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Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 08:12 AM
Sorry if it's not allowed, feel free to close my thread if it is, but Reddit user McHell_666 (http://www.reddit.com/user/McHell_666) made some interesting points about Connor.

HEADLINE - [AC3 Spoilers] Connor's unexpected role in Desmond's story (also where his robes come from)

THE ORIGIN OF CONNOR'S ROBES


I'll get right into it, but I'll start with his attire first since this is the shorter bit of speculation/headcanon I'll be presenting in this post. Connor's robes are some of my favorites though I know some peeps here think they look anachronistic. I think they look fine though, like an amalgam of an officer's coat and classic Assassin robes, they look appropriate out in the frontier or at a fort. However there is something off about them. Where do they come from?
On my first playthrough I thought they belonged to Achilles but that's proven incorrect when you later unlock his actual, personal robes. And AC:Ro shows us they clearly don't belong to any of the other Assassins of his time. So why would a man who's sworn off the Assassins and their cause keep a set of robes under his home for years? Certainly not in the hopes some native boy will come along and make good use of them. It's actually quite simple, they were meant for Connor Davenport. It seems the old man gave RatonhnhakÚ:ton more than just his son's name, he gave him his place in the Brotherhood... AND IN HIS HEART sob

OKAY, NOW CONNOR'S UNEXPECTED ROLE IN DESMOND'S STORY


"You are important child. In more ways than you will ever know.."
These are the words spoken by Juno to Connor and by the end of AC3 you probably think you know what she meant. After all by then you know he rebuilt the Brotherhood in Colonial America, hid the Key for Desmond to find centuries later, and went on to contribute to his lineage.
Connor however had one more contribution to make, implied by the series's lore, and probably the most important. It's my personal bit of headcanon that throughout the first five installments of the AC franchise, Desmond is in fact under the influence of the bleeding effect in much the same way Daniel Cross was. Cross could literally hear the voices of his ancestors, channel their personalities, and speak and act as they would (not at will, obviously). The same is true for Desmond though to a much, much milder extent.
Remember the beginning of AC2? As Desmond enters the hideout, Lucy offers him an opportunity to join the Assassin's fight. And Desmond accepts. Immediately. This is not something the Desmond of AC1 would've done. That Desmond was just an average guy who wanted to live an average life. So what changed? Well, at the end of AC1 Altair receives a call to action (as Mentor of the Order) so it makes sense that when Desmond receives a similar call to action he does exactly as Altair would do. Of course the premise of AC2 is that Desmond must be exposed to the memories of Ezio in order to pick up his skills and yet again we see that Mr. Miles picks up a little more than just parkour or eagle vision, after all what's one of the first things he does when he exits the animus? He flirts with Lucy. Exactly as Ezio would do ( ͡░ ͜ʖ ͡░)
So we're at the end of AC3 and Desmond, standing before the pedestal, is faced with an impossible choice: do as Minerva asks and keep Juno imprisoned at the cost of billions of lives or protect the world from the solar flare and release her in the process. After listening to them both Desmond takes a moment, and then proceeds to sacrifice himself to save those billions in the hopes that they'll be able to stop Juno's plans. Exactly as Connor would've done.
The fact that Minerva's choice was presented at all shows that it may well have been in Desmond's character to let those people burn to protect humanity from Juno, and in an alternate universe he would have done just that...if it wasn't for Connor. If Connor had been anything less than who he was Desmond may have never placed his hand on that pedestal. Just as with Cross, there was a very real (however faint) part of Connor guiding Desmond to do what he had to do (and arguably justifying his life's work).
Unfortunately, here's where that takes a turn for the sinister. That's exactly why Juno chose Connor as the Guardian, why she appealed to Desmond's morality that day in the Grand Temple. After all, she doesn't care all that much for humans anyways, thinks us little more than animals. It was a Batman gambit thousands of years in the making.

TL;DR: CONNOR WAS DESMOND'S JIMINY CRICKET, JUNO IS A CRAFTY (censored) ಠ_ಠ

Many of us considers Connor's journey in AC:3 to be in vain, but after reading this, I've got to disagree. How about you guys? Discuss!

Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 08:20 AM
The title should include ''and Desmond''. Oh well.

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 08:23 AM
I remember saying something like this in our chat on Skype.

But I agree.

It is possible Connor's journey and guidance influenced Desmond's decision.

As it turns out, Connor's sarcifices and hard work paid off.

