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Zero_Regen
12-17-2014, 10:50 AM
Should we be able to relate to the character on an emotional level or look at him/her as a strong untouchable character? Both? Thanks for any replies

X_xWolverinEx_X
12-17-2014, 10:57 AM
he needs a beard like this (its god like )
http://i.imgur.com/LtlMmCo.jpg

Zero_Regen
12-17-2014, 11:00 AM
A beard indeed helps

dxsxhxcx
12-17-2014, 11:01 AM
I know something he doesn't need, daddy issues... I think it's about time we have another Altair, someone that goes straight to the point...

X_xWolverinEx_X
12-17-2014, 11:05 AM
and he needs to be in his late 30/40s at least with his own kid/s or baby

GolfPro72
12-17-2014, 11:42 AM
I know something he doesn't need, daddy issues... I think it's about time we have another Altair, someone that goes straight to the point...

This. Altair has always been my favourite, followed by older Ezio. We need more stoic, almost emotionless assassins that are geared toward getting the job done with fewer internal conflicts. I know this makes the story line more challenging, but honestly, the story lines have not been great since 2 anyway, so it's not a huge loss.

rrebe
12-17-2014, 11:47 AM
Top hat and mustache.

ze_topazio
12-17-2014, 12:28 PM
Needs to be named José.

YukiFA
12-17-2014, 12:30 PM
To be voiced by Steve Blum.

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 12:43 PM
- They need to already be an Assassin. Good God, no more origin stories. I want an Assassin who is all about the mission, the mission, the mission a la Altair. No emotional baggage.
- To expand on the last point. Their primary goal should be to take down Templars because they are a threat to society not for ulterior reasons like revenge.
- They need to have no affinity for the Templars. None of this unity crap the last few games have taken on.
- They need to be female. Come on, Ubisoft, have more faith in your audience.
- They need to a person of colour. Connor doesn't count. He shared the game with a white male who ate up the first 3 hours of the game.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 01:21 PM
I'm not too picky.

Just as long as the character brings something new, has layers, and is generally compelling.

But most importantly, he/she needs a character arc.

There has to be a change going on.

VoXngola
12-17-2014, 01:34 PM
What most people said in this thread. Someone who doesn't have a revenge/redemption story. Someone without any origin story. I just want an older guy or female who is born into the order, or atleast when we start the game already is an assassin, who does everything he does, like Altair, for humankind itself and tries to stop the templars as much as he can.

Also, stop with the charismatic/serious characters. There are different character archetypes. Explore them, christ.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-17-2014, 02:00 PM
Should we be able to relate to the character on an emotional level or look at him/her as a strong untouchable character? Both? Thanks for any replies

Well, firstly, he or she needs to be in a game that works, and that isn't still being patched a month after release. ;)

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 02:15 PM
I'm not too picky.

Just as long as the character brings something new, has layers, and is generally compelling.

But most importantly, he/she needs a character arc.

There has to be a change going on.

This.

rob.davies2014
12-17-2014, 03:03 PM
Flawed, like Edward. A flawed character is SO MUCH more interesting than an Ezio type character.

I'd like to have a female protagonist. I think it would make a nice change.

It would also be cool to have an LGBTQ protagonist (as well as LGBTQ secondary characters). That community has not really been represented in AC (as with most video game franchises).

A good sword fighter. More fencing than hacking and slashing.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 03:10 PM
So a middleaged father assassin with top hat, mustache, and a rockin' beard....interesting.... :rolleyes:


It would also be cool to have an LGBTQ protagonist (as well as LGBTQ secondary characters). That community has not really been represented in AC (as with most video game franchises).


I'd only ever openly support this if said protagonist was Shay Patrick Cormac :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 03:17 PM
The Charismatic Casnova personality...


It's sooo original and really would bring the series back even further to its roots. :rolleyes:

And add many one-dimensional side characters to add to it. ;)

BOOM!

$eries = Revived :p

Pr0metheus 1962
12-17-2014, 03:27 PM
Flawed, like Edward. A flawed character is SO MUCH more interesting than an Ezio type character.

Ezio was flawed. He was not exactly the brightest bulb, and he was (eventually) an inveterate womanizer. Basically, he was Joey from the TV show "Friends".

SixKeys
12-17-2014, 03:41 PM
I want a female assassin. It's ridiculous that we've had 9 (!) main games - including Victory - in a row with a male protagonist. They can't even claim their stories specifically require a male perspective, since at least 3 of those assassins have daddy issues and a revenge plot. Hardly original or something that can only be told through male characters.

rob.davies2014
12-17-2014, 03:50 PM
Ezio was flawed. He was not exactly the brightest bulb, and he was (eventually) an inveterate womanizer. Basically, he was Joey from the TV show "Friends".

Come on, Joey from Friends is hardly the epitome of a 'flawed' character. Ezio wasn't flawed in any serious or interesting way. I was talking about something that handicaps the protagonist to the extend that he or she has to make an effort to overcome it. A weakness which normal people can relate to.

shahar_96
12-17-2014, 03:52 PM
A protagonist that in his 30s-40s. That was an assassin in his early 20s(19-20), but a mission that gone worng send him to jail for ten years. After all that years he forget almost everything he learned from the assassins and already have family and children.
And now the assassins want him to comeback to finish what his started.

A dark assassin that strike fear in the city but also have emotions.

Aphex_Tim
12-17-2014, 03:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHgpklQc34I

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 03:55 PM
I want a female assassin. It's ridiculous that we've had 9 (!) main games - including Victory - in a row with a male protagonist. They can't even claim their stories specifically require a male perspective, since at least 3 of those assassins have daddy issues and a revenge plot. Hardly original or something that can only be told through male characters.

Nobody is saying they REQUIRE a male assassin. It's just coincidental or statistical/probability design choice.

The fact that you dislike that there is a majority of men is kind of sexist by definition. Just saying.

Lack of women does not indicate negativity towards women.

Nor does the presence of ovaries in a protagonist affect a narrative.

Same applies for male privates.

What matters is a character. Not their biological traits.

Nor is it Ubisoft's job to establish representation.

Let the developers do as they please. And if their views align with yours, then yeah that can happen.

Not against the idea of a woman protagonist.

I don't care either way.

But saying it NEEDS one as if it affects gameplay/story much comes off as silly to me.

And don't pull the 'allows women to identify more' card. I can equally identify with all regardless of their biological traits.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 04:04 PM
Come on, Joey from Friends is hardly the epitome of a 'flawed' character. Ezio wasn't flawed in any serious or interesting way. I was talking about something that handicaps the protagonist to the extend that he or she has to make an effort to overcome it. A weakness which normal people can relate to.

This.

Altaïr was Arrogant, Cocky, and took the Creed for granted. He had to overcome that.
Edward was Selfish and had his lust for money. Eventually that took everything from him, and he over overcame that.
Connor was naive. He eventually realized this and overcame it in time.
Arno was too affectionate. This eventually made him lose someone that didn't feel the same way.

I can't really think of a Major flaw for Ezio.

Shahkulu101
12-17-2014, 04:10 PM
What does the next protagonist need?

Something I can't think of. They must be unpredictable, unique - that may sound pretentious but we do need something totally refreshing. After so many years of origin stories, revenge-driven protagonists - I'm growing tired of the same old.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 04:10 PM
Connor was native. He eventually realized this and overcame it in time.


AAHAHAHHAHAHA

http://cdn2.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Ricky-Gervais-Hysterical-Laughter.gif

I think you mean, NAIVE brah.

But I would argue he never overcame his naivety.

But I actually find that compelling, because according to abstergo (which is admittedly biased) this DOES come back to bite him.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 04:24 PM
AAHAHAHHAHAHA

http://cdn2.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Ricky-Gervais-Hysterical-Laughter.gif

I think you mean, NAIVE brah.

But I would argue he never overcame his naivety.

But I actually find that compelling, because according to abstergo (which is admittedly biased) this DOES come back to bite him.

XD.

That damn autocorrect. :rolleyes:

Regarding the topic, he did.

"I realize now that it will take time, that the road ahead is long and shrouded in darkness, it is a road which will not always take me where I wish to go and I doubt I will live to see it’s end, but I will travel down it nonetheless."

^ This in itself shows he becomes a cautious optimist about life.

I don't know...IT IS abstergo. They ( We) always have ways of spinning the Truth.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 04:26 PM
"I realize now that it will take time, that the road ahead is long and shrouded in darkness, it is a road which will not always take me where I wish to go and I doubt I will live to see it’s end, but I will travel down it nonetheless."

^ This in itself shows he becomes a cautious optimist about life.

hmm.....I actually didn't sit down to think about that.

You're right.

SixKeys
12-17-2014, 04:34 PM
Nobody is saying they REQUIRE a male assassin. It's just coincidental or statistical/probability design choice.

LOL yeah, it's a total coincidence that 99% of all video game protagonists are white, 20-something males. :rolleyes:

There is actually evidence that developers are sometimes being held back from creating female protagonists due to pressure from higher-ups. Games with female protagonists also receive a much smaller marketing budget than titles with male protagonists.


The fact that you dislike that there is a majority of men is kind of sexist by definition. Just saying.

Sexism = power + privilege. Men have power and privilege in our society, women don't. That's why there's no such thing as reverse sexism, just like there's no reverse racism (since whites hold power + privilege and ethnic minorities don't). There can be discrimination against both genders, but it's not the same as sexism. Just saying.


Nor does the presence of ovaries in a protagonist affect a narrative.

Not all women have ovaries, and not all those who have ovaries are women. Just saying.


What matters is a character. Not their biological traits.

On that we agree.


Nor is it Ubisoft's job to establish representation.

I never said it was. It's also not Ubisoft's job to better their games in any way. It's not their job to take any of our feedback into consideration in any way whatsoever. Unity had a bad story? Quit your whining, it's not Ubisoft's job to make better stories. Their job is to make games, good or bad, and we're just supposed to eat it all up without any suggestions or criticisms.


I don't care either way.

For someone who doesn't care either way, you sure do always take the time to object whenever someone brings it up.


But saying it NEEDS one as if it affects gameplay/story much comes off as silly to me.

I didn't say they NEED one. They don't NEED a good story either. Some people don't care about story. They don't NEED modern day. They don't NEED to get rid of Initiates. So therefore we should never request any of these things, right?


And don't pull the 'allows women to identify more' card. I can equally identify with all regardless of their biological traits.

Good for you, but you don't represent all women. If Ubisoft came out tomorrow and said "BTW, our next assassin is going to be disabled", I'm not going to say "I hate this because I'm disabled and I don't care about disabled characters in video games and therefore other disabled people shouldn't care either".

