the Social Clubs.

SOLIDSOUTHCENTRA
01-08-2015, 10:56 PM
I only play one or maybe two story missions a night and do side stuff for the rest of my game session. Will my play style fix any pacing issues? I imagine a lot of people hammer through story missions a lot when first playing while I spread it out to last a good month or so. Maybe the way I play is more suited to this game than other people? Exactly AC has always been a game that I play for 2 hours max in fact that is just the sort of gamer I am on any game 2hours then break, comeback 6 hours later then game.

EmptyCrustacean
01-08-2015, 11:27 PM
"I love Unity so far"
"It's gonna suck, it's bad"

Why don't you let the guy decide for himself? Mate, you need to understand that what you think is bad or "poor" is your subjective opinion. Nothing you mentioned is fact.

At no point have I said he shouldn't decide for himself. At no point did I say it's fact. I am simply stating my opinion - this is a DICUSSION board after all.
Just because you love Unity and can't bear it when anybody calls it out for the piece of trash it is doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion, dude.

Assassin_M
01-08-2015, 11:41 PM
At no point have I said he shouldn't decide for himself. At no point did I say it's fact. I am simply stating my opinion - this is a DICUSSION board after all.
Mate, this what you said basically. You wished him nothing positive, saying that MAYBE he'll enjoy what you didn't, no. You gave a breakdown of how the game will suck and how it's bad. Your post comes across as fact, forget adding "in my opinion", it just comes across that way. You're telling him it's bad, you're telling him it gets worse, you're telling him that certain story points are executed badly and you word it in such a way that him thinking otherwise would be wrong because, of course, it's bad.


Just because you love Unity and can't bear it when anybody calls it out for the piece of trash it is doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion, dude.
Tone down the passive aggressiveness and defensiveness, sonny. I never pounced on anyone who disliked Unity. There're hundreds of threads here that dislike Unity and I never posted in a single one and when I do--IF I do--I can bear it and I can discuss the game like an adult (Provided of course, the other person is an adult and not a butt-hurt, angry child)

Always this pathetic excuse "ARAFARAFARFARAFARAFA, doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion" Stop playing victim, no one said you can't voice your opinion. Dude's enjoying a game, you're telling him why it sucks. You're the type of person whom others tell to kindly, bug off.

dargor5
01-08-2015, 11:44 PM
I love unity too and hope for at least 3 more games with the new upgrades to the engine

EmptyCrustacean
01-08-2015, 11:57 PM
Mate, this what you said basically. You wished him nothing positive, saying that MAYBE he'll enjoy what you didn't, no. You gave a breakdown of how the game will suck and how it's bad. Your post comes across as fact, forget adding "in my opinion", it just comes across that way. You're telling him it's bad, you're telling him it gets worse, you're telling him that certain story points are executed badly and you word it in such a way that him thinking otherwise would be wrong because, of course, it's bad.

If you're intimidated and threatened by me simply stating an opinion that's your insecurity, brah. You're not a child. I don't have to say "in my opinion" in every post just so you don't cry and think it's a fact. It goes without saying that anything that's said here about whether the game is good or not is subjective opinion. That shouldn't have to be stressed over and over to placate oversensitive people like you. You should be secure in your love of Unity to not be upset by descenting opinions. And stop trying to make out that you're simply 'protecting' the FM - this has nothing to do with how you think I am casting a shadow over the game for them. This about you, once again, trying to do damage control with the amount of smack talked about this terrible, terrible game and you know it - just like you do with your precious Connor Kenway AKA the most despised protagonist in all of the main games and DLCs lol. XD


Tone down the passive aggressiveness and defensiveness, sonny. I never pounced on anyone who disliked Unity. There're hundreds of threads here that dislike Unity and I never posted in a single one and when I do--IF I do--I can bear it and I can discuss the game like an adult (Provided of course, the other person is an adult and not a butt-hurt, angry child)

Don't. Your blood pressure wouldn't be able to take it.


Always this pathetic excuse "ARAFARAFARFARAFARAFA, doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion" Stop playing victim, no one said you can't voice your opinion. Dude's enjoying a game, you're telling him why it sucks. You're the type of person whom others tell to kindly, bug off.

No, you're trying to victimise me and failing badly, bub. And it's "bugger" off, homie. The world won't end if people call out Unity for being garbage, trust me.

