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View Full Version : Suggestion to look tracks shipped with AEP



Oleg_Maddox
03-04-2004, 03:14 AM
I also recommend to look for the new tracks shipped with AEP.

These that are for Go-229 and Me-163 show exactly how need to be attacked B-17s and how to escape any looses.

For one pass there is possible to destroy up to 3 bombers if you will lucky enough like our pilots in office of 1C:Maddox Games.

Same tacktics must be applied for piston aircraft and hope then nobody will again compline that rear gunners are too good....

With these sample tracks shown the tactic that used Germans in reality and that described in many LW docs and training films.


Note: Some skins and marking in tracks are not siutable for the areas(maps) whee they recorded. But we had other goal - to show the advantages/disadvantages of some planes as well as right use of SPB and Mistel for example.

Oleg_Maddox
03-04-2004, 03:14 AM
I also recommend to look for the new tracks shipped with AEP.

These that are for Go-229 and Me-163 show exactly how need to be attacked B-17s and how to escape any looses.

For one pass there is possible to destroy up to 3 bombers if you will lucky enough like our pilots in office of 1C:Maddox Games.

Same tacktics must be applied for piston aircraft and hope then nobody will again compline that rear gunners are too good....

With these sample tracks shown the tactic that used Germans in reality and that described in many LW docs and training films.


Note: Some skins and marking in tracks are not siutable for the areas(maps) whee they recorded. But we had other goal - to show the advantages/disadvantages of some planes as well as right use of SPB and Mistel for example.

clint-ruin
03-04-2004, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
For one pass there is possible to destroy up to 3 bombers if you will lucky enough like our pilots in office of 1C:Maddox Games.

Same tacktics must be applied for piston aircraft and hope then nobody will again compline that rear gunners are too good....


Let's hope so.

I think it might be a little like an unstoppable whine meeting an immovable reality :>

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

StG77_Stuka
03-04-2004, 12:39 PM
Thanks for Info Oleg! This will be longest day of my life; UPS truck will deliver AEP late afternoon.... :-D tick- toc tick-toc

immele
03-05-2004, 02:40 AM
lucky enough..? hmmm..... ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ok , the Contest is on ! :

"Maddox-office-Pilots" vs. "Rest of the World"

The Olympic Sitting-Duck-games are on !!

please , give us time to practice in europe

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

OsA_FW
03-05-2004, 01:39 PM
S!

I did enjoy it very much !!!

<i>
except for ... was mouse used to look around? i think yes ...

dont you have TiR ???

</i>
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

couldnot resist

WWMaxGunz
03-05-2004, 07:20 PM
The tracks are great! In places the word awesome actually fits!

Oleg... I like especially tracks that show things called impossible like the single plane torpedo attack with exit right straight over the topmast of the gunboat and oh yes that Stukas attack on the Marat that shows how damage to the ship is made in pieces. Also the bomber busting without the gunners decimating the attackers. Tracks like these put to rest claims opposite! Good work and I am sure good fun for the office aces! Good Value for us too!


Neal

tolwyn.com
03-06-2004, 02:45 AM
Hehehe.
The Me-163 was recorded at 1/2 speed at times, and then re-filmed at "normal" speed plus, of course, all the camera angles. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So. Although those approaches to attacking B17s may be good for IL2:FB the GAME, having whoever did the flying actually pull it off at normal speed at record time would be a bit more impressive. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

hehehe. It's a nice way to record "stunt tracks" though!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bull_Pup
03-06-2004, 11:09 AM
Oleg,

Was TrackIR being used by the pilot during those flights?

The cockpit panning in the sample tracks is always very smooth so I was curious.

Cool tracks! They showcase AEP very well.

Serious eye candy.

WWMaxGunz
03-07-2004, 07:54 PM
You can replay a track with manual time and view control and then save the changes into the track or another. Even pause the action, change view and timing, zoom in and out, then resume motion. Easy to make a movie that way with amazing views.


Neal

Bull_Pup
03-08-2004, 05:45 PM
ty for the info Max.

Capt._Tenneal
03-08-2004, 11:35 PM
I just saw the AEP tracks, having just got my copy, and they are amazing indeed. I did a double-take too when that GO-229 downed the 3 B-17s in one pass.

mohamedobra
03-10-2004, 07:21 PM
MOHAMED
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
You can replay a track with manual time and view control and then save the changes into the track or another. Even pause the action, change view and timing, zoom in and out, then resume motion. Easy to make a movie that way with amazing views.


Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pcpilot_MGG
03-14-2004, 10:06 AM
HOLY CRAP! That GO229 pilot kicked some serious allied BUTT! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

The actual LW pilots had about 3-6 seconds to fire in a headon closing situation. It also exposed them to the least firepower the shortest possible time in their attacks against the B-17 combat boxes. As the track also showed, the 30MM cannon with explosive rounds could easily rip a wing off. The track does a good job of showing this tactic and weaponry in action. That last B-17 was shredded when the pilot continued to fire. I learned the hard way about stern attacks on a massed formation. It wasnt as hard for the tail-gunner, or the guys in the upper and lower turrets, to hit someone coming in astern flying relatively straight and level at only a marginally higher speed than your aircraft. You complainers should also keep in mind that many of the LW pilots were experianced veterans that had fought the war for years. This kind of attack was just another way to come home at the end of another day. If the Germans had been able to employ GO's in numbers, the bomber campaign woulda been in serious jepardy.

