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View Full Version : No more Optional Objectives. I swear to God, Ubisoft, NO MORE OPTIONAL OBJECTIVES



burnfist23
12-10-2014, 01:05 AM
I know Unity's aren't as much of a hassle and I was honestly okay with them in Brotherhood and Revelations (except for the tank), but between some of the nonsensical objectives (using pistol in a sneaking mission?) and the unresponsive controls, these have quickly become the biggest pain butt since Assassin's Creed 3 and I was so hoping that Unity would finally drop them only to be completely disappointed (even more than I already am with the game). Ubisoft, I beg you, please, alongside doing some legit quality control, fixing up the responsiveness of the controls, and locking content behind BS like the companion app and Initiates, please drop the freaking Optional Objectives. Or at the very least, bring it down to one objective like Brotherhood and Revelations (and make them reasonable).

cawatrooper9
12-10-2014, 01:59 AM
The nice thing about "optional objectives" is that they're optional...

m4r-k7
12-10-2014, 02:03 AM
They havn't really bothered me so far in Unity as they aren't as ridiculous as they were in AC 3 and AC 4. I just ignore them anyway. However, if you are going for 100% completion then it is ridiculously annoying.

SixKeys
12-10-2014, 02:06 AM
Unity's OOs were really easy. The problem is they feel totally pointless and archaic. They should have just replaced OOs with the new mission objectives that unlock new ways to kill. It makes no sense to have both.

Cactiii
12-10-2014, 02:11 AM
It's not like Brotherhood where if you don't achieve them it screams in your face "YOU DIDN'T COMPLETE THE OBJECTIVE!!!" and I haven't had a problem with it these last few games. It's optional and it's easy to ignore as well, so I don't see a need to get rid of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I *think* that you can disable it showing up in settings.

Pr0metheus 1962
12-10-2014, 02:29 AM
I like the optional objectives, as long as they're clearly explained at the start of a mission. I like them because they give you a good reason to replay a mission, and I like the fact that you can do all of them or one at a time. I think they're much better now, as before they were sometimes ridiculously hard.

cryo_burned
12-10-2014, 02:34 AM
Nothing wrong with optional objectives, I had issues in the Ezio games, i.e complete assassin tomb in xx:xx minutes, or don't touch the ground, or play the tomb without desynchronizing, haven't had any problems in ac3 and up

D.I.D.
12-10-2014, 02:35 AM
Unity's optional objectives are my favourites so far. Most missions, I started without even remembering to look at those objectives, and on completing the mission all I got was a couple of polite little ticks to say if I'd done them. Most times I'd have done one or all without knowing what I was meant to be doing.

The new layer of truly optional objectives, with no reward other than the gameplay circumstances that happen in front of you, are fantastic. The ones they set for me feel just as good as the bonus-free ones I think up for myself (for example, using an underground entrance or some weird wall jump into a guarded area even though the mission isn't listing any secret entrances). Do not be taking away my new OOs, Mr. or Ms. Burnfist, or I shall bite my thumb at you.

burnfist23
12-10-2014, 02:36 AM
Unity's OOs were really easy. The problem is they feel totally pointless and archaic. They should have just replaced OOs with the new mission objectives that unlock new ways to kill. It makes no sense to have both.

Exactly! That would've been sooo much better!

DynaRider
12-10-2014, 02:46 AM
Heck... more game play is always a good deal as far as I'm concerned. I like the fact that I can spend days and sometime weeks playing through a game and as long as they are "optional" objectives so you can skip them it's all good for me. I'm not interested in ripping through a game to see how quickly I can complete it and one of the reasons I like the AC series is the ability to play at a leisurely pace enjoying the graphics and scenery. Some of the places in Rogue remind me of my grandparent's farm in Missouri where I used to love roaming around in the woods, creeks and fields when I was a kid. If I don't get 100% synchronization it's no big thing for me. I'm amazed at the attention to detail and realism UBI is able to achieve in these games.

burnfist23
12-10-2014, 04:07 AM
Some of you are right. Maybe I was just venting and should just take a break. I finished the game and was trying to complete the mission where you assassinate Kessogawase and between the finicky free running control that sent me to the ground and got me detected and trying to shoot Kesogawase with the puckling gun, I was really pulling my hair and I've had several moments like this in every game post-Ezio saga (especially AC3).

Matt.mc
12-10-2014, 05:46 AM
I don't really mind them in Unity. But if they were fully taken out I would be happier

Rafe Harwood
12-10-2014, 09:30 AM
Optional objectives need to stay. Heck, it would be cooler if there were more of them.

They are a great way of getting you interacting further with the story/mission. They add frustration and that happy smile when you finally manage to get the suckers done correctly (time trials/keeping off floor as given earlier are great when you finally succeed).

They are optional as has been said. If you don't want to do them, then don't.

If that messes with your OCD for getting 100% completed, go play Thomas the tank engine or something else that's got an easy mode so you can finish the game in six hours and just storm through everything ;)

It's all good fun. Just think, what other games frustrate, annoy, piss off and ultimately reward you with nothing more than good feelings and you are happy about that.