Assassin_M
01-09-2015, 12:02 AM
http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2012/10/sarah_parenting/baby-crying.jpg
Calm down, please

Anyways, OP. I hope you get to continue enjoying the game. I hope sonny's posts don't sour your experience.

EmptyCrustacean
01-09-2015, 12:13 AM
Calm down, please

Anyways, OP. I hope you get to continue enjoying the game. I hope sonny's posts don't sour your experience.

Not a good photo of you. I don't think the light captured your sulky side enough. Needs more pout to reflect the petulance you consistently display on the forums.

Assassin_M
01-09-2015, 12:18 AM
I love unity too and hope for at least 3 more games with the new upgrades to the engine
I doubt there'll be JUST 3 games with Unity's engine.

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 02:08 AM
@OP - I love Unity as well. From the trailers, I thought the story was going to blow. It looked like it was going back to the route of AC2/B, but I was pleasantly surprised by how wrong I was.

Gameplay-wise, it's been a blast. The stealth is great, the combat is hard, and navigation is the best it has ever been. And CO-OP adds an entire new layer to these elements. It's a lot of fun.

Overall, the only problem I have are its relentless acts of anti-consumerism. You know, like being released unfinished, chock-full of locked content, microtransaction, etc, etc.


I doubt there'll be JUST 3 games with Unity's engine.

I wouldn't mind a few more games with Unity's engine. It's fantastic.

That said, 3 main games are enough. The AnvilNext has shown its age in Rogue (especially with Unity around). If we got a 4th, it had better be something small like Liberation.

(btw, way to throw the smack down. dat expose)

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 02:13 AM
I am an 80/20 story over gameplay guy, I rarely play games if there is no story for me to work through but so far, Unity has a story that makes sense and the gameplay is great. As I said, maybe the story will go down the toilet for me later but it feels great to me so far. I just think people who dislike it would enjoy it if they played it again, after the patches and gave it a clean slate (well, not the story since that cannot change).

It's odd to me.

mechanically the gameplay is functionally good

but as to what you can do I don't like

too many collectibles

and the missions are fun, but the NPCs are blank slates

I follow a guideline of 3 pillars. presentation/story/gameplay

in gameplay it's rather good but not super fun for me. but def the best ac mechanics aside from naval.

but on side missions the presentation falls flat and story falls flat everywhere.

that being said, Unity is above brotherhood and liberation, but below all the other AC installments for me.

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 02:25 AM
that being said, Unity is above brotherhood and liberation, but below all the other AC installments for me.

Really? Brotherhood but not 2?

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 02:30 AM
Really? Brotherhood but not 2?

I watched a cutscene movie of AC2 recently.

I didn't finish it, but I enjoyed it up to the point Ezio got trained by uncle mario.

I'd have to replay it, but I'm slowly enjoying it more and liking brotherhood/revelations less.

the presentation is really good and seeing ezio in a traumatized state after witnessing his close family including his preteen brother be hanged infront of him just really strikes me.

but i have to replay it.

im starting to enjoy ac2

I know, I'm basically Hitler.


Brotherhood's plot is pretty ehhh with Cesare....and the gameplay got a bit stale by then.

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 02:56 AM
I watched a cutscene movie of AC2 recently.

I didn't finish it, but I enjoyed it up to the point Ezio got trained by uncle mario.

I'd have to replay it, but I'm slowly enjoying it more and liking brotherhood/revelations less.

the presentation is really good and seeing ezio in a traumatized state after witnessing his close family including his preteen brother be hanged infront of him just really strikes me.

but i have to replay it.

im starting to enjoy ac2

I know, I'm basically Hitler.


Brotherhood's plot is pretty ehhh with Cesare....and the gameplay got a bit stale by then.


It's the opposite for me. I'm starting to enjoy Brotherhood's story a whole lot more than 2. I feel like Brotherhood knew what AC2 really had and rolled with it. One-dimensional characters? Let's cut the unimportant ones, give the big ones more screen time, and make them more memorable. Cartoony Templars? Let's cut the old farts and make them more eccentric and fun. Ezio in AC2 barely developed at all as a character and so was Brotherhood's, but Ezio's character became more consistent and less rhetorical.

AC2 also had little to no back and fourth philosophy and importance of the Creed, whatsoever. That is the biggest blow for me.

Regarding Revelations, it's the best story of Ezio Trilogy, IMO. I could go on forever about why I feel Revelations was the best, but I'd be sitting here writing an essay until morning. My opinion, of course.

