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View Full Version : [Possible Spoilers] Arno is probably the worst protagonist in the series



Journey95
12-26-2014, 02:59 PM
really Ubisoft? after the likes of Edward Kenway and Connor and before Ezio we get Arno? one of the big reasons why Unity's story fails if you ask methe dude is a walking cliche and very dullAfter AC4 annoucement many thought that Edward was just an Ezio clone because soo many people hated on Connor (for being different) but thankfully that wasn't the casenow with Unity the fears became real I guess many got what they wanted -.-here's hoping for awesome protagonist in Victory.. it will probably another ezio clone don't get me wrong I really liked Ezio but we need variety not the same old story

RinoTheBouncer
12-26-2014, 03:18 PM
I loved Arno, I loved Elise and I loved them together. My main problem with ACU was the ending and the total lack of modern day, first civ. and the lore. And I think Arno was good, of course he wasn’t the best, but he was good. I loved him. But I hated how he never bothered looking for his father’s murderer. In ACU Abstergo Employee Handbook, there are letters from Arno to his father that he wrote after his death to cope with the loss, even as an adult. So that gave him even more depth and made me even more disappointed by the fact that he never even tried to seek his father’s killer who was the protagonist of the game that was released with ACU.

There’s just too much closeness between AC:Ro and AC:U, yet Arno never even bothered looking back to that fact despite the strong effect of the trauma his father’s lost caused him. It was really sad and the ending was BEYOND cliche. Elise didn’t need to die. Her death was so unnecessary and it felt like it was just put there so that we’d feel sad, but no, it made me feel pissed because had she lived, the picture of an Assassin and Templar together righting what’s wrong with their own factions is so interesting and this ending just ruined it all for me.

Had the game ended with the Balloon scene for example, I would’ve given it 10/10, to be quite honest. But the ending ruined that, greatly. I’m sorry.

RADAR__4077
12-26-2014, 04:13 PM
I don't think Arno was the worst, but Ubisoft really dropped the ball with the story. No modern significance, wasting the excellent stage set by Rogue, throwing in the markings on the walls of the Bastille then never mentioning them again, and despite the cut scenes with the guillotine it doesn't feel like the reign of terror.

I actually think Edward was the worst. Has this sense of morality and is against killing innocent people by the end of the story, yet continues plundering ships and killing half the crew for nothing more than personal gain. I enjoy black flag, but it feels like you play as two different people depending on whether you are playing the story or just having fun exploring and pillaging.
Also Edward barely had anything to do with the assassins for most of the game. He just feels disconnected from the rest of the series because he just wants riches and fame... until he suddenly changes and becomes a good person...

Idk... Edward just doesn't do anything for me.

If it wasn't for the gameplay, black flag would have been a complete disappointment for me.

Namikaze_17
12-26-2014, 06:51 PM
There is no "Worst Protagonist".

Everyone's favorite is someone else's least favorite.

That said, I really didn't enjoy Arno, and consider him the worst thus far.


Looks like Aveline moves up the list. :rolleyes:

GoldenBoy9999
12-26-2014, 06:56 PM
I wouldn't say he's the "worst". I just can't put any other assassins below him. Adewale was even a protagonist, but he's one of my favorite characters.

Journey95
12-26-2014, 08:05 PM
There is no "Worst Protagonist".

Everyone's favorite is someone else's least favorite.

That said, I really didn't enjoy Arno, and consider him the worst thus far.


Looks like Aveline moves up the list. :rolleyes:

yeah you are right its of course only my opinion maybe the majority likes Arno who knows??
though somehow I doubt that

Shahkulu101
12-26-2014, 08:09 PM
As I've said before, he was a better version of Ezio in my opinion. Very well acted and genuinely funny. Wouldn't say I like his character more than ACR Ezio but I enjoyed playing as him nonetheless.

Namikaze_17
12-26-2014, 08:14 PM
As I've said before, he was a better version of Ezio in my opinion. Very well acted and genuinely funny. Wouldn't say I like his character more than ACR Ezio but I enjoyed playing as him nonetheless.

^ This.

andreycvetov
12-26-2014, 08:15 PM
The hate for Arno on these forums is enormous ,and I was ready to hate him to my guts ,but for my surprise I actually liked him and Elise also .I dont think that their romance was emphasized enough upon and I really wanted to feel the chemistry between them more .Apart from that ,I really enjoyed them .Maybe if the game had more screentime with character development ,then It would have been better but who knows . Oh Why did they put Napoleon, for 2 cutscenes ,in which only 1 he talked ?

bitebug2003
12-26-2014, 08:20 PM
Added a spoiler tag to the title - just as a pre-emptive measure

Shahkulu101
12-26-2014, 08:20 PM
^ This.

I thought you said you didn't like him? :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
12-26-2014, 08:26 PM
I thought you said you didn't like him? :rolleyes:

No, I don't like him.

I just agreed with what you said of him being a better version of Ezio and not being better than Revelations Ezio.

Hans684
12-26-2014, 08:41 PM
He's the most useless protagonist.

EmptyCrustacean
12-26-2014, 09:14 PM
As a character I like Arno but in terms of character motivation his is by far the weakest of the lot and that's because the story itself is the weakest of the lot.
At least with Ezio the game spent time trying to make you understand the relationship he had with his family before they tried to make you understand his need for revenge.
We got to see him develop into a true Assassin before our eyes. With Arno we didn't even get to see his relationships with all the people he allegedly cared about, the pacing was just too rushed to let anything breathe. One minute he was snogging Elise, next minute she's blaming him for his father's death and dumping him. One minute he's friends with Bellec, next minute they're fighting to the death. It was a mess. Also, with Arno the devs make the same mistake they made with Edward in that they tack on the character develop at the end. We never get to play as this changed man so it comes across as insincere, lazy and an afterthought.

JustPlainQuirky
12-26-2014, 09:20 PM
Arno sucks.

I agree, OP. But for diff reasons.

He lacks a proper character arc.

arthur-peresb13
12-27-2014, 04:43 PM
It's dificult to me say if i hate or not arno, but I'm sure there i don't like him. and he is the last in my list for sure

He got no conviction, no personality, he's not smart or inteligent as others protagonists, he don't interact with his time period, things look like he was having a vacation in paris during the revolution. He powerless and weak against Elise, she is the one that wears pants on this relationship, he's her puppy. He talk about his fathers death and redemption but never look for the murderer, he has 0% character development.

but to be fair with him I don't know if I have this feeling for the rush and poor campaing that unity present, or for himself. We don't have any suport character to make things interesting, the hole Templar conspiracy is so simple and lined, we don't have any target worth to remember, Germain has no time to do anything that make him close to others villains such charles Lee, Haytham, Robert de Sable, Rodrigo Borgia, Bartholomew Roberts, Al Mualin and so on. The game has no climax, the closest to this was the belec vs arno mission...

jamese1982
12-27-2014, 05:33 PM
The trouble I had with Arno was that he seemed such a great character who was busy assassinating people but not actually achieving anything.

I really thought when his father was murdered we was going to later on confront his killer, But it just seemed like we was assassinating people for no reason and all of a sudden the story ended.

If there was more interaction with Germain I may have been a bit more happy about Arno's reason for assassinating him.

Altair1789
12-27-2014, 08:45 PM
He was a more realistic AC2 and ACB Ezio, but I didn't like him either way. I think he had potential though, a better plot could've put him 3rd behind Alta´r and Connor

JustPlainQuirky
12-27-2014, 08:55 PM
I like AC2 Ezio more than Arno

I blame the presentation

Altair1789
12-27-2014, 10:37 PM
I think Connor and Haytham were the most realistic in personality, I'd love more protagonists like them

marvelfannumber
12-27-2014, 10:46 PM
Atleast AC2 Ezio had an understandable motivation (excluding the confusing ending of course), with Arno...I don't even understand what he wants or why.

He seeks the assassins for redemption, even though he rarely follows their rules and gets kicked out (so I don't even understand the redemption part).

He also wants Elise I guess, but we are never shown why, since they are already in love from the start of the game.

I guess i'll blame the poor writing and not the character himself, but I find it very hard to get invested in him like I did with AC3 or AC2s characters (which had similar issues in terms of story and writing).

The only characters I remember getting invested in for ACU were the characters in the opening with Jaques de Molay for some reason (why do I find that part much more interesting than the rest of the game? I am so confused).

Altair1789
12-27-2014, 10:59 PM
Atleast AC2 Ezio had an understandable motivation (excluding the confusing ending of course), with Arno...I don't even understand what he wants or why.

He seeks the assassins for redemption, even though he rarely follows their rules and gets kicked out (so I don't even understand the redemption part).

He also wants Elise I guess, but we are never shown why, since they are already in love from the start of the game.

I guess i'll blame the poor writing and not the character himself, but I find it very hard to get invested in him like I did with AC3 or AC2s characters (which had similar issues in terms of story and writing).

The only characters I remember getting invested in for ACU were the characters in the opening with Jaques de Molay for some reason (why do I find that part mich more interesting than the rest of the game? I am so confused).

I agree. There were only 4 characters I liked in that game, and they were Pierre Bellec, Jacques de Molay, Jacques' friend that we played as, and Thomas de Carneillon. Bellec because he was funny and I thought he was a dedicated assassin- unlike Arno, and then the rest because they weren't tainted with terrible writing, they only got like 5 seconds of screen time.

I liked Arno's voice actor, and wouldn't mind him returning in another game (not for Victory though, I'm still hoping Adrian Hough will do Samuel Fey's voice)

rrebe
12-27-2014, 11:05 PM
I liked Arno's voice actor, and wouldn't mind him returning in another game (not for Victory though, I'm still hoping Adrian Hough will do Samuel Fey's voice)

I wouldn't mind hearing more from him either, I liked his work in Unity :)

aL_____eX
12-27-2014, 11:10 PM
^ Sometimes Arno sounded soooo bored and tired in my opinion. But I guess that was because he was aware of the terrible character he was voice acting for. I mean, he sounded a bit like Connor but Noah had more of a wise touch to his voice.

marvelfannumber
12-28-2014, 12:12 AM
Bellec because he was funny and I thought he was a dedicated assassin- unlike Arno

Oh yeah I totally forgot about Bellec. I have....mixed feelings about him. I mean he does get some good lines, he has a good design and his voice actor does a decent job it's just the writing completely wrecks him as a character.

His role as a mentor is so cliche, you can predict exactly how his friendship with Arno is gonna go. Then once the twist happens you don't even care because it happens way too soon and just comes out of nowhere. If his betreyal was the main focus of the story it would have been really good, but since they rushed it so bad I can't really say I like Bellec all that much personally.

