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View Full Version : Bring back the old Assassin's Creed Combat/stealth system



TheSimonGray
01-02-2015, 09:00 AM
So there are a couple of things that have been bothering me about Assassin's Creed unity; the new combat and stealth system.

Starting with the combat; the new system while it adds a challenge, is frustrating and feels slow and clunky compared to the fast fluid combat of the games from AC Brotherhood to Black Flag/ Rogue and although people say that the old system's counter kills and chain kills made it too easy, I and hopefully others found it fun and more entertaining than the new system that makes even a single opponent frustrating and tedious at times, not to mention a group where two of the most frustrating archetypes will hold you down, and the other 5 will shoot/bomb you with no way to really defend against it and a firing icon that has a 50/50 chance of actually appearing when they are going to shoot makes the combat aspect of the game feel more like a chore than the smooth flowing combat of the predecessors. Especially now that all counters do are "stun" an enemy for a second but they can go back to blocking or dodging almost straight away unless you have the strongest weapon in the game and kill them quick enough, also the new executions that only work when the enemy is already "dead" just make the combat odd in groups when suddenly an enemy will start swaying around because you had to dodge backwards from another enemy before you could finish them which just adds to the clunky feeling, the effect of all now seems more like you are just a man swinging a sword/spear at the enemy till they die/look drunk instead of the skillful finesse of past assassins that could suddenly end an enemy in one stroke, and it was also reassuring and took the pressure away while being stealthy when you knew that if you make a mistake you can handle a few enemies with ease. The old combat system was unique especially now that most sandbox combat games are using the Batman Arkham style system which when done right can be amazing however that's just not the style of Assassin's Creed and sadly it isn't done right. Lastly for the combat, removing the hidden blade as its own weapon is a mistake, the hidden blade is an iconic weapon specific to the series, a weapon that players rush through the prologue sections of the game to get as quickly as possible to feel like a full assassin, however now that it has been made contextual it takes away from and undermines the moment that you finally get it because now its just a useless tool unless you meet the requirements to use it.

Now onto stealth. The stealth mechanics in the game are largely the same as they used to be which is fine however the thing i find most frustrating is that guards can see you literally anywhere unless you are inside a building behind a wall, they will spot you if you are anywhere near 180 degrees of their faces, so when you are outside its frustrating that anyone looking in your general direction 3 stories below will spot you cause apparently every guard in the city is permanently looking up which makes stealth annoying and takes away from the feeling of being a sneaky well trained elite assassin.

So essentially you end up with a game where stealth is just frustrating and a combat system designed to be tedious in order to encourage the aforementioned flawed stealth system which just makes the gameplay feel tedious and frustrating instead of fun (aside from the parkour at least) all in all i can't help but feel that Assassin's Creed has lost its way somewhat and as a fan of the series from day one i find myself missing the days when it was about finding a way to stop the templars using memories and how the past affects the future/present day. i hope that well for one that i'm not the only one who feels this way and two that the Devs of the next Assassin's Creed take the time to consider these changes to bring Assassin's Creed back to what it used to be.

PS. to all the people who read this and say "well why don't you go back and play AC 2 then!" or "go play batman arkham then" why should i have to play an older outdated game simply because i like mechanics that could easily be adapted to appease both old fans and the new? I also want to see where this story goes, do they beat the templars? who wins in all of this? what are the consequences. Also if i wanted to play Batman i would go and play Batman Arkham but the thing is i don't want to play batman i want to play as an assassin roaming around historical landscapes in Assassin's Creed, a series that i have absolutely loved since the first game. so much like i said earlier why should i have to play a game in a series i don't care about just because i prefer a few easily adapted mechanics?

similarly
01-02-2015, 02:06 PM
Guards seeking you through walls is some kind of bug. Some people have that and some don't. However, they WILL hear a fight from pretty far away and come running. This is actually a GOOD thing because it forces me to play stealth. It also means when I use berserk darts, the fun is ENORMOUS compared to previous games.

WingedHussar_PL
01-02-2015, 03:43 PM
The new combat system is very good. Why you want make it easy and boring as AC4 ? My 8 year daughter can win most of the fighting in AC4. Maybe you should equip better weapon, pistols, clothes and improve your tactics, use bombs...

TH3R4BB1T
01-02-2015, 04:52 PM
To much text, to less headings and paragraphs...

