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View Full Version : (Poll) Black Flag vs Rogue: Which did you like more and why?



Defalt221
12-23-2014, 02:09 PM
http://static4.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_medium/1197/11970954/2396855-ac4blackflag.jpeg

VS

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Assassin%27s_Creed_Rogue.jpg

LoyalACFan
12-23-2014, 02:59 PM
Didn't play Rogue so I can't vote honestly, but story-wise (watched a walkthrough on YT) I liked AC4 WAYYY better. Edward was a more well-rounded, believable character IMO, and he didn't have that lameass "I make my own luck" catchphrase :rolleyes: I also thought the reason Shay left the Assassins in the first place was super contrived, but I know I'm in the minority on that so that's all I'll say on that front.

And from what I can tell Rogue is basically just AC4's younger, dumber cousin gameplay-wise, so I'm tempted to just cast an AC4 vote.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-23-2014, 04:04 PM
Black Flag. I realize it's totally irrational, but I always feel cold when I'm playing Rogue. To me, it's a game for a hot summer, not for winter, so although I bought the game, I probably won't even really start playing it until next July. I played through the first couple of sequences, but I just couldn't get motivated due to the above issue.

Also, Black Flag is set during the Golden Age of Piracy, whereas Rogue is set during the French and Indian War - pirates are a lot more fun for me.

We drink and we pillage
and we do what we please!
We get all that we want for free!
We'll kick your ***
and rape your lass!
Somalian pirates we!

So with a yo ho ho
and with a yee hee hee
We take to the African sea!
We'll break the squalls
and bust your balls!
Somalian pirates we!

We left our homes
and we left our mothers
to go on a pillaging spree!
We'll cut off your ears
and break your toes
and make you drink our pee!

and if you sail into our waters
you best hear this decree-
We'll take your boat
set your *** afloat-
Somalian pirates we!

With a yo ho ho
and a trick a la tee doo
We'll shoot you in the face with glee!
We will cut off your ****
and feed it to a croc-
Somalian pirates weeeeeeeeeee!!!

Defalt221
12-23-2014, 04:23 PM
I liked Rogue better. Mainly because it portrays the Assassin vs Templar conflict better than Black Flag.
It really felt like a real war between Assassins and Templar.

Aphex_Tim
12-23-2014, 07:47 PM
I also thought the reason Shay left the Assassins in the first place was super contrived, but I know I'm in the minority on that so that's all I'll say on that front.


Nope. It was a stupid-*** reason.
In my opinion, the fault lies with Shay himself. All the Assassins knew was that the box and manuscript could lead them to a precursor site and a potential Piece of Eden. Naturally, they wouldn't want the Templars to get their hands on one so they would like to get there first. Shay then proceeds to pick up an object unknown to him (or anyone, for that matter) at the precursor site, destroying Lisbon as a result. Then, instead of blaming himself, he blames the Assassins and in particular Achilles. As if they could've know.
But what bothers me most is that he then joins the Templars because of that. Honestly, if the Templars had deciphered the manuscript and got to the precursor site first, it is very likely that the exact same would've happened.

JustPlainQuirky
12-23-2014, 08:02 PM
Black Flag.

Rogue had a much superior story IMO, but in terms of side content and overworld in general, ACIV crushes Rogue.

Even the presentation/polish in Black Flag is generally better.

SlyTrooper
12-23-2014, 08:45 PM
Rogue for me. I just enjoyed everything more.

lothario-da-be
12-23-2014, 09:46 PM
This was a really tough choice, but I chose black flag.
While I really enjoyed Rogue it didn't really do anything that ac4 didn't do. And in terms of story I kinda like both equal but Rogue's story was much shorter so yeah.

Journey95
12-23-2014, 10:02 PM
Black Flag no doubt I was actually really excited for Rogue (because it was the first templar game) but
Shay got on my nerves and the story was way too short
I thought Edward was a Ezio clone at first but he surprised me and I loved his emotional journey from pirate to an assassin!

Shahkulu101
12-23-2014, 10:04 PM
Assassin's Creed IV.

Superior in every way.

Namikaze_17
12-23-2014, 10:44 PM
Gameplay & Story? Black Flag.

However I like Shay better than Edward.

Hrafnagud72
12-24-2014, 06:07 AM
Something about Edward just irked the **** out of me. Not sure what it was but I couldn't stand him. So I gotta choose Rogue. Plus that assassin killer outfit was pretty badass. I would have liked the viking outfit if it wasn't for that goofy *** helmet.

LoyalACFan
12-24-2014, 06:38 AM
Nope. It was a stupid-*** reason.
In my opinion, the fault lies with Shay himself. All the Assassins knew was that the box and manuscript could lead them to a precursor site and a potential Piece of Eden. Naturally, they wouldn't want the Templars to get their hands on one so they would like to get there first. Shay then proceeds to pick up an object unknown to him (or anyone, for that matter) at the precursor site, destroying Lisbon as a result. Then, instead of blaming himself, he blames the Assassins and in particular Achilles. As if they could've know.
But what bothers me most is that he then joins the Templars because of that. Honestly, if the Templars had deciphered the manuscript and got to the precursor site first, it is very likely that the exact same would've happened.