Damnit Fatal! Now I like Connor even more. :rolleyes:

souNdwAve89
12-18-2014, 08:29 AM
I read it this morning, and I liked it. I agree with the other member on whether the writers did this on purpose or not, lol.

wvstolzing
12-18-2014, 08:49 AM
It definitely makes sense -- though, again, I think this is a case of a fan theory being a lot more interesting & subtle compared to what the writers were trying to do. I doubt that this was their intention.

True_Assassin92
12-18-2014, 09:00 AM
So we can conclude that there's nothing left for Connor ;) . Juno said he'd be important again and if you follow the logic above, he did so by influencing the choice of desmond.

Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 09:31 AM
I read it this morning, and I liked it. I agree with the other member on whether the writers did this on purpose or not, lol.


It definitely makes sense -- though, again, I think this is a case of a fan theory being a lot more interesting & subtle compared to what the writers were trying to do. I doubt that this was their intention.

If u guys r referring to whether Desmond's decision was affected by Connor or not, it canonically was, according to one of Desmond's recordings in AC:IV. (can't find it for some reason)

But dat robe doe. Very emotional.

HypeR.tgL
12-18-2014, 10:15 AM
What fatal said, I remember hearing the recording, it touched me :)



Subject 17 - memo 4


I think spending all this time in Connor's memories has made me anxious. Mean his story is painful in so many ways. Still he never lost hope, even when his faith in others eroded. I can only believe what we are doing is the right thing, that I can stop this disaster.. I know this..

king-hailz
12-18-2014, 11:27 AM
I don't know what to say... I think your spot on. It doesn't really make me change my mind but also makes me hate juno more... she did this on purpose! OMG!

lucygp
12-18-2014, 11:59 AM
Juno said he'd be important again and if you follow the logic above, he did so by influencing













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Pr0metheus 1962
12-18-2014, 12:43 PM
What is it with you guys and Connor? Virtually no one likes the guy except maybe angst-ridden teens who identify with his anger. His story is over: you're gonna have to deal with that fact sometime.

Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 12:57 PM
^ I thought having someone on an ignore list would mean he can't see or post on my own threads. What the flippity flop.

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 01:29 PM
What is it with you guys and Connor? Virtually no one likes the guy except maybe angst-ridden teens who identify with his anger. His story is over: you're gonna have to deal with that fact sometime.

Wasn't it you that said to someone that if you(they) didn't like a subject, don't click on it? :rolleyes:

A bit hypocritical are we?

Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 01:36 PM
Wasn't it you that said to someone that if you(they) didn't like a subject, don't click on it? :rolleyes:

A bit hypocritical are we?

Don't feed the troll. He's a walking contradiction, but won't ever accept it.

If the majority of people said falling off a cliff was cool, he would do it and spend the rest of his life hating on people who're afraid of heights if he survive.

Anyway, let's get back onto the topic. :p

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 01:41 PM
Don't feed the troll. He's a walking contradiction, but won't ever accept it.

If the majority of people said falling off a cliff was cool, he would do it and spend the rest of his life hating on people who're afraid of heights if he survive.

Anyway, let's get back onto the topic. :p

Yeah, I guess you're right friend. ^^

SpiritOfNevaeh
12-18-2014, 03:40 PM
Very interesting post dude.

Makes a lot of sense.

This is why I hated Juno more and I loved Connor so much <3

I still have faith we'll see him again, one way or another.

wvstolzing
12-18-2014, 04:02 PM
What fatal said, I remember hearing the recording, it touched me :)
Subject 17 - memo 4
I think spending all this time in Connor's memories has made me anxious. Mean his story is painful in so many ways. Still he never lost hope, even when his faith in others eroded. I can only believe what we are doing is the right thing, that I can stop this disaster.. I know this..


I had forgotten about this.
... which just goes to show that AC3 should already have *shown* us, somehow, that this is what Desmond feels about Connor. Once again, it's told inside a tiny unlockable snippet in the *following game*.

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 04:08 PM
I had forgotten about this.
... which just goes to show that AC3 should already have *shown* us, somehow, that this is what Desmond feels about Connor. Once again, it's told inside a tiny unlockable snippet in the *following game*.

Yeah, that was another shot to the foot.

Tbh, I always figured Connor's story/Ideals influenced Desmond's decision. That's why I get mad when people say he wasn't as important as Alta´r or Ezio.

If anyone was truly unimportant, it's Arno.

Most pointless story yet...and no, that wasn't to make Connor look good/better.

Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 04:15 PM
Altair influenced Desmond's responsibility, Ezio provided the skills, and Connor gave Desmond hope.