Achieving this play on 'feelings' is an amazing thing to be able to do with a fictional computer game ;)

STDlyMcStudpants
12-10-2014, 09:43 AM
I would love optional objectives if they gave a money bonus (especially in a game like unity) instead of being tied to sync and trophies...
Or if they unlocked weapons...
I dont care really.. just as long as they become PURELY optional as their name states.
Where you can get your platinum without touching them.
Whats wrong with AC2s structure?
A set rule you have to follow or fail...i want to go back to that....
I hate being told how i have to kill my targets...

cryo_burned
12-10-2014, 10:44 AM
I would love optional objectives if they gave a money bonus (especially in a game like unity) instead of being tied to sync and trophies...
Or if they unlocked weapons...
I dont care really.. just as long as they become PURELY optional as their name states.
Where you can get your platinum without touching them.
Whats wrong with AC2s structure?
A set rule you have to follow or fail...i want to go back to that....
I hate being told how i have to kill my targets...

The whole deal with the completion is based off the animus, and it's more 100% sync than it is completion. You can play the game however you want, but in reality you are reliving the genetic memory of a person, but the data isn't perfect, so the animus software compensates by allowing you to run around and do whatever as a simulation, not doing what the person whose memory it is did. The optional objectives only mean that you performed a mission the same way the person did in history. When you do it the same way they did, you synchronize more completely between you and the historical figure. If you want to achieve 100% synchronization (which counts towards completion) you have to go through the memory sequences and do what the ancestor did. This apart of what makes the game Assassin's Creed, one of its building blocks. It should stay in the game. If you complete the optional objectives, you achieve better sync. If you don't complete them, they are optional, choosing or failing them won't cause you to fail a mission or keep you from progressing in the game.

wvstolzing
12-10-2014, 12:39 PM
I think they figured out how to do them right with AC4, with a couple of strange exceptions (the crocodile skinning, obviously). ACU's are quite reasonable as well.

RinoTheBouncer
12-10-2014, 01:59 PM
I really hope they go away. They don't add anything to the experience. I'd rather have them become mandatory than remain optional. I mean let's be logical about it. We're using the Animus to reach a certain goal, to extract certain info., why does it really matter if we're 100% synched or not? when has optional objectives given us any extra data or cutscenes or hell, even made the experience more seamless since we're full synched that we navigate through memories easily? never. So what's the point?

We're not using the Animus to earn a high score on some leaderboards. We're doing it to know a certain thing about a certain character in a certain period of time. So I don't see how these "challenges" improve or change anything. In ACII, regarding Altair's armor, I was actually surprised when Desmond was told "in order to achieve perfect synch, you have to get that armor" I was like "who do I need to achieve perfect synch?".

Like, either give a me good reason to do them or take them away. I'd rather have story-driven challenging missions and puzzles than have pointless percentages and collectibles and call them side or optional missions/quests.

Jackdaw951
12-10-2014, 05:42 PM
The nice thing about "optional objectives" is that they're optional...

That's my thought as well. These don't bother me, and I usually ignore them. (Sometimes they're fun, though.) I don't ever go for 100% completion/sync/achievements anymore. It's too OCD, and not fun at all.

Not being able to get at content locked behind websites that don't work and apps for systems I don't have--THAT bothers me.



I really hope they go away. They don't add anything to the experience. I'd rather have them become mandatory than remain optional.

Oh, God, no. Just . . . no. We need more options, not less. It's fine just the way it is. If anything, I'd like to see listening to conversations and tailing without detection become optional, rather than frustrating requirements.

Shahkulu101
12-10-2014, 06:15 PM
Unity's are okay bit some seem a bit arbitrary though. There was one where I had to sabotage 3 alarm bells, but I completed the mission by dismantling one and just climbing through the window. So because I found a more efficient way to do the mission I'm penalized and didn't 'fully' complete the mission? Come off it. And the other two alarm bells were on the other side of the palace. Would have been completely pointless had I bothered to break them.

It's a good thing that I didn't care about attaining 100% sync due to Unity's awful side missions anyway.

Rafe Harwood
12-10-2014, 06:17 PM
We're not using the Animus to earn a high score on some leaderboards. We're doing it to know a certain thing about a certain character in a certain period of time. So I don't see how these "challenges" improve or change anything. In ACII, regarding Altair's armor, I was actually surprised when Desmond was told "in order to achieve perfect synch, you have to get that armor" I was like "who do I need to achieve perfect synch?"

So don't do them. What's the problem?

JustPlainQuirky
12-10-2014, 06:21 PM
The nice thing about "optional objectives" is that they're optional...

This.

Don't like them, don't do them.

I understand if you dont want to deal with transmedia like initiates to 100%, but optional objectives are a really simple in-game obstacle. You have to earn 100%. You don't get it handed out for free.

Shahkulu101
12-10-2014, 06:43 PM
This.

Don't like them, don't do them.

I understand if you dont want to deal with transmedia like initiates to 100%, but optional objectives are a really simple in-game obstacle. You have to earn 100%. You don't get it handed out for free.

They ruin the missions by making them worse, not harder. They are really unnecessary and add nothing positive to the game. What's the point in having an open ended mission and then the game restricting your freedom of play? It's daft and counterproductive. It's just bad content, people have a right to complain. The same way that a side mission is bad, or that 500 chests covering the map is bad. If you don't like something and believe it's flawed you don't just accept it and say "Oh well, guess I have to EARN 100% sync, so I don't have a right to complain about game design I feel is bad!" No, you want the entirety of the game to be good. That's not the case in any game, but that doesn't make the criticism invalid.

That being said I don't care about 100% sync anyway so I just ignore them... but I used to so understand the grievances.

RinoTheBouncer
12-10-2014, 06:46 PM
So don't do them. What's the problem?

