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View Full Version : Assassin's Creed Unity is NOT a stealth game as promised



EmptyCrustacean
12-19-2014, 03:32 PM
If this game is a stealth game like Amancio whathisface says then why does it constantly force you into combat?

I went back to sequence 5 memory 3 and successfully got 100% sync but, my goodness, was it stupidly constructed.
I used the mission assistance opportunity - the one where you help out ordinary citizens so they can fight the extremists later on.
However, I was crouched and in cover behind a wall when the allies and extremists started fighting each other randomly. I thought 'good, I can sneak away while there's the distraction'. Now, correct me if I'm wrong isn't the entire point of crouch and cover your way of telling the game that you want to be stealth? So why is it that the game forced me out of my stealth and automatically made me engaged in combat? Thankfully, I escaped and managed to complete the mission with all of its objectives but its a matter of principle. The mission assistance opportunity should aid you, not create problems in of itself. The game forcing me into combat has happened a few times now with the 'kill the criminal' popups where it automatically just puts me in fight with the police and criminal even though I have not indicated to the game that I ever wanted to catch him.

Furthermore, I've noticed something about the mission constraints/mission objectives: most of them aren't designed to be completed the first time around. This is because they require equipment the player han't yet upgraded to complete the mission successfully - which is why you can go back to a time when Arno wouldn't have acquired the phantom blade, for instance, and use it on guards to stay in stealth mode. Even your armour and health will remain at what you have achieved to date. This is Ubisoft's way of forcing you to replay missions. Not good. Whereas with Black Flag, the game would downgrade you to the basics in both health and equipment because that's what Edward would have at that point in time regardless of whether or not the player has since mastered more skills.

Not only that but the mission constraints, themselves, in Unity are nonsensical. Mission constraints is something that I have always loved ever since it was first introduced in Brotherhood; it's become a staple throughout the franchise because it was always done so well. It decreased auto-fails whilst providing a challenge for completionists like myself. But the one thing I've always liked about them is, whilst they were challenging to achieve in the short term, they served you immensely in the long term. Sabotaging alarm bells, for instance, would be hard to do but ultimately it ensures that if you are spotted you won't have hoards of enemies to deal with. Using 'cherry bombs to lure guards' upon your escape when there's a window right beside you that will ensure a clean, swift exit is not. Why would I lure a guard to kill him when I can avoid that situation altogether? Wouldn't that have made more sense earlier in the mission?

Ubsioft need to do away with this creative team. They were the same people that brought us the lacklustre Revelations (worst AC game) and it is clear that they don't know what they're doing. I don't understand why Amancio whatsit continues to get a pass and is seen as some sort of God in this place. He is a smarmy politician and speaks like one in all of his interviews.

HeJePi
12-19-2014, 04:48 PM
If you really want a stealth game ... then I recommend you buy 'Thief' ... It is a real stealth game :D
For every single mission, the constraint by default is 'Do not get detected'

I do like 'additional mission constraints' that are logical and does not force you into doing something that is against your playing style ...
... or are near to impossible to achieve. AC4 have some that I hate the most !

Example: Sequence 9 Memory 2 / Double assassinate Cockram and Burgess ;)

EmptyCrustacean
12-19-2014, 04:50 PM
If you really want a stealth game ... then I recommend you buy 'Thief' ... It is a real stealth game :D
For every single mission, the constraint by default is 'Do not get detected'

I do like 'additional mission constraints' that are logical and does not force you into doing something that is against your playing style ...
... or are near to impossible to achieve. AC4 have some that I hate the most !

Example: Sequence 9 Memory 2 / Double assassinate Cockram and Burgess ;)

Oh my God, I think I remember that one. Nightmare! Can't remember how I managed that but by the time I did was ready to throw my controller at the telly!

Hans684
12-19-2014, 04:52 PM
Not surprised, combat is also a core pillar.

Megas_Doux
12-19-2014, 04:54 PM
Stealth in AC has always been weak, however I like the direction Unity had in that regard. The problem is that Ubisoft does not what to do with the franchise, they dont know whether improve the original core mechanics -as I believe they tried to do in Unity- or become a more action oriented parkour naval simulator as many gamers and some big youtubers like Angry Joe and Total biscuit want, for instance.....

