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EmbodyingSeven5
12-14-2014, 06:21 AM
in my opinion I thought assassins creed embers and revelations was a great way to tie the bow on the ezio/ altiar storyline. after that they introduced Connor and aveline during the same year. they then introduce Edward and satisfyingly concluded his story in forsaken. This year we are given two new protagonists Shay and Arno. after all this ubi is saying rogue is the conclusion to colonial America games/kenway saga. HUH? we also have a new playable character in victory as well it seems. this upsets me because I want all are characters to be given closure and respect when they seem to be flat out ignored by ubi. Ezio had three games and a short film for Christ sake. any propositions for our problem?

JustPlainQuirky
12-14-2014, 06:22 AM
Agreed. The amount of characters introduced is overwhelming.

I might give up entirely and simply invest myself in the first generation of characters.

Matt.mc
12-14-2014, 06:29 AM
Agreed, the amount of characters in Unity that I don't know anything about, even their names is nuts.

Altair1789
12-14-2014, 06:34 AM
A Connor DLC would help with Connor's loose ends, and a better focus on Victory would help with terrible plot. I think a best case scenario Connor DLC would be if they made a Unity DLC that lets you play as the characters in the beginning of Unity (y'know the one that was basically a big screw you to all fans), except they're more than one mission and let you free roam in the city of the character whenever you want. I'd also like Eseosa to play a big role in Connor's memories. That would be awesome

Probably irrelevant but I think bringing Desmond back and making AC Victory's protagonist a direct descendant of Altaïr would be amazing. Desmond's mother's side had the Kenways and Ezio, Desmond's dad's side had Altaïr... That's it

STDlyMcStudpants
12-14-2014, 06:49 AM
If they were going to give a game ending to connor.. unity or rogue wouldve been that game
Theres no hope of it happening...
Do we really want a game made by a team that probably tired of creating new york and have to recreate it with scale for next gen... its safe to say they are moving on...
But it would be cool if in the future they did an Arno/Connor game like Revelations where its a much smaller game and they can tell a very linear connor tale without having to create a full fledged game for him as im sure they dont want to....
I kinda wanna see Arno do something with his life....
I felt sad for Arno at the end of Unity....
I wouldnt be surprised if his tale ends in suicide....
But id mostly like to see Connor Vs Shay...
I want one if not both to die in a battle against eachother...

JustPlainQuirky
12-14-2014, 06:58 AM
They could literally conclude Connor's Eseosa's Aveline's Arno's and Shay's stories all in one game if they wanted to.

Or one novel.

Easy to get it all out of the way.

They just choose not to.

Namikaze_17
12-14-2014, 08:16 AM
Like Altaïr/Ezio, they should finish this group before heading into Sam's time.

If it doesn't happen, I'll live of course.

But a good DLC or Novel would be nice to wrap them up.

Still kinda ticked that Rogue is the "Conclusion". It seemed like it was gonna be followed up to something epic.

But I guess not. :'(

souNdwAve89
12-14-2014, 10:15 AM
A Connor DLC would help with Connor's loose ends, and a better focus on Victory would help with terrible plot. I think a best case scenario Connor DLC would be if they made a Unity DLC that lets you play as the characters in the beginning of Unity (y'know the one that was basically a big screw you to all fans), except they're more than one mission and let you free roam in the city of the character whenever you want. I'd also like Eseosa to play a big role in Connor's memories. That would be awesomeProbably irrelevant but I think bringing Desmond back and making AC Victory's protagonist a direct descendant of Altaïr would be amazing. Desmond's mother's side had the Kenways and Ezio, Desmond's dad's side had Altaïr... That's itIt's actually the other way around. William's bloodline are the Auditore's and Kenway's while his mother's side is the bloodline of Altair. In AC3, Desmond had the argument with his father on why it's always him logging into the Animus when Connor is William's ancestor too. Also, we know that Desmond's mother's bloodline is quite diverse too with Altair, 13th century Egypt, 14th century Ashikaga period, 18th century French Revolution (not Arno), and 19th century Napoleonic wars and Taiwan.http://b-i.forbesimg.com/insertcoin/files/2013/11/ac2.jpg


On the topic

I know that some fans speculate that another way to finish the story of Connor and any unfinished character is doing what Ubisoft is doing with AC Chronicles: China. I personally am not a fan of that idea though.

JustPlainQuirky
12-14-2014, 10:31 AM
Demoting Connor to a chronicles game, as I said many times before, would just be an insult to his character.