Itís not as simple as that. Itís not an outfit that I can choose to wear it or not wear it. Thereís a completion bar for the game and for missions. When you donít do them, you donít get to finish 100%. It has nothing to do with me being too ďnoobĒ to be able to finish them or anything, but Iíd rather do objectives that contribute to the story, not skin alligators while tailing someone on a boat (hello ACIV!). My point in my post was discussing how illogical it is for Desmond, whoís in a race against type, would be worried about perfect synchronization.

SlyTrooper
12-10-2014, 06:56 PM
Optional objectives are fine as long as they aren't ridiculous like some have been in the past. Getting 100% sync is important to me because I get a great sense of achievement knowing I have done everything that can be done (not that I overcame a challenge). As long as we don't have a repeat of the tank mission then they can stay. But even if they aren't as hard as the tank mission, they should still be made so that they don't restrict how you play. Something like "kill 3 guards with the phantom blade" or "Sabotage 2 bells" is fine. But if it's "Don't get detected" or "Don't take any damage" it's stupid. It just makes it boring trying to do it. Ubi also need to be more sensible on other things required to get 100%. Here's a list of dumb things they have done in AC:

- AC1 flags & Templars. I don't mind running around & getting them, but not even an icon on the map? That took me days to do with a guide.
- ACB tank mission plus other stupid objectives. "Don't take any damage". Is that a joke? We're in a tank! And what's worse is that if you fail, there are no checkpoints; you have to play the entire mission up to that point again. And then there are other stupid objectives that are ridiculously hard to get, but I'm not going into that.
- AC3 Hickey & naval mission. So the sequence with hickey had two really hard objectives. One involved catching him without pushing anyone (extremely hard to do since Connor does it randomly a lot of the time). The second (the naval mission) was very hard to do once the ship was fully upgraded. You had to destroy the ships by their powder reserves, but it was really hard to get any weaknesses open because you kill them really easily. There's also no way to lower your damage without starting a new game.
- ACIV remaining undetected in a ship whilst trying to find another ship over a massive restrictive area with very little room to dodge enemies. This one speaks for itself.
- AC Rogue Final legendary ship (five stars). This isn't hard because of an optional objective; it's just hard in general. For some reason the game went from being a decent challenge with the four star ships to being super meat boy. I'm not joking when I say it took me almost 30 attempts & I barely beat it. Why such a difficulty curve?
- AC Unity Companion app & Initiates. This isn't as bad for me personally, since I've been able to obtain a smart phone to use the app, but for other people this is a middle finger to the face. To complete the game to 100% you need to be a low level in Initiates (which unlocks an artifact - not too bad) & you need to play the app & unlock the rest of the artifacts to get 100% of them. This is the worst way to make a game; assuming that the consumer owns another piece of tech & actually wants to use it to complete a game. Like I said, I have overcome this through the help of my family's generosity, but what about everyone else? Stupid.

Just so everyone is aware, I have done all these things & got 100% in each game - not including Unity which I am working on right now.

Rafe Harwood
12-10-2014, 07:02 PM
Itís not as simple as that. Itís not an outfit that I can choose to wear it or not wear it. Thereís a completion bar for the game and for missions. When you donít do them, you donít get to finish 100%. It has nothing to do with me being too ďnoobĒ to be able to finish them or anything, but Iíd rather do objectives that contribute to the story, not skin alligators while tailing someone on a boat (hello ACIV!). My point in my post was discussing how illogical it is for Desmond, whoís in a race against type, would be worried about perfect synchronization.

Actually, you are the one who said you don't play for leaderboards yet that is exactly what you are doing. You are 'trying' to get the platinum trophies (I assume, otherwise 'don't do them' still applies). It's still a bragging right thing.

Do them, or not, it makes no difference to those of us who like them and play them because we like them.

If you don't like them, don't play them. It's not rocket science.

If you want 100% completion, complete the game to 100%. You don't get 100% for playing and thinking "Nah, I can't be arsed to do the optional stuff. You shouldn't need to do optional stuff for 100%".

Here's a news flash. 100% means 100%. Everything.

Shahkulu101
12-10-2014, 07:09 PM
Actually, you are the one who said you don't play for leaderboards yet that is exactly what you are doing. You are 'trying' to get the platinum trophies (I assume, otherwise 'don't do them' still applies). It's still a bragging right thing.

Do them, or not, it makes no difference to those of us who like them and play them because we like them.

If you don't like them, don't play them. It's not rocket science.

If you want 100% completion, complete the game to 100%. You don't get 100% for playing and thinking "Nah, I can't be arsed to do the optional stuff. You shouldn't need to do optional stuff for 100%".

Here's a news flash. 100% means 100%. Everything.

And everything in the game should be worth playing should it not?

I suppose people have no right to complain about countless pointless collectibles or poor quality side missions?

SlyTrooper
12-10-2014, 07:18 PM
And everything in the game should be worth playing should it not?

I suppose people have no right to complain about countless pointless collectibles or poor quality side missions?

Bingo! Right on the money right there. You basically summed up my large post above.

RinoTheBouncer
12-10-2014, 07:29 PM
Actually, you are the one who said you don't play for leaderboards yet that is exactly what you are doing. You are 'trying' to get the platinum trophies (I assume, otherwise 'don't do them' still applies). It's still a bragging right thing.

Do them, or not, it makes no difference to those of us who like them and play them because we like them.

If you don't like them, don't play them. It's not rocket science.

If you want 100% completion, complete the game to 100%. You don't get 100% for playing and thinking "Nah, I can't be arsed to do the optional stuff. You shouldn't need to do optional stuff for 100%".

Here's a news flash. 100% means 100%. Everything.