Rafe Harwood
12-19-2014, 05:25 PM
Stealth in AC has always been weak, however I like the direction Unity had in that regard. The problem is that Ubisoft does not what to do with the franchise, they dont know whether improve the original core mechanics -as I believe they tried to do in Unity- or become a more action oriented parkour naval simulator as many gamers and some big youtubers like Angry Joe and Total biscuit want, for instance.....

Stealth may have been weak but I managed to play through almost every game using no weapons except for named killings.

It's my biggest fear for when I do actually get to play Unity. I don't like killing. I much prefer sneaking and doing things silently.

Megas_Doux
12-19-2014, 05:37 PM
Stealth may have been weak but I managed to play through almost every game using no weapons except for named killings.

It's my biggest fear for when I do actually get to play Unity. I don't like killing. I much prefer sneaking and doing things silently.

Unity is a harder game in terms of combat, not hard per se, but at least you can die....

And well, I managed to play stealthy every mission that was designed with such purpose.

xNick26
12-19-2014, 05:53 PM
The problem is that they are trying to make the game more stealthly and I do believe they are going in the right direction, it's just the problem arises when they try to have different combat styles for everyone like they do. You have a variety of different weapons and different gameplay styles and they are trying to reach all of them for people to enjoy. Not the greatest stealth game but if you are looking for a good one Styx masters of the shadows is a very good stealth game and it's been under looked by a lot of people. Me I thought thief was alright but Styx is very good and fun little stealth game and its on sale right now to for 18 bucks

Shahkulu101
12-19-2014, 06:41 PM
Combat doesn't seem forced more than any other games in the series. In fact I only remember one mission with Elise, when Arno tells Elise to run away while a bunch of guards were coming towards you. There were probably other instances but I can't really remember, must have only been a few times or less. Point is, having combat scenarios doesn't mean the title isn't a stealth game. Splinter Cell Blacklist does that too, and I'd hesitate to consider that anything but a stealth game.

Are you sure you weren't just detected instead of automatically forced. Guards are extra alert when in combat, which makes sense, but they're sort of telepathic which is annoying.

Agree about the OO's part. I had the exact same scenario with the windows one. Although, they aren't as bad as previous games - that really isn't Unity's problem exclusively.

Perhaps not everyone needed the phantom blade to stay in stealth mode, it was just more difficult without it. Could you explain further how the phantom blade was 'needed'? Was the objective 'use the phantom blade'? Memory's a bit fuzzy.

The fact of the matter is, Unity is a more stealth oriented title than any if its predecessors. Almost every mission can be completed stealthily, and the black box missions provide more approaches than ever before. The stealth though, is very unreliable due to wonky controls and navigation problems are a thorn in its side. The proof of concept is there - missions with open objectives, actually having to use stealth - but the mechanics that support them aren't up to snuff. As a result it isn't the stealth game I hoped it would be, but the vision is there - it's still a far better stealth game than any of the other AC titles, which tells you how bad they were in that department (but those games had good stories, better side missions, naval). Unity is a good template for future titles to follow in terms of design, hopefully future titles can execute the mechanics better.

I'm not actually sure it's the Revelations team. I believe most of them actually worked on ACIV with some of the Far Cry guys, if I recall correctly.

Hrafnagud72
12-19-2014, 07:20 PM
I don't think ACU can be classified as a stealth game. They introduced new methods that should improve stealth but it a broken system and removing some of the other stealth elements doesn't help. They took away hiding places like bushes, so there are few places to genuinely hide in. The cover concept is great, but it is broken. You cannot move around corners while in cover, forcing you to leave cover to turn a corner. The whistling allowed you to stay hidden to assassinate, now you can't whistle while in cover so you have to leave cover to assassinate. You are forced into more combat by not having many places to hide and having to leave cover to move around. The stealth in my opinion is very broken.

EmptyCrustacean
12-19-2014, 07:31 PM
Combat doesn't seem forced more than any other games in the series. In fact I only remember one mission with Elise, when Arno tells Elise to run away while a bunch of guards were coming towards you.