I agree. It's not like the Assassins knew what was going to happen. In the pre-release media they made it sound like Shay became disillusioned with the Assassins' ways, and they came to kill him because he knew too much or something. Well, no, they tried to kill him because he stormed into their headquarters shouting nonsense, attacked their leader, and stole a precious artifact. They had pretty legitimate grievances with him.

That said, I appreciate the fact that he became a Templar gradually through his friendship with Monro, instead of saying "**** the Assassins, I'm a Templar now."

Namikaze_17
12-24-2014, 07:06 AM
instead of blaming himself, he blames the Assassins and in particular Achilles.

"All those souls lost, one more hardly matters."

Sure, Shay blamed the Assassins for the most part, but that doesn't mean he didn't blame himself in some way.

Problem is the story never went into it.

^ This quote in itself shows he did blame himself in way and was willing to sacrifice himself so it didn't happen again.

I agree. It's not like the Assassins knew what was going to happen. In the pre-release media they made it sound like Shay became disillusioned with the Assassins' ways, and they came to kill him because he knew too much or something. Well, no, they tried to kill him because he stormed into their headquarters shouting nonsense, attacked their leader, and stole a precious artifact. They had pretty legitimate grievances with him.

That said, I appreciate the fact that he became a Templar gradually through his friendship with Monro, instead of saying "**** the Assassins, I'm a Templar now."


It's not like the Assassins knew what was going to happen.

Neither did Shay, but does that make it any better?

Sure, Shay caused it, but they ordered him to go there which means they indirectly caused the incident too oblivious or not.

Besides, they should've at least known that messing with artifacts crafted by mysterious beings would've been disastrous in some way.


Well, no, they tried to kill him because he stormed into their headquarters shouting nonsense

Well can you blame him? The guy witnessed a whole city being destroyed. How would you have reacted?

And then they try to kill him because he actually spoke up and tried to warn everyone. That's fair.



attacked their leader

Achilles attacked Shay first. :rolleyes:



and stole a precious artifact.

Shay only intended to get rid of the manuscript so that neither sides could get it.

Then Achilles came in, accused Shay of betrayal, and irrationally threw him in a window.

Shay then fought back and escaped.


Plus:The Assassins were planning to stop/kill Shay beforehand.

So their "grievances" were just them trying to finish the Job.

Defalt221
12-24-2014, 10:41 AM
Nope. It was a stupid-*** reason.
In my opinion, the fault lies with Shay himself. All the Assassins knew was that the box and manuscript could lead them to a precursor site and a potential Piece of Eden. Naturally, they wouldn't want the Templars to get their hands on one so they would like to get there first. Shay then proceeds to pick up an object unknown to him (or anyone, for that matter) at the precursor site, destroying Lisbon as a result. Then, instead of blaming himself, he blames the Assassins and in particular Achilles. As if they could've know.
But what bothers me most is that he then joins the Templars because of that. Honestly, if the Templars had deciphered the manuscript and got to the precursor site first, it is very likely that the exact same would've happened.

Exactly. The Templars would do it too. Shay is an idiot.

pirate1802
12-24-2014, 01:01 PM
Is this a srs question? O.o

I feel the reason Rogue gets a lot of praise for its story is due to the 'edge' factor (playing as a Templar, killing assassins and such), while AC IV's story is genuinely a strong one without relying on crutches to prop it up. That Rogue had about half the number of sequences to show its story makes it an almost unfair comparison

Gameplaywise, yes Rogue did add some minor improvements, but overall, the side missions are a lot less fun than Black Flag's ones.

And lastly, locationwise, on one hand you have the beautiful Havana and Kingston, the other game gives you a sickly New York. The warm and sunny Caribean too looks a lot more inviting that the River valley and Icy Atlantic

Overall Black Flag looks and feels like a proper AC game, Rogue feels like a DLC. Hence a fair comparison it isn't. Now if we were comparing Rogue to Freedom Cry...

ze_topazio
12-24-2014, 01:25 PM
Rogue is a genuinely interesting story, it has nothing to do with "edge".

phoenix-force411
12-24-2014, 01:56 PM
I liked Rogue more than ACIV, actually...