I said Desmond or the “you” in modern day shouldn’t be arsed about them in the first place, not me. Because when Desmond is in a race against time to save the world, he shouldn’t be worried about 100%, therefore, it doesn’t make sense in terms of story. I’d rather have 20 sequences with so much story and mandatory gameplay in them rathe than running around collecting flags or feathers or data fragments that do not unlock anything. I’m a consumer, I have every right to express myself regarding a product that I’m buying.

It’s neither offensive nor reductive. It’s why people join these forums. If in your opinion, every argument here is to be solved by saying “Don’t like it, don’t play it” then they better shut the forums down and only leave a support line cause what’s the point of expressing dislike towards something?

I do ignore the stuff that I do not like. But here I’m voicing my opinion to a better try of side missions that feel more motivating and more logical with the story.


And everything in the game should be worth playing should it not?

I suppose people have no right to complain about countless pointless collectibles or poor quality side missions?

Exactly. I don’t understand why some people make it sound like we’re not allowed to comment about the optional stuff or say the famous “don’t like it? don’t play it!”. I love AC and by writing about what I like and dislike, I’m voting for a better product in my opinion. It’s the reason why we have forums.

There are so many “optional” side quests in AC that are neither fun, nor story driven. I’d rather have 7 murder mysteries for example that have a proper story than have 30 that are the same. I’d rather have 5 more mandatory story missions than having to redo these missions while skinning an alligator just to fill up a gauge or go around town chasing after feathers or data fragments.

johnsmith145
12-10-2014, 07:34 PM
I disabled all HUD but the minimap in Unity for the first playthough. Wow, did I enjoy the gameplay more than the other games... That was until I realised they hadn't removed the optional objectives. I just thought this would have been obvious since the mission structure was opened up so much.

Perhaps the funniest thing is that disabling the HUD by holding the center camera button doesn't hide the pop-ups... You have unspent Sync Points remaining

Rafe Harwood
12-10-2014, 08:48 PM
I said Desmond or the “you” in modern day shouldn’t be arsed about them in the first place, not me. Because when Desmond is in a race against time to save the world, he shouldn’t be worried about 100%, therefore, it doesn’t make sense in terms of story. I’d rather have 20 sequences with so much story and mandatory gameplay in them rathe than running around collecting flags or feathers or data fragments that do not unlock anything. I’m a consumer, I have every right to express myself regarding a product that I’m buying.

It’s neither offensive nor reductive. It’s why people join these forums. If in your opinion, every argument here is to be solved by saying “Don’t like it, don’t play it” then they better shut the forums down and only leave a support line cause what’s the point of expressing dislike towards something?

I do ignore the stuff that I do not like. But here I’m voicing my opinion to a better try of side missions that feel more motivating and more logical with the story.

Absolutely you have every right to complain that you are not happy. But it's the reason for you not being happy that is at question more than anything else here.

A lot of people (myself obviously included) like the side quests. So, to keep you happy, they need to drop these options and make those of us who do enjoy them unhappy?

The thing is, I have never taken close account I guess, but do we know how time works in the animus? It certainly isn't 1:1. Therefore, making sure to follow in an ancestors exact footsteps (within reason) probalby adds miliseconds (if that) to actual real time. Should Desmond/MD protagonist worry about that? Nope. I would care more that I did everything as the original memory owner did to make sure the future memories are not tarnished by missing things they had done originally.

Now this is where someone pops up and says "but it makes no difference to gameplay"... well it does make a difference in my (and a lot of other peoples) imagination regarding the play world.

As we have already decided, these are optional. So you are covered in not wanting them. Those of us who do like them are likewise covered.

I am not trying to take anything away from your enjoyment of the game, I am trying to be the middle ground that says both sides are winning right now. If they are removed, it becomes very lop sided and isn't fair on those who like the extra :)

wvstolzing
12-10-2014, 09:35 PM
The 'middle ground' might be to change the status of optional mission objectives to something like the 'Abstergo challenge's in AC4.

If I remember correctly, there was no 'trophy' related to those, and they didn't reflect on the overall 'completion percentage'; though you could *stil*l keep track of your progress with respect to the challenges, etc.

So, optional mission objectives could have a similar status, with some *non-exclusive* rewards.

melbye82
12-10-2014, 09:50 PM
I don't mind them as long as they aren't designed poorlly or lacks sense. The ones i dislike the most are the don't get hurt ones and then they throw the gamer into a situation where it is very hard to not get hurt. The ones from Unity specifically that i hated the most involved killing from hiding-places ledge-assassinations or air assassinations because for some reason they decided to break these mechanics. The first assassination-mission in the Notre Dame was absolute hell because no matter what i did i either couldn't lure them over to my hiding-spot or when the enemy was standing right infront of my hiding-spot Arno absolutely refused to kill him

Rafe Harwood
12-10-2014, 10:39 PM
The 'middle ground' might be to change the status of optional mission objectives to something like the 'Abstergo challenge's in AC4.

If I remember correctly, there was no 'trophy' related to those, and they didn't reflect on the overall 'completion percentage'; though you could *stil*l keep track of your progress with respect to the challenges, etc.

So, optional mission objectives could have a similar status, with some *non-exclusive* rewards.

I can understand and appreciate your willingness to negotiate.

But wouldn't doing a mission 100% involve the extra pieces? Otherwise you would only be doing the mission say 95%.

Is the issue solely to do with the fact that there are trophies/achievements that you cannot get without doing the optional pieces?

wvstolzing
12-10-2014, 10:46 PM
But wouldn't doing a mission 100% involve the extra pieces? Otherwise you would only be doing the mission say 95%.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'pieces'.


