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JRT894
03-23-2004, 08:58 AM
Being a new user to IL2 and looking to upgrade my joystick, I was wondering which type experienced users would recommend.

Presumably a hat switch and throttle control are essential.

JRT894
03-23-2004, 08:58 AM
Being a new user to IL2 and looking to upgrade my joystick, I was wondering which type experienced users would recommend.

Presumably a hat switch and throttle control are essential.

RevvinUK
03-23-2004, 09:56 AM
If I were you I'd look no further than CH Products (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/index.html) Of course it depeds on your budget as to what you buy but even if you can't afford the full HOTAS setup (Hands On Throttle And Stick) you can buy each CH controller separately and slowly build up to a full HOTAS setup while still benefitting from the reliability, durability and programmability of these controllers. Their customer care is also second to none IMHO.

Revvin

The CH Hangar - Profiles, scripting ideas and discussion for CH users (http://www.ch-hangar.com)

madsarmy
03-23-2004, 11:19 AM
http://www.thrustmaster.co.uk/products/d_prd.php?p=T62&fam=6

http://mysite.freeserve.com/fbscreenshots/images/0-picture.jpg

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horseback
03-23-2004, 11:29 AM
JRT, I'm the proud & happy owner of the CH Products complete HOTAS setup, but then, I'm a confirmed addict. CH products do not offer mid-level sticks with a twist rudder; at a minimum, you'll spend almost $200US for the minimum USB stick and rudder pedals.

For a beginner, or someone able to limit himself to less than 8 hours a week, something a little less pricey is recommended, unless he has money to burn (and if you do, I have some investments I'd like to discuss...). With MS's withdrawal from the joystick market, I can only warn you to avoid Logitech products, because they usually don't seem to last very long.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-23-2004, 01:23 PM
Addicted or no...CH is the way to go. As I've said before, I've owned and used heavily almost every Mid-level to high end controller from Saitek , logitech, MS, Thrustmaster and CH.

The investment is substantial, but the return on your investment is more substantial.

Do NOT "settle" when it comes to your controllers...period.



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BpGemini
03-23-2004, 01:28 PM
I like my Logitech Freedom.

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aerick2
03-23-2004, 01:33 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned my beloved Saitek X45 (http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x45.htm) yet.

Ragman_
03-23-2004, 01:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aerick2:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned my beloved http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x45.htm yet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Especially at this price (http://store.yahoo.com/saitekusa/recprod.html). Refurb direct from Saitek. Got mine that way and it came in original box in mint condition. No probs, had it about a year or so now.

InyerEye
03-23-2004, 02:08 PM
CH Products

http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/Fw190-5.jpg

Spinne_3.-JG51
03-23-2004, 02:30 PM
I've a Thrustmaster stick, and CH pedals. Of the two, while the CH pedals have slightly better workmanship, neither have given me any problems. A throttle control on the stick is essential, as is a HAT switch. Avoid getting a twist stick, unless you can lock the twist function. You'd be well advised to go to a local computer hardware store and seeing the quality of craftsmenship on different vendors before you settle on a particular brand. Look for the sturdiness of the buttons (people tend to get rough while flying), and make sure you can adjust the stiffness of the stick, so that you can make it loose for a bomber, and hard for a fighter. The three most popular brands are CH, Thrustmaster and Saitek, with some people flying on Logitech as well. Oh, lastly, make sure it's a USB device, and not a gameport device.

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maxim26
03-23-2004, 03:05 PM
Love x45

artjunky
03-23-2004, 03:18 PM
I've liked Microsoft's Force Feedback 2. However, it just doesn't have enough buttons on it...where it counts. Currently, I use the logiteck joystick because I dropped my microsoft js too often. The Logitech hasn't been bad, plenty of buttons on top, twist...but that one has also been dropped too often and is starting to show the effects.

I've owned the saitek x45 but I took it back because the springs were just too inflexible. Because of the stifness, it was hard for me to make fine aiming adjustments.

The item that I like the most, but it's not a joystick is the Belkin Nostromo

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=2071&pcount=&Product_Id=157024

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JRT894
03-23-2004, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Revvin_UK:
If I were you I'd look no further than http://www.chproducts.com/retail/index.html Of course it depeds on your budget as to what you buy but even if you can't afford the full HOTAS setup (Hands On Throttle And Stick) you can buy each CH controller separately and slowly build up to a full HOTAS setup while still benefitting from the reliability, durability and programmability of these controllers. Their customer care is also second to none IMHO.

Revvin

http://www.ch-hangar.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So is it best to get separate Joystick, Throttle Controller and Pedals?

