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View Full Version : True AC Fans Best Moments and Real Issues



M8sT3r AsSASs1n
12-07-2014, 04:14 AM
All right this is addressed to all long time AC fans and Ubisoft who is still hopefully the biggest fan of all.

I believe the main issue with AC Unity is that it came out one or two years to early. While I Greatly enjoyed Arno's Story Ark, I felt absolutely no depth from the present story. All it did is remind me that I'm sitting in my living room playing a video game. What happened to the jaw dropping moments of Lucy dieing, or the depth and intrigue of learning other stories about the first civ, the depth of templars and assassins woven with history while learning something at the same time. I also was hopeful that there would have been some connection with Conner and Arno's story. I loved the connectivity between Desmond, Ezio, and Altair weather they realized it or not. I hope after Unity that assassins creed goes back to producing quality games instead of worrying about releasing every year.

The rest of this thread I leave open and hope to focus on the best ideas and reasons Assassins Creed has been a great game and what things we hope to see and what we expect quality to be like in the future (except frame rate issues I think Ubisoft knows).

Cactiii
12-07-2014, 05:09 AM
I'm going to be honest and say that I've never really been blown away by an Assassin's Creed story. Maybe somewhat at the Haytham twist in AC3 and Lucy's death, and Cristina's moments in AC:B. Apart from that, there have been cool setpieces and moments but not really a lot of story-telling that I've felt particularly interested in. Black Flag did have good characters- but that was focused on figures and characters less than the story/setting. Still, maybe it's because I was only half-heartedly paying attention to its story, but I never really felt much of anything for its characters, although the Sage was interesting (even if I still barely understand what they are).

Unity wasn't *bad* as the story is concerned, and the characters who they did focus on (Arno, Elise, Mirabeau, Germain and Bellec) were handled pretty well I'd argue. I think that the problem is that we've become too immersed in these Assassins with either no tragic flaws or flaws which they overcome- like Altair's arrogance transforming into god-like worship, Ezio's vengefulness and youthfulness giving way to wise badass, and Edward's hedonism changing into selflessness. I like how Arno never really overcame his flaw, which was his undying affection for Elise. He allows Germain to escape in order to save her. This pisses her off because her flaw is her desire for revenge- this causes her death, which I believe makes sense in the story with how she had progressed. Earlier, Mirabeau's complacency with the templars leads to his death, while Bellec's revolutionary-ism leads to his, almost acting as a symbol for the French people in the revolution.

I feel that Unity's problem is that there isn't a lot of time actually devoted to characterization, and the first half of the story is mostly focused on gameplay instead of story-telling. Arno doesn't really spend a lot of time externalizing his thoughts with others, and this doesn't lead to a lot of development. He does, however, say that he places his priority on Elise instead of on hunting down Germain. Robespierre and Napoleon feel shoe-horned in- Napoleon only really appeared in 2 missions. He should have acted like Da Vinci did, reappearing throughout the story to act as a sort of mentor and friend to Arno.

As a whole, I feel that Unity is a positive direction for the series, though- there was more symbolism and meaning than previous games and it actually lends itself to discussion. Was [redacted] justified in poisoning [redacted]? Did Arno ever actually care about redemption, or was he only using it as an opportunity to get close to Elise, who would otherwise forcibly become his mortal foe? Did Arno actually care about the creed, or was it just an opportunity to him, or even just a family obligation? How did the pocketwatch motif reflect Arno as a character? If this intelligent story-telling can be continued into the next game with more actual story and character development, then there's potential for Victory to have a great story. Unity is the first AC game to really feature symbolism, though, and I feel like that's what they were experimenting with. For gaming as a whole, I'd venture to say that it's a step in the right direction for a AAA mainstream game to experiment with that.

MakimotoJin
12-07-2014, 05:21 AM
One thing I loved are the conspiracies.When AC connects mysteries of real life history,it seems so awesome.I've always had some doubts,why did JFK die?How did Hitler convince the Germans to fight with him?Why did Tesla's plans fail?AC2's glyphs were the most amazing thing of it all.Hearing Clay's voice in the beginning of every glyph always seems awesome.Connecting the dots.That's my point.(get it?GET IT?)
AC2 spoilers ahead,but like,5 years ago type of spoilers.
I think my mind completely blew up when Ezio saw Minerva.Everything started making sense.The First Civilization,PoEs,Subject 16(Clay),the Mayan calendar,and Desmond.Holy crap.You have no idea how much I wanted Brotherhood.
But,they started fading throughout the franchise.ACIV had the Sage plot,but I have no theories in where this is going.I'm having some hopes for Juno,but some people told me....well,that it's horrible.

Assassin_M
12-07-2014, 05:25 AM
As a true AC fan I think AC II is the worst game ever and that Ezio sucks. All true, long time AC fans should think the same. If not, then you're not a true AC fan.

