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RA503
12-19-2014, 12:05 AM
Hi people,I don't know if I is the only one that perceive it but,in unity you perceive some adam and eve symbolism in elise and arno ?

The girl trick the boy to steal a apple and something bad rappens because of it (death of arno's father),you think that it is intentional ? something to catch fans atention like the glyph in bastille (that ends without explanation).

this tread serves to explore another criptic and unexplained things in unity's plot.

SixKeys
12-19-2014, 01:44 AM
I doubt it's intentional but it's an interesting way to read the story. :)

wvstolzing
12-19-2014, 01:52 AM
Not sure if it works with children....

SixKeys
12-19-2014, 02:05 AM
Not sure if it works with children....

Adam and Eve were essentially children before they were seduced by the apple. We don't know how old they were physically before the exile from Paradise, they could have been 13 for all we know. Would fit the symbolism too, since sexual awareness starts to awaken in the pre-teen years.

Shahkulu101
12-19-2014, 05:03 AM
Speaking of symbolism in Unity what does the whole pocket watch motif mean?

Is Arno just reflecting on his father or does it go deeper than that?

Cactiii
12-19-2014, 05:35 AM
Speaking of symbolism in Unity what does the whole pocket watch motif mean?

Is Arno just reflecting on his father or does it go deeper than that?

Th pocketwatch motif is sort of a reflection of Arno's motivations. At the very end, we see Arno looking at his pocketwatch, now fixed, because his goal has been completed. He's lost everyone he's ever loved but he's completed his goal of redemption by killing everyone involved in de la Serre's death and no longer 'needs' Elise. He first breaks it when Arno's father dies, and at every point until the end it's broken, whenever we see Arno look at it. When he's locked in the Bastille, the pocketwatch acts as his motivation to be mentored by Bellec. At one point, when Arno fails at killing Germain because he valued Elise so much, he thinks that he's lost everything- the Assassin order, Germain, even Elise herself. That's why, in the next scene, we see Arno as a wreck, having lost the pocketwatch and everything else that kept him going. Ultimately, he's unable to continue despite his best efforts until Elise magically appears with his watch, and after that we see him back in action, newly motivated by the reapperance of Elise, Germain and his watch. After Germain and Elise's death, there's a flash forwards as we see an epilogue where Arno is redeemed and matured. The pocketwatch is repaired and Arno no longer needs to kill the templars.

Essentially, the whole story isn't about templars and assassins- it's the story of a man who can't seem to get his damn watch fixed.

Shahkulu101
12-19-2014, 05:38 AM
Interesting observations cheers, I didn't realize it was broken in every scene.

STDlyMcStudpants
12-19-2014, 07:49 AM
Wow - Mind BLOWN I didnt even realize it! 100% intentional!
I did think it was a funny way to start the game, im stealing this apple just cause a cute little girl tells me to?
PSH

HDinHB
12-19-2014, 09:14 AM
Very astute observation, OP. And I think it was intentional. Unity was supposed to be about going back to the origins of the series, and we know from The Truth video that the origin began with Adam and Eve stealing the Apple of Eden.

I hadn't noticed all the connections with the watch that Cactiii pointed out; that's clever, too.

Kudos to the writers for that. Now, if only there had been more story to the story.

crusader_prophet
12-19-2014, 09:24 AM
Very astute observation, OP. And I think it was intentional. Unity was supposed to be about going back to the origins of the series, and we know from The Truth video that the origin began with Adam and Eve stealing the Apple of Eden.

I hadn't noticed all the connections with the watch that Cactiii pointed out; that's clever, too.

Kudos to the writers for that. Now, if only there had been more story to the story.

There is story, there is depth, there is fresh fire in the series, everything that went wrong with Unity comes down to poor EXECUTION. That is why I always keep saying that this could have been a masterpiece!

HDinHB
12-19-2014, 09:29 AM
It could have been, but it wasn't. There was a story, but I don't agree it was a deep or satisfying story. But it could have been...

Aphex_Tim
12-19-2014, 09:49 AM
I just realized: This makes Elise indirectly responsible for the death of Arno's father, just as Arno was indirectly responsible for the death of Elise's father.

HDinHB
12-19-2014, 10:06 AM
I just realized: This makes Elise indirectly responsible for the death of Arno's father, just as Arno was indirectly responsible for the death of Elise's father.