I don't know, I just don't understand how you can enjoy AC2's story, but dislike Unity's. I feel like Unity trumps AC2 in all areas. Gameplay, characters, the Creed, philosophy, Templars, conspiracy, it's so much better. But I guess I'll leave it for another discussion. Or maybe PM. :p

Btw, have you read M's sig?

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/909298-Wprst-lead-in-Assassin-s-Creed-history?p=10156765&viewfull=1#post10156765
http://i.gyazo.com/a120b800babdeeef0584a528ba21b504.png

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 03:03 AM
I don't know, I just don't understand how you can enjoy AC2's story, but dislike Unity's. I feel like Unity trumps AC2 in all areas. Gameplay, characters, the Creed, philosophy, Templars, conspiracy, it's so much better. But I guess I'll leave it for another discussion.

I dont remember any of the templars Ezio killed in ac2 so i imagine there's a big chunk of the story where everything is essentially filler. That I dont like.

I just enjoyed Ezio more because i found his devastation more compelling than Arno's.

yes Arno and Ezio both share the charisma that people seem to hate these days but Ezio came first and thus was a new type of personality for the franchise

but like i said the rest of the game is fuzzy for me and if it's fuzzy it cant be that memorable. i have to rewatch it.

because the villains in ac2 i do find are weak. same with unity's.

I just enjoyed ezio and his upbringing more than Arno's.

And no I havent read it. I want to analyze the game fully before I inadvertently let other reviews influence my opinion.

regarding revelations, I enjoyed closure for altair and the exotic missions, but it felt like filler when it came to ezio. He found a loved one and was just reading altair's diary while beating up ottomans. i have to replay it like i said. (i only played the ezio games once each) but after a while i realized what was the point?

ironically when i first played, ac2 was my least fav and rev my most. but my opinion switched overtime upon reflection

Namikaze_17
01-09-2015, 03:04 AM
Er, Ezio's better in Brotherhood. ( Not much though)

Though I like AC2 a bit better than Brotherhood ( Again, not by much)


They were pretty much the same except one was basically one word: Borgia

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 03:08 AM
I didnt like the vast single open world that was Rome in brotherhood.

It was a bunch of empty

Assassin_M
01-09-2015, 03:15 AM
Er, Ezio's better in Brotherhood. ( Not much though)
It's actually by a lot, I would say. Although Ezio is LITERALLY Gary Stu in Brotherhood, he shows MUCH more character progression and logical development direction than he did in AC II.
I especially liked the relationship with his sister.



Btw, have you read M's sig?

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/909298-Wprst-lead-in-Assassin-s-Creed-history?p=10156765&viewfull=1#post10156765
http://i.gyazo.com/a120b800babdeeef0584a528ba21b504.png
I think she should read it after she replays the game and forms her own opinions. As she said, it'd be unfair to bias her opinion. As i'm quite convincing, amiright? heuheuheuheu

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 03:18 AM
I do remember enjoying Claudia in AC brotherhood

Perhaps it's just the strong presentation of ac2.

i dont know

but i get embarrassed for saying i like AC2 >////>

but that doesnt mean it doesnt have its flaws

i just find it less flawed than Unity

they may be similar but dont forget AC2 doesnt have to deal with other hindrances like excessive transmedia and microtransactions

but hey i have to replay it to be sure

Namikaze_17
01-09-2015, 03:19 AM
I didnt like the vast single open world that was Rome in brotherhood.

It was a bunch of empty

I liked the Side activities...

Though traveling around did get repetitive and tiresome.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 03:22 AM
I have heard brotherhood had the best side missions

but im the 'beat storymode and only go side missions if really enjoyed it" kind of person

ill check them out next time

Assassin_M
01-09-2015, 03:23 AM
but i get embarrassed for saying i like AC2 >////>
You shouldn't. The front I keep about hating AC II and stuff for ****z and giggles to rustle fanboy jimmies. I really like AC II. The story has its amazing strong points.


but that doesnt mean it doesnt have its flaws
More reason for you not to be embarrassed. Just admitting that is healthy, it means I wont view you as a blind fangirl and I wont try to shove in your face that AC II sucks, you're safe.


they may be similar but dont forget AC2 doesnt have to deal with other hindrances like excessive transmedia and microtransactions

but hey i have to replay it to be sure
AC II represents the high age of crap for Ubisoft. Or at least the start of it. HUGE and important story points and character development are locked behind sequences 12 and 13. 2 sequences that were cut from the game due to time constraints and later put up for sale as DLC for $10 each.