Pr0metheus 1962
12-17-2014, 04:50 PM
Come on, Joey from Friends is hardly the epitome of a 'flawed' character...

Hey, I'm just saying. After all, we've been talking about Edward Kenway - he wasn't exactly flawed in any major way. He was focused on making money and he liked drinking. He was not exactly emotionally or physically scarred or anything.

Anyway, wasn't the death of Ezio's whole family kind of "something that handicaps the protagonist to the extent that he or she has to make an effort to overcome it"?

Ah well, whatever.

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 04:58 PM
Come on, Joey from Friends is hardly the epitome of a 'flawed' character. Ezio wasn't flawed in any serious or interesting way. I was talking about something that handicaps the protagonist to the extend that he or she has to make an effort to overcome it. A weakness which normal people can relate to.

Altair - merciless at times and proud but overcame this.
Ezio - revenge driven and petty but overcame this. (Perhaps that's why, along with Altair, he was such a beloved character - he actually had character development)
Connor - stubborn, unable to see the forest for the trees.
Edward - selfish, greedy, ambitious to the point of being disloyal.
Arno - irresponsible, unreliable and incapable of seeing beyond his precious Elise (which ultimately why his adopted father got killed)

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 05:03 PM
Nobody is saying they REQUIRE a male assassin. It's just coincidental or statistical/probability design choice.

The fact that you dislike that there is a majority of men is kind of sexist by definition. Just saying.

Lack of women does not indicate negativity towards women.

Nor does the presence of ovaries in a protagonist affect a narrative.

Same applies for male privates.

What matters is a character. Not their biological traits.

Nor is it Ubisoft's job to establish representation.

Let the developers do as they please. And if their views align with yours, then yeah that can happen.

Not against the idea of a woman protagonist.

I don't care either way.

But saying it NEEDS one as if it affects gameplay/story much comes off as silly to me.

And don't pull the 'allows women to identify more' card. I can equally identify with all regardless of their biological traits.

Oh, give it a rest. Of course lack of diversity indicates a serious attitude problem from the devs. Conversations about race and gender take place each time devs hold meetings regarding the identity of the protagonist and there is a reason why 'white male' always wins out. I agree that the presence of ovaries shouldn't affect narrative - maybe you should tell Ubisoft that the next time they decide against a female protagonist.

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 05:09 PM
LOL yeah, it's a total coincidence that 99% of all video game protagonists are white, 20-something males. :rolleyes:

There is actually evidence that developers are sometimes being held back from creating female protagonists due to pressure from higher-ups. Games with female protagonists also receive a much smaller marketing budget than titles with male protagonists.



Sexism = power + privilege. Men have power and privilege in our society, women don't. That's why there's no such thing as reverse sexism, just like there's no reverse racism (since whites hold power + privilege and ethnic minorities don't). There can be discrimination against both genders, but it's not the same as sexism. Just saying.



Not all women have ovaries, and not all those who have ovaries are women. Just saying.



On that we agree.



I never said it was. It's also not Ubisoft's job to better their games in any way. It's not their job to take any of our feedback into consideration in any way whatsoever. Unity had a bad story? Quit your whining, it's not Ubisoft's job to make better stories. Their job is to make games, good or bad, and we're just supposed to eat it all up without any suggestions or criticisms.



For someone who doesn't care either way, you sure do always take the time to object whenever someone brings it up.



I didn't say they NEED one. They don't NEED a good story either. Some people don't care about story. They don't NEED modern day. They don't NEED to get rid of Initiates. So therefore we should never request any of these things, right?



Good for you, but you don't represent all women. If Ubisoft came out tomorrow and said "BTW, our next assassin is going to be disabled", I'm not going to say "I hate this because I'm disabled and I don't care about disabled characters in video games and therefore other disabled people shouldn't care either".


*Claps* Couldn't have said it better if I tried. I wouldn't even bother with that poster on this particular matter. She seems to think that being a woman makes her the authority on gender issues within the game and doesn't seem to understand that she doesn't represent all women.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 05:17 PM
Sexism = power + privilege. Men have power and privilege in our society, women don't. That's why there's no such thing as reverse sexism, just like there's no reverse racism (since whites hold power + privilege and ethnic minorities don't). There can be discrimination against both genders, but it's not the same as sexism. Just saying.

There is no such thing as reverse racism because it's just called racism.

Disliking a protagonist because he is white (regardless of the reasoning "oh we've had too many white assassins") by definition is racist.


I never said it was. It's also not Ubisoft's job to better their games in any way. It's not their job to take any of our feedback into consideration in any way whatsoever. Unity had a bad story? Quit your whining, it's not Ubisoft's job to make better stories. Their job is to make games, good or bad, and we're just supposed to eat it all up without any suggestions or criticisms.

A narrative is an important element of a game.

The biological traits of the protagonist is not.


For someone who doesn't care either way, you sure do always take the time to object whenever someone brings it up.

Because there is nothing I hate more than people pushing their progressive interests on a product and insisting it betters the product.

Because there is no difference.


I didn't say they NEED one. They don't NEED a good story either. Some people don't care about story. They don't NEED modern day. They don't NEED to get rid of Initiates. So therefore we should never request any of these things, right?



Poor story and gameplay restrictions do in fact retract from a gaming experience.

The gender identity being not of the statistical majority does not.


Good for you, but you don't represent all women. If Ubisoft came out tomorrow and said "BTW, our next assassin is going to be disabled", I'm not going to say "I hate this because I'm disabled and I don't care about disabled characters in video games and therefore other disabled people shouldn't care either".

I never claimed to be representative of all women.

I'm saying that the protagonist's biological traits do not affect a game in a positive or negative manner.

And the idea of being more immersed due to a race/sex you identify with is inherently racist/sexist

edit: and I wouldnt hate a game with a woman if ubisoft released it by their own choice and personal interests. it's when fandoms demand it due to "obligation for representation" does it annoy me


Oh, give it a rest. Of course lack of diversity indicates a serious attitude problem from the devs. Conversations about race and gender take place each time devs hold meetings regarding the identity of the protagonist and there is a reason why 'white male' always wins out. I agree that the presence of ovaries shouldn't affect narrative - maybe you should tell Ubisoft that the next time they decide against a female protagonist.

As stated before, the biological traits of a protagonist is valueless and disapproving of a protagonist due to their biological traits is discrimination.


*Claps* Couldn't have said it better if I tried. I wouldn't even bother with that poster on this particular matter. She seems to think that being a woman makes her the authority on gender issues within the game and doesn't seem to understand that she doesn't represent all women.

http://i.imgur.com/rLf68vf.gif

I never claimed to be.

But the gender of a character in a vidoegame is VALUELESS and people who push for it in a fandom are just trying to push their progressive views onto something that does not affect the product.

Democrito_71
12-17-2014, 05:19 PM
A protagonist who is already an experienced Assassin by the start of the game

A protagonist who joins the order by his/her belief in peace to his/her country men

A protagonist who is left-handed in combat

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 05:33 PM
There is no such thing as reverse racism because it's just called racism.
As stated before, the biological traits of a protagonist is valueless and disapproving of a protagonist due to their biological traits is discrimination.

I'm going to leave you with this because I feel any further discussion with you on this topic is a waste of time:

Your problem, Mayrice, is that you fail to realise this is exatly what Ubisoft do each and every time they decide against a female/black protagonist for the main game simply because she is female and black.

Regards.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-17-2014, 05:33 PM
What do I think a new Assassin protagonist needs? Honestly?

Breasts. And not the kind men get when they have a hormonal imbalance.


...disapproving of a protagonist due to their biological traits is discrimination..

So is releasing seven major console games with all seven having a male protagonist. So is releasing eight games (including handhelds), with only one of them having a woman protagonist. In a culture in which women are routinely discriminated against, the only fair answer to discrimination against women is discrimination towards women. The alternative is acceptance of cultural misogyny, which is discrimination against women.

I find it interesting that your argument against affirmative action based on gender is exactly the same as that used by the opponents of affirmative action based on race. In both cases, it assumes that a culture of discrimination doesn't exist, when in fact it does.


...the gender of a character in a vidoegame is VALUELESS and people who push for it in a fandom are just trying to push their progressive views onto something that does not affect the product.

If the gender of a character in a videogame is indeed valueless and doesn't affect the final product, then why does it seem that keeping all the protagonists male is so important to folks like you? And doesn't the blade cut both ways? I mean, if pushing for female protagonists is an attempt to push progressive views on everyone, then surely pushing to keep protagonists male is an attempt to push REGRESSIVE views on all of us. Let's face facts - defending "all male" is not a neutral position - it's an extremist position.

All I'm asking for is a happy medium. Heck, I don't even need that - I'd settle for just 25% of game protagonists being female. The current state of Assassin's Creed is that female protagonists make up exactly zero percent. It only rises to 12.5% if you include a game that wasn't even originally intended to be on consoles, and which is at best a glorified DLC.

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 05:34 PM
A protagonist who is already an experienced Assassin by the start of the game

A protagonist who joins the order by his/her belief in peace to his/her country men

A protagonist who is left-handed in combat

Connor used both. But agree, playing as a lefty would change combat approach considerably.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 05:35 PM
I'm going to leave you with this because I feel any further discussion with you on this topic is a waste of time:

Your problem, Mayrice, is that you fail to realise this is exatly what Ubisoft do each and every time they decide against a female/black protagonist for the main game simply because she is female and black.

Regards.

Dismissing my statement without a decisive counterargument just makes your statement valueless.

I stand by my argument.

RinoTheBouncer
12-17-2014, 05:36 PM
I think he needs to be a Sage this time. A sage who’s born and raised into the Creed with a story that is heavily related to the Creed and the First Civ.

I don’t care if he’s charismatic or stoic or brash. I want a convincing and realistic figure, with a dark story and hopefully deliver one of those epic speeches like Ezio did “Show them what it means to cross the Assassins!” I love those moments in movies and games!

Regarding race or gender, I don’t really care about any of those. I want the Assassin to be an Assassin. I don’t want it to be a statement about race, religion or gender. I want a story that makes me love the character whether he’s black, white, gay, straight, bi, arab, american, muslim, christian, male or female. I didn’t love Altair because he’s an Arab like me nor Ezio because he’s a man nor Edward because he’s white. I loved all of them because each of them had a story to tell and their story made me love them.

So if soon, they announce that there will be a white female as an Assassin or a arab and bisexual assassin. I wouldn’t be too excited unless I play the game and see what the story has to tell, because that’s why I play these games, for their stories and lore.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 05:44 PM
Regarding race or gender, I don’t really care about any of those. I want the Assassin to be an Assassin. I don’t want it to be a statement about race, religion or gender. I want a story that makes me love the character whether he’s black, white, gay, straight, bi, arab, american, muslim, christian, male or female. I didn’t love Altair because he’s an Arab like me nor Ezio because he’s a man nor Edward because he’s white. I loved all of them because each of them had a story to tell and their story made me love them.

So if soon, they announce that there will be a white female as an Assassin or a arab and bisexual assassin. I wouldn’t be too excited unless I play the game and see what the story has to tell, because that’s why I play these games, for their stories and lore.

This exactly.

The whole concept of getting excited because a game features a female protagonist is just unfathomable to me.

It doesn't add to the game (unless it is the topic of sexism/racist of the time period like Freedom Cry)

Nor does it retract from the game.

And people are getting the idea I'd be against having a female protagonist.

I don't.

Darby said he wants to write one. That's his views as a developer and I respect that.

but the fandom pushing their agendas and claiming it adding to the experience upsets me to no end

RinoTheBouncer
12-17-2014, 05:51 PM
This exactly.

The whole concept of getting excited because a game features a female protagonist is just unfathomable to me.

It doesn't add to the game (unless it is the topic of sexism/racist of the time period like Freedom Cry)

Nor does it retract from the game.

And people are getting the idea I'd be against having a female protagonist.

I don't.

Darby said he wants to write one. That's his views as a developer and I respect that.

but the fandom pushing their agendas and claiming it adding to the experience upsets me to no end

EXACTLY

Video Gaming is an art. And I appreciate any form of art that has a message to say. However, I want this form of art to speak when it feels like speaking, to say a message when it’s makers find the convenient story or setting and not just doing it to avoid claims of sexism and racism from people. No artist has to abide by any rules when creating a work of art. There’s something called Artistic Freedom and that’s what I call for.

No video game or movie maker or writer or even any regular person is forced to cheer and show support for a certain cause and I’m neither a racist nor a sexist nor a homophobe, but I believe that if the creative minds behind the games have something to say about one of those subjects, they should say it when they feel like it, nor either say it or get attacked, trashed and call names for not doing it.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 05:52 PM
Do you believe this "female lead" fisaco is because of Ubi's failure ( in my opinion) to write a good protagonist in Aveline?

Maybe they're afraid the same will happen again?

Regarding the topic, I'm not against having one.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 05:56 PM
No artist has to abide by any rules when creating a work of art. There’s something called Artistic Freedom and that’s what I call for.

No video game or movie maker or writer or even any regular person is forced to cheer and show support for a certain cause and I’m neither a racist nor a sexist nor a homophobe, but I believe that if the creative minds behind the games have something to say about one of those subjects, they should say it when they feel like it, nor either say it or get attacked, trashed and call names for not doing it.

This one thousand times.

Rino, please marry me.

I swear to god I cannot speak up about this without people thinking im some self-hating sexist and it frustrates me to no end.

As someone who values the importance of indifference, this is just a very passionate subject for me.

@nami

I get super pissed when people get mad over aveline claiming for her to be a disappointment to women representation in gaming

to hell with representation in gaming

it's pointless and offers nothing

Aveline was a bad character regardless of her gender

same applies to Arno, Elise, Aiden Pierce, Talion, etc.

Hans684
12-17-2014, 06:00 PM
Have a dark story

A reason to relive his memories and that it has impact on the story.

Gray erea

No family issues, no revange/redemtion story.

RinoTheBouncer
12-17-2014, 06:02 PM
This one thousand times.

Rino, please marry me.

I swear to god I cannot speak up about this without people thinking im some self-hating sexist and it frustrates me to no end.

As someone who values the importance of indifference, this is just a very passionate subject for me.

Mayrice, will you marry me?

Thanks for your support.

The same thing happened when people attacked Lana Del Rey for saying that she’s not a feminist. She said I don’t know much about that subject and that I’d rather talk about galactic travel or important subjects like these than about feminism as I personally don’t know much about it, and in my songs, I don’t call out for women to be submissive to their men, I merely express my personal desires and if I enjoyed a more submissive and physical relationship with a man, that’s my choice.

I actually respect her for that, because artists don’t necessarily have to be forced to show support to something, and that doesn’t mean they’re discouraging or encouraging anything nor that they’re against it. I respect Madonna for saying I’m not a feminist, I’m a humanist. I stand for the rights of all human beings. Oh what a noble message!

On the other hand, I cannot respect many of those new female artists who claim to support gay rights and show two male dancers kissing on stage, just to sell their records among the LGBT. I respect the LGBT, greatly and I respect women with all my heart and soul, yet I believe that most of those “activists” today are doing this just to fit in and I hate that, because if you support, you support because you wanna support not because you’re forced to do so nor because you’re doing it to avoid backlash.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 06:03 PM
Have a dark story

A reason to relive his memories and that it has impact on the story.

Gray erea

No family issues, no revange/redemtion story.

Well put, Grandmaster. :cool:


@nami

I get super pissed when people get mad over aveline claiming for her to be a disappointment to women representation in gaming

to hell with representation in gaming

it's pointless and offers nothing

For some reason when I play Video games, these thoughts never cross my mind. :rolleyes:

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 06:04 PM
Mayrice, will you marry me?

Thanks for your support.

The same thing happened when people attacked Lana Del Rey for saying that she’s not a feminist. She said I don’t know much about that subject and that I’d rather talk about galactic travel or important subjects like these than about feminism as I personally don’t know much about it, and in my songs, I don’t call out for women to be submissive to their men, I merely express my personal desires. I actually respect her for that, because artists don’t necessarily have to be forced to show support to something, and that doesn’t mean they’re discouraging or encourage anything nor that they’re against it. I respect Madonna for saying I’m not a feminist, I’m a humanist. I stand for the rights of all human beings. Oh what a noble message!

On the other hand, I cannot respect many of those new female artists who claim to support gay rights and show two male dancers kissing on stage, just to sell their records among the LGBT. I respect the LGBT, greatly and I respect women with all my heart and soul, yet I believe that most of those “activists” today are doing this just to fit in and I hate that, because if you support, you support because you wanna support not because you’re forced to do so nor because you’re doing it to avoid backlash.

I do.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/da4e5a6de1de6898921ec7178b911c24/tumblr_inline_mh1y2ufHy61ro2d43.gif

And this is why I respect individuals like Christina H Sommers. A woman who promotes feminist while analyzing the facts on what truly affects what.

That way there can be less people victimizing themselves.

Hans684
12-17-2014, 06:07 PM
Forgot to say, make the character more involved in the time, it's easy to forget there is revolution going on in Unity.

As for the Assassins, make them care about what's going on. In Unity they are just siting in their sanctuary looking at the roof while Arno ran around like a headless chicken doing whatever he wants.

RinoTheBouncer
12-17-2014, 06:13 PM
I do.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/da4e5a6de1de6898921ec7178b911c24/tumblr_inline_mh1y2ufHy61ro2d43.gif

And this is why I respect individuals like Christina H Sommers. A woman who promotes feminist while analyzing the facts on what truly affects what.

That way there can be less people victimizing themselves.

I hope I’m as handsome as Eugene! haha <3

Regarding victimizing oneself. While I don’t claim nor think that people whom are deprived from their rights, whether they’re women, LGBT..etc. but there are some teens on certain fan sites of some singers who victimize themselves just to attention from their singer who claims to support them. I totally hate that, because I’ve seen some faking abusing and coming out and rejection stories just to get words like “I support you”, “you’re beautiful just the way you are!” or “you are fabulous”, “you are not fat, you’re perfect!” from other fans and the singer herself. I hate that stuff because that’s typical attention-whoring.

Another thing is how people are becoming so easily offended these days. It’s like you can’t say a word without being misunderstood and seeing what you said translated as an insult and people always using a the victim card in any argument. I have the right to dislike somebody, to avoid somebody and that doesn’t necessarily have to be because of the color of their skin or their religion or their gender or sexuality. Sometimes, a person is just not a good person or not a nice person or just not likable. And many people these days consider that as a form of racism, while in reality, it’s all about their personality and behavior.

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 06:19 PM
I hope I’m as handsome as Eugene! haha <3

Regarding victimizing oneself. While I don’t claim nor think that people whom are deprived from their rights, whether they’re women, LGBT..etc. but there are some teens on certain fan sites of some singers who victimize themselves just to attention from their singer who claims to support them. I totally hate that, because I’ve seen some faking abusing and coming out and rejection stories just to get words like “I support you”, “you’re beautiful just the way you are!” or “you are fabulous”, “you are not fat, you’re perfect!” from other fans and the singer herself. I hate that stuff because that’s typical attention-whoring.

Another thing is how people are becoming so easily offended these days. It’s like you can’t say a word without being misunderstood and seeing what you said translated as an insult and people always using a the victim card in any argument. I have the right to dislike somebody, to avoid somebody and that doesn’t necessarily have to be because of the color of their skin or their religion or their gender or sexuality. Sometimes, a person is just not a good person or not a nice person or just not likable. And many people these days consider that as a form of racism, while in reality, it’s all about their personality and behavior.

This is why I avoid places like facebook and tumblr sometimes.

Nothing but whining and victimizing.

That's why whenever I tweet something even remotely emotional (rare as they are), I try to be as careful as possible not to sound like a stereotypical whiny facebook white girl crying for attention.

And I believe you are referring to sensitive snowflakes found on tumblr. This video accurately represents my perspective.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-e4PgiVfM

I relate to it on a personal level based on both online and IRL experiences.

I'm honestly lucky I was born a woman because otherwise many people would just dismiss me as a sexist in many occasions

king-hailz
12-17-2014, 06:19 PM
I've said this before but I want to play as an older person who is a parent, preferably a mother, who finds out about the assassins herself in a land where the assassins have been lost for a very long time. I want to see someone see what the assassins are and alter it slightly, without actually meeting any. I want to be able to recruit the major secondary assassins within the story like ac3 and have the rest like acb... I also want her to have the struggle to do what she wants which is stop the tyranny in the world with having to look after her children... she also is arranged married to her husband so maybe it will be set in asia where woman had little rights, and have her husband be quite forcefull... so maybe near the end she gets rid of the fear she has with her husband and gets rid of him and takes her children away outside the city to start the brotherhood.


Basically I want something that is not stereotypically done before and have a character who has an actual struggle within the game and doesn't just go around killing people for being a templar. I want someone who understands the creed. I want someone who has a history.

Maybe let us play as an older character already the leader of the assassins and have him have flashbacks to when he was younger to when he was brought to creed and that kinda stuff... this way we can have an ezio from revelatrevelations type character while knowing his past.... Make it long to have enough flashbacks...

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 06:19 PM
Forgot to say, make the character more involved in the time, it's easy to forget there is revolution going on in Unity.

As for the Assassins, make them care about what's going on. In Unity they are just siting in their sanctuary looking at the roof while Arno ran around like a headless chicken doing whatever he wants.

*Slowly claps hands*

You are killing it. :cool:

king-hailz
12-17-2014, 06:21 PM
This is why I avoid places like facebook and tumblr sometimes.

Nothing but whining and victimizing.

That's why whenever I tweet something even remotely emotional (rare as they are), I try to be as careful as possible not to sound like a stereotypical whiny facebook white girl crying for attention.

And I believe you are referring to sensitive snowflakes found on tumblr. This video accurately represents my perspective.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-e4PgiVfM

I relate to it on a personal level based on both online and IRL experiences.

I'm honestly lucky I was born a woman because otherwise many people would just dismiss me as a sexist in may occasions

Hey what's your twitter???

JustPlainQuirky
12-17-2014, 06:22 PM
Hey what's your twitter???

JustPlainQuirky

Fair warning though, I can be significantly politically incorrect there for the lulz.

rob.davies2014
12-17-2014, 06:23 PM
LOL yeah, it's a total coincidence that 99% of all video game protagonists are white, 20-something males. :rolleyes:

There is actually evidence that developers are sometimes being held back from creating female protagonists due to pressure from higher-ups. Games with female protagonists also receive a much smaller marketing budget than titles with male protagonists.



Sexism = power + privilege. Men have power and privilege in our society, women don't. That's why there's no such thing as reverse sexism, just like there's no reverse racism (since whites hold power + privilege and ethnic minorities don't). There can be discrimination against both genders, but it's not the same as sexism. Just saying.



Not all women have ovaries, and not all those who have ovaries are women. Just saying.



On that we agree.



I never said it was. It's also not Ubisoft's job to better their games in any way. It's not their job to take any of our feedback into consideration in any way whatsoever. Unity had a bad story? Quit your whining, it's not Ubisoft's job to make better stories. Their job is to make games, good or bad, and we're just supposed to eat it all up without any suggestions or criticisms.



For someone who doesn't care either way, you sure do always take the time to object whenever someone brings it up.



I didn't say they NEED one. They don't NEED a good story either. Some people don't care about story. They don't NEED modern day. They don't NEED to get rid of Initiates. So therefore we should never request any of these things, right?



Good for you, but you don't represent all women. If Ubisoft came out tomorrow and said "BTW, our next assassin is going to be disabled", I'm not going to say "I hate this because I'm disabled and I don't care about disabled characters in video games and therefore other disabled people shouldn't care either".

This.

So glad someone responded for me. I didn't know if I could be bothered to go through this again.

Getting annoyed that women are underrepresented in the video game industry is not sexist.

It is not a coincidence that all our protagonists have been male. It's pandering to what they think gamers want. Ideally it would be 50% and at the moment it's 0% in the main games... That's not an accident.

Overload64
12-17-2014, 06:23 PM
I would like a more selfish cold protagonist, the kind of person that doesn't care who he hurts just as long as he gets what he wants. From the consequences of his actions he will change his beliefs. Either to become a heartless monster who will actively sacrifice people or a more respectfull killer that will value life.

king-hailz
12-17-2014, 06:24 PM
JustPlainQuirky

Fair warning though, I can be significantly politically incorrect there for the lulz.

:p

Democrito_71
12-17-2014, 06:32 PM
Connor used both. But agree, playing as a lefty would change combat approach considerably.

Yes, the animations in the left-handed combat style would be considerably different from the usual right-handed combat style. Having the hidden blade on the right arm instead of the usual left arm would also change the animations in the low-profile/high-profile assassinations too. Even if the combat and the assassination gameplay would be the same as in Unity, a left-handed protagonist would still feel considerably different from the other right-handed protagonists in the AC-series.

rob.davies2014
12-17-2014, 06:36 PM
I've said this before but I want to play as an older person who is a parent, preferably a mother, who finds out about the assassins herself in a land where the assassins have been lost for a very long time. I want to see someone see what the assassins are and alter it slightly, without actually meeting any. I want to be able to recruit the major secondary assassins within the story like ac3 and have the rest like acb... I also want her to have the struggle to do what she wants which is stop the tyranny in the world with having to look after her children... she also is arranged married to her husband so maybe it will be set in asia where woman had little rights, and have her husband be quite forcefull... so maybe near the end she gets rid of the fear she has with her husband and gets rid of him and takes her children away outside the city to start the brotherhood.


I like this idea. Like AC3 except without Achilles to guide you in rebuilding the Brotherhood. Maybe the protagonist comes across a book or the Assassins abandoned hideout and decides to set up another Brotherhood to confront an oppressive regime. That would be really cool!

GunnerGalactico
12-17-2014, 06:48 PM
Maybe let us play as an older character already the leader of the assassins and have him have flashbacks to when he was younger to when he was brought to creed and that kinda stuff... this way we can have an ezio from revelatrevelations type character while knowing his past.... Make it long to have enough flashbacks...

This has potential. We could have the main character narrate his story and play through the flash backs and he/she will explain how those events lead to his/her destination.

king-hailz
12-17-2014, 06:56 PM
I like this idea. Like AC3 except without Achilles to guide you in rebuilding the Brotherhood. Maybe the protagonist comes across a book or the Assassins abandoned hideout and decides to set up another Brotherhood to confront an oppressive regime. That would be really cool!

I was thinking a diary or a book found in an old hideout. I also like the idea of her changing certain aspects of the creed to suit the situation.

king-hailz
12-17-2014, 06:59 PM
This has potential. We could have the main character narrate his story and play through the flash backs and he/she will explain how those events lead to his/her destination.

Or maybe when we see certain things like characters we used to know we have a flashback missions telling us the history of that character. Or when we talk about something about the past like when someone asks 'how did you end up with the assassins?' We get another flashback telling us what happened.

Assassin_M
12-17-2014, 08:05 PM
Someone who's not "brash". Seriously, what the hell is up with that? Every year "This and that is brash, he goes into situations without thinking" What's the appeal in this after so many times done? Oh and no, Ezio didn't have any development. People don't care about development, just a character who gives them the fantasy of being boss. Don't nobody bring up Ezio and development, no need for this to go off-topic.

What a character needs is an out of the comfort zone type. AC II, ACB, AC IV and ACU. Stripping the characters in these games of everything, they're the same archetype. They spout "witty" one liners, they joke a lot, they make fun of dangerous situations..etc they're basically Nathan Drake. That's 4 games out of 7, so I believe that's quite enough of that character archetype. R*'s games succeed a lot because they're ALL different. Carl Johnson is different from Tommy Vercetti. Michael Townley is different from Trevor. John Marston is different from Niko Bellic. They step out of their comfort zones and craft great stories with so many different colors of characters. They're confident in their ability to craft a quality story through ANY type of avatar.

I don't doubt that Victory's leading man will be just another "brash", charismatic type of guy who makes witty one liners. So it feels pretty pointless to suggest anything right now, or ever. As, really, Ubisoft has been doing nothing but please the larger fanbase.

GunnerGalactico
12-17-2014, 08:11 PM
What a character needs is an out of the comfort zone type. AC II, ACB, AC IV and ACU. Stripping the characters in these games of everything, they're the same archetype. They spout "witty" one liners, they joke a lot, they make fun of dangerous situations..etc they're basically Nathan Drake. That's 4 games out of 7, so I believe that's quite enough of that character archetype. R*'s games succeed a lot because they're ALL different. Carl Johnson is different from Tommy Vercetti. Michael Townley is different from Trevor. John Marston is different from Niko Bellic. They step out of their comfort zones and craft great stories with so many different colors of characters. They're confident in their ability to craft a quality story through ANY type of avatar.

I don't doubt that Victory's leading man will be just another "brash", charismatic type of guy who makes witty one liners. So it feels pretty pointless to suggest anything right now, or ever. As, really, Ubisoft has been doing nothing but please the larger fanbase.

^ Absolutely this!

Megas_Doux
12-17-2014, 08:15 PM
Someone who's not "brash". Seriously, what the hell is up with that? Every year "This and that is brash, he goes into situations without thinking" What's the appeal in this after so many times done? Oh and no, Ezio didn't have any development. People don't care about development, just a character who gives them the fantasy of being boss. Don't nobody bring up Ezio and development, no need for this to go off-topic.

What a character needs is an out of the comfort zone type. AC II, ACB, AC IV and ACU. Stripping the characters in these games of everything, they're the same archetype. They spout "witty" one liners, they joke a lot, they make fun of dangerous situations..etc they're basically Nathan Drake. That's 4 games out of 7, so I believe that's quite enough of that character archetype. R*'s games succeed a lot because they're ALL different. Carl Johnson is different from Tommy Vercetti. Michael Townley is different from Trevor. John Marston is different from Niko Bellic. They step out of their comfort zones and craft great stories with so many different colors of characters. They're confident in their ability to craft a quality story through ANY type of avatar.

I don't doubt that Victory's leading man will be just another "brash", charismatic type of guy who makes witty one liners. So it feels pretty pointless to suggest anything right now, or ever. As, really, Ubisoft has been doing nothing but please the larger fanbase.



They do so because they have TIME!!!!!

Because if there is something that dearly suffers from annualization aside from the performance, is the story.......

Assassin_M
12-17-2014, 08:18 PM
They do so because they have TIME!!!!!

Because if there is something that dearly suffers from annualization aside from the performance, is the story.......
Time is there for conceptualization. These games are developed in 3-4 years. Everything in conceptualization has a lot of time. Art work, research...etc. Story is in that space too. So the problem is not time, really. You'd be absolutely correct if we're talking the game itself but story, setting, protagonist..etc are all decided really really early on.

Matknapers18
12-17-2014, 08:21 PM
They do so because they have TIME!!!!!

Because if there is something that dearly suffers from annualization aside from the performance, is the story.......

Agreed. I feel like the stories are gradually becoming worse every year. And nowadays the gaming community demands a good story. It used to be all about gameplay but now story is a crucial element. With games like last of us out there, in contrast, AC stories are absolutely awful. No depth, a lifeless cast, no investment in the story.

Im not asking for a masterpiece that brings me to tears, I don't expect that. But Ubisoft really need to step up their game if they want AC to survive.