Is the issue solely to do with the fact that there are trophies/achievements that you cannot get without doing the optional pieces?

That seems to be the key issue; that, and the fact that the intro/start screen tells that you're at a percentage lower than 100, when you know you've, etc. etc.

If optional *mission* objectives were mission-based 'Abstergo challenges', there'd be no mission percentiles displayed anywhere, and no related trophies; but there'd be less conspicuous 'Abstergo challenge percentiles', which interested people could still try to beat.

RinoTheBouncer
12-10-2014, 11:29 PM
Absolutely you have every right to complain that you are not happy. But it's the reason for you not being happy that is at question more than anything else here.

A lot of people (myself obviously included) like the side quests. So, to keep you happy, they need to drop these options and make those of us who do enjoy them unhappy?

The thing is, I have never taken close account I guess, but do we know how time works in the animus? It certainly isn't 1:1. Therefore, making sure to follow in an ancestors exact footsteps (within reason) probalby adds miliseconds (if that) to actual real time. Should Desmond/MD protagonist worry about that? Nope. I would care more that I did everything as the original memory owner did to make sure the future memories are not tarnished by missing things they had done originally.

Now this is where someone pops up and says "but it makes no difference to gameplay"... well it does make a difference in my (and a lot of other peoples) imagination regarding the play world.

As we have already decided, these are optional. So you are covered in not wanting them. Those of us who do like them are likewise covered.

I am not trying to take anything away from your enjoyment of the game, I am trying to be the middle ground that says both sides are winning right now. If they are removed, it becomes very lop sided and isn't fair on those who like the extra :)

Iím sorry, I didnít mean to sound like I wanna take away the fun from someone else. I only meant to express my thoughts about some improvements to the matter. Maybe if they can make full synching opens up ďrepressed memoriesĒ of some sort. That will feel a lot more rewarding than just a percentage and it would make much more sense in terms of story.

Good question about time in the Animus. How do we know if it is or if it isnít 1:1 time? I mean of course itís not years, but maybe because the Animus fast forwards between memories and given that Desmond doesnít free-roam but rather move from one mission to another, it could be 1:1. Like the mission itself would be a few hours, from free-running from one point to another and then it fast forwards to the right moment (change in day/night cycle) and then it he performs the Assassination and it finishes.

I also wonder how speech and the cutscenes occur. Does Desmond speak those words or do they just happen like a cutscene but he sees from a first person perspective? I keep wondering about that too.

Rafe Harwood
12-10-2014, 11:52 PM
f optional *mission* objectives were mission-based 'Abstergo challenges', there'd be no mission percentiles displayed anywhere, and no related trophies; but there'd be less conspicuous 'Abstergo challenge percentiles', which interested people could still try to beat.


I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound like I wanna take away the fun from someone else. I only meant to express my thoughts about some improvements to the matter. Maybe if they can make full synching opens up “repressed memories” of some sort. That will feel a lot more rewarding than just a percentage and it would make much more sense in terms of story

Ok, just an idea. Optional parts of the mission are moved to a different wording. They are removed from completing the game (they already are in actual fact, you get the game completed even if not 100%).

Now there is an added trophy/achievement for doing the 'optional' pieces. The Platinum (PS) and Complete everything (hexbox) achievments now incorporate the new 'optional trophy' as part of their game completion bits.

That has done what you guys are asking, but it has left exactly the same scenario whereby you have to do them in order to get the OCD completion for trophies/achievments. No overall change.

And yes, it would be great if there was some reward for actually doing the optional pieces... like getting the platinum or 100% ;)

M8sT3r AsSASs1n
12-11-2014, 03:32 AM
Exactly! That would've been sooo much better!

I definitely have to Agree My Favorite Mission [Spoiler] (if you didnt watch any pre-release videos) was the confessional kill if every main story assassination had black box objectives that unlocked badass cinematic jugular slicing action Assassins creed Fans Would go Bonkers!!!!!!!!!

M8sT3r AsSASs1n
12-11-2014, 03:39 AM
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound like I wanna take away the fun from someone else. I only meant to express my thoughts about some improvements to the matter. Maybe if they can make full synching opens up “repressed memories” of some sort. That will feel a lot more rewarding than just a percentage and it would make much more sense in terms of story.

Good question about time in the Animus. How do we know if it is or if it isn’t 1:1 time? I mean of course it’s not years, but maybe because the Animus fast forwards between memories and given that Desmond doesn’t free-roam but rather move from one mission to another, it could be 1:1. Like the mission itself would be a few hours, from free-running from one point to another and then it fast forwards to the right moment (change in day/night cycle) and then it he performs the Assassination and it finishes.

I also wonder how speech and the cutscenes occur. Does Desmond speak those words or do they just happen like a cutscene but he sees from a first person perspective? I keep wondering about that too.

I definitely believe time in animus would not be 1:1 they kind of semi explain that in brotherhood or revelations I forget which. Desmond explains in his intro clip that years of experience are absorbed in a matter of months. I'm sure it would be similar to that of a lucid dream where you can have a long period of time pass by in your dream but you only sleep 6-8 hours, or however long your dream actually occurs.

cawatrooper9
12-11-2014, 03:46 AM
I definitely believe time in animus would not be 1:1 they kind of semi explain that in brotherhood or revelations I forget which. Desmond explains in his intro clip that years of experience are absorbed in a matter of months. I'm sure it would be similar to that of a lucid dream where you can have a long period of time pass by in your dream but you only sleep 6-8 hours, or however long your dream actually occurs.