I have heard brotherhood had the best side missions

but im the 'beat storymode and only go side missions if really enjoyed it" kind of person

ill check them out next time
You should try doing side missions and main missions side by side in Brotherhood.

Namikaze_17
01-09-2015, 03:27 AM
You should try doing side missions and main missions side by side in Brotherhood.

I actually enjoyed/spend more time on them than the main story truth be told.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 03:27 AM
You shouldn't. The front I keep about hating AC II and stuff for ****z and giggles to rustle fanboy jimmies. I really like AC II. The story has its amazing strong points.

figured.

I have a similar attitude towards some elements of transmedia.

and modern day

and okie dokie!

too bad i have no means of replaying it ATM as I have no 360 or PC rn OTL

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 03:33 AM
I just enjoyed Ezio more because i found his devastation more compelling than Arno's.

yes Arno and Ezio both share the charisma that people seem to hate these days but Ezio came first and thus was a new type of personality for the franchise

but like i said the rest of the game is fuzzy for me and if it's fuzzy it cant be that memorable. i have to rewatch it.

But Ezio doesn't have any devastation. Everything is a step forward for Ezio. One downbringing is another uprising. Ezio is never flawed or affected by anything. He's always the same Ezio from beginning to end, just with a bigger status and harem.

Arno at the very least showed signs of being affected. After the events in the beginning, he became more cold, someone's who's obviously burdened by grief, and Elise was the only person who bring out the life in him. Etc, etc.

Also, Arno isn't charismatic. He's not Ezio. They're entirely different people. Similar beginnings, but entirely different personas.

I guess I've played these games too much. You're still fresh, so I understand.


because the villains in ac2 i do find are weak. same with unity's.

Unity's at least had redeemable qualities. The Templars weren't a bunch of old fools who were in it for themselves like in AC2. They had a justifiable reason for their decisions, a purpose for joining the order, plenty of philosophical understanding, and some of them were downright righteous. i.e Bellec

AC2's antagonists were for the most part, negligible in every sense of the word. To some degree, even Rodrigo Borgia. A man who tried to kill god with a stick... At least Germain was trying to build a better future.


I just enjoyed ezio and his upbringing more than Arno's.

Arno's was much better, IMO. He felt human. He could break, be despaired, and learn from his mistake. At the end of the game, with the tragedies of so many and the reign of terror, Arno understood the path he walked, and most importantly, the Creed. In one game, he got just as much as development as Ezio throughout his entire Trilogy.

AC2 Ezio was invincible. Regardless of past traumas, he's relatively the same Ezio from beginning to end. No development whatsoever. Everyone he meets either loves him or patronize him, sometimes both. *wink, wink* He never understood his path or the Creed (that's why ACR exists). And anyone apposing Ezio are beneath him (the antagonists are a joke). Ezio just doesn't learn anything. Not the Brotherhood, not the Creed, not his path, he just happily moves on to do better things because his life is perfect.


regarding revelations, I enjoyed closure for altair and the exotic missions, but it felt like filler when it came to ezio. He found a loved one and was just reading altair's diary while beating up ottomans. i have to replay it like i said. (i only played the ezio games once each) but after a while i realized what was the point?

Honestly, I didn't really care too much about closure or Altair's story too much. What made me like Revelations is the fact that the story simply got better. Sure, it was a filler, but it was a necessary filler, IMO. It saved the trilogy for me. They brought back so many things that was dropped in AC2/B. The Creed, philosophy, independent Templars. a humanized protagonist (old Ezio) with some quality development, and really good writing.

Gameplay-wise, it's the 4th most viable stealth game in the franchise (ACU, Black Flag, and Rogue being ahead) Navigation got an update and combat is a whole lot more balance, especially with the Janissaries. The best of the trilogy.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 03:33 AM
also not afraid to admit Shay is somewhat of a gary stu for inexplicably wanting to save mankind and doing everything for the greater good but i still love him with all my heart

we havent seen an ac protagonist so exaggeratedly selfless IMO.



I guess I've played these games too much. You're still fresh, so I understand.

please don't make statements like that. they're belittling to me.

regarding what you said, i saw moments where ezio looked devastated by loss and scared and helpless. and i found his reasoning for being devastated to be much more compelling.

and arno didnt feel human to me. he and ezio both to a degree felt like classic hollywood protagonists

and i dont agree regarding upbringing

Namikaze_17
01-09-2015, 03:52 AM
regarding what you said, i saw moments where ezio looked devastated by loss and scared and helpless.