All that I missed in Unity was:
- Pick up weapons from a killed enemy
- Disarm/take over weapon from enemy

What I disliked in Combat of Unity
- You are 'finishing' an enemy and others are going to attack you, while you can't parry at that moment
- To many enemies shooting at once

I liked the stealth, mostly if you berserk an enemy from a cover and you can safely observe.

Aenigmatix
01-02-2015, 05:14 PM
They changed the combat system because everyone was complaining so much about how the old system was too easy.

Now that they've changed it in a way that makes combat more difficult, and discourages you from taking on massive armies at once, people are still complaining and want the old system back. Ridiculous. Ubisoft literally can't do anything right, can they?

Please god do not bring back the old combat system in future AC titles, especially if co-op is going to continue being a feature down the road. The current system actually gives you an incentive to avoid combat, something I wish more people would realize in co-op when they rush into battles and ruin the rewards for all of us in heist missions.

And as for stealth - there was no dedicated stealth mode before Unity. "Stealth" in previous AC titles meant running from bush to bush hoping no one would see you. Guards cannot see you from behind, so I don't know what you're talking about there. Their depth perception is a lot better than it used to be, and now guards can actually see you from a distance. If anything that's simply more realistic than previous AC games, and not something I cannot seriously complain about.

wichking
01-02-2015, 06:33 PM
All ppl who complain about the new system should stop palyinjg assassins creed.. Only thing what i dislike is the system is not finished properly. Guards should get alerted when they see a dead body and look for me. This : "oh a dead body, nvm i ll go back to my pst" thing is just soo ******ed. Especially on missions with large crowds at a party and noone even cares about the dead bodies

Misterblub006
01-02-2015, 06:57 PM
To much text, to less headings and paragraphs...

What I disliked in Combat of Unity
1 You are 'finishing' an enemy and others are going to attack you, while you can't parry at that moment
2 To many enemies shooting at once

I liked the stealth, mostly if you berserk an enemy from a cover and you can safely observe.

1. That isnt true - you can counter enemys when your finishing
2. that sucks really - thats true - some times im felling that ima playing BF4 and evry player is shootin at me <_< *wheres my nade?*

dargor5
01-02-2015, 07:24 PM
I think with many changes on ACU they wanted to go back to the roots of AC1 where you really had to be stealth to survive, so in unity combat is not so good in a way to discourage it. After all the time period is nearing were the main weapon is a gun and well you cant avoid a bullet. What does pains me is the BS firing from the enemies. Theres no way you can shake a shot unless you smoke them, they will shoot through people and get you with extreme accuracy so running is no option either.
Hope that last part gets fixed sometime or at least give us some back story, like enemies been trained by the assassins from Wanted

Fatal-Feit
01-02-2015, 08:05 PM
The old combat systems sucked. It was always either tedious, repetitive, or just plain broken (I'm looking at you, Brotherhood). Unity's is no more fun, but it still has a ton more difficulty. My only main gripe with Unity's combat are the auto-sheathing. --OH GAWD, PATCH THAT NOW.

The stealth in Unity is the best it has ever been. It could use some work, but for once, it's actually stealth with a crouching mechanic. Not the pseudo stealth they tried to pass off pre-Black Flag. I mean, Black Flag's stealth was a little better, but it was too contextual (i.e - crouching was automatic). It never clicked with me, nor did assassinations have the UMFF feeling like in Unity.

YazX_
01-02-2015, 08:16 PM
Well its mixed opinions on this one, but i for one hate the new combat system and its the most frustrating part of the game and love to have the old one back, i believe the only way to solve this for all players and satisfy everyone's taste is by adding combat options like enabling/disabling chain kills, human shield , finishers,.....

my main problem with this one is its not new at all, its AC2 combat system integrated with AC3 one while removing the ability to chain kills and take human shield, the problem here is in AC2 there were no guns, so it worked fine although it was somehow boring to keep hitting each enemy until death, so they resolved it in ACB and later by adding chain kills, now they are going back to this old system, to be honest i dont know whats challenging in this mode, parry and kill, i'd rather cut the time needed by chain kills instead of doing that, most annoying thing is the excessive amount on gun shots while they also stripped the ability to dodge/roll while in middle of striking or finishing your target, that doesnt making it challenging rather than flawed.