D.I.D.
12-07-2014, 05:25 AM
Stories have come on a long way in games since 2007. A great story is still incredibly rare, and I don't think AC's had a truly great one yet. The first few games were well ahead of most of their competition, and they deserve praise for setting a higher standard for other games, but the series did not maintain its lead or fulfil its promise.

The modern day story needed to be shelved, at least for a while. As early as Brotherhood, and certainly by the time of Revelations, people were already cracking jokes about the format. They knew before they began every game that it would end in a cliffhanger involving something to do with TWCB, and that until the series died this storyline was never really going anywhere. The ACIII ending was a means to allow the MD/TWCB story to cool off and break that pattern.

Against a godlike character such as Juno, you can't have minor skirmishes without those becoming as disappointing to TWCB fans as non-appearances would be. When you've already run an end-of-the-world story, you have nowhere else to go. Your next battle must also be world-endangeringly serious, and you can probably only get away with that once more (or very rarely) without it becoming a "boy who cried wolf" situation where Armageddon sounds like no big deal.

ACIV did some clever things to mix up the formula, giving Juno a mid-game appearance, and then finding a different TWCB story to peak towards the game's end. That was a smart move, but sometimes you've just got to let that story fade into the background altogether.

AC is so close to being an instantly accessible game that people can join at any point in the series and enjoy. The one hurdle to that is TWCB - a contentious story thread even among committed repeat customers, and a sizeable problem to newcomers because it involves a lengthy explanation now of who they are, why they made us, what happened to them, who Desmond was, what's happened since, and to a lot of people (me included) it's all very dull.


One thing I loved are the conspiracies.When AC connects mysteries of real life history,it seems so awesome.I've always had some doubts,why did JFK die?How did Hitler convince the Germans to fight with him?Why did Tesla's plans fail?AC2's glyphs were the most amazing thing of it all.Hearing Clay's voice in the beginning of every glyph always seems awesome.Connecting the dots.That's my point.(get it?GET IT?)


I agree with this so much, also the way it carried through in ACB. Unfortunately, they didn't have the will to continue risking offending people, especially the US market, so that's gone.Understandable, but I think it's a pity.

Cactiii
12-07-2014, 05:35 AM
Yeah, I think that AC4 and AC:Unity were mostly here to allow newcomers to jump in without being intimidated by the story. It's trying to avoid that feeling if you try to jump into Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid- the story is just baffling if you haven't been following it for 20 years. I feel like either they're going to start it back up in Victory or it's going to die off, because after that point people are just going to forget about it. I think that they could make a compelling story if they try and make an uneasy alliance between assassins and templars against Juno. If they can fill it with enough compelling characters, then that story might just work.

JustPlainQuirky
12-07-2014, 05:38 AM
"True AC Fans..."

Let me stop you right there.

MakimotoJin
12-07-2014, 05:39 AM
I agree with this so much, also the way it carried through in ACB. Unfortunately, they didn't have the will to continue risking offending people, especially the US market, so that's gone.Understandable, but I think it's a pity.

Me too.Do you know when Al Mualim talks about Jesus being just a guy that found a PoE and turned water into wine?I live with a very religious family,and that was pretty awesome.Ubi should keep doing what they said they do.Turning history into a playground.

Xstantin
12-07-2014, 05:40 AM
I don't know what a true fan is
I'm a filthy casual

Namikaze_17
12-07-2014, 05:44 AM
As a "true fan", one of my issues is Ubi having this constant toss-up between a Charismatic protagonist and a Serious Protagonist.

Damn it, just change it up or have a balance. -__-

MakimotoJin
12-07-2014, 05:45 AM
As a "true fan", one of my issues is Ubi having this constant toss-up between a Charismatic protagonist and a Serious Protagonist.

Damn it, just change it up or have a balance.

Shay was both.lol

Namikaze_17
12-07-2014, 05:47 AM
Shay was both.lol

When he was an Assassin. :rolleyes:

Afterwards, he was straight business.

D.I.D.
12-07-2014, 05:49 AM
As a "true fan", one of my issues is Ubi having this constant toss-up between a Charismatic protagonist and a Serious Protagonist.

Damn it, just change it up or have a balance.

I'd love to see an ultra-serious, grizzled protagonist who has a series of nail-biting brushes with death and then becomes gradually more and more funny as he'she gets a bit Zen about death and assassination and ends up seeing life as a ridiculous joke. You could have a character who flips from Clint Eastwood to Jackie Chan over the course of a game, and turn the gruff hero stereotype on its head.

MakimotoJin
12-07-2014, 05:49 AM
When he was an Assassin. :rolleyes:

Afterwards, he was straight business.

