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pinche_bolillo
01-09-2004, 05:26 PM
I'm pretty much still a noob. (I came here around thanksgiving 2003 and did not fly any il-2 series game) I flew the ki 84 mostly, but after a little over a month I got very curious about 109g thru 109k series planes out turning/looping me at low speeds. it happened quite often, but not everybody was able to do it. so I am going to assume that the guys in 109g series or later (its almost always a 109k4) that I could out turn me were not using trim and that the 109 drivers that were out turning me were using trim. I never use trim in the ki-84.

so the other day I flew a 109k-4 all day. I was able to out turn and loop the ki-84 with ease as long as I used trim and was at slow speed. at higher speeds I remembered that the ki-84 blacks out very easily, so even at high speeds it was easy to stay with a ki-84 because he would black out and I didnt.

so at slow speeds to medium speeds in this game, the 109g thru 109k series can out turn planes that historicaly they could not. I have read what was printed in books that was taken from hundreds of pilots that flew these planes, and the majority agree on the fact that the g series 109 and later should be out turned by planes in the spitfire ix class. but in this game I can out turn the 51, la 7, ki 84 while I am using a 109k4, once again this is while I am using trim and flying at low to medium speeds.

im just making an observation and I do not expect it to get fixed. I can live with it. I just thought I would like to point it out.

pinche_bolillo
01-09-2004, 05:26 PM
I'm pretty much still a noob. (I came here around thanksgiving 2003 and did not fly any il-2 series game) I flew the ki 84 mostly, but after a little over a month I got very curious about 109g thru 109k series planes out turning/looping me at low speeds. it happened quite often, but not everybody was able to do it. so I am going to assume that the guys in 109g series or later (its almost always a 109k4) that I could out turn me were not using trim and that the 109 drivers that were out turning me were using trim. I never use trim in the ki-84.

so the other day I flew a 109k-4 all day. I was able to out turn and loop the ki-84 with ease as long as I used trim and was at slow speed. at higher speeds I remembered that the ki-84 blacks out very easily, so even at high speeds it was easy to stay with a ki-84 because he would black out and I didnt.

so at slow speeds to medium speeds in this game, the 109g thru 109k series can out turn planes that historicaly they could not. I have read what was printed in books that was taken from hundreds of pilots that flew these planes, and the majority agree on the fact that the g series 109 and later should be out turned by planes in the spitfire ix class. but in this game I can out turn the 51, la 7, ki 84 while I am using a 109k4, once again this is while I am using trim and flying at low to medium speeds.

im just making an observation and I do not expect it to get fixed. I can live with it. I just thought I would like to point it out.

tagert
01-09-2004, 05:57 PM
define turn

TAGERT

Cajun76
01-09-2004, 06:24 PM
The 109 could historically outturn a P-51 at low speed. The P-51 was not a plane to be going slow in. It's wings are optimized for high speed, and it dosen't do so well at low speed dogfighting. The 109 has a powerful engine in a small airframe, and should be good at low to medium speed engagemants, powering through turns with high accelaration. The difference comes in during high speed turning, where the P-51 will outurn and outmanuever the 109. All this is my opinion, based on reading and pilot accounts. I've never flown either. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

Meanwhile, in the 20th century:

BOOM! Yeah, Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my T-Bolt!! It's has 8 .50cals and 2000lbs+ worth of bombs and rockets. Republic's top of the line. You can find this in the Kick A$$ department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Farmingdale, Long Island and Evansville, Indiana. Retails for about $82,997.95. It's got a turbo-supercharger, all metal control surfaces with blunt nosed ailerons, and a hair trigger. That's right, shop smart, shop Republic. YOU GOT THAT!? Now I swear, the next one of you primates, E-ven TOUCHES me..... - Anonymous http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nero111
01-10-2004, 03:17 AM
If you fly 109's like me, then be prepared to go up against aircraft with better abilities than yours. This is by no means a whine, but it is historically correct. The 109's from the beginning of the war to around 1943 were pretty competitive for what they were intended to do, but after that and with the newer planes being introduced you are up for a hard time.

My plane of choice is the G2 with Mk pods. The only reason I use the pods is cause the default ammo is about as good as a BB gun with my aim lol.
With pods on it packs a nice punch but you sacrifice on performance and manouverability.