There are many missions within the game where combat is a must, particularly when you're defending a follower.


Are you sure you weren't just detected instead of automatically forced. Guards are extra alert when in combat, which makes sense, but they're sort of telepathic which is annoying.

No, I was in cover behind a wall that was so long I couldn't even peak around the sides. The fight was taking place beyond the wall in front of me. The game actually pulled me out of cover and equipped my weapon which got me detected. The guards then came around the wall to fight me.

This happens all the time during the 'kill the criminal' pop-ups - I could be randomly walking when a criminal kills the citizen and then the game will pull out my weapon and engage in a fight with the police - even though I never started chasing the criminal.


Agree about the OO's part. I had the exact same scenario with the windows one. Although, they aren't as bad as previous games - that really isn't Unity's problem exclusively.

I think they nailed it in previous games, personally, especially Brotherhood.


Perhaps not everyone needed the phantom blade to stay in stealth mode, it was just more difficult without it. Could you explain further how the phantom blade was 'needed'? Was the objective 'use the phantom blade'? Memory's a bit fuzzy.

For instance, the 'do not get into open conflict' early on in the game when Arno is sneaking out of the party. I would be interested to know how anybody accomplished that without the use of long ranged weapons especially as the cover mechanic was so wonky and you wouldn't have the 'double assassination' skill at the time.

Also, another example of the nonsensical nature of the constraints: there is the Arkham Asylum-esque mission where you have to assassinate that guy who wears make-up. Before I upgraded my long range holster I could only equip 5 phantom blades and I used them on the guards during the first half of the mission. Who wouldn't? It's stealthier and enables me not to leave my position. Then the OO comes up on the second half of the mission saying that I need to do 3 phantom blade kills. I was livid that the game didn't notify me of this constraint earlier or at least give me some way of obtaining more phantom blades like it would have done in previous games should you face this situation. Looting bodies didn't seem to help since; it would just give me equipment I already had. When I revisited the mission I had more than enough phantom blades but deliberately refrained from using them on the first half of the mission which inevitably lead to some combat with one or two guards but nothing too heavy.


The fact of the matter is, Unity is a more stealth oriented title than any if its predecessors.

It is. But it is also more combat orientated than any of its predecessors and that's where the problems arise. This is a game that encourages you to upgrade combat wth armour, weapons and skill points whilst acting as if combat is a fail state. You can't give player the option of creating a 'unique play style' then turn around and say that play style is a fail state.


I'm not actually sure it's the Revelations team. I believe most of them actually worked on ACIV with some of the Far Cry guys, if I recall correctly.

No, this is definitely the same team that did Revelations, ACIII and AC1.

EmptyCrustacean
12-19-2014, 07:33 PM
I don't think ACU can be classified as a stealth game. They introduced new methods that should improve stealth but it a broken system and removing some of the other stealth elements doesn't help. They took away hiding places like bushes, so there are few places to genuinely hide in. The cover concept is great, but it is broken. You cannot move around corners while in cover, forcing you to leave cover to turn a corner. The whistling allowed you to stay hidden to assassinate, now you can't whistle while in cover so you have to leave cover to assassinate. You are forced into more combat by not having many places to hide and having to leave cover to move around. The stealth in my opinion is very broken.

Which is strange considering how good Watch Dogs cover system was but I suspect that had a different dev team.

Hrafnagud72
12-19-2014, 07:42 PM
Which is strange considering how good Watch Dogs cover system was but I suspect that had a different dev team.

Splinter cell also had a great stealth system. So it baffles me they screwed up AC so much.

Fatal-Feit
12-19-2014, 08:13 PM
I think they nailed it in previous games, personally, especially Brotherhood.

Brotherhood is one of the most combat oriented AC and yet you're complaining about Unity.


It is. But it is also more combat orientated than any of its predecessors and that's where the problems arise. This is a game that encourages you to upgrade combat wth armour, weapons and skill points whilst acting as if combat is a fail state. You can't give player the option of creating a 'unique play style' then turn around and say that play style is a fail state.