If anything, Eseosa should get a chronicles game.

D.I.D.
12-14-2014, 01:57 PM
Your title and first post suggest there's a wide problem here, but then you say within the same post that you believe Altair, Ezio and Edward's stories are wrapped up well enough. Arno's story is ongoing until we see Dead Kings, which might close his story well, so that just leaves Shay and Connor (since you don't mention Aveline or Adéwalé).

I've always thought the desire for more of an ending for Connor was unnecessary. Connor is an unusual character in that he represents more people than any other main character in the series. Connor's story could not end up with a satisfactory conclusion because the history of the Native American people still has no justice. His story ended 'badly', but he pledged to continue his struggle, and that rounded off his tale. I never saw the need for TOKW, but you got that - the longest DLC in AC history. Edward's story concluded within his game, and ACIV's expansion went to another character entirely - that was fine by me, and fine by you. Altair got one game and a few missions in ACR.

So, you're either upset about Connor alone, or Connor and Shay: either one or two characters out of seven. I don't think the number of games or the number of books or short films is really the problem, so much as whether or not each game tells its story well. If it does, one game should be plenty.

I think it can be a fault in the audience to insist on seeing more than they should. They love a character so much that they insist on being shown the inevitably disappointing story of how Darth Vader became Darth Vader, or what happened to Deckard after "Blade Runner". These demands miss the point of those stories, and answering them wrecks any power they originally had. If Moby **** had been an Ubisoft game, people would be campaigning for DLC to show what happened to Ishmael after he got back to shore, and writing Moby **** II fanfic.

Rather than dealing with the fallout of whole games and tying up their loose ends, I'd like to see more releases of the story files that Project Legacy unlocked. Many people were intrigued about the stories in there, and if any of those get their game, the game itself will be tying up loose ends. We might be about to see something like that in Victory, if Ubisoft has not forgotten the great set-up around William Robert Woodman (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/974472-Potencial-assassination-targets-in-AC-Victory?p=10437328&viewfull=1#post10437328). If assassins' stories were set up in this way, we could get the hype going on the best of them and then there'd be a greater sense that the game is the dessert rather than the first course.

Namikaze_17
12-14-2014, 02:02 PM
Demoting Connor to a chronicles game, as I said many times before, would just be an insult to his character.

If anything, Eseosa should get a chronicles game.

In your case, demoting Connor to the *website that shall not be named* would be the worse. :rolleyes:

EmbodyingSeven5
12-14-2014, 03:08 PM
They could literally conclude Connor's Eseosa's Aveline's Arno's and Shay's stories all in one game if they wanted to.

Or one novel.

Easy to get it all out of the way.

They just choose not to.

that would be an epic game. maybe you play someone in the middle of the assassins /Templar conflict who hunts down key players on both sides. would make for a very emotional game.

EmbodyingSeven5
12-14-2014, 03:21 PM
Your title and first post suggest there's a wide problem here, but then you say within the same post that you believe Altair, Ezio and Edward's stories are wrapped up well enough. Arno's story is ongoing until we see Dead Kings, which might close his story well, so that just leaves Shay and Connor (since you don't mention Aveline or Adéwalé).

I've always thought the desire for more of an ending for Connor was unnecessary. Connor is an unusual character in that he represents more people than any other main character in the series. Connor's story could not end up with a satisfactory conclusion because the history of the Native American people still has no justice. His story ended 'badly', but he pledged to continue his struggle, and that rounded off his tale. I never saw the need for TOKW, but you got that - the longest DLC in AC history. Edward's story concluded within his game, and ACIV's expansion went to another character entirely - that was fine by me, and fine by you. Altair got one game and a few missions in ACR.

So, you're either upset about Connor alone, or Connor and Shay: either one or two characters out of seven. I don't think the number of games or the number of books or short films is really the problem, so much as whether or not each game tells its story well. If it does, one game should be plenty.

I think it can be a fault in the audience to insist on seeing more than they should. They love a character so much that they insist on being shown the inevitably disappointing story of how Darth Vader became Darth Vader, or what happened to Deckard after "Blade Runner". These demands miss the point of those stories, and answering them wrecks any power they originally had. If Moby **** had been an Ubisoft game, people would be campaigning for DLC to show what happened to Ishmael after he got back to shore, and writing Moby **** II fanfic.