I just realized...we know who killed Elise's father to like six degrees of separation, but we don't know who killed Arno's father...or did I miss that part? Anyway, whoever killed a (presumably) skilled Assassin in broad daylight in an open space with no witnesses is enough of a badass that an eight year old French boy wouldn't have slowed him down. All Elise did was keep Arno from witnessing it.


Well crap.

I googled "who killed arno's father" to see if I missed something in Unity.

I should not have done that.

Well, I guess I didn't miss something in Unity.

Crap.

crusader_prophet
12-19-2014, 11:25 AM
I just realized...we know who killed Elise's father to like six degrees of separation, but we don't know who killed Arno's father...or did I miss that part? Anyway, whoever killed a (presumably) skilled Assassin in broad daylight in an open space with no witnesses is enough of a badass that an eight year old French boy wouldn't have slowed him down. All Elise did was keep Arno from witnessing it.


Well crap.

I googled "who killed arno's father" to see if I missed something in Unity.

I should not have done that.

Well, I guess I didn't miss something in Unity.

Crap.

LOL...yep!

lothario-da-be
12-19-2014, 12:47 PM
Poor HDinHB...
And how was Elise indirectly responsible for Arno's father's death? How did she influence what happend in any way?

LoyalACFan
12-19-2014, 02:33 PM
Poor HDinHB...
And how was Elise indirectly responsible for Arno's father's death? How did she influence what happend in any way?

She lured Arno away from where he was supposed to be waiting for his father. Had Arno been there waiting like a good boy, instead of making his dad wait around, they would have left on time and Shay would have missed his window to strike. Although I must say, even though she indirectly contributed to the circumstance of his death, I'm pretty sure Shay would have just killed him on the way out instead of in the palace. I wouldn't say she's the reason he's dead, like Arno is the reason Francois De La Serre died.

Side note- when I first played this scene, I actually theorized that Mr. De La Serre had ordered the hit on Dorian Senior, and he had told Elise to draw Arno away so he wouldn't have to see his father being killed.

VestigialLlama4
12-19-2014, 04:31 PM
Hi people,I don't know if I is the only one that perceive it but,in unity you perceive some adam and eve symbolism in elise and arno ?

The girl trick the boy to steal a apple and something bad rappens because of it (death of arno's father),you think that it is intentional ? something to catch fans atention like the glyph in bastille (that ends without explanation).

this tread serves to explore another criptic and unexplained things in unity's plot.

Symbolism only matters if it leads to something concrete. That's how it works in the best poetry and drama. Or a game like Bioshock Infinite where baptism and religious symbology has this amazing force and pay-off at the end. Or in BLACK FLAG where Aesop's Fable of "the eagle and the jackdaw" raises Edward's story to true significance in a clear, subtle and meaningful manner.

The symbolism of Adam and Eve is that of being cast out of Paradise, in UNITY, that resonates on the level of Arno and Elise having their privileged spoilt upbringing taken away from them by the Revolution which I suppose is how nobility/rich a--holes must have felt at the time of the Revolution. I suppose their idea of Unity, is also a Paradise that gets soured by evil serpents in both factions and both of them try and regain that. But more than that, I don't think it leads to anything profound. It also retains the sexism of the fable in that Elise/Eve is the one who leads the moronic Arno/Adam into trouble and Arno fails to restrain her single-minded yearning for revenge.

So not very profound I am afraid.

The symbolism is more profound in ROGUE where obviously Shay is a Lucifer-esque figure who decides its better to reign in hell.

SixKeys
12-19-2014, 07:38 PM
Symbolism only matters if it leads to something concrete. That's how it works in the best poetry and drama. Or a game like Bioshock Infinite where baptism and religious symbology has this amazing force and pay-off at the end. Or in BLACK FLAG where Aesop's Fable of "the eagle and the jackdaw" raises Edward's story to true significance in a clear, subtle and meaningful manner.

The symbolism of Adam and Eve is that of being cast out of Paradise, in UNITY, that resonates on the level of Arno and Elise having their privileged spoilt upbringing taken away from them by the Revolution which I suppose is how nobility/rich a--holes must have felt at the time of the Revolution. I suppose their idea of Unity, is also a Paradise that gets soured by evil serpents in both factions and both of them try and regain that. But more than that, I don't think it leads to anything profound. It also retains the sexism of the fable in that Elise/Eve is the one who leads the moronic Arno/Adam into trouble and Arno fails to restrain her single-minded yearning for revenge.