Actually, the ACs that places players in combat the most would be Brotherhood and 3. Unity has about, what, 3-4 parts? The tutorial with Hugo and his brother, protecting Elise, defending Napoleon, and the bar fight. I mean, have you even played Brotherhood? The entire beginning had you in combat in almost every scenario, from the escape in Rome to the attack on Monteriggioni. If we were to sit down and count how many combat scenarios are present in each game, Unity will be in the top 3 least.


No, this is definitely the same team that did Revelations, ACIII and AC1.

Actually, it's the team that did Brotherhood. They weren't satisfied with the MP in Brotherhood so they split off and worked on Unity. Alex Amancio directed it after his work on AC:R.

ze_topazio
12-19-2014, 08:15 PM
Wasn't the Revelations team that worked on AC4?

Shahkulu101
12-19-2014, 08:17 PM
Wasn't the Revelations team that worked on AC4?

That's what I said. I'm sure that's why Darby worked on both Revelations and AC4.

EmptyCrustacean
12-19-2014, 08:58 PM
Brotherhood is one of the most combat oriented AC and yet you're complaining about Unity.

Don't twist it. What you quoted was specifically about MISSION CONSTRAINTS, not Brotherhood as a stealth orientated game - which it's not.

Furthermore, on the few occasions that Brotherhood did stealth, it did stealth. The stealth construction in missions was excellent. The combat and stealth never cancelled each other out. There are entire missions where the constraint is not to be detected and you have all the resources at your disposal to accomplish this whether its the recruits, long range weapons or just good old fashioned strategy.


Actually, the ACs that places players in combat the most would be Brotherhood and 3. Unity has about, what, 3-4 parts? The tutorial with Hugo and his brother, protecting Elise, defending Napoleon, and the bar fight. I mean, have you even played Brotherhood? The entire beginning had you in combat in almost every scenario, from the escape in Rome to the attack on Monteriggioni. If we were to sit down and count how many combat scenarios are present in each game, Unity will be in the top 3 least.

Again, you've missed mine and other people's point entirely. Nobody said Brotherhood was a stealth game. I said it had excellent mission constraints that provided both challenge and assistance. That is where Unity lacks in comparison to Brotherhood. Also, my issue with Unity isn't that it's not a stealth game... if it had been marketed as such. My issue is that its CONFLICTED in what it wants to be and, as a result, the stealth is poor. They made the combat difficult to encourage stealth, great, but then they force you into combat and offer combat upgrades... does that make sense? No. Don't call yourself a stealth game when combat is still such a major pillar.


Actually, it's the team that did Brotherhood. They weren't satisfied with the MP in Brotherhood so they split off and worked on Unity. Alex Amancio directed it after his work on AC:R.

Proof? Because I've seen the interviews and they said it was the same team that did ACI, ACIII and Revelations. Until you provide proof otherwise I'd say your BSing me to prove a point.

Megas_Doux
12-19-2014, 09:06 PM
Constraints aside, which I have NEVER cared about, I have been able to do every mission that was designed with stealth in mind, stealthy.......

Fatal-Feit
12-19-2014, 09:14 PM
Also, my issue with Unity isn't that it's not a stealth game... if it had been marketed as such. My issue is that its CONFLICTED in what it wants to be and, as a result, the stealth is poor. They made the combat difficult to encourage stealth, great, but then they force you into combat and offer combat upgrades... does that make sense? No. Don't call yourself a stealth game when combat is still such a major pillar.

A stealth game may also have an emphasis on combat. A video game can have more than one genre. Unity is also an open world, action adventure.


Proof? Because I've seen the interviews and they said it was the same team that did ACI, ACIII and Revelations. Until you provide proof otherwise I'd say your BSing me to prove a point.

This should be common knowledge considering all the interviews, but sure.

I don't like digging through old videos, but whatever. Here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRsF_6b_7BE

I'm not going to dig for the interview with Alex Amancio since it's obvious he's the creative director.

EmptyCrustacean
12-19-2014, 10:01 PM
A stealth game may also have an emphasis on combat. A video game can have more than one genre. Unity is also an open world, action adventure.