Assassin_M
12-18-2014, 04:54 PM
Other than Connor's robes, I thought everything else was fairly obvious. I mean, the entirety of AC III's modern was supposed to be a mirror to the historical portion. The daddy issues, the missions..etc. Some people are saying they doubt that this is what the writers intended? Lolno, it's been there ever since Brotherhood. Sometimes I wonder if people outside of these forums actually pay attention to the story and lore.

GunnerGalactico
12-18-2014, 06:21 PM
That was a bit obvious. Somehow I kinda knew that it was originally Connor Davenport's robe. It wouldn't just be lying there ready made. Everything else was self-explanatory.

wvstolzing
12-18-2014, 08:07 PM
The robes might have been self-evident (they were); but Desmond's relationship to Raton wasn't.

As to 'daddy issues' -- well, both characters have 'daddy issues', but they're so radically different, there's hardly a sensible analogy to be made.

Mr.Black24
12-18-2014, 09:27 PM
Technically, both of Altair's, Ezio's, and Connor's suffering lead to the heroic efforts of Desmond giving his life for the world and all life within it. Altair's struggle to find the meaning of the war and the Creed, Ezio's fight for the truth of his place here on earth, and Connor's war for keeping the people of the lands safe, but also indirectly and ironically giving the key to actually KEEPING THE WHOLE WORLD SAFE. All their trials finally culminated to a greater meaning....

They would be extremely proud of Desmond!

aL_____eX
12-18-2014, 09:36 PM
I love how fans always fix the plot holes that story writers leave... Honestly I was so unsatisfied after playing the end of the 'real AC saga' which I think was supposed to be AC2-ACIII. So many left opportunities and they executed everything so bad. But then people started talking about things the writers didn't even want to implement (at least that's what I think) and how everything should and could tie together. One of the things I really really love about fandom and fanfics and all that stuff. It sometimes gives you satisfaction you didn't get from the original thing.

Altair1789
12-18-2014, 09:36 PM
What about when Juno said "you have made a difference, and you will do so again"? C'mon Ubi, don't just drop it like that

Assassin_M
12-18-2014, 09:39 PM
What about when Juno said "you have made a difference, and you will do so again"? C'mon Ubi, don't just drop it like that
That was referring to how he'll be helping Desmond open the inner door to the eye. I really don't think that was for anything else. Besides, even if, we don't need a sequel. He can still have done a lot of difference, we just don't see it.

aL_____eX
12-18-2014, 09:41 PM
What about when Juno said "you have made a difference, and you will do so again"? C'mon Ubi, don't just drop it like that
Are you talking about the scene when she says that to Connor? I think that's what some of the discussion going on here is about. Connor made a difference in his time period by 'sacrificing himself for the greater good' and trying to do more for other people than himself. And since Desmond experienced all those memories of Connor, Connor somehow influenced Desmond's actions through the centuries. So in the end Juno won by 'manipulating' (really not the right word) Connor and therefore Desmond.

Megas_Doux
12-18-2014, 09:45 PM
What about when Juno said "you have made a difference, and you will do so again"? C'mon Ubi, don't just drop it like that

Connor did not have a good reception, even Darby said that "he was a pretty polarizing character among the fandom". And now considering Unity┤s release, Watch Dogs downgrade, the "no women arc" and the whole incompetence of Ubi┤s PR department, the least they need is another rage in the form of having a hated character returning.

Personally, I would not mind a short movie or a comic, may be a platforming game ala Chronicles or a memory like the The Tragedy of Jacques de Molay for instance. But I just cannot bare ANOTHER game set in colonial North America, for I find it the DULLEST setting possible for this franchise.

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 09:55 PM
Personally, I would not mind a short movie or a comic, may be a platforming game ala Chronicles or a memory like the The Tragedy of Jacques de Molay for instance.

This.

Assassin_M
12-18-2014, 10:04 PM
Connor did not have a good reception, even Darby said that "he was a pretty polarizing character among the fandom".
Polarizing = Hated

All signs point to him being pretty popular. Not as popular as other Assassins. He had a lot of people who didn't like him. It's most likely 60/40. Guy won an award, how many times do I have to mention this?

Megas_Doux
12-18-2014, 10:23 PM
Polarizing = Hated

All signs point to him being pretty popular. Not as popular as other Assassins. He had a lot of people who didn't like him. It's most likely 60/40. Guy won an award, how many times do I have to mention this?

Does he have fans? Yes.
Does he have haters? Yes.

As I said, the least Ubi needs is another "hate storm".

Assassin_M
12-18-2014, 10:26 PM
Does he have fans? Yes.
Does he have haters? Yes.

As I said, the least Ubi needs is another "hate storm".
That applies to every Assassin, my problem was with your wording. "Connor is very hated" is something Pr0m or Stock would use and they're 5.