Hans684
12-17-2014, 08:30 PM
And the we need sequences with at least 8-10 missions.

Don't make sequesters with 1-3 missions, the stories is just getting shorter and shorter.

KneeDragr
12-17-2014, 08:31 PM
I think it could use some classic 'Bond' esque humor, i.e. main character being too suave for his own good, women fawning over him enough to cause a chuckle, wise cracks and puns that appeal to intellectuals. But only in very rare moments so they dont become routine, like maybe one instance every 3-4 hours of play time. Even having him say in a polite voice 'pardon' very occasionally when he callously chucks some woman aside when running through the streets would be quite funny.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 08:31 PM
Agreed. I feel like the stories are gradually becoming worse every year. And nowadays the gaming community demands a good story. It used to be all about gameplay but now story is a crucial element. With games like last of us out there, in contrast, AC stories are absolutely awful. No depth, a lifeless cast, no investment in the story.

Im not asking for a masterpiece that brings me to tears, I don't expect that. But Ubisoft really need to step up their game if they want AC to survive.

I disagree.

I think the stories keep getting better if you'd ask me.

Every character doesn't always need Charisma and a 1489957335 amount of side characters for a story to be good.

Assassin_M
12-17-2014, 08:39 PM
I think it could use some classic 'Bond' esque humor, i.e. main character being too suave for his own good, women fawning over him enough to cause a chuckle, wise cracks and puns that appeal to intellectuals. But only in very rare moments so they dont become routine, like maybe one instance every 3-4 hours of play time. Even having him say in a polite voice 'pardon' very occasionally when he callously chucks some woman aside when running through the streets would be quite funny.
Oh yeah, like we didnt get enough of that.


Agreed. I feel like the stories are gradually becoming worse every year.
I disagree. I thought the stories have been consistently getting better since AC II. ACB was not much improvement but at least Ezio actually progressed. ACR was amazing in that it showed Ezio to not be the invincible god that he was previously and that he does make mistakes. AC III's was a mess but the narrative itself was amazing, AC IV was awesome too. I don't know about Unity yet.

HDinHB
12-17-2014, 08:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHgpklQc34I

haha, I love this movie.

Since we'll be in England, shouldn't we have a 19th Century version of James Bond. A cool, cold, competent, confident, charming professional killer and spy. Which James Bond (from Connery to Craig to the novels or any combination) is open to discussion.

Not (necessarily) an employee of the government (but it would be a nice change to have an Assassin with a day job, like Ezio's father). Probably ex-military.

Impeccably dressed, with a top hat and walking stick that double as weapons. And a poison cravat pin. And a cravat that can be used to garotte.

A pipe-smoker (tobacco or maybe occasionally opium). Maybe the pipe shoots poison darts?


Even having him say in a polite voice 'pardon' very occasionally when he callously chucks some woman aside when running through the streets would be quite funny.

I've wanted this, especially with the "gentle push" feature, or in the older games when knocking a box out of a courier's hands would result in a massive guard attack. Just a simple "sorry" would have prevented so much unnecessary bloodshed.

Matknapers18
12-17-2014, 08:55 PM
I disagree. I think the stories keep getting better if you'd ask me.

Really? I found the stories in the latest games kinda weak. Maybe its just because my expectations are higher than what they were at the time of the Ezio trilogy. Seems like games in general are improving in story as time passes and I'm expecting more from AC. But you can't deny that the AC stories are getting shorter, and thats a problem in my opinion.


Every character doesn't always need Charisma and a 1489957335 amount of side characters for a story to be good.

I never said that. And I actually agree, Im tired of the 'charismatic' trait, Ubisoft need to realise that characters can be likeable without being witty, charismatic cheese balls.

Hans684
12-17-2014, 09:02 PM
Or an Hannibal like character, cold and calculative and expert psychologist. Manipulating and moving up in ranks while having a dark secret.

Coheed1989
12-17-2014, 09:02 PM
They should really just give up. 2 and Black Flag have been the only enjoyable ones.

MegaRock35
12-17-2014, 09:03 PM
A new Assassin protagonist needs Darby as the writer :U

I'd be interested in seeing an Assassin protagonist sorta like Bellec was supposed to be. A lot of people really liked him and thought he was so great, so I'm inclined to think that Ubi failed to get the point across. Give us, then, a serious, single-minded Assassin protagonist unquestionably dedicated to the creed, then show us why that's so dangerous and self-destructive. It'd be interesting to see if people are still in favor of the methods of an Assassin like him if they actually get to play the protagonist slaughtering their allies and friends "for the greater good" only to leave them unable to rally the survivors against the Templars and spelling doom for that branch of Assassins. "Congratulations, you're a broken shell of a person who destroyed their own life's work out of an inability to compromise. Have a nice lonely death knowing what a terrible person you are!" Of course, since that's taking Bellec and putting him in Shay's role, I'd rather we not see that exact case for a while. There's probably a more original way to do it, anyway.

Sort of similar but less depressing idea: a semi-reverse of the Ezio/Edward/Shay/Arno character progression. Instead of being too carefree and irresponsible at the start, they're too brooding and aloof and distant. Like, they're very stiff and rigid, no fun and all business, and it runs them ragged. They have a strained relationship with their allies and such, because they're near unapproachable due to how hardened they are. Over the course of the game they realize that dedication to the Brotherhood doesn't require them to sacrifice personal happiness and such. Thus, they become more friendly and able to relax (though that doesn't mean they have to be less serious about their work and start making wisecracks or whatever). It's not a super original arc, when considering all media as a whole, but I don't think we've seen one quite like that in AC. I think it suits the Assassins, too, as they represent the "Chaos" side of things, and they are overall more idealistic about people as a whole. It's dirty work they do, sure, but they really believe they are helping people, so they should be more optimistic about what they're doing. No need to be so grim and bitter all the time.

You can probably tell why I'm not a fiction writer, but basically we need Assassins with flaws without being so close to past characters.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 09:11 PM
Really? I found the stories in the latest games kinda weak. Maybe its just because my expectations are higher than what they were at the time of the Ezio trilogy. Seems like games in general are improving in story as time passes and I'm expecting more from AC. But you can't deny that the AC stories are getting shorter, and thats a problem in my opinion..

Yes, they are getting shorter...

But I think the quality is getting better each year.

But I respect your opinion. Different strokes for Different folks, right? ;)



I never said that. And I actually agree, Im tired of the 'charismatic' trait, Ubisoft need to realise that characters can be likeable without being witty, charismatic cheese balls.

I know you didn't say that...I just said that to make a point. :p

And I agree. ^^

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 09:20 PM
Do you believe this "female lead" fisaco is because of Ubi's failure ( in my opinion) to write a good protagonist in Aveline?

Maybe they're afraid the same will happen again?

Regarding the topic, I'm not against having one.

The problem with Aveline is the writers were so hung up on her gender and race that they simply forgot to make her human. This is why they need a female writer specifically. For instance, the whole disguise mechanic - completely unecessary. Didn't add anything to the gameplay except to highlight her race and gender. The 'slave persona' highlighted her 'blackness'. The 'lady' persona highlighted that she was, uh, a lady. They just couldn't get past it. They needed to write a character that had spark, charisma and had a real human story. Instead they wrote a 'black female' character and tried to pass that premise off as a personality.

ETA: They didn't put any effort into her game because they didn't think it would sell well. The marketing was poor, the gameplay was dire ad repetitive and they 'tested it out' on a PS Vita before bringing it to the main consoles.

Shahkulu101
12-17-2014, 09:22 PM
The problem with Aveline is the writers were so hung up on her gender and race that they simply forgot to make her human. This is why they need a female writer specifically. For instance, the whole disguise mechanic - completely unecessary. Didn't add anything to the gameplay except to highlight her race and gender. The 'slave persona' highlighted her 'blackness'. The 'lady' persona highlighted that she was, uh, a lady. They just couldn't get past it. They needed to write a character that had spark, charisma and had a real human story. Instead they wrote a 'black female' character and tried to pass that premise off as a personality.

The lead writer of Liberation was a woman.

EmptyCrustacean
12-17-2014, 09:25 PM
The lead writer of Liberation was a woman.

Yes, but she didn't implement the lady/slave persona mechanic. She was only writing for the direction she was given.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 09:26 PM
The lead writer of Liberation was a woman.

I thought the lead writer was Richard...or did he just help? :rolleyes:

Matknapers18
12-17-2014, 09:29 PM
But I respect your opinion. Different strokes for Different folks, right? ;)

Yep! oh and by the way, apologies in advance for going off topic, Minato is also my favourite Naruto character xD

D.I.D.
12-17-2014, 09:36 PM
Here's another one of my absurdly long posts that I'll be lucky to have even one person read. Have not played Rogue, don't know what Shay is like.

I've always had a problem with the James Bond/Han Solo/Luke Skywalker slant of the AC protagonists. I have a problem with Ubisoft's need to make them into unequivocal heroes, when their actions fly in the face of that position.

I think some of the team knows this. I'm glad that we're not being served messiahs anymore. While Arno feels the most human so far, due in a large part to the excellent modelling and animation work, I think Darby McDevitt came the closest to depicting the consequences of the protagonist's life within the story of AC4. He saw the need to make Edward into a high-stakes gambler in order to change his life, and then had him lose when he thought he was winning, supplying complications to the adrenalin rush of his new lifestyle.

That was good, but he was still attempting to be a hero, and I'm not convinced that many assassins would aim for that. I'd like to see a leap away from those anointed heroic characters altogether. Arno's wit was played very nicely at times, for any other character in any other game, but there's a danger of running into something that stand-up comedians are keen to point out about James Bond, and in particular Sean Connery's classic James Bond: the one who people remember as the epitome of wit, charm, and stylishness.

There's a fight in Goldfinger that's typical of Bond. He's in his rooms, kissing a beautiful woman. An assailant is creeping up behind Bond to smash his head with a blunt object. Bond sees the attacker's reflection in the woman's eyeball, and manoeuvres her body so that the full force of the blow comes down on her skull instead. A fight ensues, leading to the bathroom, where Bond sends his foe backwards into a full bathtub. Bond throws an electric fan into the water, and the enemy's face and body contort horribly as he dies. Clouds fill the air, a mixture of water vapour and burnt flesh, as Bond unblinkingly smirks and delivers the punchline: "Shocking". He grabs his coat and gun to walk out of the apartment past the woman, who is groaning incoherently and clearly requires medical attention.

It's at this point in the routine that the comedian will point out that 60s Bond is not a cool guy; he is a psychopath. 50 years later, and that's Ezio, Arno, and to an extent Edward: narcissistic, laughing at their own jokes, and almost completely unaffected by an insane amount of murder. It makes a mockery of the idea of putting Jack the Ripper into Victory, as so many people suggest. Really? We're going to hunt down Jack the Ripper and punish him? I'm surprised more people don't see the moral problem here. I'm not suggesting that every assassin should be tortured by their actions, or that every assassin needs to be all-out evil. I just think more attention needs to be paid to how the character feels. You kill civilians because people tell you to do it. You take the money, you sleep well, and you'll do it again tomorrow. What thoughts are in your head, and what do other people think when they see you?

If your character retains a "nice guy" appeal despite the nature of the work, then I think that should be used to sow deliberate discomfort. There ought to be something quite chilling about the contrast between the fake normality the person presents and the odd detachment from their secret violent side. Maybe it is possible to do this and be a nice person, but I bet it would be quite a tightrope to walk. At least one story ought to use that tension. What if your character thinks he/she is a hero, but they're dead wrong? What if your character is never "good", but is responsible for results that are "good"?

If you look at Sean Harris's performance as the assassin Micheletto in the 2011 TV series, The Borgias, you'll see a character type that we've never seen in AC but one that makes perfect sense. Micheletto appears as something completely unlike the other murderers around him, because he's the only professional killer. What he lacks in charisma is filled out by a really unnerving intelligence, and it's a kind of animal intelligence beyond moral considerations: the air of a snake, or a weasel. If he was to look at you, he would look at you for too long, and you'd wish he wasn't. There's something not right about Micheletto, and you're never quite sure what it is. He's not manipulative or gleeful about the pain of others, and is probably not a psychopath, but he never flinches from murder or torture. He takes death seriously, and he does understand human emotions, even if he rarely displays them. Trust is very important to him, and the more you saw of him the more you realised that trust had taken the place of love in Micheletto's life. Eventually you learn how he came into this work, and there's a tragedy for in wait for him when he starts to realise what his new status can and can't buy. The writers never had to try too hard to force Micheletto into the audience's affections, and if you talk to anyone who watched the series then it's very likely that Micheletto was their favourite character despite all the terrible things he did.

That effortlessness is really important. The current need to give us a hero, and to make us like that hero, places a stifling set of restrictions on who that person can be. Micheletto is just one example of a character type for a professional assassin, but then you also have to wonder about what kind of person gives the orders, and how they control people like him. We get the same speeches about brotherhood, codes and honour, and every single time we see those flimsy tenets breached. If this was real, there'd be a lot more than a list of rules to the business of maintaining authority over such dangerous employees. There are sources of tension here that aren't being explored.

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 09:36 PM
Yep! oh and by the way, apologies in advance for going off topic, Minato is also my favourite Naruto character xD

Oh, its alright mate.

Happens all the time here. ;)

And awesome. ^^

What about Konan? :rolleyes:

Hans684
12-17-2014, 09:43 PM
The need for speed, he must be fast and furious.

Matknapers18
12-17-2014, 09:52 PM
Oh, its alright mate.

Happens all the time here. ;)

And awesome. ^^

What about Konan? :rolleyes:

I never really felt that attached to Konan, but I'm not sure why. I totally dig her paper justu's but never really liked her as a character. I leaned toward Yahiko and Nagato more to be honest, Nagato is definitely one of my favourite characters :D Do you read the manga?

Namikaze_17
12-17-2014, 09:56 PM
I never really felt that attached to Konan, but I'm not sure why. I totally dig her paper justu's but never really liked her as a character. I leaned toward Yahiko and Nagato more to be honest, Nagato is definitely one of my favourite characters :D Do you read the manga?

Aww... :( :rolleyes: :cool:

I meant looks though...

Yeah, Nagato's cool.

And I read the manga until it ended. ^^

ze_topazio
12-17-2014, 09:59 PM
There's a fight in Goldfinger that's typical of Bond. He's in his rooms, kissing a beautiful woman. An assailant is creeping up behind Bond to smash his head with a blunt object. Bond sees the attacker's reflection in the woman's eyeball, and manoeuvres her body so that the full force of the blow comes down on her skull instead. A fight ensues, leading to the bathroom, where Bond sends his foe backwards into a full bathtub. Bond throws an electric fan into the water, and the enemy's face and body contort horribly as he dies. Clouds fill the air, a mixture of water vapour and burnt flesh, as Bond unblinkingly smirks and delivers the punchline: "Shocking". He grabs his coat and gun to walk out of the apartment past the woman, who is groaning incoherently and clearly requires medical attention.

It's at this point in the routine that the comedian will point out that 60s Bond is not a cool guy; he is a psychopath. 50 years later, and that's Ezio, Arno, and to an extent Edward: narcissistic, laughing at their own jokes, and almost completely unaffected by an insane amount of murder. It makes a mockery of the idea of putting Jack the Ripper into Victory, as so many people suggest. Really? We're going to hunt down Jack the Ripper and punish him? I'm surprised more people don't see the moral problem here. I'm not suggesting that every assassin should be tortured by their actions, or that every assassin needs to be all-out evil. I just think more attention needs to be paid to how the character feels. You kill civilians because people tell you to do it. You take the money, you sleep well, and you'll do it again tomorrow. What thoughts are in your head, and what do other people think when they see you?

If your character retains a "nice guy" appeal despite the nature of the work, then I think that should be used to sow deliberate discomfort. There ought to be something quite chilling about the contrast between the fake normality the person presents and the odd detachment from their secret violent side. Maybe it is possible to do this and be a nice person, but I bet it would be quite a tightrope to walk. At least one story ought to use that tension. What if your character thinks he/she is a hero, but they're dead wrong? What if your character is never "good", but is responsible for results that are "good"?


If I remember correctly that woman was one of the villains and Bond knew it.

Personally I like psychos as you put it, characters full of angst and emoness for being a soldier/killer/whatever annoys me, change your job already if you can't handle it.

LoyalACFan
12-17-2014, 10:01 PM
I really just want a well-written story. I don't have any special criteria for who/what the protagonist is. A female protag would be cool, but given the leaked Victory stuff that's a lost cause for the next installment. I'd much prefer a more cerebral, methodical, older Assassin (maybe late 30s/early 40s at the beginning) but if we get another Ezio clone, I'm actually okay with that as long as he's well-developed with an engaging story. I've said it before, but I'll say it again; Unity's story was absolutely pathetic. It was nothing. Zero character development. A few sad stares at the end does not a well-rounded character make.

Assassin_M
12-17-2014, 10:04 PM
Here's another one of my absurdly long posts that I'll be lucky to have even one person read. Have not played Rogue, don't know what Shay is like.

I've always had a problem with the James Bond/Han Solo/Luke Skywalker slant of the AC protagonists. I have a problem with Ubisoft's need to make them into unequivocal heroes, when their actions fly in the face of that position.

I think some of the team knows this. I'm glad that we're not being served messiahs anymore. While Arno feels the most human so far, due in a large part to the excellent modelling and animation work, I think Darby McDevitt came the closest to depicting the consequences of the protagonist's life within the story of AC4. He saw the need to make Edward into a high-stakes gambler in order to change his life, and then had him lose when he thought he was winning, supplying complications to the adrenalin rush of his new lifestyle.

That was good, but he was still attempting to be a hero, and I'm not convinced that many assassins would aim for that. I'd like to see a leap away from those anointed heroic characters altogether. Arno's wit was played very nicely at times, for any other character in any other game, but there's a danger of running into something that stand-up comedians are keen to point out about James Bond, and in particular Sean Connery's classic James Bond: the one who people remember as the epitome of wit, charm, and stylishness.

There's a fight in Goldfinger that's typical of Bond. He's in his rooms, kissing a beautiful woman. An assailant is creeping up behind Bond to smash his head with a blunt object. Bond sees the attacker's reflection in the woman's eyeball, and manoeuvres her body so that the full force of the blow comes down on her skull instead. A fight ensues, leading to the bathroom, where Bond sends his foe backwards into a full bathtub. Bond throws an electric fan into the water, and the enemy's face and body contort horribly as he dies. Clouds fill the air, a mixture of water vapour and burnt flesh, as Bond unblinkingly smirks and delivers the punchline: "Shocking". He grabs his coat and gun to walk out of the apartment past the woman, who is groaning incoherently and clearly requires medical attention.

It's at this point in the routine that the comedian will point out that 60s Bond is not a cool guy; he is a psychopath. 50 years later, and that's Ezio, Arno, and to an extent Edward: narcissistic, laughing at their own jokes, and almost completely unaffected by an insane amount of murder. It makes a mockery of the idea of putting Jack the Ripper into Victory, as so many people suggest. Really? We're going to hunt down Jack the Ripper and punish him? I'm surprised more people don't see the moral problem here. I'm not suggesting that every assassin should be tortured by their actions, or that every assassin needs to be all-out evil. I just think more attention needs to be paid to how the character feels. You kill civilians because people tell you to do it. You take the money, you sleep well, and you'll do it again tomorrow. What thoughts are in your head, and what do other people think when they see you?

If your character retains a "nice guy" appeal despite the nature of the work, then I think that should be used to sow deliberate discomfort. There ought to be something quite chilling about the contrast between the fake normality the person presents and the odd detachment from their secret violent side. Maybe it is possible to do this and be a nice person, but I bet it would be quite a tightrope to walk. At least one story ought to use that tension. What if your character thinks he/she is a hero, but they're dead wrong? What if your character is never "good", but is responsible for results that are "good"?

If you look at Sean Harris's performance as the assassin Micheletto in the 2011 TV series, The Borgias, you'll see a character type that we've never seen in AC but one that makes perfect sense. Micheletto appears as something completely unlike the other murderers around him, because he's the only professional killer. What he lacks in charisma is filled out by a really unnerving intelligence, and it's a kind of animal intelligence beyond moral considerations: the air of a snake, or a weasel. If he was to look at you, he would look at you for too long, and you'd wish he wasn't. There's something not right about Micheletto, and you're never quite sure what it is. He's not manipulative or gleeful about the pain of others, and is probably not a psychopath, but he never flinches from murder or torture. He takes death seriously, and he does understand human emotions, even if he rarely displays them. Trust is very important to him, and the more you saw of him the more you realised that trust had taken the place of love in Micheletto's life. Eventually you learn how he came into this work, and there's a tragedy for in wait for him when he starts to realise what his new status can and can't buy. The writers never had to try too hard to force Micheletto into the audience's affections, and if you talk to anyone who watched the series then it's very likely that Micheletto was their favourite character despite all the terrible things he did.