Rather than dealing with the fallout of whole games and tying up their loose ends, I'd like to see more releases of the story files that Project Legacy unlocked. Many people were intrigued about the stories in there, and if any of those get their game, the game itself will be tying up loose ends. We might be about to see something like that in Victory, if Ubisoft has not forgotten the great set-up around William Robert Woodman (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/974472-Potencial-assassination-targets-in-AC-Victory?p=10437328&viewfull=1#post10437328). If assassins' stories were set up in this way, we could get the hype going on the best of them and then there'd be a greater sense that the game is the dessert rather than the first course.
uhh......... I did mention aveline.
Adewales story is concluded............
Connors story shouldn't be over because there has been build up for a future Connor game in AC 3, AC Rogue and in a DLC for AC 4 ( Avelines DLC)
Arno will not be the protagonist in the next AC game, which means ubi is moving on before tying up current storyline.
Aveline seems to have an unclear future with Connor and the colonial assassins.
Rogues ending has build up for shays future.

JustPlainQuirky
12-14-2014, 04:38 PM
that would be an epic game. maybe you play someone in the middle of the assassins /Templar conflict who hunts down key players on both sides. would make for a very emotional game.

My idea was that Eseosa would be a playable character in a standard AC game (or star of a novel) and there would be a plot around hunting Shay.

I even wrote a screenplay of it.

Something along the lines of Shay forging a letter to Connor requesting aid in Paris. While he and others are gone, Shay burns down the homestead and kills off most of the Assassin order.

This leaves only Connor (who switches to his native assassin garb), Aveline, and Eseosa. With the help of Arno, they go on a pursuit to kill Shay.

I had a headcanon Shay has a blonde daughter for Connor to hook up with but the timeline would not match. She'd be like half Connor's age.

So introduce the blonde however y'all like, ubi. Though I'd like to see Shay's kid if he has one.

TO_M
12-14-2014, 04:57 PM
My idea was that Eseosa would be a playable character in a standard AC game (or star of a novel) and there would be a plot around hunting Shay.


Why would anyone want to play a game about some obscure character introduced in that godawful initaties programme?

ze_topazio
12-14-2014, 05:52 PM
Don't care, if AC2 had been Ezio's only game I would totally fine with it, each game tells a story, it was fine that we only saw a few weeks of Altair's life in AC1 and we only followed Edward and Shay for a few years, we saw 20 something years of Ezio's life because that was how long he took to exact his revenge, we saw 20 something years of Connor's quest to eradicate the Templars, protect the natives and help the Patriots and once he achieved that the story ended.

I don't need to know every bloody detail of their lives, I don't care who they married and how many kids they had and how they died, that would make this series seems like a gossip magazine.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if they reveal that, but the way some fans talk about it like Ubisoft it's committing a crime by not revealing those details is kinda funny.

JustPlainQuirky
12-14-2014, 06:14 PM
Don't care, if AC2 had been Ezio's only game I would totally fine with it, each game tells a story, it was fine that we only saw a few weeks of Altair's life in AC1 and we only followed Edward and Shay for a few years, we saw 20 something years of Ezio's life because that was how long he took to exact his revenge, we saw 20 something years of Connor's quest to eradicate the Templars, protect the natives and help the Patriots and once he achieved that the story ended.

I don't need to know every bloody detail of their lives, I don't care who they married and how many kids they had and how they died, that would make this series seems like a gossip magazine.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if they reveal that, but the way some fans talk about it like Ubisoft it's committing a crime by not revealing those details is kinda funny.

To me the problem is more like it feels too open ended

Like the ending to AC3 and Rogue both felt like they're building up to something and then nothing happens, if that makes sense.

Namikaze_17
12-14-2014, 11:15 PM
To me the problem is more like it feels too open ended

Like the ending to AC3 and Rogue both felt like they're building up to something and then nothing happens, if that makes sense.


This.


I feel this way really.

But like I said before, If nothing happens, I'll live.

So it doesn't matter.

Hrafnagud72
12-14-2014, 11:49 PM
My idea was that Eseosa would be a playable character in a standard AC game (or star of a novel) and there would be a plot around hunting Shay.

I even wrote a screenplay of it.

Something along the lines of Shay forging a letter to Connor requesting aid in Paris. While he and others are gone, Shay burns down the homestead and kills off most of the Assassin order.

This leaves only Connor (who switches to his native assassin garb), Aveline, and Eseosa. With the help of Arno, they go on a pursuit to kill Shay.

I had a headcanon Shay has a blonde daughter for Connor to hook up with but the timeline would not match. She'd be like half Connor's age.