Oleg, let me say that you fellas have done an OUTSTANDING job on this sim. Ive never had so much fun flying. Its a challenge too which I like. I used to hate takeoffs but have come to realize how real they are. The landings are my favorite. And if I nail an enemy in-between, well, Ima happy camper. The visuals are outstanding, your support of your products are outstanding, and the gameplay, 3D models, and flight models are the best there is. Keep up the good work pal and give your boys who helped with this a beer on me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

______________________________
A Proud son of the South
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AMD Athlon 1800+ cpu on Gigabyte Triton K7 with Nforce chipset.
512MB PC-2700 RAM
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and my own uncanny ability to screw all this up...

carguy_
03-31-2004, 08:09 AM
Even if I still think the AI gunners are too good,the historical tactics applied against B17 work great.

All is left is to repair the DM and it`ll be ok.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

SE_Agent_0069
04-27-2004, 07:43 PM
When did a GO ever shoot down a B17 in real life? Never.

Only two GO's flew; one crashed the other did not. None were operational in combat.

So what does this prove? It sounds like a fantasy to me...

BennyMoore
05-05-2004, 11:16 AM
The point is that you can shoot down bombers without being hit. However, I must agree that in spite of this, the artificial intelligence in the gunner positions is far too good. It makes it pointless for a human to be a gunner, because the computer does many times better.

gates123
07-02-2004, 02:37 PM
Oops

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/index_photos/gunslinging.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

TheJoyStick
07-04-2004, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BennyMoore:
The point is that you can shoot down bombers without being hit. However, I must agree that in spite of this, the artificial intelligence in the gunner positions is far too good. It makes it pointless for a human to be a gunner, because the computer does many times better.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, I disagree... Often times, I'm flying a 110, and my gunner is firing, and firing, and firing, but the persuer isn't getting hit.. However, he's hitting me quite frequently, so I switch to gunner, let my AI take the plane up, and put the guy behind me down. I do a mighty fine job of gunning.

I think it comes from my lack of actual piloting skill.

XyZspineZyX
07-05-2004, 06:16 PM
You people are missing the point, as usual.

The head-on pass against B-17 boxes was a historical tactic, sure, but it was usually done in Staffel and even Gruppe strength, hoping for a mass of fire to create stragglers (which incidentally were mopped up using stern and high side attacks). Amazing what multiple targets at high closure rates, plus friendly planes in the line of fire will do to confound gunner firing solutions. This tactic was "safer" because it minimized the time in the gunners' cones, but it also offered the least effective shot: it is incredibly hard to hit a target even as big as a B-17 when the combined closure rate is over 800 mph, and you have every chance to collide with it. A high side pass was proven by ALL adversaries to be much more effective: it offered a better target, a longer firing window, and as a 3D attack, it was hard for gunners to deal with. However, of course, in IL-2, gunners seem to have a lot less trouble figuring out the geometry than the real gunners did.

Also, the Germans did these attacks, high side and headon alike, with 109s and Focke Wulfs and not fantasy planes with 30mm bristling from them (er, not until the Me262, at least).

So NONE of this changes the fact that slashing side attacks and *fast* attacks from stern that did NOT "slowly climb up the bomber's chuff and offer an easy shot" were difficult ones for gunners, who only wished they *could* kill the pilot or disable the engine with their first burst, as happens all too frequently in IL-2. First person accounts are RIFE with examples of how gunners normally couldn't hit anything but AIR under most circumstances, but, to be fair could occasionally put a slug in an engine or in a canopy. Overclaiming among bomber and flex gunners was HUGE, even when compared to the overclaiming done by fighter pilots, which was in itself substantial by all sides throughout the war.

Don't pat this game's AI gunner routines on the back based on this little fantasy track. In more ways than one, this just didn't happen.

SeaFireLIV
07-06-2004, 05:49 AM
Oleg, stick with the gunner AI as they are. Do not even try. You fix it one way others moan about it being too weak, you make AI gunners better new whiners will pipe to say its too good. Everyone here thinks they have the perfect idea of how the gunners should be and you CANNOT please them all.

No more cow-towing to whiners . Stay with your researched facts, Oleg. Thank you.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Yakgirlgo.jpg
Time to Escape!

Want to see more? go here: http://seafire.dreyermachine.com/
(Fantasy sections for mature viewers only).

XyZspineZyX
07-06-2004, 03:30 PM
Translation of the rant of fanboi SeaFire:

The status quo works for me and the planes I fly, so it must be right.

SeaFireLIV
07-06-2004, 06:10 PM
Translation from Stiglr`s rants:

`All bow to me I`m right, I should have made IL2 not Oleg, blah,blah, blaaaahhhhh!`

Go back to your fanboi online `everyone must pay` sim and leave us. Instead of pursuing your agenda of destroying IL2 FB.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Yakgirlgo.jpg
Time to Escape!

Want to see more? go here: http://seafire.dreyermachine.com/
(Fantasy sections for mature viewers only).

WTE_Galway
07-06-2004, 09:22 PM
Wish List:

I would like to see AI pilot skill and AI gunnery skill made independantly variable.

It would also begood to have the facility to have a spread of gunner skills among the AI gunners so some gunners shoot better than others.

SeaFireLIV
07-07-2004, 06:18 PM
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/whinersend.jpg

Listening to constant unproven and unfactual whines and trying to please them all will only destroy FB, Oleg...

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Wed July 07 2004 at 05:56 PM.]

Nub_322Sqn
07-18-2004, 03:36 AM
Ever since that "The Bf110 is dead to me until I figured out how to start it's engines" post from Stiglr I will never take another post of him serious.

The only thing he does over here is complain, whine, act like he knows everything about anything and turn nearly every thread he posts in into a mud slinging contest.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg