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View Full Version : AC Victory needs to use English language!



Rafe Harwood
12-25-2014, 09:01 PM
Seriously? You want to spell everything in bloody American?

England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Canada and Australia all know the darn 'u' is silent! We had better not see any of that abortion of a langauge the darn yanks speak in our homeland story!

Let's have the spelling of database entries in English, seeing as the guy narrating them is English!

EmptyCrustacean
12-25-2014, 09:08 PM
Yes, and Unity needed to have French accents but look how that turned out...

Assassin_M
12-25-2014, 09:10 PM
Unity needed to have French accents
No, it didn't.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-25-2014, 09:37 PM
Yes, and Unity needed to have French accents but look how that turned out...

Yeah, it was fricken ridiculous. The accents of Arno and Elise weren't even English. They were English accents butchered by Canadians desperately in need of a good dialect coach. The fact that an actor speaks English as his or her first language doesn't mean he or she can pull of a convincing accented English that's different from his or her own.

So please, for Victory, hire Britons to play the lead roles, or hire a dialect coach worth his/her salt so that the actors sound convincing.

And this goes for every future game set in any country - get actors from the region, or hire a dialect coach so the actors actually sound like they're from the region. No more of this amateurish garbage! Let's get it right! Assassin's Creed is not a fricken kindergarten play.

Hans684
12-25-2014, 10:12 PM
No, it needs French accents.

EmptyCrustacean
12-25-2014, 10:41 PM
No, it didn't.

Yes, it did. Americans need to get over this nonense of not understanding English spoken in non American accents. It's just ignorant.

Wolfmeister1010
12-25-2014, 10:57 PM
Hate to break it to you all, but every country on the planet is full of A-holes. Nobody is a special victim/ snowflake. So how bout we not get into a war about this and take things calmly.

@Empty


Um, he is not American

Rafe Harwood
12-25-2014, 10:59 PM
Yes, it did. Americans need to get over this nonense of not understanding English spoken in non American accents. It's just ignorant.

Although I agree with this in principle, all the games have always been voiced by the same lot.

It's amusing to run through the streets of Paris to hear Blackbeard berating someone for something and a lot of the female voice work seems to be done by the same woman who voiced the beggars in the original AC's. "Please sir, I'm poor, my family is dying".

This whole thing of wanting a different accent to the speech is completely new to this single entry in the series. Why would you complain about French when we didn't have Turkish/Israeli/Italian whatever accents in the earlier games? Let's all get off that particular bandwagon before we end up riding it into the harboUr ;)

EmptyCrustacean
12-25-2014, 11:15 PM
Hate to break it to you all, but every country on the planet is full of A-holes. Nobody is a special victim/ snowflake. So how bout we not get into a war about this and take things calmly.

@Empty


Um, he is not American

I didn't say he was. I was speaking in general. This issue with not understanding accents is an American thing and that is WHY Ubisoft decided not to go with French accents - they knew Americans wouldn't like it otherwise. I've experienced it with Americans and I'm British!
Unity needed to have French accents and, for me, the various other accents broke immersion especially when they DID decide to pronounce things in French.

Wolfmeister1010
12-25-2014, 11:23 PM
I didn't say he was. I was speaking in general. This issue with not understanding accents is an American thing and that is WHY Ubisoft decided not to go with French accents - they knew Americans wouldn't like it otherwise. I've experienced it with Americans and I'm British!
Unity needed to have French accents and, for me, the various other accents broke immersion especially when they DID decide to pronounce things in French.

No.Ubisoft, a CANADIAN/FRENCH company, did it to make it more like a "movie". In fact, they cited the movie "The Gladiator" as an example of british accents in movies. And it was made in England, by the English, by Riddley Scott in fact. A crappy reason still, the whole movie thing, but not to cater to Americans.

Also, you call Americans ignorant but then go on to call us "darn yanks" which is very disrespectful. And you call our way of speaking, quote, "an abortion". So please refrain from offensive comments.

EmptyCrustacean
12-25-2014, 11:34 PM
No.Ubisoft, a CANADIAN/FRENCH company, did it to make it more like a "movie". In fact, they cited the movie "The Gladiator" as an example of british accents in movies. And it was made in England, by the English, by Riddley Scott in fact. So please don't continue to embarrass yourself. A crappy reason still, the whole movie thing, but not to cater to Americans.

Also, you call Americans ignorant but then go on to call us "darn yanks" which is very disrespectful. And you call our way of speaking, quote, "an abortion". So please refrain from offensive comments.

What has Ubisoft being CANADIAN/FRENCH (lol) got to do with anything? They were pandering to American audiences just like Hollywood movies do. There - I've combined BOTH reasonings behind the accent change. Where in my post have I said "an abortion" or "darn yanks"? Please turn off your 'Murica F' yeah!" rage for one second and realise that I actually have no beef with Americans in general and recognise there are idiots everywhere. But my one annoyance is the unwillingness to tune their ear to any accent that isn't American, Canadian or British - and even with British accents they sometimes still fumble over.

Wolfmeister1010
12-26-2014, 12:04 AM
What has Ubisoft being CANADIAN/FRENCH (lol) got to do with anything? They were pandering to American audiences just like Hollywood movies do. There - I've combined BOTH reasonings behind the accent change. Where in my post have I said "an abortion" or "darn yanks"? Please turn off your 'Murica F' yeah!" rage for one second and realise that I actually have no beef with Americans in general and recognise there are idiots everywhere. But my one annoyance is the unwillingness to tune their ear to any accent that isn't American, Canadian or British - and even with British accents they sometimes still fumble over.

The ignorance is strong here.

I'm not gonna argue with you mate. Have fun with..whatever this thread is supposed to accomplish

Namikaze_17
12-26-2014, 12:07 AM
And once again...another debate about Accents. -__-

Where's Mega? :rolleyes:

If you're reading this, I'm just messing.

I love you, man. ;)

Assassin_M
12-26-2014, 12:10 AM
Yes, it did. Americans need to get over this nonense of not understanding English spoken in non American accents. It's just ignorant.
No it didn't and since you know I'm not american, the rest of your reply makes no sense but nonetheless, once you give concrete proof that this is because Americans don't want accents, I'll be more inclined to believe that theory.

Foreigners need to get over this nonsense of wanting accents for people speaking their language for "immersion". It's superficial.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-26-2014, 12:15 AM
Just FYI, Canadians are Americans. North Americans to be precise.

Also, many Hollywood movies are made in England. Gladiator was produced by Dreamworks and Universal Studios, both American companies. Ridley Scott was born in England, but his production company, Scott Free, is an Anglo-American company, with offices in London and Los Angeles. Calling Gladiator an English movie is like calling Star Wars an English movie. Yes, they were partially shot in England, but that doesn't make them English films.

As for calling the American accent "an abortion", and saying "darn Yanks", (if he said it - I can't find it) he's just trying to get a rise out of you. It's a humor thing - people in the British Commonwealth have a very dry and somewhat antagonistic sense of humor. I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Ureh
12-26-2014, 12:38 AM
Shaun said the same thing remember?! :p



from:
shaun hastings


to:
d. Miles; w. Miles; r. Crane


date/time:
nov. 1st, 2012 22:41


subject:
:( :( :(



Good Lord, Rebecca - with all the "fixes" and "updates" and "improvements" you supposedly put into this recent software revision, one would think you would have had the decency to include a British English dictionary in the spellchecker. Some of us prefer to use PROPER language when corresponding. The database keeps trying to replace the letter s with zed in certain words. And it's declared war on the letter u as well. Realise becomes realize and colour becomes color. Wrong wrong wrong!

It's all rather ethnocentric if you ask me. Also quite against the principles of the Assassin Brotherhood, last I checked. And here I thought we were meant to be an all inclusive bunch...

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Shaun_Hastings%27_email

Rafe Harwood
12-26-2014, 12:41 AM
Just to clear things up as the wrong person was accused/quoted.

Those were said by me in my original post. Yes, the bastardisation of the English language into American is/was an abortion.

However, context is required. Let alone actual content. My original post had nothing to do with the spoken word, that was added later through several 'adjustments' of the original topic (which is cool, all conversations are organic to a lesser or greater extent). It is the written word that was in question. Hence my sarcastic emphasising of the U in a later post ;)

--- edit ---

As Ureh just perfectly showed lol

Pr0metheus 1962
12-26-2014, 01:04 AM
Yes, the bastardisation of the English language into American is/was an abortion.

I'm guessing you're completely unaware that the rhotic R - the most noticeable difference between spoken American English and British English, was not an American creation. It was common throughout the English-speaking world until the late 1800s. America kept it while it fell out of use in the UK, Australia and New Zealand (except in areas like Cornwall (UK) and Invercargill (NZ). If anything is a "bastardization" from a "perfect original" (if any such thing exists), it's British English.

And this is coming from an Englishman (although admittedly I claim to be a Yorkshireman first - and we Northerners kept the "thees and thous" that the rest of England dropped in the 17th Century - does that make Yorkshire folk "bastards" too?) ;)

Rafe Harwood
12-26-2014, 01:27 AM
I'm guessing you're completely unaware that the rhotic R - the most noticeable difference between spoken American English and British English, was not an American creation. It was common throughout the English-speaking world until the late 1800s. America kept it while it fell out of use in the UK, Australia and New Zealand (except in areas like Cornwall (UK) and Invercargill (NZ). If anything is a "bastardization" from a "perfect original" (if any such thing exists), it's British English.

And this is coming from an Englishman (although admittedly I claim to be a Yorkshireman first - and we Northerners kept the "thees and thous" that the rest of England dropped in the 17th Century - does that make Yorkshire folk "bastards" too?) ;)

Well your 'altering' the meaning of a word is in keeping lol

As for calling it British English, I absolutely object. We should be using English to denote British English and American English instead of straight English when speaking of the American usage, if not simply American.

I can understand the Yorkshireman thing. It's fairly well known lol :D

--- edit ---

Sheesh, took me a while to notice you actually went all American on the spelling too! Call yourself a Yorkshireman? pfft

Pr0metheus 1962
12-26-2014, 03:03 AM
Well your 'altering' the meaning of a word is in keeping lol

I have no idea what you mean. But whatever.


As for calling it British English, I absolutely object. We should be using English to denote British English and American English instead of straight English when speaking of the American usage, if not simply American.

Oh for goodness sake! What difference does it make? I mean, do we really have to be that ****ing childish now?


Sheesh, took me a while to notice you actually went all American on the spelling too! Call yourself a Yorkshireman? pfft

Well, what would you know about being a Yorkshireman - you're from Sussex. You probably think "Fall" is an American word for Autumn, and not a Northern English word. Anyway, I live in America. When in Rome...

Journey95
12-26-2014, 03:41 AM
No it didn't and since you know I'm not american, the rest of your reply makes no sense but nonetheless, once you give concrete proof that this is because Americans don't want accents, I'll be more inclined to believe that theory.

Foreigners need to get over this nonsense of wanting accents for people speaking their language for "immersion". It's superficial.


no it isn't its actually very important imagine Connor having a "normal" american accent instead of his native american one
it would suck just like it did with Arno its a shame so many players don't give a damm about immersion and atmosphere thats probably why Ubi abandoned the whole accent thing
instead of improving on it they figured most would buy their animus excuses

Altair1789
12-26-2014, 03:47 AM
I think the worst situation (at least for me) was Alta´r's american accent in AC1

Rafe Harwood
12-26-2014, 04:07 AM
I have no idea what you mean. But whatever.



Oh for goodness sake! What difference does it make? I mean, do we really have to be that ****ing childish now?



Well, what would you know about being a Yorkshireman - you're from Sussex. You probably think "Fall" is an American word for Autumn, and not a Northern English word. Anyway, I live in America. When in Rome...

Yes, I am from Sussex. And your point is?

None of your jibes have anything to do with the matter at hand. Using English spelling in a game about an English time period, narrated/anotated by an Englishman.

Hrafnagud72
12-26-2014, 05:14 AM
I agree that the accents need to be real. Hard to be immersed in a time period when no one sounds like they belong there.

But the childish bickering about the way English is spoken is ridiculous. What makes your version of English right and my version wrong? The only difference is they are different, one is not superior to the other. So quit arguing about dumb **** and grow the **** up.

RADAR__4077
12-26-2014, 05:44 AM
I think this whole argument is absolutely hilarious! Just for kicks I'm gonna stir the pot a bit by saying America earned the right to speak any variation of English we want after a militia made up of farmers and other every day citizens drove out one of the mightiest military forces of the time. Let the angry responses begin lol

wvstolzing
12-26-2014, 07:08 AM
If anything is a "bastardization" from a "perfect original" (if any such thing exists), it's British English.

Related fun fact: Elizabethan 'British English' probably sounded closer to present-day American English, than present-day British English.

Look up the series 'Playing Shakespeare' on youtube; the claim comes from none other than John Barton, director of the RSC (at the time) and a prodigious Shakespeare scholar.

(Further related point: The English language owes its richness precisely to the fact that it's an exquisite 'bastardization', many times over; the most significant probably being the infusion of its Anglo-Saxon roots with French, following 1066. If anything is closer to 'the perfect original' English (?!), it's probably Danish.)

Assassin_M
12-26-2014, 07:54 AM
no it isn't its actually very important imagine Connor having a "normal" american accent instead of his native american one
it would suck just like it did with Arno its a shame so many players don't give a damm about immersion and atmosphere thats probably why Ubi abandoned the whole accent thing
instead of improving on it they figured most would buy their animus excuses
No, it's not. No one speaks their language with an accent, no one. That's first, and second, immersion is subjective AC II, ACR and ACB were terrible to me because of the cringeworthy accents. I was more immersed in AC I with an American accent done by a guy who can actually speak Arabic and pronounce the language correctly. Accents can go to **** for all I care.

And Connor didn't have a Native American accent.

wvstolzing
12-26-2014, 07:58 AM
French & German voiceovers for AC don't bother with accents either, and they aren't missed one little bit.

Whenever I hear bits of Ezio's 'accented' English, it makes me cringe.

VestigialLlama4
12-26-2014, 08:26 AM
Seriously? You want to spell everything in bloody American?

England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Canada and Australia all know the darn 'u' is silent! We had better not see any of that abortion of a langauge the darn yanks speak in our homeland story!

Let's have the spelling of database entries in English, seeing as the guy narrating them is English!

Look, since players know that its set in Victorian London, they don't need period accents, so let's hear everyone speak in 21st Century American accents which the Americans are translating it into. I want Ubisoft Logic to go the full distance.

Seriously speaking, if they are going to go to Victorian London, a terrific concept to innovate in an open world setting is to make accents a core gameplay element. In London at the time, people from different areas, based on their class, had different accents and middle-class climbing up the ladder, hired coaches to improve their accent and pronunciations. That's what PYGMALION by Shaw is about. It was not possible in this era for people of different classes to integrate well because the accents and physical apperances made social stratification clear. And it wasn't easy for a person of a upper class area to go safely in a poor area and vice versa.

Most open world gaming operates on the myth of a classless society, that a single dude(often white, always male) can be anywhere, go anywhere, get access to all kinds of areas and fit in effortlessly. The Victorian Era, being that its a popular period setting, and quasi-universal allows them to explore class as a real gameplay mechanic. Assassin has to blend and capture accents sounds as he moves in new areas, has to dress differently, correct his body posture and the like. Or they can introduce multiple characters.

VestigialLlama4
12-26-2014, 08:31 AM
And Connor didn't have a Native American accent.

Actually Noah Watts says he modelled his accents on Rez (Reservation). His approach was to make Connor's English highly studied, using no contractions, which is why it sounds like he's pronouncing from a textbook at times. It's one reason why I found Connor fascinating since I knew many people who spoke English in that studied, polished way since it wasn't their first language.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-26-2014, 10:40 AM
Whenever I hear bits of Ezio's 'accented' English, it makes me cringe.

It wouldn't if Ubisoft had either hired a real Italian to play the role, or hired a proper dialect coach. Accents should be there, but they should be done right.

EmptyCrustacean
12-26-2014, 12:48 PM
No it didn't and since you know I'm not american, the rest of your reply makes no sense but nonetheless, once you give concrete proof that this is because Americans don't want accents, I'll be more inclined to believe that theory.

Foreigners need to get over this nonsense of wanting accents for people speaking their language for "immersion". It's superficial.

Um, Ubisoft is largely a French/Canadian company and Unity is set in Paris so the only 'foreigners' in this instance are the non French. French people have every right to want to hear their accents in a French game.

EmptyCrustacean
12-26-2014, 12:54 PM
Just FYI, Canadians are Americans. North Americans to be precise.

Also, many Hollywood movies are made in England. Gladiator was produced by Dreamworks and Universal Studios, both American companies. Ridley Scott was born in England, but his production company, Scott Free, is an Anglo-American company, with offices in London and Los Angeles. Calling Gladiator an English movie is like calling Star Wars an English movie. Yes, they were partially shot in England, but that doesn't make them English films.

As for calling the American accent "an abortion", and saying "darn Yanks", (if he said it - I can't find it) he's just trying to get a rise out of you. It's a humor thing - people in the British Commonwealth have a very dry and somewhat antagonistic sense of humor. I wouldn't take it too seriously.

I never said that. He's LYING. And I'm a she, thank you very much. Furthermore, why are people bringing up Ridley Scott as a source of reference? This is a man who has a history for inapproriate casting decisions. He has very recently come under critcism for casting white people in a movie about ANCIENT EGYPT as the main characters and the black people as slaves, and was quoted as saying that audiences would not watch it otherwise. I actually boycotted the movie. I'm tired of seeing African history being hijacked. That's actually the reason why I don't want Ubisoft to ever make a game about Ancient Egyptians. You just know it's going to be white washed with people talking in English accents. Ugh.

Anyway, off topic. TCALSS: I just want the right accents for the right setting. Period.

EmptyCrustacean
12-26-2014, 12:58 PM
Just to clear things up as the wrong person was accused/quoted.

Those were said by me in my original post. Yes, the bastardisation of the English language into American is/was an abortion.

However, context is required. Let alone actual content. My original post had nothing to do with the spoken word, that was added later through several 'adjustments' of the original topic (which is cool, all conversations are organic to a lesser or greater extent). It is the written word that was in question. Hence my sarcastic emphasising of the U in a later post ;)

--- edit ---

As Ureh just perfectly showed lol

Well, there you have it. Wolfmeister1010 must have sucked at the murder mystery missions because he seems to be accusing the wrong people all over the place lol

RinoTheBouncer
12-26-2014, 01:41 PM
I enjoyed ACI with its American accent a lot more than Altair’s so-called foreign accent in AC:R. The former reminded me of how Prince of Egypt film was done. It used American and British accents to portray the two lead characters whom are Egyptian Pharaohs and Hebrews. It felt natural and immersive that way. I’m not American. I’m Iraqi and I speak American accent because that’s how I learned the accent in Iraq and mainly from Video Games, Music, Cartoons and Films.

However, I did enjoy the Italian accent for Ezio and the others. I can’t imagine Ezio speaking American-English, nor can I imagine an American-English speaking Chinese protagonist. Unity wasn’t such a big deal. I didn’t mind the British accents, but I think it doesn’t work with all games and settings.

To be perfectly honest, I might not care much about these things, except for the ones that truly stand out. I mean I have no basic rule where they must either use an accent or not use it at all. I don’t really care about sandbox missions or whatever they’re called nor even gameplay mechanics. Just give me a brilliant story in the modern day and historical segments and 3rd person gameplay in both sides, with a beautiful setting and time period and I’ll be happy. I couldn’t care less if they even spoke their own accent and I relied only on English subs. Just make the game epic and interesting.

Megas_Doux
12-26-2014, 04:20 PM
And once again...another debate about Accents. -__-

Where's Mega? :rolleyes:

If you're reading this, I'm just messing.

I love you, man. ;)

Here I am and


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1TcnQxV4BE


I just dont get the fuss about having fake/goofy accents to begin with. Pretty much the entire maintream productions of historical stuff in any media EVER no matter if meant to be either fictional or accurare has lacked that and no one has complained until now .There were no goofy/fake accents in 300, Gladiator, the Borgias, Vikings, El Cid, Ben Hur and like 48903284024809248024 things of that nature.

I CRINGE everytime I read, see or hear about how "good" the italian accents were in Ezio┤s trilogy and how those must be back because if anything I want the actors using their natural voices......For I believe that not many of them can pull an accent, mostly if that specific accent is from a completely different language.....

Jackdaw951
12-26-2014, 08:40 PM
Yes, it did. Americans need to get over this nonense of not understanding English spoken in non American accents. It's just ignorant.

I understand the Queen's just fine, like I understand Castillian just fine, even though my Spanish is from the New World. What I can't understand are the toothless brogues so many of the limeys speak. I think there are plenty of British subjects who feel the same way. Learn to talk already. Then we all could understand each other.

The same goes for a lot of backwoods hillbillies around here, so don't think I'm being nationalistic, or anything.

Oh, and I know all about honour, and programmes, and fortnights. Not all yanks are ignorant or provincial, you know.

HDinHB
12-27-2014, 12:41 AM
I just dont get the fuss about having fake/goofy accents to begin with. Pretty much the entire maintream productions of historical stuff in any media EVER no matter if meant to be either fictional or accurare has lacked that and no one has complained until now .There were no goofy/fake accents in 300, Gladiator, the Borgias, Vikings, El Cid, Ben Hur and like 48903284024809248024 things of that nature.


I can't tell from this if you consider the accents in Unity to be goofy or not. Certainly they aren't in the same class with any of the films you listed (Vikings had a unique accent compared to the others in your list, and I haven't seen El Cid). Unity's accents are (arguably) more distracting than the accents in The Musketeers BBC series. It was tolerable until Belloc dropped his "arse" and random goons started throwing "pillock" around. They made poor choices, and Amancio's claim it was a purely artistic one is not credible.


I understand the Queen's just fine, like I understand Castillian just fine, even though my Spanish is from the New World. What I can't understand are the toothless brogues so many of the limeys speak. I think there are plenty of British subjects who feel the same way. Learn to talk already. Then we all could understand each other.


You mean like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ng3fG1u4Xg


Shorter version, with subtitles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM45TACI4H4


Swedish version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSpJOph2CQc

D.I.D.
12-27-2014, 03:41 AM
Related fun fact: Elizabethan 'British English' probably sounded closer to present-day American English, than present-day British English.

Look up the series 'Playing Shakespeare' on youtube; the claim comes from none other than John Barton, director of the RSC (at the time) and a prodigious Shakespeare scholar.

(Further related point: The English language owes its richness precisely to the fact that it's an exquisite 'bastardization', many times over; the most significant probably being the infusion of its Anglo-Saxon roots with French, following 1066. If anything is closer to 'the perfect original' English (?!), it's probably Danish.)

That's an often-repeated claim, and it's patently wrong.

First of all: Australians, New Zealanders. Where did their accents come from, and how come they sound so similar to English accents?

Secondly, have you noticed that when people with certain Irish accents speak in sentences with few words, they can sound American? How tonally, many American English accents have the same lilt as English spoken by Netherlanders? How the softened "T" in American accents sounds like a "D", in an identical way to English spoken by people from the Netherlands and Germany?

That's because American accents are a blend of the main settlers there: English accents are in there, but with heavy influence from the Irish and Dutch settlers, and to a lesser extent the Germans and the French. It's essentially English spoken with a blended Irish-Dutch accent.

It's useful to examine historical writing, but it's a huge mistake to assume that a piece which seems like it ought to rhyme must have done so in its day. Lots of surviving songs and poems clearly never did rhyme, and the requirements for a rhyme were simply looser. In fact, a Christmas carol show this. In "The Holly and the Ivy":


The holly and the ivy, when they are both full grown,Of all the trees that are in the wood, the holly bears the crown.


We might try and argue that "grown" and "crown" were once pronounced the same way, but that would be quite a leap.


Oh, the rising of the sun and the running of the deer,The playing of the merry organ, sweet singing in the choir.

How about this? To believe this was once a hard rhyme, we have to believe one of three things: that "deer" was once pronounced like "dire"; that "choir" was once pronounced like "q-ueer"; or that these two words simply never rhymed all that well, but people didn't care so much about that at the time. The last one is by far the most credible.

British accents are remarkably persistent. Even with all the unifying effects of TV and radio, despite the inconvenient barriers to communication that the range of British accents presents, we still have dramatically different accents across a tiny landmass. Without doubt, many accents have changed in small ways. Audio recordings show us that one of today's harsher Liverpool accents is a new development, and there are people around who are old enough to remember that change, but this new accent is still fundamentally the same as its precedents. We have written articles and references in books to alterations in accents. There are weird pockets of England such as Corby, where an influx of Scottish steelworkers forever changed the accents in the town, but importantly the result is that one set of people has a Northamptonshire accent and another sounds Glaswegian.

