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Snoop_Baron
02-20-2004, 04:31 PM
I just saw this on the LOMAC forums on plane visibility:

"This visibly range to a fighter in Lock On simply has to be adjusted, ASAP.

I can routinely see an F/A-18 VERY clearly at 5-6 km range in real life, and can still see it clearly but faintly at 10-12 km visual range." -- zzzspace

Had me thinking again of the thread the other day about using low resolutions like 800x600 to be able to see the "dots" in FB. I know an F/A-18 is bigger than the fighters in FB. But even compensating for that it still seems that FB even with it's improved dot visibility over LOMAC is still significantly poorer visiblity wise than real life. I think they should make the dots easier to see in normal view at much further distances than currently in the game and at high resolutions such as 1280x960. That would allow more people to fly without the icons (which although useful are a bit of an eye sore).

What do you guys think?

A funny example of this was the other night I was practicing in a coop with a squad mate and he could see the enemy dots way before I could even though both of us where flying straight to the dots (head on vs AI). The difference was he was running at much lower resolution than I. (Oh and he doesn't have great eye sight) But I'm running high rez + AA.

s!

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

Snoop_Baron
02-20-2004, 04:31 PM
I just saw this on the LOMAC forums on plane visibility:

"This visibly range to a fighter in Lock On simply has to be adjusted, ASAP.

I can routinely see an F/A-18 VERY clearly at 5-6 km range in real life, and can still see it clearly but faintly at 10-12 km visual range." -- zzzspace

Had me thinking again of the thread the other day about using low resolutions like 800x600 to be able to see the "dots" in FB. I know an F/A-18 is bigger than the fighters in FB. But even compensating for that it still seems that FB even with it's improved dot visibility over LOMAC is still significantly poorer visiblity wise than real life. I think they should make the dots easier to see in normal view at much further distances than currently in the game and at high resolutions such as 1280x960. That would allow more people to fly without the icons (which although useful are a bit of an eye sore).

What do you guys think?

A funny example of this was the other night I was practicing in a coop with a squad mate and he could see the enemy dots way before I could even though both of us where flying straight to the dots (head on vs AI). The difference was he was running at much lower resolution than I. (Oh and he doesn't have great eye sight) But I'm running high rez + AA.

s!

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

cuski
02-20-2004, 04:36 PM
Well, this is great, but this problem existed on a different level ever since the dawn of simulation.

It would be nice to see it fixed, but honestly, I have no constructive comments on how it *could* be fixed... so, until I do, I'll keep my mouth shut and live with it.

Other people should learn this too (ie. zzzspace).

carguy_
02-20-2004, 04:38 PM
ONe thing I know for sure is that the size of da monitor counts.Tested on 15,17,19,21.21 has a significant advantage over lower sizes.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Snoop_Baron
02-20-2004, 04:38 PM
Forgot to include the thread link:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=38610606&m=439103961&p=2

Here are some other selected quotes:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I just had this issue directly confirmed; 10 USMC F-18c have been weapons training around Townsville for the past two weeks. Half an hour ago I watched two of them fly low down the Townsville strand past my office window, then turned seawards and north east over the port area, then out towards Magnetic Island.

They remained easily visual the whole time in high cirrus and light haze, with hot 34 C temp and sweltering humidity levels, but mostly a blue sky with a few cumulostratus about the mountains.

Continuous visual tracking to 10 km and beyond was easily achieved.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Visibility,
I was an air traffic controller in the USAF and handled F-15s along with T-33s, 38s, tankers and buffs. You can see an F-15 out to about 8 NM no problem in absolutly clear weather and knowing where he is. In a search at about 5 NM you can pick them up easily. I have 20-10 and 20-15 vision. This got a little harder with overcast or haze but I had to be able to work traffic all the time at 3-5 mile distances and see them in the pattern.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Now as a lowly cessna pilot I can tell you that on the clearest of days you can see another cessna 12 to 15 nm miles away.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

JG7_Rall
02-20-2004, 04:59 PM
As a cessna student working towards my pilot license (almost have the hours but I don't meet the age requirement) I've noticed that you can spot planes MUCH easier agaist a "clear" sky in real life than you can in FB.

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/sig.jpg

pourshot
02-20-2004, 05:26 PM
Keeping track of targets is the biggest pain in the butt,it's not hard to loose a plane against the ground even at 1km and imho thats something that should be looked at.

edit

I have no problem spotting them against the sky even at very long range
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

LW_Cobra
02-20-2004, 05:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snoop_Baron:
Here are some other selected quotes:
[QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
Now as a lowly cessna pilot I can tell you that on the clearest of days you can see another cessna 12 to 15 nm miles away.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROTFLMAO......no friggin way!!! As an Air Traffic Controller for the past 17 years, NEVER has a Cessna anything..172, 310, 421, 650...seen traffic 12-15 miles away unless it was above 18,000 feet and very clear outside and the traffic was leaving a contrail and they were using binoculars and it was at minimum a DC9 size aircraft, it just doesn't happen. Hell, 75% of the time they (single & double prop cessnas) don't see traffic 1 mile away, head on and at the same altitude - of course these guys would have been the first to die in combat, absolutly no doubt in my mind about that. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Http://mysite.verizon.net/res0adci/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sigsmall.jpg

ucanfly
02-20-2004, 06:09 PM
I am all for realism . That is why I find a major issue with these grey invisible dots at Normal FOV. I at times have trouble seeing a fighter coming right at me and firing at less than 500 m if he's headon and I'm above him. That's is not realistic at all. SOrry , it may seem like a nit pick , but I am trying to fly with no Icons and this aspect of the game is frustrating and it's very unrealistic.