Regarding stealth, its mixed opinions as well , as the crouch ability added no value to stealth, this game doesn't need a crouch ability, lots of people have been requesting this since along time and i believe this game proves that crouch button doesnt fit, i have never used it to be honest, in addition, removing whistle is a very big frustrating part, now you have to go and let them see you then hide so they come to investigate and perform your corner kills which is not practical at all. However, i didnt mind having crouch ability at all since you can use it or not, it depends on the player and his play style, so no harm done here.

i dont know the reason they decided to remove all things that worked great in previous versions, but in my honest opinion, it was wrong to strip them all.

dargor5
01-02-2015, 08:22 PM
Well its mixed opinions on this one, but i for one hate the new combat system and its the most frustrating part of the game and love to have the old one back, i believe the only way to solve this for all players and satisfy everyone's taste is by adding combat options like enabling/disabling chain kills, human shield , finishers,.....

my main problem with this one is its not new at all, its AC2 combat system integrated with AC3 one while removing the ability to chain kills and take human shield, the problem here is in AC2 there were no guns, so it worked fine although it was somehow boring to keep hitting each enemy until death, so they resolved it in ACB and later by adding chain kills, now they are going back to this old system, to be honest i dont know whats challenging in this mode, parry and kill, i'd rather cut the time needed by chain kills instead of doing that, most annoying thing is the excessive amount on gun shots while they also stripped the ability to dodge/roll while in middle of striking or finishing your target, that doesnt making it challenging rather than flawed.

Regarding stealth, its mixed opinions as well , as the crouch ability added no value to stealth, this game doesn't need a crouch ability, lots of people have been requesting this since along time and i believe this game proves that crouch button doesnt fit, i have never used it to be honest, in addition, removing whistle is a very big frustrating part, now you have to go and let them see you then hide so they come to investigate and perform your corner kills which is not practical at all. However, i didnt mind having crouch ability at all since you can use it or not, it depends on the player and his play style, so no harm done here.

i dont know the reason they decided to remove all things that worked great in previous versions, but in my honest opinion, it was wrong to strip them all.

What I do is counter all the time, this way is a one slice kill for the most part specially on heavy weapons, not so much for long ones

YazX_
01-02-2015, 08:30 PM
What I do is counter all the time, this way is a one slice kill for the most part specially on heavy weapons, not so much for long ones

Yah i know but the combat system is too slow which is also an annoying side of it, so eventually i got bored, i started to throw smoke in every fight, charge hit and one hit kill but it doesnt feel the same as chain kills :S.

dargor5
01-02-2015, 08:46 PM
Yah i know but the combat system is too slow which is also an annoying side of it, so eventually i got bored, i started to throw smoke in every fight, charge hit and one hit kill but it doesnt feel the same as chain kills :S.

I get you and I kinda feel the same way. I say kinda because I do think the combat sucks in unity but I see that is also not supposed to be that good since you are supposed to be stealthy.

Take AC3 for example. That game did not encourage stealth mechanics, since getting through the roofs was a pain with 4 to 5 snipers every two rooftops, many missions do not include a stealth point, but the combat on AC 3 is very flashy with all the kill moves with the tomahawk and blades.

I believe even though ubi says theres complete freedom to do things the way you like in unity they are in some way forcing you to use stealth with bad combat

TH3R4BB1T
01-02-2015, 09:50 PM
So the best system is?

Combat
- Disarming enemy during fights
- Counter/parry
- Interrupt finishers when attacked
- Human shield
- Chain kills

Stealth/sneak
- Whistle
- Cover kills
- Peek around a corner
- Crouch (to sneak kill an enemy)

I really liked the new free running.

YazX_
01-03-2015, 12:01 AM
I get you and I kinda feel the same way. I say kinda because I do think the combat sucks in unity but I see that is also not supposed to be that good since you are supposed to be stealthy.

Take AC3 for example. That game did not encourage stealth mechanics, since getting through the roofs was a pain with 4 to 5 snipers every two rooftops, many missions do not include a stealth point, but the combat on AC 3 is very flashy with all the kill moves with the tomahawk and blades.

I believe even though ubi says theres complete freedom to do things the way you like in unity they are in some way forcing you to use stealth with bad combat

Exactly, you are right 100% and thats my whole point, and since i don't like stealth, this broke the whole experience for me since the game keep forcing you to go stealthy, but i kept fighting my own way to do it "Like A Boss" (kill everyone) way :)


So the best system is?

Combat
- Disarming enemy during fights
- Counter/parry
- Interrupt finishers when attacked
- Human shield
- Chain kills

Stealth/sneak
- Whistle
- Cover kills
- Peek around a corner
- Crouch (to sneak kill an enemy)

I really liked the new free running.

so we are back to AC3/AC4 combat system which IMO is the best one, for stealth, i do agree that this would work for everyone.