I think he's gone serious after he becomes a full Templar.

Namikaze_17
12-07-2014, 05:58 AM
I'd love to see an ultra-serious, grizzled protagonist who has a series of nail-biting brushes with death and then becomes gradually more and more funny as he'she gets a bit Zen about death and assassination and ends up seeing life as a ridiculous joke. You could have a character who flips from Clint Eastwood to Jackie Chan over the course of a game, and turn the gruff hero stereotype on its head.

Hopefully Sam is strictly business when Assassinating people ( like how an Assassin should be) with the occasional sarcasm, and he's a completely different person around his hypothetical family & friends. And have him be consistent about it.

But what you said works too... ^^


I think he's gone serious after he becomes a full Templar.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Xstantin
12-07-2014, 06:02 AM
I'd love to see an ultra-serious, grizzled protagonist who has a series of nail-biting brushes with death and then becomes gradually more and more funny as he'she gets a bit Zen about death and assassination and ends up seeing life as a ridiculous joke. You could have a character who flips from Clint Eastwood to Jackie Chan over the course of a game, and turn the gruff hero stereotype on its head.

You'll need someone older than 21 for "grizzled" so I dunno if they'll do it
I kinda wish AC had TLOU-Joel-wannabe though

D.I.D.
12-07-2014, 06:08 AM
You'll need someone older than 21 for "grizzled" so I dunno if they'll do it
I kinda wish AC had TLOU-Joel-wannabe though

That's the kind of character I'm tired of in games, tbh. AC isn't a particular offender, but I think games in general have a few too many Booker DeWitt/Talion/Joel/Bigby Wolf/Nathan Drake/Aiden Pearce-type of men.

That said, if they [THE LAST OF US SPOILERS] took the part of Joel that involved making horrible selfish decisions that affected the lives of countless other people and then lying to the one person who trusts him most about what he'd done then I could go for some of that!

Namikaze_17
12-07-2014, 06:09 AM
A protagonist like Joel would be nice... :)

VestigialLlama4
12-07-2014, 06:12 AM
As a "true fan", one of my issues is Ubi having this constant toss-up between a Charismatic protagonist and a Serious Protagonist.

Damn it, just change it up or have a balance. -__-

Edward was actually a balance, I mean he's supposed to be charismatic but in the game, he drives all his friends away, has his wife leave him and everyone sees him as this disappointment and after a while, Adewale is embarassed to be seen with him. He's actually an idiot, which is rare for gaming heroes. I always laugh when I see that big stupid grin on his face right when Black Bart smashes the skull on him, "Oh, such ambition." It's supposed to hurt but its kind of funny at the same time, like slapstick.

I don't really have issues with Modern Day, TWCB and extra features and side missions. Those concepts serve a specific function in the series as metaphors and framing device, so long as developers don't lose sight of that function (while some fans do) and keep that in the background its fine for me.

Ideally, they should find a way to resolve the Templar-Assassin conflict in the present day with the Juno issue as well but you know they should do it without falling into the AC3 trip of providing missions in the present day.


. Unity is the first AC game to really feature symbolism, though, and I feel like that's what they were experimenting with.

It tried to do that, but I don't think it worked because to use symbolism you need very good writing and UNITY did not have that. I think as a Franchise, UNITY hit a dry wall because the developers were bored of the narrative of the earlier games where the hero was tied to a given period and its historical events and they tried to create something else but in the process they failed because they still worked in the schema of the old structure. They should find more experimental ways, like say hopping across Paris in different times, or find a way to tell more personal stories in their framework.

Ultimately, as a Franchise, they should do something that they are interested in, if developers are interested in the story they are telling than it will be a good game, in the case of UNITY, none of them cared one bit about the French Revolution as is visible in the game, so the product was terrible on the whole.

Xstantin
12-07-2014, 06:16 AM
@D.I.D, that's exactly what I like about the guy :) but I always want protags to be people with questionable morals and horrible decisions

Namikaze_17
12-07-2014, 06:24 AM
Edward was actually a balance, I mean he's supposed to be charismatic but in the game, he drives all his friends away, has his wife leave him and everyone sees him as this disappointment and after a while, Adewale is embarassed to be seen with him. He's actually an idiot, which is rare for gaming heroes. I always laugh when I see that big stupid grin on his face right when Black Bart smashes the skull on him, "Oh, such ambition." It's supposed to hurt but its kind of funny at the same time, like slapstick.

Exactly! We need more protagonists like Edward in a sense, but they need to take it a step further.

But I would prefer they make an entirely different personality altogether. ^^

Altair1789
12-07-2014, 06:56 AM
I definitely agree that they should really start to make more connections, and give us a modern day so we can actually progress the main storyline. AC Unity told us next to nothing about the main storyline