Interesting thought, kinda reminds me of Inception. However, remember in AC1, when the Animus would actually say that it would "fast forward to a more recent memory" (or something along those lines)? I think that kind of supports the idea that memories are relived in real time, but also divided up into relevant chunks to be viewed.

STDlyMcStudpants
12-11-2014, 06:29 AM
The whole deal with the completion is based off the animus, and it's more 100% sync than it is completion. You can play the game however you want, but in reality you are reliving the genetic memory of a person, but the data isn't perfect, so the animus software compensates by allowing you to run around and do whatever as a simulation, not doing what the person whose memory it is did. The optional objectives only mean that you performed a mission the same way the person did in history. When you do it the same way they did, you synchronize more completely between you and the historical figure. If you want to achieve 100% synchronization (which counts towards completion) you have to go through the memory sequences and do what the ancestor did. This apart of what makes the game Assassin's Creed, one of its building blocks. It should stay in the game. If you complete the optional objectives, you achieve better sync. If you don't complete them, they are optional, choosing or failing them won't cause you to fail a mission or keep you from progressing in the game.

Yeah its based off of memory.. that theory goes to sh** now that we can customize our characters skills and loud outs, doesnt it? :)

Fatal-Feit
12-11-2014, 11:55 AM
B and R's optional objectives are much, much worse. There's literally no check points. If you get caught or something, you had to start ALL over.

It's honestly not that bad in IV, RO, or Unity, but I agree. For #@$%'s sake, just remove it. It's doesn't offer replay ability nor does it enhance the user's experience/difficulty. It's just a nuisance and an inconvenience. What I loved about AC:1 and 2's campaigns were that they weren't, at all, hinged by them. We could absorb the story and take the gameplay and stealth at our own pace and leisure. It was not only more fun but immersing.

In AC:RO and Unity, I found myself constantly pausing the story or mission every 1-2 minute to check for any optional objective (which does a POOR job of updating). It really takes me out of the game. :(

rrebe
12-11-2014, 02:17 PM
I like optional objectives, they bring more challenge to the mission while not preventing me from actually completing it. The first time playing a mission I don't focus on the optionals that much but I'll replay it later to get them if I didn't get them the first time. It's no big deal.
And about the 100% syncing.. who said 100% competition should be easy. It's not like they're impossibly hard to do (in Unity, anyway)

Jackdaw951
12-11-2014, 02:50 PM
I like optional objectives, they bring more challenge to the mission while not preventing me from actually completing it. The first time playing a mission I don't focus on the optionals that much but I'll replay it later to get them if I didn't get them the first time. It's no big deal.
And about the 100% syncing.. who said 100% competition should be easy. It's not like they're impossibly hard to do (in Unity, anyway)

I really don't understand the disagreements with this simple premise. Optional is optional, as in you don't have to do it to progress. It adds choice, which is what we all want, no? Having difficult conditions be optional is the perfect way to include the most gamers of varying skill levels (or levels of interest in difficult chores) while still rewarding the most skilled, persistent completionists.

SlyTrooper
12-11-2014, 06:43 PM
I really don't understand the disagreements with this simple premise. Optional is optional, as in you don't have to do it to progress. It adds choice, which is what we all want, no? Having difficult conditions be optional is the perfect way to include the most gamers of varying skill levels (or levels of interest in difficult chores) while still rewarding the most skilled, persistent completionists.

Doing side-missions is optional, but if they're boring & pointless we argue that we want them changed or removed. This is the same; you're just taking the word "optional" too literally.

Shahkulu101
12-11-2014, 07:24 PM
Tower Defense is optional.

Therefore all complaints regarding it are null and void. :rolleyes:

STDlyMcStudpants
12-12-2014, 07:05 AM
Doing side-missions is optional, but if they're boring & pointless we argue that we want them changed or removed. This is the same; you're just taking the word "optional" too literally.

THIS... side missions are just there..they arent required for anything in unity...
They are bonus content for you to do if you want more of the game... THIS is what optional objectives should be.
Optional objectives are no longer optional when you have to do them to get a trophy.
You arent forced to do optional objectives to progress through the story... but if you want full credit for progressing you have to do them.
'You infiltrated the palace. but you didnt go out of your way to climb on the other side of it where you dont need to go at all to locate a room to sabotage the 2 other bells, so doesnt count.'
What kind of bs is that?
Arno was a dumba** if he went out of his way to the otherside of the building just to disarm 2 bells

Namikaze_17
12-12-2014, 09:47 AM
I don't mind them when they're not ridiculous... -__-

RinoTheBouncer
12-12-2014, 02:43 PM
I definitely believe time in animus would not be 1:1 they kind of semi explain that in brotherhood or revelations I forget which. Desmond explains in his intro clip that years of experience are absorbed in a matter of months. I'm sure it would be similar to that of a lucid dream where you can have a long period of time pass by in your dream but you only sleep 6-8 hours, or however long your dream actually occurs.

It could be, I don’t know. But the 1:1 thing could be explained by fast forwarding in memories within the Animus. I mean the idea of the Animus working similarly to Lucid Dreaming is very interesting. But since there were these “fast forward in memory to a more recent one” voice overs gave me the impression that most of the unnecessary periods are skipped over. So maybe the real Desmond is just going straight from one missions to another without going off his way to explore.

I don’t know. We don’t have much info. about this and it’s definitely very interesting.