And how long did that last? :rolleyes:

One scene? Two?

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 03:52 AM
Oh, sorry! I didn't mean to belittle you or anything. I think of every fan as equal.

It's just that you keep repeating stuff like ''I've only played it once, needa rewatch it'' a lot so I tried to fit it into a short phrase. If it offended you, I'm sorry. Really, I am.

I hate using words like casual fans, hardcore fans, etc, etc, to describe others.


also not afraid to admit Shay is somewhat of a gary stu for inexplicably wanting to save mankind and doing everything for the greater good but i still love him with all my heart

In a way, they all are. :p

Some are just done better than others. I love Shay because he felt more human. He was affected by everything and had became more cold. Things like that makes these power-fantasies more redeemable to me.


we havent seen an ac protagonist so exaggeratedly selfless IMO.

Iunno. Connor was pretty darn selfless, IMO. It's hard to top dat guy.


regarding what you said, i saw moments where ezio looked devastated by loss and scared and helpless. and i found his reasoning for being devastated to be much more compelling.

and arno didnt feel human to me. he and ezio both to a degree felt like classic hollywood protagonists

and i dont agree regarding upbringing

Ezio's trauma is rhetorical. It's there for a cut-scene or two, and gone the next. It doesn't change his character or come back to haunt him. It's the end of that matter. He goes back to being Ezio.

What happened when Arno lost his father? He lost his innocence and became very attached to the broken watch. It's also revisited throughout the game, and as _M put it in his review--

The broken watch became a symbol for Arno's development. --Something like that.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 04:57 AM
eeehhh when it came down to it connor prioritized his people over the general public. at least for a good chunk of time.

Shay was like "the wooooorld! we must save it! :0" to the point it was adorably funny IMO.

and I saw it more as ezio mentally recovered from what he witnessed.

i dont remember if he changed at all because i havent played it in a while but im not saying he changed and arno didnt. im saying they both didnt change much at all aside from becoming generally more serious.

and i dont really value the memento thing. probably because i've seen it in a thousand animes. i know its not applicable here but i grew up on anime and there's like always a red scarf or trinket that reminds of a dead parent and im like auuughhhhh

its technically new for ac tho...but its like auuuuugh

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 05:36 AM
eeehhh when it came down to it connor prioritized his people over the general public. at least for a good chunk of time.

Shay was like "the wooooorld! we must save it! :0" to the point it was adorably funny IMO.

and I saw it more as shay mentally recovered from what he witnessed.

lel

''I make my own luck.''

Unless you're some Assassin fanatic, you just can't hate Shay.


i dont remember if he changed at all because i havent played it in a while but im not saying he changed and arno didnt. im saying they both didnt change much at all aside from becoming generally more serious.

and i dont really value the memento thing. probably because i've seen it in a thousand animes. i know its not applicable here but i grew up on anime and there's like always a red scarf or trinket that reminds of a dead parent and im like auuughhhhh

its technically new for ac tho...but its like auuuuugh

Eh, I feel like Arno had as much changes as Connor.

Connor:
Boy - Innocent and naive
Teen - More attentive of the world, scarred from past, and still naive
Man - Serious, prepared for duty, but still naive
End - No longer naive and continued to move the Brotherhood forward

Arno:
Boy - Innocent
Teen - Troublemaker with no self purpose
Man - Cold from losing love ones and using love and redemption as a purpose
End - Understood his purpose, found a path, and moved on with the Brotherhood.

I actually find both of these characters to have plenty of dynamics in personality, as well. I enjoy the more playful romantic side of Arno when he's with Elise, the cold stoic side when he's with Bellec and in a job, the sarcastic witty person he is when he's by himself or helping others non Templar/Assassin related, and the familiar troublemaker side when Victor and Hugo made a return cameo.

It reminded me of Connor who was serious during his duty, down to earth in the homestead, and you know the rest.

Now AC2 Ezio:
Baby - lul
Young teen - Charismatic troublemaker
Older teen - Charismatic troublemaker with a hood who's out for revenge
End - Charismatic troublemaker with a title and Creed he does not understand. (who literally retired from the Brotherhood after, mind you, but was still out for revenge in the following sequel)

And maybe I don't give AC2's story enough credits, but I don't recall that many dynamics in his character. He's always that same Ezio.