So if we are to believe that I'm wrong, and the base of USA accents is the "real" English accent that we all somehow lost and replaced with at least 50 distinct accents - where is that USA accent now? Why is there not even one little island where that accent remains? Why, after a century of American radio, cinema, music and TV blasted all over us, have we not regained one scrap of this simultaneously hard-wearing and yet easily lost accent? Linguists can't have it both ways. Australian accents made a mark on British speech when Australian soap operas became hits in the UK in the mid 80s, resulting in a trend towards "upspeak", a rising inflection towards the end of a sentence that makes it sound like a question. We've seen Jamaican culture affecting the accents of new generations in London increasingly since the 70s, and beyond London since 2000. But while UK culture is influenced by US culture more than any other culture in the world, all of that US media has failed to affect British speech in any similar way.

MODS: I just had to write "q-ueer" in order to get around your automod. The automod does a lot of stupid things, but this one is straight-up offensive. You do not, and will never. have a problem with homophobes using that word offensively because it's no longer the 20th century, but censoring it does prevent any positive use of the word with any meaning. If you would not censor "gay", please do not censor "q-ueer".

rob1990312
01-16-2015, 06:01 AM
That's an often-repeated claim, and it's patently wrong.

First of all: Australians, New Zealanders. Where did their accents come from, and how come they sound so similar to English accents?

Secondly, have you noticed that when people with certain Irish accents speak in sentences with few words, they can sound American? How tonally, many American English accents have the same lilt as English spoken by Netherlanders? How the softened "T" in American accents sounds like a "D", in an identical way to English spoken by people from the Netherlands and Germany?

That's because American accents are a blend of the main settlers there: English accents are in there, but with heavy influence from the Irish and Dutch settlers, and to a lesser extent the Germans and the French. It's essentially English spoken with a blended Irish-Dutch accent.

It's useful to examine historical writing, but it's a huge mistake to assume that a piece which seems like it ought to rhyme must have done so in its day. Lots of surviving songs and poems clearly never did rhyme, and the requirements for a rhyme were simply looser. In fact, a Christmas carol show this. In "The Holly and the Ivy":



We might try and argue that "grown" and "crown" were once pronounced the same way, but that would be quite a leap.



How about this? To believe this was once a hard rhyme, we have to believe one of three things: that "deer" was once pronounced like "dire"; that "choir" was once pronounced like "q-ueer"; or that these two words simply never rhymed all that well, but people didn't care so much about that at the time. The last one is by far the most credible.

British accents are remarkably persistent. Even with all the unifying effects of TV and radio, despite the inconvenient barriers to communication that the range of British accents presents, we still have dramatically different accents across a tiny landmass. Without doubt, many accents have changed in small ways. Audio recordings show us that one of today's harsher Liverpool accents is a new development, and there are people around who are old enough to remember that change, but this new accent is still fundamentally the same as its precedents. We have written articles and references in books to alterations in accents. There are weird pockets of England such as Corby, where an influx of Scottish steelworkers forever changed the accents in the town, but importantly the result is that one set of people has a Northamptonshire accent and another sounds Glaswegian.

So if we are to believe that I'm wrong, and the base of USA accents is the "real" English accent that we all somehow lost and replaced with at least 50 distinct accents - where is that USA accent now? Why is there not even one little island where that accent remains? Why, after a century of American radio, cinema, music and TV blasted all over us, have we not regained one scrap of this simultaneously hard-wearing and yet easily lost accent? Linguists can't have it both ways. Australian accents made a mark on British speech when Australian soap operas became hits in the UK in the mid 80s, resulting in a trend towards "upspeak", a rising inflection towards the end of a sentence that makes it sound like a question. We've seen Jamaican culture affecting the accents of new generations in London increasingly since the 70s, and beyond London since 2000. But while UK culture is influenced by US culture more than any other culture in the world, all of that US media has failed to affect British speech in any similar way.

MODS: I just had to write "q-ueer" in order to get around your automod. The automod does a lot of stupid things, but this one is straight-up offensive. You do not, and will never. have a problem with homophobes using that word offensively because it's no longer the 20th century, but censoring it does prevent any positive use of the word with any meaning. If you would not censor "gay", please do not censor "q-ueer".

!people with certain irish accents speak in sentences with few words"
what are you talking about?
we irish not so stuuupid ;)
on a unrelated note there are stil places in the carribean(montserrat) that have black people that speak with a slight irish accent because the influx of irish slaves and exiles that mixed with the black slaves centuries ago