And yes, it would be great if there was some reward for actually doing the optional pieces... like getting the platinum or 100% ;)

Same thing goes for the collectibles. Like AC:R had us collect about 30 Animus Data Fragments to unlock all Desmond’s Journey missions. Those were really rewarding, while in ACIV, you collect like what, 200 of those? and for what? nothing. I hate the idea that we’re doing things just for the sake of doing them, especially when they’re very boring and repetitive objectives or just out of place, like skinning an Alligator in the middle of a tailing mission where Edward has to follow a boat on foot.

Some of these optional objectives help expanding the experience and adding a replay value and more things to do after you finish the actual game and encourages you to go back and replay missions if you’re a completion-ist.

But what I’m hoping for is that those side missions, optional objectives and collectibles to have a purpose, something that feels rewarding. Games like Final Fantasy for example, they have side quests and monsters that are much stronger than the final boss, that you need to be so damn powerful to beat them, and once you do, you get the most powerful weapon, now ok, that’s cool so far, but tell me, what will I possibly do with that weapon? to be able to beat a monster that is 10 times harder than the final boss who’s initially super hard, means that I’m so powerful that I really don’t need that weapon or Armor anymore. Same goes for the advanced ram that we get after beating all Legendary Ships or an outfit that unlocks after finishing nearly every other side quest.

It feels like “Wow, I got this, finally”, but the next moment, you’d think “so what am I gonna do with it? so this and the optional objectives that only raise a bar to 100% don’t give me a motive to go for them, that’s why I tend to ignore these most of the time and just forget the game after the credits roll. Yet if these unlockables have some story value or overall improvement to the gameplay and further sequences and are sort of integrated into the main gameplay like Mass Effect 2 for example, where there are loyalty missions that aren’t mandatory, yet they make you feel like you’re obliged to do them, because there’s so much story-telling in them, and deep effects on the ending of the game and the next game as well.

To me, that’s the perfect type of optional objectives. The type that you feel that they’ve been put for a purpose other than being a filler. Solving the first 3-5 Murder Mysteries was fun, but doing so 30 times and repeating the exact same steps will eventually get boring.

Maybe I went far beyond the topic of the thread, but I meant to say that I wish that all these side quests become more story driven and actually affect the gameplay, rather than just fill up bars :D

SixKeys
12-12-2014, 04:59 PM
Same thing goes for the collectibles. Like AC:R had us collect about 30 Animus Data Fragments to unlock all Desmond’s Journey missions. Those were really rewarding, while in ACIV, you collect like what, 200 of those? and for what? nothing.

Not entirely true. You only needed something like 50 fragments (out of 100) to unlock all the Desmond missions, which were widely regarded as some of the worst content in the game along with Den Defense. So you collected 50 fragments to unlock some missions very few people cared about (which Ubi seems to have known ahead of time, as the Desmond missions were entirely optional) and then the remaining 50 were just completely pointless. AC2 at least gave you incentive in that with 50 feathers, you got a cool new weapon, and at 100 you got your mom back.

Jackdaw951
12-12-2014, 09:07 PM
Same thing goes for the collectibles. Like AC:R had us collect about 30 Animus Data Fragments to unlock all Desmond’s Journey missions. Those were really rewarding, while in ACIV, you collect like what, 200 of those? and for what? nothing. I hate the idea that we’re doing things just for the sake of doing them, especially when they’re very boring and repetitive objectives or just out of place, like skinning an Alligator in the middle of a tailing mission where Edward has to follow a boat on foot.

Some of these optional objectives help expanding the experience and adding a replay value and more things to do after you finish the actual game and encourages you to go back and replay missions if you’re a completion-ist.

But what I’m hoping for is that those side missions, optional objectives and collectibles to have a purpose, something that feels rewarding.


Totally agree. The thing is that I found going after some of those animus fragments in BF fun--those that you have to figure out how to dive into from above. I would eliminate all fragments that you just walk into, and then I would make the remaining ones mean something in the story. Getting them for its own sake gets old fast.

wvstolzing
12-12-2014, 09:10 PM
Totally agree. The thing is that I found going after some of those animus fragments in BF fun--those that you have to figure out how to dive into from above. I would eliminate all fragments that you just walk into, and then I would make the remaining ones mean something in the story. Getting them for its own sake gets old fast.

That was also the case with several cockades in ACU. I totally agree that making each collectible into a mini platforming puzzle is a great idea.

Rafe Harwood
12-12-2014, 09:17 PM
Well this thread is a bit of a mixed bag.

Several subjects all covered at once here.

Optional objectives within story missions and side quests are seperate entities.

Jackdaw951
12-12-2014, 09:29 PM
That was also the case with several cockades in ACU. I totally agree that making each collectible into a mini platforming puzzle is a great idea.

Yeah, spot on. Same deal. Keep the interesting ones, make them mean something, dispose of the rest.

Landruner
12-13-2014, 02:01 AM
I know Unity's aren't as much of a hassle and I was honestly okay with them in Brotherhood and Revelations (except for the tank), but between some of the nonsensical objectives (using pistol in a sneaking mission?) and the unresponsive controls, these have quickly become the biggest pain butt since Assassin's Creed 3 and I was so hoping that Unity would finally drop them only to be completely disappointed (even more than I already am with the game). Ubisoft, I beg you, please, alongside doing some legit quality control, fixing up the responsiveness of the controls, and locking content behind BS like the companion app and Initiates, please drop the freaking Optional Objectives. Or at the very least, bring it down to one objective like Brotherhood and Revelations (and make them reasonable).