Shay began doubting the purpose on why he was killing those templars in the beginning. He did it for the cause, but he didn't believe in the purpose. He was a brash young man, and during his time when he was sailing with Liam he was quite disrespectful towards those above him. At the time, the assassins' mission did not concern the people. As of now, the assassins are obsessed with the precursor artifacts, and Adewale just returned with news of an earthquake that happened after they went to retrieve an artifact. If Achilles was so wise, he would have stopped the search for the artifacts knowing that earthquakes happened every time he sent someone to retrieve an artifact(if they did attempt to secure more artifacts prior to this event). Achilles was still going to pursue more artifacts even after what happened in Lisbon which was caused by Shay accidentally. Instead of Achilles handling the situation with Shay appropriately, they had him tossed out of the house. I'm sure Shay was being impulsive at the time when he went to go yell at Achilles. Shay blames himself for the thousands of deaths he caused unknowingly. Do you think you can just sit idly by and do nothing about the damage you've caused? Shay had blood on his hands just as much as Achilles did, and he was not going to let Achilles cause another catastrophe therefore he tried to flee with the manuscript, but was then shot down and later retrieved by George Monro. Because Shay was still new to the brotherhood, Achilles did not listen to him nor did the others. The main problem here is that Achilles still wants to continue searching for the artifacts. If only Achilles had stopped right after the events of the Lisbon earthquake, maybe Shay would not have left the Assassins. I think a lot of people fail to answer this question: Will you continue to serve a cause knowing that you disagree with their goals, but can't do anything about it?

When Shay met Monro for the first time, he told Shay that they were actually helping the colonists, and yes, they actually were. The Templars were doing the Assassins' job. When Shay met Haytham, he told Haytham that the precursor artifacts were not to be tampered with therefore the Templars shifted their focus on stopping the Assassins from reaching the precursor sights. Shay joined the Templars, because he needed their help to stop the Assassins but he also joined them because he believed in their cause as well(after Shay joins the Templars, I believe the goals of Templars were told to Shay off-screen. Parts of Shay's life are corrupted within the Helix database). Shay was helping the colonists unlike the Assassins who weren't at the time as you can see from the game the living conditions were poor in several districts of New York which were controlled by the Assassins.

If the Templars did get their hands on the manuscript and the precursor box first and managed to decode it, they probably would have made a mistake by tampering with one as well, but I believe they would actually learn from it. But no, that was not the case, the Assassins had it and they were going to pursue other artifacts. Shay said specifically that the artifacts they were sent to acquire caused earthquakes(Shay connected the events of Lisbon with events of Haiti. Achilles should have noticed the signs)after tampering with them, but because he hardly ranks above the rest of the other main assassins they didn't believe him. Hope said no man can cause an earthquake, but what right do they have to judge him when they were not in Lisbon with him.

pirate1802
12-24-2014, 01:56 PM
Dunno man, his whole reason to turn templarish seemed very contrived to me, so does ubisoft's recent obsession with Templars and the sudden proliferation of 'good' Templars.

phoenix-force411
12-24-2014, 02:08 PM
Dunno man, his whole reason to turn templarish seemed very contrived to me, so does ubisoft's recent obsession with Templars and the sudden proliferation of 'good' Templars.

I don't think there was always a concept of "good and evil." It's more of a matter of who agrees with what and why. Good & evil are merely how the audience perceives both the Templars and the Assassins in a simplistic way. The Ezio Trilogy was catering to the Assassins in a very biased concept. Throughout Ezio's trilogy, we always see that all of the Templars Ezio has fought had evil intentions, and although we know the Templars seek peace too that element was very absent.

SixKeys
12-24-2014, 02:13 PM
I don't think there was always a concept of "good and evil." It's more of a matter of who agrees with what and why. Good & evil are merely how the audience perceives both the Templars and the Assassins in a simplistic way. The Ezio Trilogy was catering to the Assassins in a very biased concept. Throughout Ezio's trilogy, we always see that all of the Templars Ezio has fought had evil intentions, and although we know the Templars seek peace too that element was very absent.

There's really no flip-flopping to "oh, but the Templars have good intentions!" once you've made it canon that the Templars backed Hitler, Stalin and basically every other undeniably evil bastard in history.

TheJurre
12-24-2014, 04:41 PM
I'm sorry if this is the wrong topic for this question, but is it already known when Assassin's Creed: Rogue will be released for PC?

Shahkulu101
12-24-2014, 07:19 PM
There's really no flip-flopping to "oh, but the Templars have good intentions!" once you've made it canon that the Templars backed Hitler, Stalin and basically every other undeniably evil bastard in history.

Up until Germain ushered in the new age of Templar's that turned into the clearly nefarious Abstergo, we can argue about the merits of the Templar's intentions. Of course, that excludes the Borgia's or any other branch of Templar's that may have been 'evil'.

king-hailz
12-24-2014, 07:31 PM
Assassins creed 4 gives you more for what you get, better performance on the ps4. Much much better voice acting! Better gameplay, really good multi player.... although rogues story is very good. I have to give it to black flag overall!

STDlyMcStudpants
12-24-2014, 07:59 PM
Black Flag because it wasn't just a lifeless filler game

Perk89
12-24-2014, 08:22 PM
Yeah, I agree that Shay's conversion felt kind of forced and was nothing but the latest in yet another Ubisoft attempt of "Look! Good Templars! Moral greyness!"

i wish they'd drop that shtick.