Lmao. Ye, I understand the memento can be a little cheesy at times, but I felt like it was handled fairly well in Unity. It wasn't thrown in our faces every sequence. Just 2-3 times to make a point.
As someone who used to be a weeaboo, I was, and I say this A LOT, pleasantly surprised by how well it was done.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 05:42 AM
meant to say ezio mentally recovered, not shay.

and i still view connor as a naive optimist. that he realizes he achieved nothing by his methods and only caused harm, but makes the (what i would argue) naive conscious decision to continue his methods in hopes things will change. at first i hated his character for that but i grew appreciative of it. because in the end he is punished for it. if you look at the abstergo employee handbook he ends up alone reflecting his mistakes so his life is expressing themes of balancing protection and trust and the consequences of each.

i liked that theme.

like how altair had themes of pride and honor.

but for arno it felt like revenge/redemption which was essentially the same as ezio's.

and how you described arno is the exact problem i have with him. he's just so....simple.......he lacks layers IMO. not saying ezio has layers (as i said i dont LOVE him, just like him more than arno simply for at least offering something new thematically and personality-wise to the franchise) but arno just was too easy to absorb and felt there wasnt depth to him.

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 06:29 AM
meant to say ezio mentally recovered, not shay.

We can say that, but again, it was brushed to the side shortly after. That gives it zero entity to it. There's no impact, except giving Ezio a cooler future.

It's part of the Ezio pattern.


but for arno it felt like revenge/redemption which was essentially the same as ezio's.

and how you described arno is the exact problem i have with him. he's just so....simple.......he lacks layers IMO. not saying ezio has layers (as i said i dont LOVE him, just like him more than arno simply for at least offering something new thematically and personality-wise to the franchise) but arno just was too easy to absorb and felt there wasnt depth to him.

Arno's story is not like Ezio's... Come on, read my comparisons.

Anyway, how does what I describe make Arno simple? Lacking layers? That's literally what Ezio's plagued by. The point I'm trying to make is the exact opposite. Arno is full of character, development and changes, his personalities shifts throughout the many dynamics.

Depth for Arno, courtesy of _M and Sixkeys:


Assassins are just people like everyone else. They're not all perfectly stoic and focused like a proper assassin "should" be. That's what makes them all unique and interesting. A character is far more relatable if they have weaknesses and flaws. Arno's flaw is being too clingy. He's afraid to let other people make their own decisions out of fear that they will choose to reject him. It happened with both Bellec and Elise. He's stuck in his own past due to feelings of guilt and can't - or won't - move on. In the end losing Elise - and realizing that her fate was out of his control - was the push he needed to understand what was holding him back and allowed him to finally move on with his life. This is evidenced by the fact that his watch, which has been broken ever since his father's death, is fixed by the end, and Arno's speech about dogma and fanaticism shows that he understands what drove Bellec and Elise and why he wants to be different from them.


Spoiler:
Every time Arno's motivation is gone, he goes back to the watch and it's still broken. His life stops, right there. On the day his father died. He never really moved on from it. At least when there's no one around him to keep him safe. he grew up with no mother. Not his real one and not a step one. Elise most likely filled A LOT of roles for Arno, like Eve did for Adam. (Arno, Elise? Adam, Eve? anyone?) She was a troublesome sister, a passionate lover and warm mother. She kept him safe. Her shadow kept him secure. Her presence was his driving force, the thing he looks forward to.


In jail, the first and only person Arno asks for is Elise. He asks for no one else, he doesn't ask for a trial, nothing. He asks only for Elise. When she doubts Arno, that's it for him. He goes back to his father's watch. it's broken, unmoving but he then resolves to try and win her back. Hope in the form of the Assassins arises and Arno begins anew. He finds a mentor, a cause and a family. He joins for a personal redemption but it's not like he never believed in the cause, he was simply young. He always tried to take the initiative with his duty as an Assassin. He says to Pierre that they should stop the fanatics, he argues with Sofie that the revolution is what people are asking for and that they should support it because freedom is its goal. He had a sense of justice that would be absent from someone like Edward early in AC IV, someone who's only solely interested in self gain. He takes it upon himself to reveal the atrocities of Saint Just and kills his Valet because of what they did, he helps a young woman by training her to regain her family's invaded house. No one tells him to go and do these things, he does them on initiative. That's because this is consistent with Arno's character. He's dependent. He needs people. He needed a reason to function.


