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View Full Version : Rogue and Unity thoughts, questions, etc. (SPOILERS)



skiddalz
12-06-2014, 03:24 AM
I have to say I absolutely loved Shay's character and personality. For me, Rogue was by far better than Unity as far as storyline goes. So I just wanted to ask a couple of questions and talk about a few things.

Playing as a Templar made me sick to think about, but Shay's side of the story and the way he perceived everything happening made me side with him. It made me question the Brotherhood as well. Was Achilles really just ignorant to what the apple could do, or was there some hidden agenda Achilles had? I played and finished AC:3 but I'm having a hard time really remembering Achilles ending or if there were any references to his time against Shay. Anyway, Shay in the end shows mercy to Achilles and he also heard Achilles say that Shay was right about the apple. So, upon hearing Achilles say that, why did he never try to work out his differences and rejoin the Brotherhood? How have the Templars remained to keep Shay loyal when WE all know that the Templar Order is out for evil purposes and intent? The lines have blurred for me (Shout out to the GREAT writing in Rogue)

So, how come Arno does not search for Shay but instead for the Sage? Is he not interested in finding his father's murderer? I played Unity first, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard no mention of Shay the entire game.

Do we know how Charles Dorian came to be the person with the precursor box? I would love to know more of his backstory and place within the Brotherhood. It had to have been very important for him to be in possession of it.

Do you think there will be another game based on Shay? He was not in AC:3 so where the hell did he end up going or what is he doing?

Also, in my opinion, playing Unity and then Rogue made the tie-in so much cooler! At the last mission in Rogue walking up to a young Arno and Elise blew my mind! It wouldn't have had the same effect had I played Rogue first.

Also, the Modern Story feels really interesting and like it's starting to pick up. What are your thoughts on where things are headed with Abstergo Entertainment and why is Shay and Arno so important to them?

Feel free to comment or answer on whatever.

Hans684
12-06-2014, 11:23 AM
Playing as a Templar made me sick to think about, but Shay's side of the story and the way he perceived everything happening made me side with him. It made me question the Brotherhood as well. Was Achilles really just ignorant to what the apple could do, or was there some hidden agenda Achilles had?

No he belived Shay did something wrong at the First Civ. temple. So he ignores what Shay says about how dangerous they are and wants to look for more. It's usual Assassin mentality, "find whatever artifacts we can before the Templars, we are the only ones who know how to deal with it".


I played and finished AC:3 but I'm having a hard time really remembering Achilles ending or if there were any references to his time against Shay.

He dies in his chair at the homestead, and he does talk about the past but not deep.


Anyway, Shay in the end shows mercy to Achilles and he also heard Achilles say that Shay was right about the apple.

It's not an Apple of Eden, they are "trees", they are connected to earth in a way.


So, upon hearing Achilles say that, why did he never try to work out his differences and rejoin the Brotherhood?

The Templar couse and ideology is something Shay agree with. Let's not forget that they tried to kill him.


How have the Templars remained to keep Shay loyal when WE all know that the Templar Order is out for evil purposes and intent?

Incorrect


The lines have blurred for me (Shout out to the GREAT writing in Rogue)

Because that's how the war is, it's blurred. It's a never ending fight between two extremist orders.


So, how come Arno does not search for Shay but instead for the Sage? Is he not interested in finding his father's murderer? I played Unity first, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard no mention of Shay the entire game.

Redemption.


Do we know how Charles Dorian came to be the person with the precursor box? I would love to know more of his backstory and place within the Brotherhood. It had to have been very important for him to be in possession of it.

Chevalier, the French Assassin end explorer. Liam said he dealt with the box and that Shay would never find it.


Do you think there will be another game based on Shay? He was not in AC:3 so where the hell did he end up going or what is he doing?

I'd love another game. He was not in AC3 because he is hunting for the box, that's the mission Haytham gave him. That lead him to Charles Dorian.