The overdark skies at altitude, the nearly invisible grey dots and the extra thick canopy frames are enough to drive you natty if your flying "full real", which is a major reason it is not very popular.

Flamin_Squirrel
02-20-2004, 06:49 PM
I think this is one of the things that limits how real a flightsim can be while we're confined to VDU's. The way planes are modeled at different distances, and the limited resolution of monitors for example, are problems that need to be overcome.

TooCooL34
02-20-2004, 07:12 PM
Searched the sky for two and half years in Air Force. Saw various kinds of classic to modern a/c in Control tower and some a/c,...
(My eyesight is both 1.5)

FB is easier, far easier.

What about talking over advantage of PC pilot, not just disadvantage. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squad, South Korea

--Quick Spec--
WinXP Pro, AthlonXP 3200+, 1024DDR, FX5900XT 128MB, two SW pr2, TIR2

Snoop_Baron
02-20-2004, 07:21 PM
cuski,the solution is pretty simple make the dots larger and visible at greater distances to more closely match reality. Planes should be as easy/difficult to spot in the default view as they are in real life at long distances.

You don't even have to be a pilot to tell how badly FB simulates this. If you go to any airshow it's much easier to see those WWII airplanes at a distance than in FB.

s!

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

Slammin_
02-20-2004, 07:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cuski:
Well, this is great, but this problem existed on a different level ever since the dawn of simulation.

It would be nice to see it fixed, but honestly, I have no constructive comments on how it *could* be fixed... so, until I do, I'll keep my mouth shut and live with it.

Other people should learn this too (ie. zzzspace).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yup. I don't know why folks can't just accept this fact. I suspect it may be because some have not been around long enough to know that this has always been a problem. It's nothing new, and I'm sure if it could be dealt with, it would have by now.

UncleVanya2001
02-20-2004, 08:11 PM
Hell, I was on an extended final a few days ago...ATC says: You'll be following a Cessna turning left base...

I looked & looked & NEVER located that aircraft until it was actually ON the runway! And I was only two miles out...The aircraft was white & was flying over dark Western Washington evergreens. I had to ask the controller finally if that was my traffic on the runway...!

I think the visibility in FB is perfect. Lock On is lousy, & CFS3 just plain sucks...

UV

UncleVanya2001
02-20-2004, 08:15 PM
At the same time, though, I was able to see a Mooney climbing out of OLM when I was about 10 or 12 miles away...

Sometimes I see them right away, in real life, & sometimes it's a struggle. Sometimes when you're searching & can't see it & then finally DO you wonder how the hell you coulda missed it!

Snoop_Baron
02-20-2004, 11:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cuski:
Well, this is great, but this problem existed on a different level ever since the dawn of simulation.

It would be nice to see it fixed, but honestly, I have no constructive comments on how it *could* be fixed... so, until I do, I'll keep my mouth shut and live with it.

Other people should learn this too (ie. zzzspace).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yup. I don't know why folks can't just accept this fact. I suspect it may be because some have not been around long enough to know that this has always been a problem. It's nothing new, and I'm sure if it could be dealt with, it would have by now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not just make the dots a bit larger and appear at longer distances. I don't see why it can't be fixed?

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

TooCooL34
02-20-2004, 11:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snoop_Baron:
Why not just make the dots a bit larger and appear at longer distances. I don't see why it can't be fixed?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cause they think it's enough.
Fw-190 maybe is bad example, but this is good example of their conviction, I think. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



=815=TooCooL34 in =815=Squad, South Korea

--Quick Spec--
WinXP Pro, AthlonXP 3200+, 1024DDR, FX5900XT 128MB, two SW pr2, TIR2

Slammin_
02-20-2004, 11:28 PM
Making the dots larger is an option I guess, but I have yet to run into a dot and not have enough time to get set up to engage the 'dot' in FB.

In Lomac, it is a little bit harder because the dots are moving 2-3 times as fast. You have very little time to do anything if the 'dot' has spotted you as well.

WUAF_Badsight
02-20-2004, 11:50 PM
id like the planes to be more visible at : . . .

1) longer ranges

2) the plane to become identifiabl (type , markings) at longer ranges

3) when looking at then with the ground & trees as a background

. . . . . than we do now