El Turo
03-23-2004, 04:05 PM
I'm a bigger fella (6'5+ and about 230lbs) and I have no problems with the X45 at all in an ergonomic sense now that I've removed the pinkie switch. I use the CH Pro Pedals for rudder (the X45 rudder rocker arm is for sheeit)

However, the center-play slop is to the point now (appx 14-15 mos) where I'm going to have to buy a new stick because I can't deadband out all the slack even with 50 DB, and the first THREE sliders set to ZERO in the keymapping software in IL2FB. If you DO buy an X45, get it from a local retailer and spend the extra $10-15 on the 24 month in-store return policy.

I'm seriously leaning towards the CH products as my replacement, but I'm a little hesitant to give up the X45 throttle (lub my rotaries!).

Anyone given the CH Throttle Quadrant a good look? I've been thinking about buying it to replace the X45 throttle when it comes out this summer. Would be SUPER sweet to have all the multi-engine controls with mixture, pitch and trim controls all together.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
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RevvinUK
03-23-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So is it best to get separate Joystick, Throttle Controller and Pedals?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's all down to personal preference. I've used a stick with a twist rudder and did'nt like it and much prefer the separate joystick, throttle and rudder setup. Some users prefer the 'all in one' units though and I know some good virtual pilots that use such sticks. I think perhaps there is a little more immersion using a separate setup just as there is in the virtual cockpit (although they did'nt have hat switches http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

As I mentioned above you can buy CH gear a piece at a time and build up to a full HOTAS if your budget is tight. CH only do one set of rudder pedals and (until the CH Thottle Quadrant arrives in May) one throttle unit (the Pro Throttle) but you have a choice of three joysticks. The Flightstick (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/usb_flight_stick.html) is perhaps the entry level joystick CH produce and has less buttons and hat switches compared to their other two sticks but suitable for a WWII sim fan where the number of buttons available is not such a necessity as in a jet sim. Next you have the Combatstick (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/usb_combat_568.html) which has more buttons and hat switches than the Flightstick which makes it a little more versatile and makes for a good WWII/Jet sim joystick. CH's top end joystick is the Fighterstick (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/usb_fighter.html) this one has the most buttons and hat switches of all the joysticks CH make and is ideal for jet sim players as well as WWII sim players. This is the stick I use for IL-2, Lock-On, Falcon 4.0 etc.

Each of those sticks has a throttle wheel on the base of the stick so you would'nt have to buy a separate throttle unit straight away if your budget was tight although if you did buy the Pro Throttle you could use the joystick throttle wheel for elevator trim input or engine RPM control (I use it for RPM control) When used in conjunction with the 'Control Manager' software supplied by CH you can map three different modes (4 if you use CMS script) to each button and hat switch so you could perhaps have a mode for fighters, a mode for bomber controls etc. The software is easy to use, it's a GUI interface which shows you a picture of your controller and then you click on a button and assign a command. Once you become familiar with the basics you can move on and use CMS scripting if you wish to do more complex commands such as an automatic trim sequence, a fail safe ejection mode (ie requires a set sequence of buttons presses to initiate the ejection sequence) as well as changing the joystick axis responses and much much more.

Revvin

The CH Hangar - Profiles, scripting ideas and discussion for CH users (http://www.ch-hangar.com)

Lav69
03-23-2004, 04:49 PM
I recommend the Saitek X45. Especially since you are new. CH products are quite pricey. The X45, throttle and stick are $80 at circuit city. I love mine. I am gonna buy the CH Pro foot pedals soon though. Wifey isn't happy about that, but she'll get over it. ($115)

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Saitek X45

LeChuck59
03-23-2004, 05:50 PM
I'm happy with my Saitek X45.

You should know however that though vue1 supplied a link to a refurbished X45, they haven't been in stock for at least three months so if you want one, I'd suggest that you not wait for them to restock, because who knows how long that'll take, and just buy it new.

Guelph2002
03-23-2004, 06:56 PM
Fellow simmers!

Please keep this discussion going! I am getting fed up with my twitchy, less than precise Logitech Wingman Force 3D stick and I have no idea what to replace it with as of yet.

Thanks!

P.S. I had a CH FlightStick Pro for just over 10 years and it finally died - only the cost is preventing me from sticking with CH

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Bula
03-23-2004, 10:22 PM
I like my MS Force Feedback 2. I purchased the Saitek X45 just for the throttle and bought some CH Pro Pedals, too. The system works really well: I get the force feedback effects I like and my hands don't have to run all over the keyboard to get stuff done.

Now, if I could just get used to this TrackIR thing...

TD_Klondike
03-23-2004, 10:27 PM
Ten years out of it, and you're hesitant to replace it?