I don't think a Connor sequel would be as negative as people seem to think, not that I want one.

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 10:44 PM
is something Pr0m or Stock would use and they're 5.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QvNCwOK5-t4/UrbzXYunAoI/AAAAAAAAPd8/OregQh1zfFc/s1600/trying-not-to-laugh.gif

SixKeys
12-18-2014, 10:55 PM
Desmond made the wrong choice, IMO. The assassins have always fought for humanity's freedom and choosing to let the world burn instead of unleashing Juno on it would have been more in line with the assassins' philosophy. If Connor influenced Desmond's decision, then he's an even worse character than I previously thought. Hue hue. :rolleyes:

SpiritOfNevaeh
12-18-2014, 10:58 PM
That applies to every Assassin, my problem was with your wording. "Connor is very hated" is something Pr0m or Stock would use and they're 5.

I don't think a Connor sequel would be as negative as people seem to think, not that I want one.

I agree.

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 11:01 PM
^ The whole process would've began again if he chose the other. :rolleyes:

But what always came across my mind was that Desmond knew Minerva's vision and what would happen.

Why didn't he try to change it? The future isn't always set in stone, he could've done what his predestined self didn't do.

Just a thought.

SixKeys
12-18-2014, 11:30 PM
^ The whole process would've began again if he chose the other. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but it would have taken thousands of years to get to the same point and no Juno to worry about. I liked the whole idea of Desmond becoming something like a Jesus figure, with a cult surrounding him and would have been interested in seeing that scenario play out.

JustPlainQuirky
12-18-2014, 11:32 PM
Back to discussions about Connor sequels?

Just like ooool times *drinks hot chocolate*

I stand by my theory most men hated/disliked Connor and most women liked/indifferent to Connor

Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 11:37 PM
Desmond made the wrong choice, IMO. The assassins have always fought for humanity's freedom and choosing to let the world burn instead of unleashing Juno on it would have been more in line with the assassins' philosophy. If Connor influenced Desmond's decision, then he's an even worse character than I previously thought. Hue hue. :rolleyes:

U never get on Uplay anymore.

Namikaze_17
12-18-2014, 11:46 PM
Yeah, but it would have taken thousands of years to get to the same point and no Juno to worry about. I liked the whole idea of Desmond becoming something like a Jesus figure, with a cult surrounding him and would have been interested in seeing that scenario play out.

Yeah, same here.

It certainly would've been interesting to see...

SixKeys
12-19-2014, 12:14 AM
U never get on Uplay anymore.

I've been waiting for the patch since performance has been terrible as of late.

GunnerGalactico
12-19-2014, 10:00 AM
Polarizing = Hated

All signs point to him being pretty popular. Not as popular as other Assassins. He had a lot of people who didn't like him. It's most likely 60/40. Guy won an award, how many times do I have to mention this?

The voting panels must've been rigged then. How else could he have won?

If Connor was sooo hated, how come people were not petty enough to vote for another character just so that he wouldn't win? I mean any other character would've been better than him, right?..... This just goes to show that just because certain characters did not appeal to some people, doesn't mean that they are terrible. People like stock like to pluck false statistics from fresh air and over-exaggerate. :rolleyes:

HDinHB
12-19-2014, 10:39 AM
Polarizing = Hated

All signs point to him being pretty popular. Not as popular as other Assassins. He had a lot of people who didn't like him. It's most likely 60/40. Guy won an award, how many times do I have to mention this?

Is that supposed to be a "not equals" sign? Polarizing means, in this context, loved by some, hated by some, with not much middle ground. Unless you're trying to say Darby was spinning in that comment.


I would like to see more of Connor's story. I don't need to see him die "for closure," that's just...well maybe some people need that, but I don't understand that. But I think there's more story there to tell, and the poor guy only got 2/3 of a game to start with.


Desmond made the wrong choice, IMO. The assassins have always fought for humanity's freedom and choosing to let the world burn instead of unleashing Juno on it would have been more in line with the assassins' philosophy. If Connor influenced Desmond's decision, then he's an even worse character than I previously thought. Hue hue. :rolleyes:

I don't see how you come to that conclusion. The Assassin's aren't about some sort of global concept of freedom for humanity as a whole, they fight for the freedom of each individual. Letting the world burn wouldn't have done much for the freedom of individuals. Desmond made the right choice under the circumstances, leaving individuals to fight--or not--Juno as they choose. And, in hindsight, Juno is pretty much of a wuss anyway.

I do like the idea that Desmond's experience with his ancestors influenced his actions.