Always remember that the 109's (all of them) were mainly used at higher altittudes and not on the deck which is generaly what happens online. I have read many an article by former 109 pilots that state over and over that the Russian planes were far superior machines on the deck and that the German pilots would rather hang at high altittudes and pick off enemy pilots that way by BnZ'ing. Normaly also not 1 on 1 but more a 2 on 1 situation. then the enemy doesnt have a chance.

You can outturn a Ki-84 in a 109K?? please tell me how, or if anyone else can let me know. Who were you flying against, the blind!

The G2 offers the best total performance with speed and turning. The earlier 109's are just to slow and underpowered and the later ones, although they pack more aggro, are to heavy.
This is of course jut my opinion.

Just read your post again, outturning La7's and Ki-84's, youmust of been flying against the blind lol.

Arnie_OT
01-10-2004, 04:11 AM
Pinche_bolillo, did you consider using flaps? I think experiences in flying online are different for almost every pilot you meet. You cant tell if they were using flaps, trim (which I actually never use in a turnfight, still a noob as well. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif But I havent heard of using it in turnfighting up till now.), or nothing at all.

sidenote: try the Zero if you want to outturn people. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

F19_Ob
01-11-2004, 05:51 AM
When talking about me109 turning ability ,U may want to take a peak at the finn ace Ky√¬∂sti Karhilas turning tactics against soviet fighters.

A small quote from the article:

"(discussing Karhila's tactics when flying a three-cannon Messerschmitt)

When the enemy decreased power, I used to throttle back even more. In a high speed the turning radius is wider, using less speed I was able to out-turn him having a shorter turning radius. Then you got the deflection, unless the adversary did not spot me in time and for example banked below me. 250kmh seemed to be the optimal speed. "

This is from the second part. here is the link to the whole article.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/WW2History-KyostiKarhilaEnglish.html

and the link to virtualpilots.fi and all articles wich all are good and give alot info on the messerschmitts.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/


enjoy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

pinche_bolillo
01-11-2004, 07:50 AM
im tellin you I am out turning/looping guys in la 7s and ki 84s with the 109K4, and some of the guys in the la 7s and ki 84s are not noobs like me, they have been playing the game for a while, I know this because I am on voice communication with them. so if a noob like me with 6 weeks experience in the game can do it, I would think most people are also doing it. this is online only play, I have never played fb off line other than to test the game to see if it worked. this is at low to medium speeds not high speeds.

I was under the impression that any 109 from a g series on was easily out turned by anything with spitfire like turning ability. I would think that the la 7 and ki 84 would have atleast the same or better performance as the spitfire mk IX in turns.

VMF513_Wolf
01-11-2004, 08:18 AM
lier, u can outturn la, not LA-7 and ki84??? noway..not at low speed.....they must be totaly noobs, or u player with no outside view? then its easyer....to turn, cuz enemy may not know u'r on his 6, or where are u, how far etc.........lets take 1vs1 I want to see how'r outturning la-7 at low speed...

http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/181203-avia_036F.jpg
<The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his>
VMF513-Flying Nightmares (http://www.vmf513.com/)

Nero111
01-11-2004, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ob_swe:

When the enemy decreased power, I used to throttle back even more. In a high speed the turning radius is wider, using less speed I was able to out-turn him having a shorter turning radius. Then you got the deflection, unless the adversary did not spot me in time and for example banked below me. 250kmh seemed to be the optimal speed. "<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup thats all makes perfect sense and is true for the game as well. The problem with that strategy in the game is that once you have throttled back to much, and hopeing you dont miss the deflection shot, you will have no speed to speak of to get away.
I wont be trying that tactic to foten online on the deck, as even if you use that theory you will still not be able to maintain a tight turn against an accomplished Yak Lagg La or Ki pilot.
One pass maybe but nothing going for you after that except a free bungy jump.
Interesting read though, thx.