No one is saying it can't but in Unity these two pillars are at war with each other throughout. Whereas in previous game they worked side by side.


This should be common knowledge considering all the interviews, but sure.

I don't like digging through old videos, but whatever. Here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRsF_6b_7BE

Well, thanks. Still, it's a major regression since Brotherhood and perhaps this team no longer know what they're doing. They had their time.

Megas_Doux
12-19-2014, 10:07 PM
I really dont get it, Unity is the most "stealth" oriented game in the franchise........

EmptyCrustacean
12-19-2014, 10:09 PM
I really dont get it, Unity is the most "stealth" oriented game in the franchise........

Somebody else said this earlier on in the thread and I addressed it. Please read, thanks.

Namikaze_17
12-19-2014, 10:18 PM
I really dont get it, Unity is the most "stealth" oriented game in the franchise........

This.

And it STILL isn't enough. :rolleyes:

Hans684
12-19-2014, 10:23 PM
This.

And it STILL isn't enough. :rolleyes:

It will never be enough :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
12-19-2014, 10:29 PM
It will never be enough :rolleyes:

We strive for what does not exist... :rolleyes:

Altair1789
12-19-2014, 11:21 PM
Guard sees me, next thing I know, guards from half way across Paris are running at me. No really though, guards from 2 floors down or up start to run to me even when a guard just sees me

This is to be expected when they tell you "there's a modern day" and believe they're being honest


We strive for what does not exist... :rolleyes:

Still we have made a difference :rolleyes:

Hans684
12-19-2014, 11:28 PM
Still we have made a difference :rolleyes:

And we will do so again :rolleyes:

STDlyMcStudpants
12-20-2014, 01:01 AM
LOL it is a stealth game and I hate that about it

Namikaze_17
12-20-2014, 01:38 AM
And we will do so again :rolleyes:


I did not understand... :rolleyes:

WendysBrioche
12-20-2014, 04:14 AM
Meh I have to disagree. Every Central Assassination Mission offered a special stealthy method to assassinate the targert. Sivert's Confessional Kill, Roi de Thune's ledge kill, that one guy you poisoned with wine, was hard to do without getting caught but it was there, pretending to be a prisoner to walk up to la touché and assassinate him, whats her face you were supposed to blend in with the crowd, and final boss had multiple stealth approaches to assassinate, from behind, atop etc. Most stealth options I've seen in an assassin's yet.

LoyalACFan
12-20-2014, 09:58 AM
It is a stealth game, the only problem is that it's STILL leagues behind other, proper stealth games in terms of mechanics despite Unity being a gigantic step in the right direction. It's a good thing I love AC for its historical settings and stories (most of them anyway) because its mechanics really are pretty paper-thin.

Also, for whoever was talking about the Burgess and Cockram double kill being hard to pull off... two pistol quickfires count as a "double assassination". Equip decent pistols and just shoot them both instead of waiting interminably for them to position themselves just right. Ba-bam. Countering when they both attack simultaneously works too, but those are pretty rare.

HeJePi
12-20-2014, 01:35 PM
Also, for whoever was talking about the Burgess and Cockram double kill being hard to pull off... two pistol quickfires count as a "double assassination". Equip decent pistols and just shoot them both instead of waiting interminably for them to position themselves just right. Ba-bam. Countering when they both attack simultaneously works too, but those are pretty rare.
Thanks for the tip !

Anyway today I had to face a really annoying bug in ACU. I was trying to do a 'perfect heist' on Tithing Templars ... avoid any kind of detection (yellow marker) ... after killing most of the Templars around, I finally reach the chest ... "Cannot interact while there is a conflict nearby" ... huh ?

So I go back, kill a few more ... very stealthy ... and come back to the chest. Same annoying message ... I didn't realize that the mini-map was still flashing yellow ... and nothing I can do to make it come back to normal ... I nearly smashed my controller on the floor out of frustration.

I pushed the 'PS' button and 'Close application' and leave my PS4 to rest.

Tomorrow I buy Shadow of Mordor :D