Did anyone notice how every time Arno started giving up hope, his watch got stolen? and then returned back not through his efforts but through someone else? Arno tries to get the watch back but it ALWAYS eludes him. First in the Bastille and then in Versailles. The watch is returned to him by two very dear people. Pierre returns it and gives him his renewed motivation in prison and Elise does the same in Versailles. Both die, though. Both returned the watch and spurned him forward and both have busts of them in Arno's room. They're the only people with busts for them in Arno's room.


After Elise dies, OF COURSE he goes back to the Assassins. His watch his still there and it works again. He's moved on. He found his family among the Brotherhood. It's a complete arc in my eyes.

I would throw ''too easy to absorb and felt there wasn't depth to him'' towards Ezio. It's why he's popular. He's simple and easy to understand. He's charismatic, charming, and a womanizer. When he meets a woman, he always diddle them. If not diddled, they would show some kind of love for him. Even what's her face... Lucrezia Borgia. When he's up against the antagonists, they're always in the wrong. Ezio doesn't need anything clever or smart to say, just ''Requiescat in Pace'' because it's cool. --That's more generic than Arno's watch. When he meets a new character, they always either love him or patronize him. That's not what's up with Arno. When Elise's father was murdered, she didn't want to look him. What happened when Ezio couldn't save his family (giving the letter to the Templar)? Nobody blamed him. Everyone was still supportive. ''Ezio, I heard you are skilled'' ''Ezio, I was told you were a fast runner'' ''Ezio, you are a handsome lad'' Ezio--this, Ezio--that. How about Arno? Bellec told him to kill himself as a message during his first mission. :p And the Brotherhood? Ezio have made ton of mistakes. But nobody mentions it. Nobody treads on the casualties. He let Rodrigo Borgia live at the end of AC2, disobeying the order and the Creed for himself (despite just joining them, making his ''Assassin'' development redundant). And what happens? The Borgias knocked back on his villa, killed his uncle, etc, etc. Nobody blames him, though, nope. Not the Assassins or relative. They continued to patronize him and tell him to get revenge (again). Oh, but there was one guy. Machiavelli. Despite disagreeing with Ezio's decision, he made Ezio into a Mentor, made him the leader of the Assassins in Rome, etc, etc. Again, what about Arno? He got booted from the Assassins, lmao. Do you get my point? Not only are the story different, Unity is has a ton more depth, more substance. I recommend you replay the Ezio Trilogy. You'll see what I mean by all this. There's no depth, no development, just Ezio being Gary Stu.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 06:43 AM
. Arno is full of character, development and changes, his personalities shifts throughout the many dynamics.

wooaaaah

so much i disagree with there

i read over that quote you pasted and arno just feels like such a hollywood character

but its 1AM and i have low battery and already gave my opinion regarding his character a thousand times already hnghh

ill continue in the morning if feel need be

Assassin_M
01-09-2015, 06:43 AM
Depth for Arno, courtesy of _M:


I apologize for interrupting but the first quote is Sixkey's, not mine. Credit where it is due. Carry on, yougin's This is a fun discussion to read.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 06:44 AM
ah shoot i ruined ur fun discussion, M.

Ill continue morning i promise

im just sleepy QAQ

HDinHB
01-09-2015, 06:56 AM
... I really like AC II. The story has its amazing strong points.

...

AC II represents the high age of crap for Ubisoft....



http://rs919.pbsrc.com/albums/ad37/thebloodofkonstantin/reaction%20gifs/tumblr_mdg72sKsdL1qef2y7.gif~c200


:p

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 07:02 AM
I apologize for interrupting but the first quote is Sixkey's, not mine. Credit where it is due. Carry on, yougin's This is a fun discussion to read.

Whoops. I needa organize the quotes I copied.

God damn you, _M. Is it a funny discussion or a fun discussion? >>


wooaaaah

so much i disagree with there

i read over that quote you pasted and arno just feels like such a hollywood character

Right. And everything I mention about Ezio, and the comparisons, are thrown out the window because opinion made. Oke...

I mean, the point I'm trying to make is that the Ezio Trilogy games are worse than Unity when it comes to story. I don't understand how you can despise Unity and Arno, but like Ezio and AC2 more. You haven't shed any light on that. The only conclusion would be that you prefer generic Hollywood characters and stories with no depth or layers and are easy to absorb, but you seem to be keen on being just the opposite.