RA503
12-28-2014, 05:36 AM
I hate how arno sounds like a marvel movie protagonist with forced sarcasm and charisma.

JustPlainQuirky
12-28-2014, 05:49 AM
I agree that Connor and Haytham are some of the strongest AC protagonists to date.

Darius_93
12-28-2014, 05:52 AM
I must say that Arno definitely had potential as a good protagonist. It bothered me too why he didn't make some attempts to find out who killed his father. IMO, it would really be interesting to see him confront with his father's killer, seeing that he must have had a traumatic experience to see his father die at such a young age.

But no, apart from holding dear to the watch he received from his father he didn't do much else, at least to me. I think his father's death should have motivated him much more than the death of Monsieur de la Serre, even though he was partly responsible for the Grand Master's death he shouldn't have forgotten about his father's killer. I had high hopes while playing in the beginning but gradually felt more and more disappointed the longer the story went on ( which really isn't long enough, at all ).

One thing I missed from the previous titles is the way you have a conversation with your target after you assassinate them which I think is a great way to add more depth into the story itself, not just some random slow-mo and a glimpse of what the target did before his death.

I don't hate Arno, but I can't say I like him much. Was hoping for a better character development, to be honest.

Namikaze_17
12-28-2014, 05:57 AM
I hate how arno sounds like a marvel movie protagonist with forced sarcasm and charisma.

This.

They tried too damn hard to make him like AC2 Ezio or something. -__-

Overtime, it just got annoying.

Altair1789
12-28-2014, 06:30 AM
This.

They tried too damn hard to make him like AC2 Ezio or something. -__-

Overtime, it just got annoying.

Even the targets and the way the plot played out can be comparable to AC2

Namikaze_17
12-28-2014, 06:43 AM
Even the targets and the way the plot played out can be comparable to AC2

Big Bad Villain? Check.

Mustache-twirling baddies? Check.

Player gives little to no regret/sympathy killing them? Check.

Conspiracy? Check.

Main character wants Revenge? Check.

Big Bad Villain uses POE against protagonist? Check.

Death of Protagonist's father? Check.

Main character wants to continue father's legacy? Check.

Forgettable supporting characters? Check.


Yeah... AC returned to its "roots". :rolleyes:

RA503
12-28-2014, 06:50 AM
but unlike AC 2,when the ending reveal those who came before and the sun plot making us very anxious to play brotherhood, unitys ending just... just...:(

LoyalACFan
12-28-2014, 11:50 AM
I don't even feel strongly enough about him to say he sucks, he's just a total non-character because the story was so short and meaningless. I mean, he barely even has a personality. He's like a combination of Ezio without the charisma and Connor without the kindness. He just floats along through the story, making no decisions for himself, instead just reacting to the actions of the supporting cast. When there's nobody left for him to chase after or run errands for, he simply shuts down and becomes a drunk. There's no character arc, no reason to root for him other than the fact that his life sucks, but that's not enough.

I feel that if Unity had had a more competent creative writing team, I would have liked Arno quite a lot. But in his current incarnation, he's simply... nothing. I don't care about him one way or the other. My list of favorites remains Edward>Ezio>Connor>Haytham>Adewale>Altair>Aveline.

aL_____eX
12-28-2014, 12:12 PM
Mustache-twirling baddies? Check.
The one guy when Arno is back in Versailles. That moustache is what I call next gen graphics.

Namikaze_17
12-28-2014, 12:46 PM
The one guy when Arno is back in Versailles. That moustache is what I call next gen graphics.

Haven't played the game, mate. :rolleyes:

aL_____eX
12-28-2014, 12:48 PM
Sorry for massive spoilers Nami :p:rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
12-28-2014, 12:51 PM
Sorry for massive spoilers Nami :p:rolleyes:

Nah, I don't care. :rolleyes:

Nothing happens anyway.

GunnerGalactico
12-28-2014, 01:06 PM
I haven't played Unity yet, but I can see that the reception seems polarizing.

Hmmmm..... sounds familiar. :rolleyes:

arthur-peresb13
12-28-2014, 01:25 PM
I don't even feel strongly enough about him to say he sucks, he's just a total non-character because the story was so short and meaningless. I mean, he barely even has a personality. He's like a combination of Ezio without the charisma and Connor without the kindness. He just floats along through the story, making no decisions for himself, instead just reacting to the actions of the supporting cast. When there's nobody left for him to chase after or run errands for, he simply shuts down and becomes a drunk. There's no character arc, no reason to root for him other than the fact that his life sucks, but that's not enough.

I feel that if Unity had had a more competent creative writing team, I would have liked Arno quite a lot. But in his current incarnation, he's simply... nothing. I don't care about him one way or the other. My list of favorites remains Edward>Ezio>Connor>Haytham>Adewale>Altair>Aveline.


My favorite list it's the same as yours, I would just change Connor and Haytham places, and Shay> both of them

Edward>Ezio>Shay>Haytham>Connor>Adewale>Altair>Aveline>Arno

Journey95
12-28-2014, 03:02 PM
I agree that Connor and Haytham are some of the strongest AC protagonists to date.

agreed if only Haytham got his own game as opposed to a few sequences in AC3 he definitely deserved that
I still think that Rogue should have been about Haytham (haven't read Forsaken yet because I was still hoping)

he may have been my favourite protagonist Ubisoft really wasted this opportunity

Journey95
12-28-2014, 03:08 PM
I don't even feel strongly enough about him to say he sucks, he's just a total non-character because the story was so short and meaningless. I mean, he barely even has a personality. He's like a combination of Ezio without the charisma and Connor without the kindness. He just floats along through the story, making no decisions for himself, instead just reacting to the actions of the supporting cast. When there's nobody left for him to chase after or run errands for, he simply shuts down and becomes a drunk. There's no character arc, no reason to root for him other than the fact that his life sucks, but that's not enough.

I feel that if Unity had had a more competent creative writing team, I would have liked Arno quite a lot. But in his current incarnation, he's simply... nothing. I don't care about him one way or the other. My list of favorites remains Edward>Ezio>Connor>Haytham>Adewale>Altair>Aveline.

yeah the writers of Unity really sucked can't imagine that any of them worked on previous games which were awesome in terms of story and characters (many won't agree with me especially with AC3 but I think its story was miles ahead of Unity's borefest, I just wanted to skip the cutscenes towards the end, it was that bad)

Megas_Doux
12-28-2014, 10:14 PM
I liked Arno more than the story, which is not saying a lot, considering I dont like the story. His VA was good but remarkable though. It is the exact opposite scenario of AC III in which I enjoyed the overall story, but cant stand Connor┤s VA.

Mike111690
12-28-2014, 10:45 PM
I don't know if I'd say he was the worst protagonist but I certainly didn't like him. My favorite protagonist list would probably look something like:

1. Shay
2. Haytham
3. Edward
4. Ezio
5. Altair
6. Connor
7. Adewale
8. Arno
9. Aveline

Democrito_71
12-28-2014, 11:12 PM
I really enjoyed Arno as a protagonist. His voice actor was great and the performance was great as well. I think the major problem Unity has(except for all the bugs, framerate drops, crashes and such) is the length and the amount of story missions that hurts the overall character arc in Unity. I wish they gave us more missions when Arno worked or cooporated with major/side characters like Monsiuer De la Serre, Pierre, De Sade Napoleon, Mirabeau and Elise so we could get to know the major/side characters more and also see a deeper character development in the main characters(Arno & Elise + the side characters) plus the main antagonist as well. I did find the antagonist interesting but I wish we could get know him more than we did. The antagonist became a "bad guy" clichÚ who were clearly bad due too his selfishness in wanting to have extreme control over people. I wish we could have seen more sides of the main antagonists personality than we did.

My point is that (this is my humble opinion and not fact, obviously since I'm expressing my opinions here but anyway) Arno was a great lead character but due too the story was a bit meh and it was soooo short, we didn't had a chance too get to know all the characters more and wasn't enable to create bonds with the major/side characters enough. I wish for the future AC Games, that Ubisoft make more story missions than the 26 missions we got in Unity(the amount of story missions in Unity was way too short & the story mode could have been around 50 missions for such a huge and gorgeous game Unity was) and that Ubisoft take a look how Red Dead Redemption handled the story mode when u could do 3 or a few more missions for each major/side character your working or cooperating with so we can get to know the major/side characters better and too give the major/side characters more depth than those in Unity.

Here's a wikia page of how REDs story missions looks like: PS: Warning for Spoilers for those who haven't played this game yet!
http://reddead.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Dead_Redemption_missions .

Hope Ubi takes some inspiration from REDs way to build up a story so future AC-games doesn't feel too linear(like in Unity) and that they take more time for the protagonists and for each historical & fictional major/side character we get too know in future AC-games.

JustPlainQuirky
12-28-2014, 11:14 PM
(Shay and Haytham are kinda tied for me)
1. Shay
2. Haytham
3. Altair
4. Shao Jun
5. Connor
6. Ezio
7. Edward
8. Adewale
9. Aveline
10. Arno

Namikaze_17
12-28-2014, 11:33 PM
1) Alta´r
2) Shay/Haytham
3) Connor
4) Edward
5) Adewale
6) Ezio
7) Aveline
8) Arno

Altair1789
12-29-2014, 12:15 AM
1) Alta´r
2) Connor
3) Ezio
4) Edward
5) The shopkeeper who didn't scam Connor
6) A sack of rat poop
7) No one
8) Arno

I didn't put Aveline, Adewale, Shay, or Haytham here, but they're all probably somewhere between 2-4. I just haven't thought out who I liked more

Shahkulu101
12-29-2014, 12:22 AM
I feel like Arno has become a bit of a scapegoat for the bad story. He's not that bad guys come on...

Namikaze_17
12-29-2014, 12:27 AM
^ Even Elise thinks so... :rolleyes:

How do you feel about Arno and his story, Elise?

http://static.tumblr.com/eeabb4a63f5e898892682cf923baa81b/ob8urc5/L2hnf9w31/tumblr_static_s2gdb1ivo4gk84cg0g4g4s48.gif

JustPlainQuirky
12-29-2014, 12:27 AM
I feel like Arno has become a bit of a scapegoat for the bad story. He's not that bad guys come on...

He and aveline are tied to me for worst protagonist.

Arno is one dimensional with a lack of a character arc and Aveline is entirely reactionary.

Namikaze_17
12-29-2014, 12:29 AM
He and aveline are tied to me for worst protagonist.

Arno is one dimensional with a lack of a character arc and Aveline is entirely reactionary.

I like Aveline better though...

JustPlainQuirky
12-29-2014, 12:30 AM
I don't.

We hardly see a change with her either and she has little unique to offer regarding her character IMO.

Namikaze_17
12-29-2014, 12:32 AM
I don't.

We hardly see a change with her either and she has little unique to offer regarding her character IMO.

Er.....I like her hair. :rolleyes:

Altair1789
12-29-2014, 12:35 AM
I feel like Arno has become a bit of a scapegoat for the bad story. He's not that bad guys come on...

Ehh, you're kinda right. I feel like a better story would've made me like him more, but he wasn't even an assassin in my eyes. He cared more about redemption in Elise's eyes than anything else

Shahkulu101
12-29-2014, 12:39 AM
He and aveline are tied to me for worst protagonist.

Arno is one dimensional with a lack of a character arc and Aveline is entirely reactionary.

I guess I get that. But for me nothing stands out about Arno that makes me think "Wow what a terrible character". Nothing made me think he was an especially great protagonist either, he was just sort of your standard video game guy with a fun sarcastic sense of humor. Nothing reminded me of Ezio either, he has traits intentioned to make him likable but to say they are clones is pushing it. He's well acted and believable too. Not my favourite protagonist by any stretch but I see nothing wrong with him. I like him more than Altair anyway, at least personality wise.

JustPlainQuirky
12-29-2014, 12:40 AM
I don't see how a different story would make Arno's character any more compelling.

But that's just me.

he's very bland.

Not Aiden Pierce level bland, but bland.

A boring character with nothing to offer and little to no change is a bad character IMO.

Dan's performance was good, yes.

but he lacks layers

Namikaze_17
12-29-2014, 12:42 AM
I don't hate him, but I'm glad we've moved from him.

JustPlainQuirky
12-29-2014, 12:45 AM
I think my resentment stems from feeling betrayed.

I cried when I saw the Unity CGI trailer.

I was super hyped when I saw Arno

Then Unity released and the walls came crumbling down....

Namikaze_17
12-29-2014, 12:51 AM
^ I was hyped for Unity when the CGI Trailer hit...

Even more when we saw Elise...


All that changed when we saw that story trailer though.

aL_____eX
12-29-2014, 12:56 AM
Mayrice doesn't like any video game character it seems. :rolleyes:

Arno's story just lacked depth if you ask me. He wasn't a good or bad character because his true character never came to light. The overall storytelling part in Unity was just too short.

Journey95
12-29-2014, 01:04 AM
I don't see how a different story would make Arno's character any more compelling.

But that's just me.

he's very bland.

Not Aiden Pierce level bland, but bland.

A boring character with nothing to offer and little to no change is a bad character IMO.

Dan's performance was good, yes.

but he lacks layers

lol Aiden Pearce definitely worse than Arno

in general it seems like Ubisoft really needs to hire some new writers both Unity and Watch Dogs had a worthless protagonist and very bad story
(two of the most hyped games this year, especially WD)
And even though Far Cry 3 was moving in the right direction FC4 story sucked too

JustPlainQuirky
12-29-2014, 01:09 AM
Mayrice doesn't like any video game character it seems. :rolleyes:

Arno's story just lacked depth if you ask me. He wasn't a good or bad character because his true character never came to light. The overall storytelling part in Unity was just too short.

Not true! QAQ

I like

Alex Mercer (he's horribly written but so annoyingly angsty and violent i love him)
Nilin and Edge from Remember Me
Geralt and Triss (lovely couple)
Wheatley and GLaDOS
Andrew Ryan from Bioshock


And even though Far Cry 3 was moving in the right direction FC4 story sucked too

Because the protagonist in FC3 actually had a character to him. and a character arc

FC4's protagonist was a blank slate

aL_____eX
12-29-2014, 01:12 AM
^ Apart from Andrew Ryan I don't know any of these names. :confused:

https://31.media.tumblr.com/d83c96b656fa495370936feb89593158/tumblr_n3b52dTioZ1tw1vhco1_500.gif


I think Unity's story could have been much better if they just didn't choose the easy way to end it and found a way to bring everything to a conclusion.
I know it's always easy to say that as someone who isn't involved in the writing, but for me it just felt to unspecial. There was no real 'wow!' moment in the whole game.

Journey95
12-29-2014, 01:21 AM
Not true! QAQ

I like

Alex Mercer (he's horribly written but so annoyingly angsty and violent i love him)
Nilin and Edge from Remember Me
Geralt and Triss (lovely couple)
Wheatley and GLaDOS
Andrew Ryan from Bioshock



Because the protagonist in FC3 actually had a character to him. and a character arc

FC4's protagonist was a blank slate

nice to see someone else who likes Geralt and Triss as a couple
usually its always Yennefer, Yennefer (if you know about the books)

JustPlainQuirky
12-29-2014, 01:24 AM
nice to see someone else who likes Geralt and Triss as a couple
usually its always Yennefer, Yennefer (if you know about the books)

I want to read the books but not all of them are in english OTL

wvstolzing
12-29-2014, 02:24 AM
I think this post fits this thread better. Sorry for the redundancy.

The 'drunken' episode of Arno pretty much sums up what he amounts to as a fictional character in a game:

i) With respect to gameplay: You'd recall that the camera was wobbling through that episode, and whenever you tried to deploy eagle sense, Arno would hold his head; there was a color filter on, etc. -- but despite the 'wobbly' drunkenness implied by the camera, his parkour & fighting abilities were left intact. So the drunkenness was only a facade, and beneath it, it was entirely hollow; he was just 'some player avatar', to get from point A to point B on the map. Compare that, with Edward's drunken nightmare sequence, which let us catch a glimpse into his inner world.

ii) With respect to his intentions/why he does what he does/what he thinks-believes-feels, etc. about anything in his environment: There's the faint recollection of the day his father died, a faint recollection of Elise's words the night de la Serre died, the faint symbolism of the pocket watch -- what's the significance of any of these for him? What did his expulsion from the Assassins mean to him? Was he just 'pissed off', the way one might be pissed off at one's boss at work? Did he think they might be right? Did he at all reflect on where he might have failed? Did he think they were entirely unfair? What did he think, if anything, about Elise's misplaced reprimand at the end of the first episode with Germain? 'I don't need to be saved by you' is not the kind of thing to say to a person who's just saved you from a very specific and lethal danger on a specific point in time; does that signal a frustration on Elise's part, with respect to Arno's overprotective, perhaps patronizing, attitude towards her over an extended period of time? Why else would she say that? The 'letters' suggest that they cohabited at least for a time (something their in-game encounters doesn't quite convey); so what was their relationship like?

-- In short, what was the content of that 'drunken depression'? It looks like the writers only know how to 'hamfist' such things, or faintly suggest them, or hide them in some content players need to unlock and just read. For all that emphasis on 'being cinematic', one would imagine they'd be trying to show us what that 'content' is, through visual language, and (the father of understanding forbid) through gameplay, even. I think the answer is that there was no content to it; like a puppet, he was going through the motions of the 'down, dejected, whatever'-mode. Then, because he's the hero and all, he'd just snap right out of it.

Similarly: What, if anything, was his opinion on that glowy sword he strapped to his side at the end, like it was some ordinary piece of loot. Did he draw any kind of connection between what his 'adventure' against Germain was about, and the origins of this glowy thing? Did he even care? Why didn't he have a single moment of 'whoa, dude, this is some '***** effrayante' that surpasses our understanding'?

Arno was a complete cardboard cutout of a character (and so was Elise), and he shouldn't even be on this list. As much as I hate Shay, at least he's a character who has thoughts, who acts for this or that reason, and shows some ability to reflect on those reasons, and so on.

SlyTrooper
12-29-2014, 02:36 AM
I want to read the books but not all of them are in english OTL

Learn polish. :p

SixKeys
12-29-2014, 05:01 AM
I think this post fits this thread better. Sorry for the redundancy.

The 'drunken' episode of Arno pretty much sums up what he amounts to as a fictional character in a game:

i) With respect to gameplay: You'd recall that the camera was wobbling through that episode, and whenever you tried to deploy eagle sense, Arno would hold his head; there was a color filter on, etc. -- but despite the 'wobbly' drunkenness implied by the camera, his parkour & fighting abilities were left intact. So the drunkenness was only a facade, and beneath it, it was entirely hollow; he was just 'some player avatar', to get from point A to point B on the map. Compare that, with Edward's drunken nightmare sequence, which let us catch a glimpse into his inner world.

ii) With respect to his intentions/why he does what he does/what he thinks-believes-feels, etc. about anything in his environment: There's the faint recollection of the day his father died, a faint recollection of Elise's words the night de la Serre died, the faint symbolism of the pocket watch -- what's the significance of any of these for him? What did his expulsion from the Assassins mean to him? Was he just 'pissed off', the way one might be pissed off at one's boss at work? Did he think they might be right? Did he at all reflect on where he might have failed? Did he think they were entirely unfair? What did he think, if anything, about Elise's misplaced reprimand at the end of the first episode with Germain? 'I don't need to be saved by you' is not the kind of thing to say to a person who's just saved you from a very specific and lethal danger on a specific point in time; does that signal a frustration on Elise's part, with respect to Arno's overprotective, perhaps patronizing, attitude towards her over an extended period of time? Why else would she say that? The 'letters' suggest that they cohabited at least for a time (something their in-game encounters doesn't quite convey); so what was their relationship like?

-- In short, what was the content of that 'drunken depression'? It looks like the writers only know how to 'hamfist' such things, or faintly suggest them, or hide them in some content players need to unlock and just read. For all that emphasis on 'being cinematic', one would imagine they'd be trying to show us what that 'content' is, through visual language, and (the father of understanding forbid) through gameplay, even. I think the answer is that there was no content to it; like a puppet, he was going through the motions of the 'down, dejected, whatever'-mode. Then, because he's the hero and all, he'd just snap right out of it.

Similarly: What, if anything, was his opinion on that glowy sword he strapped to his side at the end, like it was some ordinary piece of loot. Did he draw any kind of connection between what his 'adventure' against Germain was about, and the origins of this glowy thing? Did he even care? Why didn't he have a single moment of 'whoa, dude, this is some '***** effrayante' that surpasses our understanding'?

Arno was a complete cardboard cutout of a character (and so was Elise), and he shouldn't even be on this list. As much as I hate Shay, at least he's a character who has thoughts, who acts for this or that reason, and shows some ability to reflect on those reasons, and so on.

I like Arno - he's my second favorite protagonist - but as much as I hate to admit it, your criticisms are valid. Especially the drunken bit. I liked that Arno seemingly had the tendency to drown his sorrows in booze (we see it twice during his lowest points) but in terms of gameplay it didn't mean anything. It made no sense why he got to keep all his weapons after being exiled. There are two ways they could have gone to make that scene mean something:

1) Don't give Arno any weapons, force the player to only knock targets unconscious. That would have meant that Arno was merciful and didn't really want to harm anybody just for a bit of booze. So he still would have been a "true" assassin at heart who respects the creed even when he stands to gain nothing. That would have justified him being accepted back into the brotherhood at the end.

2) Make the scene play out the way it currently does, weapons and all. Make Arno turn truly dark. Show that he's never cared about the creed (he himself admits as much when questioned by the council), and now that he thinks he's lost everything, he no longer cares about anything but himself. He's allowed depression and alcoholism to consume himself and it brings out the vengeful killer in him. When Elise shows up, Arno tells her he's done with the assassins, Elise is the only thing that matters and he'll do anything to protect her. This would give more weight to the moment at the end when he kills Germain by coldly, slowly pushing his blade into his throat. Arno feels betrayed, allows himself to be consumed by anger and pride and there's no more going back to the assassins.

wvstolzing
12-29-2014, 05:33 AM
1) Don't give Arno any weapons, force the player to only knock targets unconscious. That would have meant that Arno was merciful and didn't really want to harm anybody just for a bit of booze. So he still would have been a "true" assassin at heart who respects the creed even when he stands to gain nothing. That would have justified him being accepted back into the brotherhood at the end.

Yep; and something as simple as this would at least make a dent in that 'cardboard', to suggest some illusion of depth to this character.

They probably did intend the passage through Versailles to lend players *some* kind of insight into his character: He was trying to find his way out of a looted old palace, to get a broken watch.

The suggested symbolism of the latter is *probably* that the watch marks the moment in which he's as it were, trapped; he can't push himself into his own future, because he's locked in the moment of his father's death for which he feels guilty. At the very end of the game, the watch is functioning again; because Arno himself is presumably 'whole' again; so he can step out of that frozen moment and venture into his own future. The problem with this, is that it's an extremely faint motif; the functioning watch at the end doesn't bring the player to any kind of resolution with respect to this character, it makes you go 'huh, so maybe that's what the watch meant ... yeah, whatever'.

As to the significance of the emptied palace .... who knows what it means? *Can* it mean anything to Arno, given how entirely aloof he remains to the events of the Revolution? You can't both make the Revolution an inert 'backdrop', and then expect that setting to resonate with the player. All it can do, is to hint at some melodramatic fluff, "times are changing, man; how sad, all this opulence, now so empty, ... yeah".


2) Make the scene play out the way it currently does, weapons and all. Make Arno turn truly dark. Show that he's never cared about the creed (he himself admits as much when questioned by the council), and now that he thinks he's lost everything, he no longer cares about anything but himself. He's allowed depression and alcoholism to consume himself and it brings out the vengeful killer in him. When Elise shows up, Arno tells her he's done with the assassins, Elise is the only thing that matters and he'll do anything to protect her. This would give more weight to the moment at the end when he kills Germain by coldly, slowly pushing his blade into his throat. Arno feels betrayed, allows himself to be consumed by anger and pride and there's no more going back to the assassins.

I think this too is a great idea -- and perhaps Dead Kings will be the official half-assed way of pulling off something similar.

Kaschra
12-29-2014, 07:19 PM
Arno is just... I don't know.
I actually quite liked him in the beginning, but after some time he started to bore me.
I couldn't really warm up to him. I never cared about him or what happened to him, I felt no connection at all, but that applies to pretty much every character in Unity.
He gets a bit more interesting when he interacts with Elise, but that doesn't really speak for Arno as a character now, does it?

killzab
12-29-2014, 09:20 PM
Arno is just... I don't know.
I actually quite liked him in the beginning, but after some time he started to bore me.
I couldn't really warm up to him. I never cared about him or what happened to him, I felt no connection at all, but that applies to pretty much every character in Unity.
He gets a bit more interesting when he interacts with Elise, but that doesn't really speak for Arno as a character now, does it?

Elise should've been the main character of Unity ... somehow make her be an Assassin or become one, go from templar to assassin. IDK


I want to read the books but not all of them are in english OTL

I'm happy to be french for once :D they've ALL been translated.

Hans684
12-29-2014, 09:24 PM
Elise should've been the main character of Unity ... somehow make her be an Assassin or become one, go from templar to assassin. IDK

She doesn't drink that much vine.

Kaschra
12-29-2014, 11:34 PM
Elise should've been the main character of Unity ... somehow make her be an Assassin or become one, go from templar to assassin. IDK

Yeah I agree, she should have been.

Perk89
12-29-2014, 11:46 PM
I've only played a few sequences but have thought so far that Arno was far and away the games best part (though it could be argued that doesn't mean much)

At least he was prior to his initiation. He has yet to have any character development or even really say anything since his initiation, but like I said. I'm only like sequence 4 or something.

adventurewomen
12-30-2014, 02:10 AM
I don't like Arno so far in the 8 sequences I've played in Unity so far, there's something I just dislike about his character.
------------


You know what.. I'm actually happy that this shift of hate/dislike within the fanbase has moved on from Connor!! FINALLY!! <3

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 02:29 AM
I say it's his unoriginality as a character...

Journey95
12-30-2014, 02:30 AM
I don't like Arno so far in the 8 sequences I've played in Unity so far, there's something I just dislike about his character.
------------


You know what.. I'm actually happy that this shift of hate/dislike within the fanbase has moved on from Connor!! FINALLY!! <3


at least Arno was useful for something lol
Connor was definitely a very divisive protagonist but much of the hate he got was just not deserved he was an awesome protag people didn't like him because he was different
Arno is just a boring Ezio clone I guess everyone who complained about Connor should be happy

Altair1789
12-30-2014, 03:49 AM
I don't like Arno so far in the 8 sequences I've played in Unity so far, there's something I just dislike about his character.
------------


You know what.. I'm actually happy that this shift of hate/dislike within the fanbase has moved on from Connor!! FINALLY!! <3

I'm so glad there's so much Connor love in these forums. It's refreshing after hearing nothing but "Connor's dull/ boring/ not Ezio/ monotonous"

JustPlainQuirky
12-30-2014, 03:52 AM
Arno makes Connor look good.

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 04:59 AM
Arno makes Connor look good.

Arno makes Patience look good.

JustPlainQuirky
12-30-2014, 05:05 AM
And I dont see how Elise would be any better.

She's just as bad as Arno. 1 dimensional revenge ideals with underdeveloped love complex.

Only thing good about her is her character design IMO

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 05:09 AM
Elise?

*Cries*

She had such potential...

Megas_Doux
12-30-2014, 05:38 AM
In regards of the story:

1 Edward.
2 Altair.
3 Ezio as a whole.
4 Connor.
5 Arno.
6 Aveline.

In regards of their respective VA:

1 Edward.
2 Ezio.
3 Arno.
4 Altair, came that low thanks to ACR.
5 Aveline/Connor.

The mohawk "crew" was AWFUL, glad the got replaced in the tyranny with the exception of Zio.


Despite Unity┤s reception was worse than AC III, thanks to the technical issues and fatigue, based on what I have seen in other places. Connor still gets more hate.

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 05:43 AM
^ I dare you to listen to Noah watts VAing for a whole day. :rolleyes:

JustPlainQuirky
12-30-2014, 05:45 AM
Don't make fun of Noah Watts.

it's his birthday today.

At least for 15 more minutes :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 06:10 AM
^ I guess. :rolleyes:

Megas_Doux
12-30-2014, 06:23 AM
^ I dare you to listen to Noah watts VAing for a whole day. :rolleyes:


As much as I disliked his performance, I prefer him over the original Kanen'tˇ:kon and the Clan mother for instance. I understand Ubi tried as much realism as they could using real mohawk people, but they were amateurs who just could not act............

The whole cutscene -that game feels like a huge cutscene though :p - in which Connor is told by the Clan Mother that Kanen'tˇ:kon sided with Lee, a big event in the game gotta say, is utterly cringeworthy....

In regards to to the protagonists, if they were leaders of departments/ known faces in a company, it will go like this:

1 Altair is a pretty respected boss that struggled in the beginning to get his recognition.
2 Ezio the most popular one, everybody greets him at the cafeteria, tells jokes, scores with the ladies and such, many outside the firm know about him, many just want to be him. Although he is disliked by some due to his cockyness and constant praise.
3 Connor is socially really awkward, cannot express himself properly in public despite the fact he has good intentions. Which leads him to be constantly bullied aside from the people of his department, which happen to love him immensely.
4 Edward is not as loved/famous as Ezio within the company, but he is certainly a high point amongst the employees and even other companies.
5 That Unity department sucks, those guys screwed things up, bastards! Arno... Who is that Arno guy again??????? Never heard of him.........

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 06:36 AM
As much as I disliked his performance, I prefer him over the original Kanen'tˇ:kon and the Clan mother for instance. I understand Ubi tried as much realism as they could using real mohawk people, but they were amateurs who just could not act............

The whole cutscene -that game feels like a huge cutscene though :p - in which Connor is told by the Clan Mother that Kanen'tˇ:kon sided with Lee, a big event in the game gotta say, is utterly cringeworthy....

In regards to to the protagonists, if they were leaders of departments/ known faces in a company, it will go like this:

1 Altair is a pretty respected boss that struggled in the beginning to get his recognition.
2 Ezio the most popular one, everybody greets him at the cafeteria, tells jokes, scores with the ladies and such, many outside the firm know about him, many just want to be him. Although he is disliked by some due to his cockyness and constant praise.
3 Connor is socially really awkward, cannot express himself properly in public despite the fact he has good intentions. Which leads him to being constantly bullied aside from the people of his department, which happen to love him immensely.
4 Edward is not as loved/famous as Ezio within the company, but he is certainly a high point amongst the employees and even other companies.
5 That Unity department sucks, those guys screwed up, bastards! Arno... Who is that Arno guy again??????? Never heard of him.........


Yeah, I understand your stance on that and I agree some parts did feel off at times.

And that's a good way to describe the Assassins. XD

But it is true.

SixKeys
12-30-2014, 09:54 AM
Kanen'tˇ:kon's VA was better than Connor's and I wish he'd have been picked to voice Connor instead of Noah.

I hated that they replaced all the real native voices in ToKW with the same reused voices we've been hearing in every game. Wasn't Kanen voiced by the same guy who did Cesare/Putnam? Someone overly familiar anyway.

GunnerGalactico
12-30-2014, 09:58 AM
I still prefer Noah. It suited Connor better.

SixKeys
12-30-2014, 10:02 AM
I still prefer Noah. It suited Connor better.

Yeah, I suppose. I mean with a better VA they would have risked accidentally making him interesting. :rolleyes:

(okay, I'll stop now.)


OT: Mayrice changed her name? Should I call her Quirky from now on?

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 10:04 AM
*Looks at Connor*

*Listens to Kani's voice*

Nah, Noah fits. :p


OT: Mayrice changed her name? Should I call her Quirky from now on?

I still call Spirit, Humble...

So it depends on what sounds better to you. :rolleyes:

GunnerGalactico
12-30-2014, 10:05 AM
Yeah, I suppose. I mean with a better VA they would have risked accidentally making him interesting. :rolleyes:

(okay, I'll stop now.)


OT: Mayrice changed her name? Should I call her Quirky from now on?

Just like how the majority thinks that Cas was better for Altair, right. :rolleyes:


*Looks at Connor*

*Listens to Kani's voice*

Nah, Noah fits. :p

Well, they wouldn't use Yuri Lowenthal's Ben 10 voice on Kratos. Would they ?

GunnerGalactico
12-30-2014, 10:12 AM
Arrghh. Seriously hate typing on my phone :p

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 10:16 AM
Just like how the majority thinks that Cas was better for Altair, right. :rolleyes:



Well, they wouldn't use Yuri Lowenthal's Ben 10 voice on Kratos. Would they ?


The more I listen to Cas as Alta´r, the more I dislike it.

At first I didn't mind it, but now I'm kinda meh about it.


Yeah...Sasuke as Kratos. XD

SixKeys
12-30-2014, 10:17 AM
*Looks at Connor*

*Listens to Kani's voice*

Nah, Noah fits. :p



I still call Spirit, Humble...

So it depends on what sounds better to you. :rolleyes:

As long as she doesn't mind, I'll probably keep calling her Mayrice. Too used to that. I just saw someone call her Quirky earlier, so it's up to her what she prefers.

Edit: What about Roger Craig Smith's Sonic the Hedgehog as Ezio?

GunnerGalactico
12-30-2014, 10:22 AM
The more I listen to Kas as Alta´r, the more I dislike it.

At first I didn't mind it, but now I'm kinda meh about it. -__-



Yeah...Sasuke as Kratos. XD

Yeah ;)

If a character looks tough and intimidating, he should sound like one. Not use a soft wimpy voice. For instance, I liked the way Cole McGrath sounded in the first InFamous because it suited him

I'll just end this here. :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
12-30-2014, 10:29 AM
As long as she doesn't mind, I'll probably keep calling her Mayrice. Too used to that. I just saw someone call her Quirky earlier, so it's up to her what she prefers.

Yeah, I doubt it matters... :rolleyes:


What about Roger Craig Smith's Sonic the Hedgehog as Ezio?

Haha. XD


Yeah ;)

If a character looks tough and intimidating, he should sound like one. Not use a soft wimpy voice. For instance, I liked the way Cole McGrath sounded in the first InFamous because it suited him

I'll just end this here. :rolleyes:

I agree. :)

PHStriaghtEdge
01-01-2015, 03:42 PM
Nope, that reward goes to Connor, he's as bland as his name and as mind blowing as his very creative ****che story.

Assassin_M
01-02-2015, 09:23 PM
****che
My god, what did you here...

And no, that honor would go to Ezio in AC II.

adventurewomen
01-02-2015, 09:38 PM
Nope, that reward goes to Connor, he's as bland as his name and as mind blowing as his very creative ****che story.
:rolleyes:

Everything you said summed up Arno actually..

Hans684
01-02-2015, 09:41 PM
Regardless of he is worst or not, he defiantly is the most useless. His own game said we didn't need to relive his memories.

MasterAssasin84
01-02-2015, 09:50 PM
really Ubisoft? after the likes of Edward Kenway and Connor and before Ezio we get Arno? one of the big reasons why Unity's story fails if you ask methe dude is a walking cliche and very dullAfter AC4 annoucement many thought that Edward was just an Ezio clone because soo many people hated on Connor (for being different) but thankfully that wasn't the casenow with Unity the fears became real I guess many got what they wanted -.-here's hoping for awesome protagonist in Victory.. it will probably another ezio clone don't get me wrong I really liked Ezio but we need variety not the same old story


I would not go so far to say he was the worst Protagonist I would say its more the writers handled his story very badly !! Ezio appealed to the Masses and when Connor was introduced in AC3 those very same Masses hammered him for lack of personality and was constantly comparing to Ezio simply because he had 3 games which contrary to those views Connor was a breath of fresh air.

I found it very Ironic that those same individuals complained about Edward being an Ezio clone when in actual fact Edward was one of the best protagonists we have had because his story is so unique .

Its a case of two of one half a dozen of the other ! in short ubisoft will never be able to keep those gamers happy especially when they try something new... Ok unity was a mess but I think the scriptwriters could have done a better job with Arno not forgetting the development side of things ! Heck the game even got delayed to give us the perfect game which was so ironic it was uncanny.

Kaschra
01-02-2015, 09:56 PM
I would not go so far to say he was the worst Protagonist I would say its more the writers handled his story very badly !! Ezio appealed to the Masses and when Connor was introduced in AC3 those very same Masses hammered him for lack of personality and was constantly comparing to Ezio simply because he had 3 games which contrary to those views Connor was a breath of fresh air.

I found it very Ironic that those same individuals complained about Edward being an Ezio clone when in actual fact Edward was one of the best protagonists we have had because his story is so unique .

Its a case of two of one half a dozen of the other ! in short ubisoft will never be able to keep those gamers happy especially when they try something new... Ok unity was a mess but I think the scriptwriters could have done a better job with Arno not forgetting the development side of things ! Heck the game even got delayed to give us the perfect game which was so ironic it was uncanny.

People only complained about Edward being an Ezio clone because of the marketing and how Edward was presented during trailers.
As soon as the game came out and people could see for themselves that Edward is different, those complaints died down.

MasterAssasin84
01-02-2015, 10:01 PM
People only complained about Edward being an Ezio clone because of the marketing and how Edward was presented during trailers.
As soon as the game came out and people could see for themselves that Edward is different, those complaints died down.

Point being when was Introduced the whole world was going on about how Great Ezio is and thats how an Assassin should be presented and when Edward was marketed the complaints started but IMO he was nothing like Ezio... He is a Pirate and Pirates get drunk and womanise which I'm glad he was presented that way rather than the cliche Captain Hook types you see in a disney movie .

GunnerGalactico
01-02-2015, 10:08 PM
Point being when was Introduced the whole world was going on about how Great Ezio is and thats how an Assassin should be presented

That's one of the things that really gets on my nerves. I'm not saying that this applies to every Ezio fan, but you do get a few out there that claim that he is the epitome of what every videogame character should be like. To me, he was the medium for most guys to live out their boyish fantasies.

MasterAssasin84
01-02-2015, 10:16 PM
he was the medium for most guys to live out their boyish fantasies.


This !

When the Kenway's was introduced since Altair Assassins Creed started taking a more personal less cliche route !

Ok fair enough Ezio had a tragic story but Connor's pretty much lost everyone around and in comparison AC2 was the classic revenge motive lead plot. I always remember in Embers Ezio saying Shao Jun that the life of an Assassin is Pain. Connors was very tragic on a personal level and adding the fact that the Kenway's was not your average childhood hero that Kisses every girl that they save they was the change Assassins Creed needed .

Kaschra
01-02-2015, 10:25 PM
That's one of the things that really gets on my nerves. I'm not saying that this applies to every Ezio fan, but you do get a few out there that claim that he is the epitome of what every videogame character should be like. To me, he was the medium for most guys to live out their boyish fantasies.
I can't express how much Ezio and AC2 faboys get on my nerves.
Especially if they say that Ezio is the only good protagonist in the franchise and whine that the games aren't like AC2 anymore :rolleyes:
They are lost in their nostalgia, they are to narrow-minded to accept change.

(not all of them of course, but there are a lot like this)

Assassin_M
01-02-2015, 10:26 PM
Arno was a cool character. He's an everyday day guy who's just chill and lighthearted all the time but he's extremely vulnerable and weak. Yes, Arno is the weakest Assassin we'v had so far, not that this is a bad thing. He's a character who needs a driving force. His father's watch was a symbol for this. Arno is a dependent person. He needs others to drive him forward. In this case, that was his character development symbolized by the watch.

Every time Arno's motivation is gone, he goes back to the watch and it's still broken. His life stops, right there. On the day his father died. He never really moved on from it. At least when there's no one around him to keep him safe. he grew up with no mother. Not his real one and not a step one. Elise most likely filled A LOT of roles for Arno, like Eve did for Adam. (Arno, Elise? Adam, Eve? anyone?) She was a troublesome sister, a passionate lover and warm mother. She kept him safe. Her shadow kept him secure. Her presence was his driving force, the thing he looks forward to.

In jail, the first and only person Arno asks for is Elise. He asks for no one else, he doesn't ask for a trial, nothing. He asks only for Elise. When she doubts Arno, that's it for him. He goes back to his father's watch. it's broken, unmoving but he then resolves to try and win her back. Hope in the form of the Assassins arises and Arno begins anew. He finds a mentor, a cause and a family. He joins for a personal redemption but it's not like he never believed in the cause, he was simply young. He always tried to take the initiative with his duty as an Assassin. He says to Pierre that they should stop the fanatics, he argues with Sofie that the revolution is what people are asking for and that they should support it because freedom is its goal. He had a sense of justice that would be absent from someone like Edward early in AC IV, someone who's only solely interested in self gain. He takes it upon himself to reveal the atrocities of Saint Just and kills his Valet because of what they did, he helps a young woman by training her to regain her family's invaded house. No one tells him to go and do these things, he does them on initiative. That's because this is consistent with Arno's character. He's dependent. He needs people. He needed a reason to function.

Did anyone notice how every time Arno started giving up hope, his watch got stolen? and then returned back not through his efforts but through someone else? Arno tries to get the watch back but it ALWAYS eludes him. First in the Bastille and then in Versailles. The watch is returned to him by two very dear people. Pierre returns it and gives him his renewed motivation in prison and Elise does the same in Versailles. Both die, though. Both returned the watch and spurned him forward and both have busts of them in Arno's room. They're the only people with busts for them in Arno's room.

After Elise dies, OF COURSE he goes back to the Assassins. His watch his still there and it works again. He's moved on. He found his family among the Brotherhood. It's a complete arc in my eyes.

Of course, that's not to say I don't have problems with him or his story. I shall elaborate more on those later.

JustPlainQuirky
01-02-2015, 10:28 PM
Honestly i have Arno and Aveline both tied for weakest.

Don't know your thoughts on Aveline, M.

Megas_Doux
01-02-2015, 10:28 PM
I can't express how much Ezio and AC2 faboys get on my nerves.
Especially if they say that Ezio is the only good protagonist in the franchise and whine that the games aren't like AC2 anymore :rolleyes:
They are lost in their nostalgia, they are to narrow-minded to accept change.

(not all of them of course, but there are a lot like this)


That could be said to ANY specific fanboy, ANY..........

Kaschra
01-02-2015, 10:35 PM
That could be said to ANY specific fanboy, ANY..........

You don't say...
Ezio has most of these kind of fans, followed by Connor :rolleyes:

Megas_Doux
01-02-2015, 10:40 PM
Indeed.

My grip about Unity┤s story is that you dont feel you are playing Assassins creed at all, aside from the gameplay of course. I would have done things differently because I wanted French Revolution, or France in general, SO bad.....

Assassin_M
01-02-2015, 10:46 PM
Don't know your thoughts on Aveline, M.
I liked Aveline a lot too. She was a much stronger character than Arno. She was driven, confident and independent. She had a human side, of course too. She had her internal conflicts and demons. I think her arc is about closure, mostly. When she starts something, she has to see it to the end and that leads to consequences. EVERYONE hides things from her. Her mentor, her step mother and even her mother. Her curiosity leads her to more questions than answers and in the end, she finds her closure. Although at a great price. It was well done imo.

Of course, this is just a simple abstract.

JustPlainQuirky
01-02-2015, 10:50 PM
I had a lot of problems with Aveline

but a lot of it stem from the fact that we see her mid-brotherhood so don't get a clear grasp of her initial motivations or background

and i find her motivations blurry and to me she didnt feel very layered

but a lot of the problem is due to the disjointed presentation of Liberation

but as a standalone Aveline fails to feel unique to me. She's strong, independent, etc but never understand much why and it's not like that hasn't been seen before. She doesn't have anything that sets her apart from other AC protags IMO

Assassin_M
01-02-2015, 10:56 PM
I had a lot of problems with Aveline

but a lot of it stem from the fact that we see her mid-brotherhood so don't get a clear grasp of her initial motivations or background

and i find her motivations blurry and to me she didnt feel very layered

but a lot of the problem is due to the disjointed presentation of Liberation

but as a standalone Aveline fails to feel unique to me. She's strong, independent, etc but never understand much why and it's not like that hasn't been seen before. She doesn't have anything that sets her apart from other AC protags IMO
I honestly didn't need anymore for me to like her and I didn't need to see how she joins the Assassins. The writers skipped a now tired part of the story and gave the player imagination. Think her race, her gender and society. Think her personality and not standing for the injustices she sees, think running into Agate, watching him and then asking to be inducted into the Brotherhood to fight injustice wherever she finds it. It was that simple for me, I didn't need to see it.

Regarding her personality, just her gender sets her apart. She's a strong and independent female who's not sexualized whatsoever. She's not the early Lara Croft who oozed Charisma, wit and NO human qualities. The early Lara Croft was like AC II's Ezio. No weaknesses whatsoever. Aveline stands out because she combines both the confidence and independence of Lara with the human qualities of doubt and slight insecurity.

Megas_Doux
01-02-2015, 11:02 PM
My problem with Aveline is that same I have with Connor: their VA┤s.........

I just dont like them.

JustPlainQuirky
01-02-2015, 11:20 PM
Regarding her personality, just her gender sets her apart. She's a strong and independent female who's not sexualized whatsoever. She's not the early Lara Croft who oozed Charisma, wit and NO human qualities. The early Lara Croft was like AC II's Ezio. No weaknesses whatsoever. Aveline stands out because she combines both the confidence and independence of Lara with the human qualities of doubt and slight insecurity.

i refuse to have that mentality.

just because she's a strong female, doesn't excuse her lack of uniqueness.

and i dont count gender as uniqueness.

but that's just me. I don't like the new lara croft at all. she's entirely reactionary.

i like other women like GLaDOS or Nilin or Red and it's because i find them amusing or unique in other ways.

sorry, i kind of get resentful when people like female characters simply for being 'strong' females

there are other archtypes aside from cliche independent strong catwoman/blackwidow/etc

@megas

agreed

Kaschra
01-02-2015, 11:21 PM
I honestly didn't need anymore for me to like her and I didn't need to see how she joins the Assassins. The writers skipped a now tired part of the story and gave the player imagination. Think her race, her gender and society. Think her personality and not standing for the injustices she sees, think running into Agate, watching him and then asking to be inducted into the Brotherhood to fight injustice wherever she finds it. It was that simple for me, I didn't need to see it.

Regarding her personality, just her gender sets her apart. She's a strong and independent female who's not sexualized whatsoever. She's not the early Lara Croft who oozed Charisma, wit and NO human qualities. The early Lara Croft was like AC II's Ezio. No weaknesses whatsoever. Aveline stands out because she combines both the confidence and independence of Lara with the human qualities of doubt and slight insecurity.
Well said, Mo. I agree with all of this and your other Aveline post.

JustPlainQuirky
01-02-2015, 11:24 PM
I just feel Aveline has little to offer and feel people excuse it because she's a lady.

But that's just me.

Assassin_M
01-02-2015, 11:28 PM
i refuse to have that mentality.

just because she's a strong female, doesn't excuse her lack of uniqueness.

and i dont count gender as uniqueness.

but that's just me. I don't like the new lara croft at all. she's entirely reactionary.

i like other women like GLaDOS or Nilin or Red and it's because i find them amusing or unique in other ways.

sorry, i kind of get resentful when people like female characters simply for being 'strong' females

there are other archtypes aside from cliche independent strong catwoman/blackwidow/etc

@megas

agreed
You misunderstand, you should know my position on that subject by now. I am indifferent towards her gender. if she was a child, i'd feel the same way. Most children have no cares in the world. A lot of them are even spoiled. When a I find a mature child, who speaks like an adult among a bunch of spoiled brats, that child is automatically unique. It has nothing to do with gender or age, I couldn't care less.

Aveline stands apart from most women of her time by not being a house wife. She goes out there to fight injustice herself. Being a house wife is amazing, not implying at all that it is an inferior responsibility. She stands apart from most Africans of the time by being independent.
I like Aveline because she was a human character. I like human characters. I like Edward, I like Shay, I like Connor. Aveline's story was very human and she was a badass. Tell me, which other female hero is a confident badass who's NOT sexualized....tell me.

Fatal-Feit
01-02-2015, 11:28 PM
_M is love. _M is life.

Never disagreed with _M's post. Ever.

aL_____eX
01-02-2015, 11:33 PM
^ I can only agree with M as well.

JustPlainQuirky
01-02-2015, 11:35 PM
Aveline stands apart from most women of her time by not being a house wife. She goes out there to fight injustice herself. Being a house wife is amazing, not implying at all that it is an inferior responsibility. She stands apart from most Africans of the time by being independent.
I like Aveline because she was a human character. I like human characters. I like Edward, I like Shay, I like Connor. Aveline's story was very human and she was a badass. .

Eh, she's very much the same as adewale in the sense that theyre fighting for a just cause in a time of much oppression but both characters felt very "i've seen it before" to me


Tell me, which other female hero is a confident badass who's NOT sexualized....tell me

that has to do with marketing

and has nothing to do with a character's written quality.

but to answer your question


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXMoLCA3GQ4

And he failed to mention a good 12 off the top of my head

Fatal-Feit
01-02-2015, 11:38 PM
^ 90% of them are either side characters or sexualized.

Assassin_M
01-02-2015, 11:43 PM
Eh, she's very much the same as adewale in the sense that theyre fighting for a just cause in a time of much oppression but both characters felt very "i've seen it before" to me
ANYTHING can invoke a "i'v seen it before". I'v seen Connor before in Samurai Jack. I'v seen Ezio before in John Cena. I'v seen Edward before in Sinbad. It's all about what it takes to make you think "hmm...this is good"

Adewale's struggle was VERY different from Aveline's, though. Adewale's dilemma lied in the fact that in helping the maroons in Port Au Prince, he'd be indirectly helping a Templar ally. Why do you think He was so reluctant initially to help? It's because they're Templar allies and he has an Assassin mission. Aveline's motivations were in sync with her actions. Agate was focused entirely on freeing slaves using his conviction in the Creed's principles of freedom. Adewale needed time to actually realize that this was not about Assassins and Templars, it was about helping those in need and he used his conviction in his Creed to inspire hope for oppressed slaves and he thus became the legend that he is in Rogue




that has to do with marketing

and has nothing to do with a character's written quality.

but to answer your question


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXMoLCA3GQ4
ignoring that you're jumping to conclusions because this video had nothing to do with what I said, Only a handful are not sexualized and most of those not sexualized are children.

JustPlainQuirky
01-02-2015, 11:44 PM
^ 90% of them are either side characters or sexualized.

she was asking for an example so was just bringing one up from that list

and i do think there are some misconceptions

like people say Bayonetta objectifies women when she's empowering iff anything

and it's not her job to represent women.

if she wants to be that way, let her.

i respect Bayonetta so much and get pissed when people blindly accuse her of being a prime example of women objectification. Because that shows me they clearly havent not played the games and do not comprehend her character.

And looking attractive =/= sexualized

otherwise a lot of male characters could be applied too.

I consider Nilin awesome but people assume she's sexualized because of her box art

and what about Red from Transistor? Or Faith from Mirror's Edge? (tho i personally dont find faith that compelling)

i feel it's an overdramatized situation. the recent real problem i see is people excusing poor character development when a character is female. Like lara croft in new tomb raider for ex.

but ofc thats my opinion

@m

wasnt jumping to conclusions

just remembered video that had lots of women and plenty in list arent sexualized

and off the list there are Red, Faith, Nilin etc

and as before, I fail to see Aveline as having something new to offer in the AC franchise specifically

edit:

http://i.imgur.com/uSpfVYy.jpg
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/mirrorsedge/images/9/91/Mirrors-edge-faith-profile-ponder.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130725000740
http://40.media.tumblr.com/b6907de6089e55aa1b8488c019e11b29/tumblr_mw6ufphEot1s9flg6o1_500.png
http://elfcan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/nilin.jpg

all non-sexualized protagonists within the last year or two

Assassin_M
01-03-2015, 12:01 AM
she was asking for an example so was just bringing one up from that list
I'm a guy


and i do think there are some misconceptions

like people say Bayonetta objectifies women when she's empowering iff anything

and it's not her job to represent women.

if she wants to be that way, let her.

i respect Bayonetta so much and get pissed when people blindly accuse her of being a prime example of women objectification. Because that shows me they clearly havent not played the games and do not comprehend her character.

And looking attractive =/= sexualized

otherwise a lot of male characters could be applied too.