VMF513_Wolf
01-11-2004, 10:58 AM
ya....and I was turning in BI-1 with p-11 very easy... at low speed, but when p-11 goes at 700km/h it turnes 2good and it can easyly outfly BI-1 , cuz p-11 have top speed 1300km/h and climebs 1000m/sek.......and turnes in 4 sek..

http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/181203-avia_036F.jpg
&lt;The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his&gt;
VMF513-Flying Nightmares (http://www.vmf513.com/)

VMF513_Wolf
01-11-2004, 11:02 AM
almost forgot p-11 is very good high alt fighter and thouse 4 37mm cannons kills everything very easy, only plane u can have problems killing in it is mig 31 cuz it can go 2 times speed of sound and p-11 only 1....

http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/181203-avia_036F.jpg
&lt;The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his&gt;
VMF513-Flying Nightmares (http://www.vmf513.com/)

LeadSpitter_
01-11-2004, 11:27 AM
someone dont know the prop pitch exploit.

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

RayBanJockey
01-11-2004, 11:36 AM
At speeds below about 300km/h, using trim won't help you turn better. Using trim allieviates the compression at high speeds.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/testsig.gif
To anyone who wants to take away my trim on a slider, "From My Cold Dead HANDS (http://www.talonse.com/supergreg.swf)."

TheGozr
01-11-2004, 11:37 AM
I out turn the f109 series. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-GOZR

FW190fan
01-11-2004, 02:38 PM
The 109s all have phenomenal low speed maneuverability.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

RedDeth
01-11-2004, 02:51 PM
it depends on the LA7s or kis speed vs your k4 . whoever is slower has the advantage while using flaps. then it comes down to who can high and low yo yo better to out turn their adversary. i think i can turn k4 well but i have enemies out turn my plane now and then in russian planes. bolillo your a natural you know every manuever and tactic in flight sims. youve been flying online for six years. even though you only have the game 6 weeks you still have an advantage over 99 percent of the online pilots. you ARE that good . no matter the plane or opponent you will use your plane to its best advantage to out turn most opponents. you rarely make mistakes . this gives you the advantage most all times. even in the k4 in a turn fight vs superior turn rate planes you will come out on top 99 percent of time. you can already beat almost anyone while flying the k4 OR the ki84. if you flew a jug you would out turn russian planes is my bet. by using the weight of the jug to help stall fall turn etc. you look for what works and dont panic. others panic

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

tagert
01-11-2004, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RayBanJockey:
At speeds below about 300km/h, using trim won't help you turn better.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not true. Trim just has less effect at slow speeds.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RayBanJockey:
Using trim allieviates the compression at high speeds.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Compression? No, trim is just trim, it redirects the air flow... just like the alerions, elevators and rudders do.. cept they are fixed redirection of the directed air of these.

TAGERT

arjisme
01-11-2004, 06:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RayBanJockey:
Using trim allieviates the compression at high speeds.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Compression? No, trim is just trim, it redirects the air flow... just like the alerions, elevators and rudders do.. cept they are fixed redirection of the directed air of these.

TAGERT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why "No"? Compression occurs when the force of the air flow over the control surfaces is so great that it becomes almost impossible to move them. But, even when that occurs, you can still dial in trim (at least in FB) and that does help alleviate the problem.

tagert
01-11-2004, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
Why "No"? Compression occurs when the force of the air flow over the control surfaces is so great that it becomes almost impossible to move them. But, even when that occurs, you can still dial in trim (at least in FB) and that does help alleviate the problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No because that is not the purpose of trim. Trim is to zero out the control forces for level flight, not to "allieviates the compression" allieviate constant stick inputs to maitian level flight maybe.. but compression.. no. Some pilots did note that on some aircraft the use of trim would help in a compression situation.. ie like a fast dive.. but not all.. ie not the P38 for example.

TAGERT

arjisme
01-11-2004, 08:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
Why "No"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No because that is not the purpose of trim. Trim is to zero out the control forces for level flight, not to "allieviates the compression" allieviate constant stick inputs to maitian level flight maybe.. but compression.. no. Some pilots did note that on some aircraft the use of trim would help in a compression situation.. ie like a fast dive.. but not all.. ie not the P38 for example.

TAGERT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I understand that trim was designed to help maintain level flight, but it is certainly possible to use it for more than one purpose -- at least when it is, in fact, effective to do so.