So introduce the blonde however y'all like, ubi. Though I'd like to see Shay's kid if he has one.

That would be entirely out of Shay's character. Shay has no interest in killing Assassins. He only kills them out of necessity to keep them from destroying cities by screwing with the pieces of eden. If you remember, he chose to let Achilles live. Bombing the homestead and killing the Assassin order for no reason makes no sense for his moral compass. He would need a reason to go there, to stop them from doing something harmful with a piece of eden.


To me the problem is more like it feels too open ended

Like the ending to AC3 and Rogue both felt like they're building up to something and then nothing happens, if that makes sense.

Rogue was open ended, it opened right into Unity. The last mission you do in Rogue is the first introduction in Unity to Arno. That is the connection and when that mission was played in Unity it closed the end of Rogue. I don't feel any of the characters need anymore expansion to them.


Arno will not be the protagonist in the next AC game, which means ubi is moving on before tying up current storyline.

It's quite possible they will wrap up Arno's story in the Dead Kings DLC, so really no one knows if his story is done yet or not.

But personally, I don't care too much about who is friends with who and who slept with who. I don't want to know that much into their lives.

D.I.D.
12-15-2014, 04:49 AM
uhh......... I did mention aveline.
Adewales story is concluded............
Connors story shouldn't be over because there has been build up for a future Connor game in AC 3, AC Rogue and in a DLC for AC 4 ( Avelines DLC)
Arno will not be the protagonist in the next AC game, which means ubi is moving on before tying up current storyline.
Aveline seems to have an unclear future with Connor and the colonial assassins.
Rogues ending has build up for shays future.

There's a rule that teachers use when training fiction writers. They ask their trainees to always consider: "Am I showing my readers the most exciting moment in my characters' lives? If not, why not?"

Connor's story happened during one of the world's most earth-shaking events, and it failed to communicate that drama to enough people. If you're left thinking that surely there's something else the writers can show you that can make his story great, after they failed to satisfy you by use of the American Revolution, then I'd say they shouldn't try. Equally, they managed to give Desmond the end of the world and make it anti-climactic. What do you do after that, and more to the point, should you? If we're considering sequels just to rehabilitate characters who've already been given the biggest opportunities, that would feel like a desperate act to me.

Sure, Ezio got a massive amount of attention, maybe more than he should. Revelations just about has a reason to exist because of the llibrary ending, and I guess Embers gave us Shao Jun. Just because that character might have had a lot of work doesn't mean that others have a similar quota to fill. It's the company's job to figure out which games are being sold by their period, which by the protagonist, and which just by the success of the series. All my favourite protags so far only got one game, and all of them clearly had more going on beyond the parameters of the story we were shown, but that's alright.

(I forgot Aveline's ACIV DLC, but it was PS-only, right? As far as I'm aware, there wasn't anything major in that to conclude her story? Seems like all people ever have to say about that is how much they hate Patience Gibbs!)

JustPlainQuirky
12-15-2014, 04:54 AM
That would be entirely out of Shay's character. Shay has no interest in killing Assassins. He only kills them out of necessity to keep them from destroying cities by screwing with the pieces of eden. If you remember, he chose to let Achilles live. Bombing the homestead and killing the Assassin order for no reason makes no sense for his moral compass. He would need a reason to go there, to stop them from doing something harmful with a piece of eden.




The end of Rogue already established Connor as a viable threat to Shay's alleged plans.

So....

Namikaze_17
12-15-2014, 05:06 AM
The end of Rogue already established Connor as a viable threat to Shay's alleged plans.

So....



This.

Plus there's always the possibility of them coming after Shay rather than the other way around.

JustPlainQuirky
12-15-2014, 05:30 AM
Which is kind of ironic.

They both are just trying to get rid of Pieces of Eden.

Though you'd think Shay would want to use the PoE given he is a templar.

I guess he'd be one of those templars who believes in manipulating people rather than literal control of their mindsets.

EmbodyingSeven5
12-15-2014, 05:33 AM
There's a rule that teachers use when training fiction writers. They ask their trainees to always consider: "Am I showing my readers the most exciting moment in my characters' lives? If not, why not?"

Connor's story happened during one of the world's most earth-shaking events, and it failed to communicate that drama to enough people. If you're left thinking that surely there's something else the writers can show you that can make his story great, after they failed to satisfy you by use of the American Revolution, then I'd say they shouldn't try. Equally, they managed to give Desmond the end of the world and make it anti-climactic. What do you do after that, and more to the point, should you? If we're considering sequels just to rehabilitate characters who've already been given the biggest opportunities, that would feel like a desperate act to me.