I consider Nilin awesome but people assume she's sexualized because of her box art

and what about Red from Transistor? Or Faith from Mirror's Edge? (tho i personally dont find faith that compelling)

i feel it's an overdramatized situation. the recent real problem i see is people excusing poor character development when a character is female. Like lara croft in new tomb raider for ex.

but ofc thats my opinion
Sexualization is unattractive to me. I don't consider it negating of good character but in some cases, it affects the personality and development. Have you ever watched detective Conan? Take that as an example: The main character's love interest, Ran, is a shy, mild and sweet high school girl. She gets embarrassed when her more....outgoing best friend, Sonoko, makes remarks about short clothes and how Shinichi, the main character, would love to see her on those clothes. On one occasion, Ran and Sonoko were going to play Tennis and Sonoko took it upon herself to buy Ran a Tennis skirt. It was pretty short and Ran, embarrassed and red faced, noted that fact but then, not a few minutes later, they're shown to be at a public beach and Ran is wearing a 2 piece swim suit complete with large cleavage. This is inconsistent. It's sex for the sake of sex. Not only is there no reason for it, it's detrimental to the overall character's personality.

Not to mention the western idea that confidence and independence are synonymous with tight and/or revealing clothing. It's dumb and idiotic and I refuse to condone it.


@m

wasnt jumping to conclusions

just remembered video that had lots of women and plenty in list arent sexualized

and off the list there are Red, Faith, Nilin etc

and as before, I fail to see Aveline as having something new to offer in the AC franchise specifically
Again, Most of them are sexualized and most of those who are not, are children. I think Nilin is sexualized. Marketing is sex, i'm talking about what happens in the game. Geeyosh, I guess a naked woman would not be sexualized if sex is not happening in the game. To me, the intention is in the marketing and with developers. Tight clothes and big butt shot? that's sexualized to me. It's subjective. I come from a different culture that views things differently.

And I respect your opinion about Aveline. I was merely expanding my thoughts on your remarks.

EDIT: What's Elizabeth's main outfit again? not that one, I don't think.

JustPlainQuirky
01-03-2015, 12:04 AM
I know whatcha mean but its like

oh aveline is dressed normally and is a strong woman. therefore she must be good.

i know u might not have that mentality but i know a lot of people who do and it frustrates me.

because ezio was also strong, independent, and had justifiable motivations. but does that necessarily make him well written?

this is something that occurs more in hollywood rather than videogames but....i see it a lot and it's just something that upsets me greatly

Fatal-Feit
01-03-2015, 12:06 AM
I'm not getting into this sexualization debate.

Assassin_M
01-03-2015, 12:10 AM
I know whatcha mean but its like

oh aveline is dressed normally and is a strong woman. therefore she must be good.

i know u might not have that mentality but i know a lot of people who do and it frustrates me.
Well, since you know I don't have that mentality, then this is settled.


because ezio was also strong, independent, and had justifiable motivations. but does that necessarily make him well written?
Man, come now. What was the first thing I talked about with Aveline? Her personality and arc. Only when you started talking about her not standing out was when I expanded more on how she stands out to me. I never talked about her gender at all before then. Like I said, her story felt very human and I connected with it. I like human stories.

JustPlainQuirky
01-03-2015, 12:11 AM
I don't think aveline has much of a character arc

she doesnt really change

or if she did, i couldnt tell because liberation was presented in a disjointed manner

and what about her personality? she's sassy i guess....yeah she's strong and sympathetic but that's a given, really.

I-Like-Pie45
01-03-2015, 12:11 AM
I'm not getting into this sexualization debate.

yeh

lets talk about alpacas instead

how is a cut best served?

aL_____eX
01-03-2015, 12:13 AM
Like I said, her story felt very human and I connected with it. I like human stories.
That's the thing I liked most about Liberation. Its story is so different compared to most of the other games in the series. Aveline's story, especially the part with her mother, was overall very touching.


I don't think aveline has much of a character arc

she doesnt really change

or if she did, i couldnt tell because liberation was presented in a disjointed manner

and what about her personality? she's sassy i guess....yeah she's strong and sympathetic but that's a given, really.
Well, to say she does not change isn't correct. Maybe it's not a 180░ turn of her character, but the whole thing with her mother, Madeleine and her father does heavily change her mentality imo.

Fatal-Feit
01-03-2015, 12:13 AM
In a can. Just like ur kind. ( ͡░ ͜ʖ ͡░)

http://skipthepie.org/nutrition-photos/o/35008_130688600324623.jpg

Assassin_M
01-03-2015, 12:19 AM
I don't think aveline has much of a character arc

she doesnt really change

or if she did, i couldnt tell because liberation was presented in a disjointed manner
Eh, I just explained my view of her character arc. You're free to disregard but we'll be going in circles.




and what about her personality? she's sassy i guess....yeah she's strong and sympathetic but that's a given, really.
I also explained my view of her personality. And no, strength and sympathy are not a given. I felt no sympathy for Ezio after Cesare destroys his Villa and kills Mario. Idiot had it coming by sparing Rodrigo. Arno was a weak puppy who depended on others to drive him forward.


That's the thing I liked most about Liberation. Its story is so different compared to most of the other games in the series. Aveline's story, especially the part with her mother, was overall very touching.
Agreed. I loved that scene.

JustPlainQuirky
01-03-2015, 12:21 AM
i meant that they were sympathetic. not the audience

but whutevs

agree to disagree i guess

i just find her and arno both not having much to offer new in terms of protagonists in the AC franchise, but that's just me.

Fatal-Feit
01-03-2015, 12:26 AM
NVM-- I really don't want to bother.

JustPlainQuirky
01-03-2015, 12:38 AM
That being said.

Aveline's character design is awesome.

Same with Arno's

:rolleyes:

aL_____eX
01-03-2015, 12:40 AM
That being said.

Aveline's character design is awesome.

Same with Arno's

:rolleyes:
Agree. Case closed.

dargor5
01-03-2015, 03:05 AM
I really liked Arno and the story in unity. To me the part where they teamed toguether should have been longer, I really enjoyed the unity, but Elise was created as a goal oriented character. To me if she would have lived probably she would ended up betraying Arno as you see she was more interested in vengeance than him. I also wonder when will ubi will include choice in AC games as they did with Far Cry 4. It would have been great to side with Bellec and see the outcome as you get expelled from the assassins order anyway

EmbodyingSeven5
01-03-2015, 06:09 AM
really Ubisoft? after the likes of Edward Kenway and Connor and before Ezio we get Arno? one of the big reasons why Unity's story fails if you ask methe dude is a walking cliche and very dullAfter AC4 annoucement many thought that Edward was just an Ezio clone because soo many people hated on Connor (for being different) but thankfully that wasn't the casenow with Unity the fears became real I guess many got what they wanted -.-here's hoping for awesome protagonist in Victory.. it will probably another ezio clone don't get me wrong I really liked Ezio but we need variety not the same old story
I loved Arno and don't see him as an ezio clone at all. its like calling adewale a Connor clone

dargor5
01-04-2015, 03:38 AM
Is it me or Arno had very little to do with the french revolution? The only thing related to it is the angry mob and the Napoleon missions but besides that I dont see no involvement like Altair on the crusade or Connor helping with the American revolution. Maybe I missed something

Haavikk
01-04-2015, 05:46 AM
I just love the look of Unity
Wish they could redoo every Creed game with the xboxones engine
I didnt like the Romeo and Juliet part at all
The Robin hood crowd controls were ok

LeonamLobo
04-07-2015, 02:17 AM
Arno was a cool character. He's an everyday day guy who's just chill and lighthearted all the time but he's extremely vulnerable and weak. Yes, Arno is the weakest Assassin we'v had so far, not that this is a bad thing. He's a character who needs a driving force. His father's watch was a symbol for this. Arno is a dependent person. He needs others to drive him forward. In this case, that was his character development symbolized by the watch.

Every time Arno's motivation is gone, he goes back to the watch and it's still broken. His life stops, right there. On the day his father died. He never really moved on from it. At least when there's no one around him to keep him safe. he grew up with no mother. Not his real one and not a step one. Elise most likely filled A LOT of roles for Arno, like Eve did for Adam. (Arno, Elise? Adam, Eve? anyone?) She was a troublesome sister, a passionate lover and warm mother. She kept him safe. Her shadow kept him secure. Her presence was his driving force, the thing he looks forward to.

In jail, the first and only person Arno asks for is Elise. He asks for no one else, he doesn't ask for a trial, nothing. He asks only for Elise. When she doubts Arno, that's it for him. He goes back to his father's watch. it's broken, unmoving but he then resolves to try and win her back. Hope in the form of the Assassins arises and Arno begins anew. He finds a mentor, a cause and a family. He joins for a personal redemption but it's not like he never believed in the cause, he was simply young. He always tried to take the initiative with his duty as an Assassin. He says to Pierre that they should stop the fanatics, he argues with Sofie that the revolution is what people are asking for and that they should support it because freedom is its goal. He had a sense of justice that would be absent from someone like Edward early in AC IV, someone who's only solely interested in self gain. He takes it upon himself to reveal the atrocities of Saint Just and kills his Valet because of what they did, he helps a young woman by training her to regain her family's invaded house. No one tells him to go and do these things, he does them on initiative. That's because this is consistent with Arno's character. He's dependent. He needs people. He needed a reason to function.

Did anyone notice how every time Arno started giving up hope, his watch got stolen? and then returned back not through his efforts but through someone else? Arno tries to get the watch back but it ALWAYS eludes him. First in the Bastille and then in Versailles. The watch is returned to him by two very dear people. Pierre returns it and gives him his renewed motivation in prison and Elise does the same in Versailles. Both die, though. Both returned the watch and spurned him forward and both have busts of them in Arno's room. They're the only people with busts for them in Arno's room.

After Elise dies, OF COURSE he goes back to the Assassins. His watch his still there and it works again. He's moved on. He found his family among the Brotherhood. It's a complete arc in my eyes.

Of course, that's not to say I don't have problems with him or his story. I shall elaborate more on those later.

Amazing analysis! Looking from that angle I really started to like Arno. Makes him so human! The only thing that troubles me with him is the killing for a bottle of wine chapter. I like characters with flaws, that's why I don't like Ezio. He lacks flaws, lacks humanity. I find the weak and dependent Arno, or the selfish and greedy Edward much more compelling.

pirate1802
04-07-2015, 08:05 AM
In a vacuum, I don't think Arno was a bad character, but the problem is we don't like in such a vacuum. There have been many such characters in games in general and AC games as well.


I loved Arno and don't see him as an ezio clone at all. its like calling adewale a Connor clone

Rich lover boy with a sense of humour living a sheltered life, to be brutally shattered out of it one day by an incident, on the course of which he learns that his father was an assassin and he too must walk that path...