However, as far as I know, no plane in FB actually suffers from compressibility to the point that it cannot pull out of a dive. Basically, they either can or they break up trying to because of excessive speed. But you only need to use stick input to actually pull out. So, you would not need trim as the input of last resort, so to speak, since your control surfaces stay responsive.

BfHeFwMe
01-11-2004, 08:33 PM
As soon as I run into a Spitfire IX I'll let you all know.

RayBanJockey
01-11-2004, 09:36 PM
tagert, I talking about the sim.

Not real life.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/testsig.gif
To anyone who wants to take away my trim on a slider, "From My Cold Dead HANDS (http://www.talonse.com/supergreg.swf)."

Nero111
01-12-2004, 12:48 AM
Back to the topic at handhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So some of you guys say you can do it, outturn planes like the Ki-84, Yaks and Laggs, some not.

I am ones of those that cannot no matter what I try. I sustained turning fight or what often happens is the enemy goes into a turning cirle on the deck and there is no way I can keep it that tight continousely with him, impossible in my view. Ends up with him after a circuit or 2 getting a shot at me and then the next turn he is almost on my 6.

So to those of you that say you can do all this please point me in the direction of a doccy that will explain this from the games perspective.
I have been flying IL2 since Sturmo days and I am by no means a great pilot, but I am no noob at these games.
I use and x45 with every concievable control mapped to the stick.
I Fly full real all the time and am an avid user of prop pitch in the 109's. I override the auto setting cause I can get more out of my machine if I manage it manualy.
I have my trim mapped to the wheels on the x45 as well.
So lets hear how you do it, cause I am sick and tired of getting my *** kicked in my 109 at low level by these planes. I must say though that I am very skeptical, but I will try anything.
thx

RedDeth
01-12-2004, 02:23 AM
you want to turn a k4 like a pro you have to learn how yourself. squads dont give that info out for everyone. gl.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

Nero111
01-12-2004, 03:16 AM
Bah thats a weak answer, thought the Luftwaffe stuck together.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
I can hold my own 1 on 1 against most 109 pilots. I still wat to see somone out turn a yak or a lag on the deck though.
Have AFJ got any good 109 pilots and where do they fly. Then I will pop in and take a look.

roadczar
01-12-2004, 06:56 AM
I don‚'t know about that. In my on-line experience when using YAK 3, I win 90% of the time against 109s and seem to loose that much when flying 109 myself. Better 109 pilots just stay alive little longer. 109s IMO are inferior in both turning abilities and in cockpit visibility.

Nero111
01-12-2004, 07:46 AM
My point exactly!
You might be able to, on the very first turn get an advantage in a 109, and note I say might as it all depends on airspeed at the merge. No way in hell you will stick with them in sustained turns on the deck especialy not in a K4 and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong online.
After the first turn if you dont get a shot off you are deadmeat imho if the Yak pilot knows what he is doing. You will have bled so much speed and you wont even be able to get away as you will have no altitude to accelerate and the Yaks acceleration of the mark at low alt is good. (all of this with managing cem on the 109 and overriding the autoprop)
Take the fight above 3000m and then the tables turn in the 109's favour very fast the higher you go.
Guys please dont get me wrong I am not whining about the 109 performance, not by a long shot. historicaly the 109's started to take a beating after 1943 by better aircraft of the day so as far as I am concerned the game is correct in these aspects.
What I would dearly love to see is a 109 pro go up against a yak or lagg pro 1 on 1 on the deck and win hands down everytime as some folks say thy can do. I just dont think its possible.
I love my 109's and will always fly them, just wont get to involved in turning battles on the deck when the odds are far from in my favour.