Unity is no Kenway Saga, but it's definitely not the worse story.


but its 1AM and i have low battery and already gave my opinion regarding his character a thousand times already hnghh

ill continue in the morning if feel need be

Eh, das cool.

It seems like we'll just go in circles again, so.

Assassin_M
01-09-2015, 07:31 AM
Whoops. I needa organize the quotes I copied.

God damn you, _M. Is it a funny discussion or a fun discussion? >>

Fun, as in it's interesting to read such articulate opinions. Granted, I disagree with Quirky on most things, it's fun seeing you two go at it.



http://rs919.pbsrc.com/albums/ad37/thebloodofkonstantin/reaction%20gifs/tumblr_mdg72sKsdL1qef2y7.gif~c200


:p
Oh come now, I meant in terms of being an EA incarnate. Shady Practices and all that jazz.


ah shoot i ruined ur fun discussion, M.

Ill continue morning i promise

im just sleepy QAQ
It's okay, mate. I enjoyed it nonetheless.

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 07:54 AM
Fun, as in it's interesting to read such articulate opinions. Granted, I disagree with Quirky on most things, it's fun seeing you two go at it.

Ohhhhh, oke. I'm glad you got a kick out of it. :p

Personally, I was just letting out some steam. Not from her, but from the many ridiculous criticisms and hypocrisy around the forum/reddit/YT. It's not personal, I love you all.

Bastiaen
01-09-2015, 04:51 PM
There seem to be two main camps: those who value story think Unity is awful, and those who value gameplay think it's great. I'm in the latter camp. You're also lucky that some of the biggest bugs were patched before you started playing. The game was a mess at launch.

The app remains annoying. It worked okay for me until the last missions, then it stopped synchronizing and preventing me from completing the game 100%. You likely won't find out if you'll have the same problem until you've already sunk several weeks into the app.

I value both, though I value story over gameplay, and I love Unity. It's my favorite AC. I can acknowledge that the modern day story had no progression, but I really enjoyed Arno's story.

dargor5
01-09-2015, 05:26 PM
I value both, though I value story over gameplay, and I love Unity. It's my favorite AC. I can acknowledge that the modern day story had no progression, but I really enjoyed Arno's story.

I also love Arno story shows him as more human than Assassin, though I feel the story was very short, him and Elisse should have had more time together in missions that matter more (the balloon chasing was well no words)

auditorevita
01-09-2015, 05:42 PM
UBI give pleasure to a small number of people ,but

UBI given despair to Many people.

UBI was able to give pleasure to all AC's fan.

However , UBI did not do it .

UBI go to the bad . I'm sad.





_protest to UBI now
                                                                                              _UBI be change the story of ACU.

SixKeys
01-09-2015, 06:35 PM
UBI give pleasure to a small number of people ,but

UBI was able to give pleasure to both .


https://elrincondelohumano.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/meme-ms-bean.png

wickywoowoo
01-09-2015, 07:52 PM
So I am back after another night of playing and I am now officially an Assassin and stuff. I can see what people mean with the map. I have so much stuff to do on the game map nevermind mixing the App stuff to unlock and expand my character, it's almost sensory overload. I struggle to actually pick what I will do next. One part of me likes that they have pretty much gone "here is everything, do the stuff you enjoy most" while another feels staggering it all out as the game moves on may have helped. I'll do most of it all anyway but when picking things to do... it's chaos, lol.

Still not hit a point where I feel this game is anything less than very good though. Let's see how far I get.

Fatal-Feit
01-09-2015, 08:01 PM
I recommend completing districts by districts. It'll make things easier for you.

Or be like me and spend an entire day or two just collecting all of the collectibles such as chests and cockades first so that the map will only be full of rich missions.

JustPlainQuirky
01-09-2015, 08:23 PM
Granted, I disagree with Quirky on most things


I get that a lot OTL

Assassin_M
01-09-2015, 08:28 PM
https://elrincondelohumano.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/meme-ms-bean.png
I laughed so hard.

bitebug2003
01-09-2015, 09:04 PM
I recommend completing districts by districts. It'll make things easier for you.

Or be like me and spend an entire day or two just collecting all of the collectibles such as chests and cockades first so that the map will only be full of rich missions.

That's what I'm doing

I have a love/hate relationship with this game - I enjoy it, and then there are bits I don't enjoy :S