The similarity is so striking it ain't even funny. Which is heightened by him wearing an Eziolike ponytail and cloathes, in his young days, complete with an Eziolike escape from guards while causing mischief. I must not be the only one who was reminded of Ezio in Arno's 'to your health gentlemen!' scene?

Compared to that Connor and Adewale only have this much as common that they both are from persecuted minorities. They both have different upbringings, different entrypoints in the Creed and different demenours.

Defalt221
04-07-2015, 12:14 PM
Is it me or Arno had very little to do with the french revolution? The only thing related to it is the angry mob and the Napoleon missions but besides that I dont see no involvement like Altair on the crusade or Connor helping with the American revolution. Maybe I missed something

It would have been better if
-Pierre Bellec was the protagonist as he was smarter than both Arno and Elise, EXTREMELY devoted to the Creed (to the point of necessary-evil) and he was supposed to be a victim of Shay's 'unwarranted reign of Terror' and plus he knows Connor and Achilles.
-The Co-op was integrated into the story missions so the side Characters got more depth (esp Napoleon, Robespierre, Marie Levesque etc.) and also because most of the interesting part of the revolution occurs in the co op missions.
-Removing Bishop's annoying interference in the middle of the game shouting 'wa waaah!' or 'go and get that !'' or 'kill him!'. etc.

And yeah, it's like the assassins don't influence the revolution at all and the Templars are the ones manipulate it.


In a vacuum, I don't think Arno was a bad character, but the problem is we don't like in such a vacuum. There have been many such characters in games in general and AC games as well.



Rich lover boy with a sense of humour living a sheltered life, to be brutally shattered out of it one day by an incident, on the course of which he learns that his father was an assassin and he too must walk that path...

The similarity is so striking it ain't even funny. Which is heightened by him wearing an Eziolike ponytail and cloathes, in his young days, complete with an Eziolike escape from guards while causing mischief. I must not be the only one who was reminded of Ezio in Arno's 'to your health gentlemen!' scene?

Compared to that Connor and Adewale only have this much as common that they both are from persecuted minorities. They both have different upbringings, different entrypoints in the Creed and different demenours.

Yeah. Arno when wearing that white prisoner outfit strongly resembled Ezio during the siege of Monteriggioni. When I saw one screenshot like that I thought we got Ezio skins as hack or sth.

pirate1802
04-07-2015, 12:25 PM
Lol haha yes. I thought that too. It's like they didn't even try..

Shahkulu101
04-07-2015, 12:28 PM
I think they put an obvious front to Arno's character to evoke memories of Ezio and appeal to his fans, but beneath that they really are totally different characters...

pirate1802
04-07-2015, 01:23 PM
That front might have backfired eventually.

Shahkulu101
04-07-2015, 01:55 PM
That front might have backfired eventually.

No it already has, and it's a shame too because everything else about his character is ignored. It's half Ubi's fault for trying to appease Ezio fans, and half the fanboy's fault for failing to look past the attempt to recreate their Lord and Saviour even though they bloody asked for it.

GunnerGalactico
04-07-2015, 05:36 PM
No it already has, and it's a shame too because everything else about his character is ignored. It's half Ubi's fault for trying to appease Ezio fans, and half the fanboy's fault for failing to look past the attempt to recreate their Lord and Saviour even though they bloody asked for it.

^ Damn true, mate.

Namikaze_17
04-07-2015, 06:26 PM
Looking back at this, I was wrong about Arno.

Now I regret the things I've said.

Markaccus
04-07-2015, 06:31 PM
many wanted an ezio-a-like. As much as I liked ezios character, i dont think he should have had an attempted clone. Arno is similar in many ways. I have been playing unity for aboit a week, and i don't think he is the worst. There are a few others that have things i dislike and things i like about them. Arno is at a disadvantage due to the apparent clusterfk launch of the game, but now that it actually works, i cant pick any faults with him as yet.

GunnerGalactico
04-07-2015, 07:05 PM
I'm at a loss here. Some of the Ezio fans (the diehard, annoying ones only) swore to God that charm and charisma is staple for every videogame character. Ubi gave them one for Unity... now what seems to be the problem!? The fact that they are complaining that Arno is simply not "Ezio" enough or that they didn't get to see a bit of Assassin-Templar romance is just rich. When I first played Unity, I didn't see anything wrong with Arno and I didn't understand the hate towards him. One other thing that people complain about is that Arno didn't avenge his biological father. I don't see why he has to, he was only eight when his father was murdered and trail was gone cold long before he even became an Assassin. At the end of the game, he didn't want to be consumed with the idea of vengeance just as Elise was.

wvstolzing
04-07-2015, 07:16 PM
As certified fans of the series who are used to talking about in-game fictional characters as though they were real people, we might have a tendency to conflate

i) 'character' as in *who* the person is, roughly; and
ii) 'character' as fictional creation.

I haven't heard anyone argue here or elsewhere that Arno is a 'bad character' in the former sense -- he's no a-hole, for instance, like Aiden-whoever from watchdogs; neither is he dull and uninteresting *as a person*.

The problem is that he's a badly written 'interesting guy'; and what makes it worse, it's the sort of inadequate writing that characterizes *first draft*s.

Rogue is badly written in an amateruish way; that's *not* Unity's problem by any means. Unity's problem is that its 'screenplay' needed more care and attention.

I still think that he's one cardboard-cutout of a character, but that's not because I think he's dumb or anything (there are plenty of dumb characters [=in-game *people*] in AC); it's because the writing doesn't afford players anything more than one-dimensional (...two, I guess, if it's cardboard...) glimpses into who this person is.

Sure, the fans can fill-in the rest of the missing 'dimensions' in their own imagination -- and that's something you *have* to do while reading/watching/playing 'fiction' anyhow. Some of the greatest fictional characters perhaps owe their greatness to the *infinity* of interpretations they make possible into *who* they are, what their intentions were, why they said what they said, did what they did, etc.

That kind of 'open-endedness' is *not* the 'open-endedness' of a first-draft, however. Arno needed a lot more work, but the product release cycle didn't allow it; I think it really comes down to that.

Rinofuri
04-07-2015, 07:17 PM
Arno is name that I would give it to the horse.

MasterAssasin84
04-07-2015, 07:41 PM
It is purely a matter of opinion !

In respect of the overall game it has started to grow on me, I really like the combat system as it requires the players wit and skill,

I really Loved Assassins Creed 3 but there are players throughout the fan base who proclaim Connor was Boring as a Character were as me I loved Connor,

Edward will always be my favourite Assassin, however I really did enjoy exploring the splendour of Paris during the french revolution and the parkour climbing that ACU introduced, Storyline was somewhat of a mess

the_don7684
04-07-2015, 07:56 PM
I didnt think Arno was that bad as a character. However, I really feel the story line was lacking in a way. It did feel a bit shallow ( in the sense that the previous felt like there was more of a back story). I have really high hopes for the next one. I feel like there was a huge push to see what the next gen systems could do that they undermined the overall quality of the product.

m4r-k7
04-07-2015, 08:05 PM
Arno up until Sequence 4 or so is amazing. Then he becomes a dull and generic character like Aiden from Watch Dogs.

In the first few sequences, he was incredibly sarcastic which I loved. I thought he was going to be an incredible character but as the story went on, they kinda forgot about Arno as a character and just put him in the middle of a lackluster story.

Democrito_71
04-07-2015, 08:17 PM
In a vacuum, I don't think Arno was a bad character, but the problem is we don't like in such a vacuum. There have been many such characters in games in general and AC games as well.

Rich lover boy with a sense of humour living a sheltered life, to be brutally shattered out of it one day by an incident, on the course of which he learns that his father was an assassin and he too must walk that path...

The similarity is so striking it ain't even funny. Which is heightened by him wearing an Eziolike ponytail and cloathes, in his young days, complete with an Eziolike escape from guards while causing mischief. I must not be the only one who was reminded of Ezio in Arno's 'to your health gentlemen!' scene?


No it already has, and it's a shame too because everything else about his character is ignored. It's half Ubi's fault for trying to appease Ezio fans, and half the fanboy's fault for failing to look past the attempt to recreate their Lord and Saviour even though they bloody asked for it.


I'm at a loss here. Some of the Ezio fans (the diehard, annoying ones only) swore to God that charm and charisma is staple for every videogame character. Ubi gave them one for Unity... now what seems to be the problem!? The fact that they are complaining that Arno is simply not "Ezio" enough or that they didn't get to see a bit of Assassin-Templar romance is just rich. When I first played Unity, I didn't see anything wrong with Arno and I didn't understand the hate towards him. One other thing that people complain about is that Arno didn't avenge his biological father. I don't see why he has to, he was only eight when his father was murdered and trail was gone cold long before he even became an Assassin. At the end of the game, he didn't want to be consumed with the idea of vengeance just as Elise was.

I disagree that Arno would be the worst protagonist so far in AC. I did like Arno a lot as a protagonist although I think Unitys story was the worst in the franchise since the story was very inconsistence, had several plot-holes and an unsatisfying ending.

Arno has almost the same background as Ezio as pirate1802 said; "Rich lover boy with a sense of humour living a sheltered life, to be brutally shattered out of it one day by an incident, on the course of which he learns that his father was an assassin and he too must walk that path..."

Arno also looked suspiciously like Ezio with his hair color, same hair cut, a french version of younger Ezios clothes plus causing mischiefs and escapes from guards. Arnos background wasn't really that special except that he was adopted by the Grand Master of the Templar and that Arno fell in love with the Grand Masters daughter.

I think it would have been more interesting if Arno wasn't a noble and had no zero% ties to the Assassins in the first place. It would have been more interesting(imo) if Arno had a background as a peasant with no ties to the Assassins, who falls in love with the noble woman/Templar Elise and bla blah blah and then gets into the Assassin Templar conflict, instead of making him a noble which do reminds me of Ezio with his appearance, his background and the first impression I got from Arno was "ah, a new Ezio clone" but the more I played, the more I understood his personality was several steps away from Ezio and that Arno had his own personality. I think the reason why many fans calls him an "Ezio clone" is due to the first impression they/we got from Arno in the first sequence from the game.

I think If Arno had a different background(As a poor peasant for example), different clothes and hair cut & didn't start to crack witty jokes in the first sequence, he would not be seen as a Ezio clone.:cool:

Defalt221
04-09-2015, 10:36 AM
Looking back at this, I was wrong about Arno.

Now I regret the things I've said.

I'm sure that many days later (or months or even years later) similar to Connor there'll be new threads praising how the personality of Arno was so awesome etc. I mean I look at reddit and that's overflooding with Connor praises.