So not very profound I am afraid.

The symbolism is more profound in ROGUE where obviously Shay is a Lucifer-esque figure who decides its better to reign in hell.

I disagree that symbolism is meaningless unless it leads to something concrete. Symbolism can be unintentional yet can still lead to readers/viewers/players into finding their own interpretations in the artwork. Like how J.R.R. Tolkien insisted that there were no intentional parallels to WW1 in Lord of the Rings, yet people found new ways to read the story by reading Saruman and the destruction of nature as an analogy for the way industrialization changed warfare forever. Unity's story is still very new, but as more people find their way into it, I'm sure we'll be seeing more interpretations like this. I already found the pocket watch stuff very interesting, I never noticed that while playing but it makes Arno a deeper character. It seems the writing in Unity shined in the little details but didn't reach into the overall narrative.

VestigialLlama4
12-19-2014, 09:01 PM
I disagree that symbolism is meaningless unless it leads to something concrete. Symbolism can be unintentional yet can still lead to readers/viewers/players into finding their own interpretations in the artwork. Like how J.R.R. Tolkien insisted that there were no intentional parallels to WW1 in Lord of the Rings, yet people found new ways to read the story by reading Saruman and the destruction of nature as an analogy for the way industrialization changed warfare forever.

Yeah, but that's because it has a comprehensive scope, you know people fighting a war, returning home finding a landscape changed and being unable to fit back into peace. There is a concrete realization which allows for that reading. In UNITY, Arno and Elise don't really stand for anything other than themselves, they don't stand for anything meaningful vis-a-vis history and the Assassin-Templar conflict is too thin to allow it have anything near the same level of resonance.

Like with AC3, there is this multi-layered rich symbolism, in the Oedipal Conflict. It's America revolting against England, the parent country. You have Connor with his three father figures - Achilles, Haytham and Washington. Connor himself is this hybrid figure - half Mohawk, half English, part Privateer, part Frontiersman, Part Assassin. On one hand he represents the past, the doomed Native American experience but he's also an idealized embodiment of the 21st Century multi-cultural American(which is what the Homestead is), he represents the America of the Future measured against the hypocritical America of the Revolution. His relationship with Washington doesn't make sense literally or narratively but it works symbolically, say, a modern liberal, young American's feelings towards the Founding Father and his hypocritical actions which nonetheless provide America its inheritance. And Haytham of course is the English Lord, liberally supporting the Revolution but only so he can make it another England with freedom given patronizingly with no changes in social equation. Achilles represents a father figure who has already failed and is pretty unappealing compared to Haytham and Washington, being that he's marginal and powerless, as well as dishonored, but whose quiet sacrifice Connor comes to appreciate. It pays off when Connor commits patricide, and then in the subtle final moment where he buries the Grand Key in Connor Davenport's grave, that wonderful animation where Connor looks at his name on the tombstone and doesn't say anything but you know he's basically burying a part of himself in that grave.

I mean even with Ezio's games, you have the symbolism of the family. The opening sequence of AC2 where Ezio has his family life ruined forever and has to become the "man of the house" which he never expected to be (as the second son with a young father and elder brother). And the Assassins is his second family, it ties into everything, like the fact that he and Leonardo become closer after his brother's death, because obviously he wants that fraternal connection, the fact that he and Claudia don't get on well until later, since he never expected to be as close to her, seeing her as an annoying sister rather than only surviving sibling. And of course Darby McDevitt said that he modelled Yusuf on Federico Auditore and the opening of Revelations, with those challenges, and races to the tower being an echo of the start of AC2. That's what makes him such a warm, empathetic guy and why the structure comes in so strongly.


Unity's story is still very new, but as more people find their way into it, I'm sure we'll be seeing more interpretations like this. I already found the pocket watch stuff very interesting, I never noticed that while playing but it makes Arno a deeper character.

I don't know, I saw it as a simple thing about Daddy Issues. I mean it's like Ezio and Petruccio's Feathers. The pocketwatch doesn't really work on gameplay terms, its there in the cutscenes and ultimately there's no real mystery to Charles Dorian.