Nero111
01-12-2004, 07:56 AM
Oh one more thing, if what I am saying here is absolute bollox and there is something that I am not doing right after a few years at the IL2 games then I will humbly apologise, but its only bollox if you prove it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tagert
01-12-2004, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
I understand that trim was designed to help maintain level flight, but it is certainly possible to use it for more than one purpose
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Agreed.. you could use a screw driver to hammer in a nail too... but that is not the purpose of a screw driver and it wont work on all nails! My point is trim is not to "allieviate the compression" it is to trim the aircraft for the current speed to allieviate the stick forces... ie zero out the pilots inputs so he does not have to maintain a constant force.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
-- at least when it is, in fact, effective to do so.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactally... and that is just it... trim was NOT effective to do so on ALL aircraft with regards to compresion situtaions.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
However, as far as I know, no plane in FB actually suffers from compressibility to the point that it cannot pull out of a dive. Basically, they either can or they break up trying to because of excessive speed. But you only need to use stick input to actually pull out. So, you would not need trim as the input of last resort, so to speak, since your control surfaces stay responsive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which only makes his orginal statment even more confusing!! Rayban statment does not hold water in the real world... or the sim.. as he claims he was talking about now.

TAGERT

tagert
01-12-2004, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RayBanJockey:
tagert, I talking about the sim.

Not real life.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But it aint so in either! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

Nero111
01-12-2004, 10:53 AM
Commmooonnnnnn where are all the 109 pros or is it all just hyped talk, lets see the skills or dont they exist and this is just propaganda to keep the reds guessing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think I will grow old before I see this out-turning manouver.

JG27_Dacripler
01-12-2004, 11:28 AM
I am a noob myself but have found the 109 is a remarkable airplane to fly in a turning contest. Some 109's are a little less capable of pulling a tight radius due to size and the elevator limitations, However I see those who are constantly on off flaps and use robust amounts or prop pitch to keep high "E" to accompish a tight "turns" and those who await an individuals mistakes and gaining the advantage. Some flyers are in manual Pitch and are fantastic, and some that go full auto and are equally as good. Manual gives you a slight advantage but the risks are way higher and are best left for the experts. In my short experience, I am not afraid to say that I enjoy the G-6 A/S which is remarkably nimble and holds its own with LA's and other turn fighters. I cant say its a beginners plane but I enjoy it because it seems to do everything just "right" I have flown the Larger G-14 and K-4 and have found myself at loss and highly frustrated. (Tons of raw HP on tap but I have no clue how to harness it right) And the firepower when I am fortunate to have that good day, WOW! I rememember the original game and I flew the early F-4 and took it into IL2 FB and had fun. I guess it is up to you what you want to do and fly. I like all of the planes on the disk and enjoy them. Fly what you want and have a blast. I hope I have helped a little and have scratched a little of the surface?

arjisme
01-12-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:
Agreed.. you could use a screw driver to hammer in a nail too... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Or landing gear to help reduce speed...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>but that is not the purpose of a screw driver and it wont work on all nails!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, and I wouldn't advise dropping gear just whenever, either!

We are basically agreeing here. :-)

In game, you don't need trim to get out of a dive when controls are unresponsive. However, you can add trim to your stick input to increase the control surface effect. That's not what trim was designed for (in RL), but it does work that way in FB.

tagert
01-12-2004, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
Yep, and I wouldn't advise dropping gear just whenever, either!
We are basically agreeing here. :-)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed... even though the F4u landing gear were not designed for air breaks they did work like air breaks.. which is not to imply that all aircraft would or could use thier landing gear for airbreaks.. Some would just be ripped off the body.. But the F4u was a sturdy NAVY aircraft! On that same note, trim did work on some aircraft for dive compression problems which is not to imply that all aircraft would or could use thier trim to offset compression problems.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
In game, you don't need trim to get out of a dive when controls are unresponsive.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Emmmmmmmmmmmm...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
However, you can add trim to your stick input to increase the control surface effect.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>increase or decrease the effect... where the effect is to redirect the airflow, thus changing the moment of the force

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ar****e:
That's not what trim was designed for (in RL), but it does work that way in FB.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well no, that is exactally what it was designed for... But 99 out of 100 times in RL it is just used for level flight at given speed to aleviate the stick forces the pilot would have to apply without trim... Like the 109 pilots had to do, due to the lack there of. Not a big deal on short 1hr 109 limited fule hops... but if you were flying 8+ hours from england to german to mix it up in a Mustang.. it would take it toll on the pilot if it didnt have trim. What I dont buy into from the orginal statement is the *compression* thing.. Trim is not designed to aleviate compression.. as a mater of fact on some aircraft it had no effect on compression problems.. The P38 early on for example.

TAGERT