Sure, Ezio got a massive amount of attention, maybe more than he should. Revelations just about has a reason to exist because of the llibrary ending, and I guess Embers gave us Shao Jun. Just because that character might have had a lot of work doesn't mean that others have a similar quota to fill. It's the company's job to figure out which games are being sold by their period, which by the protagonist, and which just by the success of the series. All my favourite protags so far only got one game, and all of them clearly had more going on beyond the parameters of the story we were shown, but that's alright.

(I forgot Aveline's ACIV DLC, but it was PS-only, right? As far as I'm aware, there wasn't anything major in that to conclude her story? Seems like all people ever have to say about that is how much they hate Patience Gibbs!)
I understand your points..... it just gets on my nerves that these last few AC games seem to build up to some sort of climax between all of these established characters. I generally think it would make for a great game. things like AC revelation are pretty un-necessary. I would have been fine with brotherhood and was tired with ezio by revelations.

EmbodyingSeven5
12-15-2014, 05:39 AM
This.

Plus there's always the possibility of them coming after Shay rather than the other way around.

do they even know he exists? for some reason Achilles never brought shay up to Connor....... or maybe he did during one of Connors lessons and we didn't witness it. Also they never explain why Shay or other Templars in rogue aren't brought up in Haytham's diary. the game even acknowledges in a database entry that Haytham had a diary and didn't mention Shay in it

EmbodyingSeven5
12-15-2014, 05:44 AM
Which is kind of ironic.

They both are just trying to get rid of Pieces of Eden.

Though you'd think Shay would want to use the PoE given he is a templar.

I guess he'd be one of those templars who believes in manipulating people rather than literal control of their mindsets.

I thought this was a kind of stupid reason for shay to leave the assassins for the Templars. the first thing that came to mind was- don't the Templars spend most of their time hunting and meddling with artifacts? why don't we ever see shay question Haytham on the POE or how Templars deal with artifacts.

Namikaze_17
12-15-2014, 05:55 AM
do they even know he exists? for some reason Achilles never brought shay up to Connor....... or maybe he did during one of Connors lessons and we didn't witness it. Also they never explain why Shay or other Templars in rogue aren't brought up in Haytham's diary. the game even acknowledges in a database entry that Haytham had a diary and didn't mention Shay in it


Probably not...

Not unless Shay turns into Ceasre and starts becoming obsessed with Power and destroys cities. :-\

Though the Assassins have ways of finding everyone. If he was rumored in France, his actions surely would have to come to Connor's ears sometime.

Maybe he's a "New Threat" that's causing issues with brothers in Europe or somewhere in America?

Maybe they've been searching for him since 1776 and finally found him resting on his chair with his Family?

Anything could come up is all I'm saying really.

VestigialLlama4
12-15-2014, 08:04 AM
Personally, I think having new characters in games is pretty good. The problem is that the marketing folks behind the games want a New Ezio.

I don't see it as over-fluctuation except that I see it as providing potential for more creative storytelling. Like you can have two sides to a story, multiple viewpoints and the like, it also adds to the historical feeling, in that you aren't just the only story in the world, there are other stuff happening.

In AC3, you already had two characters in one setting. So right away, you had this thing about it being decentralized. LIBERATION had Aveline in the same setting. Then later with AC4, the DLC tackled Adewale. So already in two years, in say four games(with III and Freedom Cry being offshoots) back to back, you had five player characters. Which is cool. But the fact is this approach came from the fact that Connor was unfairly compared to Ezio and wasn't franchise material and the marketing people obviously held that as a failure.

I have no problems with Connor not getting another game. That is fine. I do have a problem though with snide and excessive insults absorbed in the game simply because Connor isn't franchise material when he was clearly never intended to be (why else feature two characters in one setting). A simple biography on the database would have sufficed for me.

But then you have ROGUE where the entire supporting cast, setting of III is brought back but we don't get Connor and that's when I really get upset, since Shay in ROGUE exists for Franchise reasons rather than gameplay. ROGUE is a bastard child of III and BLACK FLAG, and while playing as Templar as nice, it doesn't add anything really new except in giving us another whiteboy badass to potentially spin a franchise or sequel around.

Then we have ARNO who is such a custom-made Franchise Character that it isn't funny...