That effortlessness is really important. The current need to give us a hero, and to make us like that hero, places a stifling set of restrictions on who that person can be. Micheletto is just one example of a character type for a professional assassin, but then you also have to wonder about what kind of person gives the orders, and how they control people like him. We get the same speeches about brotherhood, codes and honour, and every single time we see those flimsy tenets breached. If this was real, there'd be a lot more than a list of rules to the business of maintaining authority over such dangerous employees. There are sources of tension here that aren't being explored.
Truer words have not been said. Often times, people accept such archetypes because, obviously, the mass market is simplistic. They keep talking about how "human" Ezio and his story are, when in fact it isnt. It's the most steaming pile of BS ever. Yeah, sure, the fantasy and over the top-ness is nice. I understand why it's done, doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it as good story telling. In Embers, Ezio talks about the pain of being an Assassin but he never showed any pain. He made light of it a lot of times in AC II even.
It's not fun anymore, depth is automatically voided when the moral dilemma is poof. gone. The moral dilemma is SO gone, that people find it okay to add Jack the Ripper and have us hunt him down. Heck, doing some murder mysteries in ACU felt awkward. The description of bodies reads "grizzly" and "brutally" and Arno's the one writing those descriptions and then I'm thinking "well...you shove swords down people's throats"

There's a HUGE disconnect.


They needed to write a character that had spark, charisma and had a real human story.
Because having charisma is the only human quality. More human than say, exploring the struggles of black slaves of the time or how women were not given as much privileges as men. Mate, Aveline is probably one of the most human characters Ubisoft have created. She actually questioned the methods of the brotherhood, we saw her pain at the loss of her mother and then saw her struggle with the paranoia of her mentor, who was the closest thing to a parent now after her father died. It's like you paid no attention to the story in Liberation.

Dhaise
12-17-2014, 10:40 PM
Female would be nice, if only to change the pace a bit. I'd have liked to have seen more Aveline or Elise.


I'd also like to see drastically different locales, the middle east/africa, the pacific rim...places where the architecture isn't automatically European.


The modern day story is/has been a confusing non-issue of a mess since Desmonds conclusion IMO. It needs some focus, or dropped alltogether. the interludes dont bring anything to the table anymore.

VestigialLlama4
12-17-2014, 10:44 PM
I guess they should find an Assassin who is actually as anarchic, roguish and anti-conformist as the Creed states. My main problem with the Assassins is that for all their talk of "Radical Freedom", they are all so...middle-class.

Some of the Initiates Altair-II set are different, I will admit. But so far the only Assassins who I actualy feel are outsiders and free spirits are the Caribbean Assassins - you have a runaway slave, a cross-dressing Pirate lady and a self-destructive moron who composes love letters to his suffering wife while sleeping around whenever he's drunk, and they all take orders from a rational, calm and kind Mayan Guy, it's a 60s Drug High come to life!!!

The point is that these games are set in an ancient era so they could have been really daring. Like I don't know make Ezio bisexual and make out with Leonardo(who was clearly in love with him). I mean homosexuality and bisexuality was actually quite public in that era(even tentatively condoned by a liberal/decadent Church). Or they made Connor unrealistically puritanical for no reason other than idealizing a Kanienkahaka guy.

The other thing of course is make an Assassin really poor, like he's illiterate or something and that the Assassins teach him to read and write. That was an experience common throughout history. Like have us play a Prostitute turned Assassin, you know something that actually gives us a point of view from the real underclass.

The main thing I want is...two or three player characters. I want to explore events and sequences from different viewpoints, develop larger scale and more ambition and creativity.

Altair1789
12-17-2014, 10:49 PM
For me, he needs to be like Altaïr and Connor. Definitely NOT like Arno


I really just want a well-written story. I don't have any special criteria for who/what the protagonist is. A female protag would be cool, but given the leaked Victory stuff that's a lost cause for the next installment. I'd much prefer a more cerebral, methodical, older Assassin (maybe late 30s/early 40s at the beginning) but if we get another Ezio clone, I'm actually okay with that as long as he's well-developed with an engaging story. I've said it before, but I'll say it again; Unity's story was absolutely pathetic. It was nothing. Zero character development. A few sad stares at the end does not a well-rounded character make.

You're right, the protagonist won't matter as much as the in game plot and overarching plot

Brownsnakeeyes
12-17-2014, 11:02 PM
ok I read to page two...


Why not just let us make our own character. Male or female. and for god sake the dlc could always be more missions. like detective or coop.

But one thing I will be watching for is development time. If it comes out next year there's no way in hell Ill be buying it.

Assassin_M
12-17-2014, 11:05 PM
Why not just let us make our own character. Male or female.
That's not how AC works.

EmbodyingSeven5
12-17-2014, 11:15 PM
1.assassin with parents that are still alive...... and are decent parents........ seriously almost every main character has dead or absent parents. its a cliché. would be interesting to see if young people hide the fact they are assassins from their parents. like Aveline did
2. feel like each assassin besides ezio and edward( don't know about arno) is a cold silent type stereotype to some point. still love them though.
3. give characters weaknesses and fears.
4. make them emotionally likeable. some games are very good at make loveable characters you care about and just might cry over. I barely flinched when Mario or Connors mother died. or even Haytham. or any Templar I've killed........ ever.........
5. female character. Would like to see reaction from feminist when an AC launched with only one female main character everyone played as during co-op.

EmbodyingSeven5
12-17-2014, 11:16 PM
Why not just let us make our own character. Male or female.

wouldn't like that. cant think of one character I made that I felt emotionally attached to

LoyalACFan
12-17-2014, 11:19 PM
ok I read to page two...


Why not just let us make our own character. Male or female.

Because it's impossible for a writer to tell a story about a character they didn't make. Given that AC is a historical game, they can't just tell the same story regardless of whether the protagonist was male or female like they could in Mass Effect or KOTOR where the genders are pretty much equal. A female protagonist is certainly doable for AC, but it's something that would have to be addressed pretty heavily in the narrative to feel believable. It would be a ridiculous amount of work for them to tell essentially two different stories depending on which gender you pick at the beginning. Not to mention it totally voids the Animus framing device.

EmptyCrustacean
12-18-2014, 12:18 AM
wouldn't like that. cant think of one character I made that I felt emotionally attached to

On a purely superficial level: one of the things that irritated me about Unity was the lack of visual identity with Arno. Because you had to customise in order to upgrade, Arno's intial look feels more like a Template. Furthermore, when we win special rewards like the 'Altair outfit' or the 'Ezio outfit' we're thrilled because we remember roaming around in them in previous games. Makes us all nostalgic. When we play victory what outfit of Arno's will we wear? Will it be the novice one he started out in? That is supposed to be inferior by definition so wouldn't work. Or will it be his Master Assassin outfit?

Altair1789
12-18-2014, 12:26 AM
On a purely superficial level: one of the things that irritated me about Unity was the lack of visual identity with Arno. Because you had to customise in order to upgrade, Arno's intial look feels more like a Template. Furthermore, when we win special rewards like the 'Altair outfit' or the 'Ezio outfit' we're thrilled because we remember roaming around in them in previous games. Makes us all nostalgic. When we play victory what outfit of Arno's will we wear? Will it be the novice one he started out in? That is supposed to be inferior by definition so wouldn't work. Or will it be his Master Assassin outfit?

This is another reason I want customization removed. I don't want a protagonist I like to be too customizable. Luckily, I didn't care at all for Arno, so having it this 1 game hasn't hurt me at all

Assassin_M
12-18-2014, 12:36 AM
Wow...I want customization to be removed. Now i'v seen everything.

Megas_Doux
12-18-2014, 12:39 AM
I find customization as a GREAT add, neither do I understand how is that such OPTION decreases your chance of relating with a character, but everyone is entitled to their opinion......

D.I.D.
12-18-2014, 01:05 AM
Truer words have not been said. Often times, people accept such archetypes because, obviously, the mass market is simplistic. They keep talking about how "human" Ezio and his story are, when in fact it isnt. It's the most steaming pile of BS ever. Yeah, sure, the fantasy and over the top-ness is nice. I understand why it's done, doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it as good story telling. In Embers, Ezio talks about the pain of being an Assassin but he never showed any pain. He made light of it a lot of times in AC II even. It's not fun anymore, depth is automatically voided when the moral dilemma is poof. gone. The moral dilemma is SO gone, that people find it okay to add Jack the Ripper and have us hunt him down. Heck, doing some murder mysteries in ACU felt awkward. The description of bodies reads "grizzly" and "brutally" and Arno's the one writing those descriptions and then I'm thinking "well...you shove swords down people's throats" There's a HUGE disconnect.*nods*I think the personalities this approach would produce would be a shock at first, but I reckon they would work for people once they saw the alternatives, and the new situations these characters could throw up. It would be especially interesting to me if they introduced a female assassin as the first character to play like this. I think most people would be expecting a pleasant character because games have led them to expect women in games to be built for very basic types of appeal (soft, pretty love interests, or hard-bodied, pretty Katniss-like badasses). A woman who is neither of those things, and makes the player think, "Hey, this game is kind of messed-up when you think about it" would be my dream situation for a woman assassin.

JustPlainQuirky
12-18-2014, 01:51 AM
That's not how AC works.

I said the same thing.

But in the survey I took for Unity they asked me if I would like the idea of choosing a male or female protagonist at the start

I was so confused

Assassin_M
12-18-2014, 01:52 AM
*nods*I think the personalities this approach would produce would be a shock at first, but I reckon they would work for people once they saw the alternatives, and the new situations these characters could throw up. It would be especially interesting to me if they introduced a female assassin as the first character to play like this. I think most people would be expecting a pleasant character because games have led them to expect women in games to be built for very basic types of appeal (soft, pretty love interests, or hard-bodied, pretty Katniss-like badasses). A woman who is neither of those things, and makes the player think, "Hey, this game is kind of messed-up when you think about it" would be my dream situation for a woman assassin.
Indeed. It'd be a shock and it'll be disturbing but such is real life, if they can manage to get the player to empathize and from there, craft a compelling narrative, it wont feel too weird for the player because they become the Avatar. They start caring about them.

I would totally love an approach like that to a female Assassin. They never utilized nor showed how murder can change someone nor how it would impact them. That'd be awesome to show with a female and the various effects could open a whole plethora of character archetypes to produce. Someone who takes pleasure in killing, perhaps it gives them some sort of gratification, someone who becomes jaded as they kill more...etc, just so many psychological exploration, we'v had enough psychos.

Assassin_M
12-18-2014, 01:57 AM
I said the same thing.