The secondary objectives will be less annoying if they were perfectly fitted to the mission that they are attached to (which most of the time they don't, and most often they don't even make sense in the action neither) - Furthermore for having a total completion and synchronization of the sequence and memories they are not any longer optional since you can't get "full synchro" if you fail those "optional objectives".

I agree with you unless they remove them or they change them and make them more adequate and coherent to the action or the game-play, I don't see the point to have them for future games - Since Brotherhood they are not any longer a challenge for the players they are just an annoying shore for gamers and assassin goers.

STDlyMcStudpants
12-13-2014, 02:09 AM
The secondary objectives will be less annoying if they were perfectly fitted to the mission that they are attached to (which most of the time they don't, and most often they don't even make sense in the action neither) - Furthermore for having a total completion and synchronization of the sequence and memories they are not any longer optional since you can't get "full synchro" if you fail those "optional objectives".

I agree with you unless they remove them or they change them and make them more adequate and coherent to the action or the game-play, I don't see the point to have them for future games - Since Brotherhood they are not any longer a challenge for the players they are just an annoying shore for gamers and assassin goers.

idk..unity was the first time IMO where i scratched my head and went why the heck would arno do that?
And hiding spot kills are SOOO annoyingly frustrating to do in unity...

Landruner
12-13-2014, 02:33 AM
idk..unity was the first time IMO where i scratched my head and went why the heck would arno do that?
And hiding spot kills are SOOO annoyingly frustrating to do in unity...

I know a lot of people complaint about it, However and at least: it seems that this time around they did not build the mission design and script around the secondary objectives as the first inspiration like most of the AC3 and a bit of the ones of AC4 were.

SlyTrooper
12-13-2014, 03:43 AM
One thing that I think someone else brought up is that Unity does a bad job of informing you of optional objectives. There have been many times where I haven't noticed & had to restart the mission to complete it. This is so annoying because I don't like doing them as it is, so actually having to repeat them gets on my nerves. I think that, if Ubi insist on them staying, they shouldn't include them in full sync but instead perhaps make them random (based on set variables) & give additonal money or xp when completed. In my opinion, this would actually make me want to replay missions more because there are rewards each time & the objectives are always different. And don't use the argument "you have to work for 100%" because that's not a good enough reason to keep them around. "Working for 100%" in my opinion is doing all of the optional side-content because it isn't required for 100%. You don't have to make the story more of a hassle to complete to do this.

RinoTheBouncer
12-13-2014, 04:05 PM
Not entirely true. You only needed something like 50 fragments (out of 100) to unlock all the Desmond missions, which were widely regarded as some of the worst content in the game along with Den Defense. So you collected 50 fragments to unlock some missions very few people cared about (which Ubi seems to have known ahead of time, as the Desmond missions were entirely optional) and then the remaining 50 were just completely pointless. AC2 at least gave you incentive in that with 50 feathers, you got a cool new weapon, and at 100 you got your mom back.

Well at least collecting those 35/100 did unlock something. I donít see how anybody could hate Desmondís Journey or The Lost Archives. Those were like my most favorite parts of the franchise. But whether you love them or hate them, at least you did get something and not collected 200 in ACIV and didnít get anything out of them.

What would I possibly do with cool new weapons? if one manages to finish the game with the default gadgets with ease, how will getting any weapons be any special, especially if they only unlock after beating 90% of the side contents, meaning youíve already mastered every skill without those.


Totally agree. The thing is that I found going after some of those animus fragments in BF fun--those that you have to figure out how to dive into from above. I would eliminate all fragments that you just walk into, and then I would make the remaining ones mean something in the story. Getting them for its own sake gets old fast.

Yeah. Doing any side quest many times will make it get old really fast.

SixKeys
12-13-2014, 08:35 PM
Well at least collecting those 35/100 did unlock something. I donít see how anybody could hate Desmondís Journey or The Lost Archives. Those were like my most favorite parts of the franchise. But whether you love them or hate them, at least you did get something and not collected 200 in ACIV and didnít get anything out of them.

Design-wise they were gorgeous. But first-person platforming is rarely fun and the whole concept was so weird and out-of-place in AC. When people think of AC, they usually think of history, parkour, open world, action-adventure. Those parts in ACR felt like an entirely different game, like we'd suddenly stepped into Portal. Linear, hyper-modern design, limited movement, headache-inducing perspective (some people can't handle first person). If I wanted to play Portal, I'd play Portal, not Assassin's Creed. And the most disappointing part was that in the end, they felt completely pointless. We didn't find out anything about Desmond that we didn't already know and the Lucy revelation was saved for a DLC.

You can't say AC4 didn't give you anything for the fragments. You got an achievement and an Abstergo challenge. It may feel disappointing to you if you're not a completionist, but no more disappointing than Desmond's Journey was for those who hated playing them. Either way, some people are getting something they think is not worth the effort.


What would I possibly do with cool new weapons? if one manages to finish the game with the default gadgets with ease, how will getting any weapons be any special, especially if they only unlock after beating 90% of the side contents, meaning youíve already mastered every skill without those.

What would someone who hates Desmond's Journey possibly want with a new Desmond's Journey mission? It just goes to show that we all have our reasons to play these games. Some people play for the story, others play because they just like to kill people in cool ways.

Either way, the rewards for collectibles have gone downhill since AC2. In AC2, you got a weapon when you were halfway, so those who only care about gameplay were rewarded, and those who cared about story were rewarded after collecting the rest. Both sides got something.