I've got old CH gameport gear that I've had for four years, and I'm not even close to exhausting it.

Bearcat99
03-23-2004, 11:26 PM
I keep saying this...... and I will till I drop....for those of you with X45s... or those who dont like the X45 stick....but are looking for a new setup and are serious about your simming..... GET AN X45...... also find just a stick that you are comfortable with... try a FFB Saitek or FFB Logitech but try a FFB (I use a MSFFB2 as my main flight stick)....AND get the X45!!! FB supports multiple sticks so if you hate the X45 stick..... like I do cause my hands are rather big... use the stick as a button bay and use the throttle and whatever other stick you like. You figure... you will spend from $166-$200 on a CH throttle and either flight/fighter/combat stick (If you go here (http://www.provantage.com/) otherwise it could be more)......... just a stick and throttle...with no FFB...(For the tactile flight response feel and immersion FFB cant be beat.... forget about the gun recoil if that turns you off... I have mine off). For $100-$160 (depending on where you buy....here (http://www.provantage.com/) or retail) you can get the FFB stick of your choice (Logitech Strike Force 3-D,Force 3-D,Saitek FFB stick) and a X45 throttle...AND a GREAT button bay that is just sitting there , stiff spring and all..off to the side with 2 hats (4 way or 8 way) and 6 buttons that can be programmed in 3 modes...(actually 6 but 3 is all you will ever need if you consider the throttle buttons, switches and hats too). If you choose to use the 4-way hat configuration like I did..(8 way hats are just too sensitive for a button bay IMO) thats still 14 commands that you can put on the X45 stick alone.....IN ONE MODE... When you consider the throttle and it's 2 rotaries, 2 3-way switches,one rocker switch, 2 buttons and one mouse/4-way hat/8- way hat....... You have a smorgasbord of immersion for a minimal cost. Even if you get a product replacement plan with each stick you are STILL WAAAAY ahead of the game. Get a set of CH pedals and TIR (which I dont have yet.. the TIR I mean) and your immersion is through the roof...and thats what its all about..... IMMERSION BABY!!! I have every function you can think of for the single engined planes in FB on my stick...EVERY FUNCTION..... even some of the obscure ones I only use on cetain planes... like all the K-14 sight adjustments......... and divebrakes for the Stuka & P-38.... with room to spare..... I havent set up a multi enginned profile yet but I'll get around to it eventually. This set up is..in my humble opinion of course...hands down the very best way to go. You get the replacement plan if you go retail like best Buy or CUSA and you are set...... The benifits of FFB are incredible.... I dont use the gun recoil at all... it spoils my aim, wears my stick out too soon, and makes too much noise.... but the flight feedback....that is where having FFB shines... just feeling that lazy wing when you take a few hits... FEELING that shudder as you approach the stall.... it's priceless!!!

If you cant afford the pedals yet cool.... just map your rudder to either the X45 rocker or the other sticks twist handle.. which ever is most comfortable to you. Still the added controls at your fingertips instead of your keyboard will be great.

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Neww_Guy
03-24-2004, 01:24 AM
MS FFB original sticks go cheap on ebay- worth a look? I got a couple- tried others- but the original Force feedback MS stick feels best to me. Got me one for 10 bucks including shipping last month!

Punik
03-24-2004, 02:02 AM
I myself have Microsoft Force Feedback 2. I had a FF1 for 4 years of intense flying and when I was selling it, it was still as precise as when I bought it, it showed almost no signs of wearing out. That was the main reason why I bought myself FF2 and from my point of view it is joystick with BEST INTERNALS EVER. The truth is, that there is a problem with buttons (there are 4 "wrongly placed"), but hey - who needs buttons anyway? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I usually link my gunfire to one button, rockets to other one, freelook with mouse, so HOTAS is used for 8 more functions, so that leaves me with 2 spare buttons on the handle, which I have not assignet yet, and I am a IL2 enthusiatist for a QUITE while now... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif BTW that is the reason why force feedback is a must have for me - you can really feel the way you fly and that is 33 percent of immersion... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But, as a wise men say - it is all matter of personal preference.

------------------------------------
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El Turo
03-24-2004, 02:09 AM
Wise man say.. he who go through airport turnstile sideways going to Bangkok!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.

El Turo
03-24-2004, 02:11 AM
On a more serious note..

I have the X45/Pro-Pedals setup now and I've enjoyed it, but I'm kind of waffling on whether or not to replace the X45 stick with the CH-product stick.

I dunno.

I kind of want to look into getting the CH Throttle Quadrant thing this summer, but it may not fit on my desk! Heh.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
Amidst morning clouds
Fork-tailed devil hunts its prey
Lightning strikes, süsse träume.