But in the survey I took for Unity they asked me if I would like the idea of choosing a male or female protagonist at the start

I was so confused
They'd have to be established characters then, or for coop maybe.

JustPlainQuirky
12-18-2014, 02:03 AM
It's probably just relieving two different ancestors.

Even less time for character development *clap clap*

Nah, it could work out if well executed

Minsooky
12-18-2014, 08:26 AM
Just better character development. I hesitate to say that I want an Asian assassin, or a female assassin because if these characters end up being developed poorly, or are developed just based on their gender or race, what's the point? It's going to be a bad character regardless of how "different" the assassin is from previous assassins, with the added bonus of being some godawful stereotype.

Like Aveline is biracial and female...but she wasn't well developed IMHO. Which irritates me because I did have some fun playing her (dat machete!). It's pointless to just create assassins just for the sake of making them a different race, gender, etc. without properly developing the character itself to make the character interesting or intriguing.

Tbqh though I would really like to play another female assassin. Or an Asian assassin would be cool. But I don't want to play them if they're not done right.

pirate1802
12-18-2014, 10:13 AM
A female character. It's about time Ubisoft. You cannot create token characters and shove them to DLCs/side games while keeping your main line of protagonists racially pure. :rolleyes:

Because yes, I'd like to see a change after 8 or 9 male protags. Because yes, that would make for a better game in my very subjective opinion,( which is not any more or less subjective than someone's preference for a good story, or a good modern day segment for example.)

Oh and people shouldn't come forward with the 'oh it's pandering to the majority demographic' argument, because I'm sure none of those people would support Ubi catering to the other sort of majority demographic (the casuals, which they are already doing). Artistic license and all that bullcrap doesn't impress me either because these people aren't after art. They are after making money. Sure they make money by making art, but as an artist I'd say something produced with the sole objective of earning money can't be qualified as art. This isn't art, so artistic license doesn't fly. A true artist would care zero about what people would think of him and produce only what his own heart desires. Are they such people? One would argue that if they were, we would already have seen a more diverse cast. Instead they hide behind majority demographic and dudebro mentality. I have the utmost respect for the devs but they aren't artists, hence artistic license doesn't enter the equation.

And the person who said he/she finds the preference of characters based on race/gender unfathomable, don't know where you are from, but I sure would jump with racially ignited joy if they suppose make the next protagonist an Indian woman (and I ain't even a woman.) and would buck in sadness if it's another white straight male dudebro. Because guess what? You identify more with people who speak your language/comes from your community/region. I live in a different region now than where I was born, and each time I hear people speaking with that peculiar accent of Hindi, my heart fill with joy. Same thing translates to games. When I heard the characters in Farcry 4 abusing in fluent Hindi, I felt connected to the world of the game. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that.

Yes, in a perfect world someone expressing distaste to white characters would be seen as racist. But we don't live in that perfect world. We live in one very visibly biased against characters from the minority community. You can't actually claim that that makes them racist, not after this many male protags. I actually defended Ubisoft's decision to yet again go with the white male protag when they unveiled Arno, but I find their position indefensible now. Sure, they don't have an obligation to do that, but they don't have an obligation to do a lot of things either, ones that fans demand. They are only obliged to make a good game, with or without a good story, with or without a modern day, with or without an interesting protag. But these are things that define a 'good' game in our very subjective opinions!

Zero_Regen
12-18-2014, 01:07 PM
Just better character development. I hesitate to say that I want an Asian assassin, or a female assassin because if these characters end up being developed poorly, or are developed just based on their gender or race, what's the point? It's going to be a bad character regardless of how "different" the assassin is from previous assassins, with the added bonus of being some godawful stereotype.

Like Aveline is biracial and female...but she wasn't well developed IMHO. Which irritates me because I did have some fun playing her (dat machete!). It's pointless to just create assassins just for the sake of making them a different race, gender, etc. without properly developing the character itself to make the character interesting or intriguing.

Tbqh though I would really like to play another female assassin. Or an Asian assassin would be cool. But I don't want to play them if they're not done right.

That's what it really comes down to. Arno was a good character IMO, but i wish his game was longer so we could see him evolve.

Zero_Regen
12-18-2014, 01:12 PM
On a purely superficial level: one of the things that irritated me about Unity was the lack of visual identity with Arno. Because you had to customise in order to upgrade, Arno's intial look feels more like a Template. Furthermore, when we win special rewards like the 'Altair outfit' or the 'Ezio outfit' we're thrilled because we remember roaming around in them in previous games. Makes us all nostalgic. When we play victory what outfit of Arno's will we wear? Will it be the novice one he started out in? That is supposed to be inferior by definition so wouldn't work. Or will it be his Master Assassin outfit?

While playing Unity i simply customized Arno for the Upgrade to my stats. Nothing looked as cool as the original robes to me. I can see where the difficulties would come up, but when i think of Arno i think about his original robes, not what i upgraded him with.

crusader_prophet
12-18-2014, 01:16 PM
That's what it really comes down to. Arno was a good character IMO, but i wish his game was longer so we could see him evolve.

A female Eastern Indian Assassin (modeled after young Aishwarya Rai)

Minsooky
12-18-2014, 01:39 PM
A female Eastern Indian Assassin (modeled after young Aishwarya Rai)

Why her?

Fatal-Feit
12-18-2014, 01:55 PM
To be unique, develop, and have a story that's morally grey. It doesn't have to tackle the theme like AC:3 and RO, but keep it present like in AC:1, IV, and Unity. Everything else are for the developers to decide.

Regarding an earlier topic. I don't care if it's male or female, black or white. I played Liberation and my problems arrived from other stuff, non-Aveline gender/racial shenanigans. Being a bad-*** Assassin and immersing myself in Louisiana was no problem at all. When I think back on Liberation, I don't think about the race or gender of Aveline, I just think that the game could have been better and Aveline, as a character, could have had a better story arc.

ze_topazio
12-18-2014, 02:01 PM
Needs fabulous hair.

crusader_prophet
12-18-2014, 02:22 PM
To be unique, develop, and have a story that's morally grey. It doesn't have to tackle the theme like AC:3 and RO, but keep it present like in AC:1, IV, and Unity. Everything else are for the developers to decide.

Regarding an earlier topic. I don't care if it's male or female, black or white. I played Liberation and my problems arrived from other stuff, non-Aveline gender/racial shenanigans. Being a bad-*** Assassin and immersing myself in Louisiana was no problem at all. When I think back on Liberation, I don't think about the race or gender of Aveline, I just think that the game could have been better and Aveline, as a character, could have had a better story arc.

Agreed, my thoughts are along the same lines. They should not force features in the game just to be politically correct. Instead they should if the story/gameplay begets it to be.

pirate1802
12-19-2014, 06:51 AM
They should not 'force' anything. That their own protagonist group (Assassins) supports ldeals like freedom, diversity bla bla bla, means that we should have seen a lot more diverse cast of protagonists than we have. It is perfectly normal for a game like Uncharted to have someone like Nate star in it for the next 9000 games. For a game like Assassins Creed? That juggles protagonists and professes ideals like freedom and diversity? It raises too many eyebrows.

I-Like-Pie45
12-19-2014, 06:52 AM
Feet outfits

STDlyMcStudpants
12-19-2014, 07:43 AM
I know something he doesn't need, daddy issues... I think it's about time we have another Altair, someone that goes straight to the point...

you mean Shay? :D

STDlyMcStudpants
12-19-2014, 07:45 AM
I want to see another Connor/Adawale type.. a character that is REALLY a product of the time
Sorry, but Altair.. Ezio... Arno...Shay... all generic.. Edward has a dash of being a product of his time.. but i felt they didnt emphasize it enough

Fatal-Feit
12-19-2014, 07:59 AM
I want to see another Connor/Adawale type.. a character that is REALLY a product of the time
Sorry, but Altair.. Ezio... Arno...Shay... all generic.. Edward has a dash of being a product of his time.. but i felt they didnt emphasize it enough

Ezio was a romantic. A womanizer in Renaissance Italy. Florence, Venice, COME ON! Casanova! You don't have to read many romantic novels.

Arno's character and story is in conjuncture with the theme and setting of Unity. ''Dogma leads to fanaticism.'' That statement revolves everyone, including himself. The Reign of Terror, Bellec, Elise, Templars, and Assassins, the entirety of France during the French Revolution was victim to it.

Edward's character started off as a selfish rogue and throughout his story in the west indies during the Golden Age of Piracy, he has let everyone down for the sake of riches. It really doesn't get any better than that. It's the last 3 sequences where he changed for the better, which was during its end.

Namikaze_17
12-19-2014, 08:52 AM
A completely new personality/story.

No Charismatic Casnova...

No "Boring" Stoic...

No Daddy issues...

No Revenge/Redemption format...

No prophecy BS...

Just something entirely original that will actually make me care about the character and his story.


And I know I've said this a million times, but it's because I really care. -__-

GunnerGalactico
12-19-2014, 10:06 AM
This is a bit of a hopeless dream. For once, I would like to see a strong female character that is quick witted and intelligent, not a femme fatale type and doesn't use her looks to charm or seduce men.... like that's ever going to happen :rolleyes:

crusader_prophet
12-19-2014, 11:30 AM
a Break !

crusader_prophet
12-19-2014, 11:34 AM
I want to see another Connor/Adawale type.. a character that is REALLY a product of the time
Sorry, but Altair.. Ezio... Arno...Shay... all generic.. Edward has a dash of being a product of his time.. but i felt they didnt emphasize it enough

Altair is an eternal legend who spans across time and not just a product of his time. Period.

LoyalACFan
12-19-2014, 12:13 PM
I want to see another Connor/Adawale type.. a character that is REALLY a product of the time
Sorry, but Altair.. Ezio... Arno...Shay... all generic.. Edward has a dash of being a product of his time.. but i felt they didnt emphasize it enough

I thought Edward's story was connected perfectly to his era. The Golden Age of Piracy was a lot like the heyday of bank robbers in the Depression; a small group of criminals who were on top of the world for a short while, but all died young and violently. Edward's character developed believably as a direct result of that brief success and rapid fall. I thought it was emphasized really well, actually. Darby refrained from absolutely bashing us over the heads with it like they did with Connor and Adewale.

lothario-da-be
12-19-2014, 12:37 PM
I don't really care what kind of character a new assassin is, as long as it is a great character with a descent story. I don't mind an ezio 2.0 as long as he is still a good character. Arno could have been such a character but hes story was so rushed that he has so few dialogue to give him an actual personality. It feels to me like they cut so much scenes out of the game.
It doesn't matter what kind of character they do next, they have to make sure the character is well executed.