Also, the Modern Story feels really interesting and like it's starting to pick up. What are your thoughts on where things are headed with Abstergo Entertainment and why is Shay and Arno so important to them?

Arno is important because of the Sage but the Sage was taken care so it's was a waste to relive his life.

As for Shay, Otso Berg wanted to show how weak they are and that at situations like Shay they want order. It's not about Shay, it's about sending a message.

king-hailz
12-06-2014, 11:40 AM
Tbh I don't really think shays reason for leaving the assassins was sound... He must have known the tenants of the creed and should have said to achilles that killing civilians is wrong.... He was sad about killing civilians and goes to the templars who have killed way more civillains than the assassins! It makes no sense... but I do like his personality... He was a good character although a little stupid....
I'd definitely rather have a game as shay again then arno. Arnos story was pointless... The whole story was irrelevant! At the end of rogue I kinda felt like I hated otso for sending shays story... but then again I think the assassins should send them connors memories. I thought it was good...

Anyway I don't think the modern day is coming back... It is the lowest it's ever been... rogues was ok because it had some good characters... but tbh nothing is happening... juno is gone I think... I don't know it's just so stupid!

Namikaze_17
12-06-2014, 12:11 PM
Tbh I don't really think shays reason for leaving the assassins was sound... He must have known the tenants of the creed and should have said to achilles that killing civilians is wrong....


It wasn't just that.

Shay saw firsthand how dangerous the precursor sites were, so Achilles as mentor should've at least listened to what he had to say.

But instead of Achilles considering/heeding Shay's warnings he instead says: "Well maybe you" as if it was Shay's fault.

Not to mention after the heated moment, Shay decides that throwing away the manuscript will make sure neither Assassins or Templars interfere with that power again and harm innocents like in Lisbon. (directly or indirectly)
( Which should be considered noble, right?)

Then we have Achilles who automatically walks in assuming Shay is betraying them/him when all Shay was trying to do in the first place was get rid of the manuscript.

And you'd figure since they're alone this time, they'll talk it out right? No.

Instead of grabbing a chair and talking things out with Shay in a peaceful manner, Achilles just blatantly accuses Shay of betrayal.

"What is it that you think you are doing? Betraying your brothers? Betraying me?"

Shay says something back, then Achilles irrationally throws him into a window and orders the Assassins to kill him as they try to do it with NO hesitation.

"I won't let you destroy everything we have build!"
"Assassins! Stop him! Stop Shay!"

What sense does that make???

So yeah there's that fiasco, plus everyone tried to have him killed afterwards. :rolleyes:

Overall, Shay was really against their hypocrisy and insane ambitions than them.

skiddalz
12-07-2014, 06:48 PM
"The Templar couse and ideology is something Shay agree with. Let's not forget that they tried to kill him."

He came to agree with the Templars ideology after he left the Brotherhood, but he agreed with the Brotherhood ideology all up until the misunderstanding between him and Achilles. But upon hearing Achilles say that "Shay was right" I am just wondering why he would not have a change of heart or talk to him. They both spared each others life in the end. Achilles stopped Liam from killing Shay and Shay stopped Haytham from killing Achilles.

"Incorrect"

Incorrect as in what? Up until this point, Ubisoft and AC has taught us that the Templars are the bad guys. The Brotherhood is what every player playing is meant to follow as being the good guys. So, seeing as Shay really does have good intentions and ideas and doesn't want to harm the innocent, then why is he still blinded by the Templar Order? Does this game mean there will be a change in direction as far as who the "good guys" will be from now on? Or will Shay be casted off to be a "bad guy"?



"Redemption."

I get that he wants redemption, but wouldn't he want redemption because of his father as well and finding his killer would be just that.


"I'd love another game. He was not in AC3 because he is hunting for the box, that's the mission Haytham gave him. That lead him to Charles Dorian. "

He killed Charles Dorian in 1776. The American Revolution was still happening and Connor didn't leave until years after, and he ended up going to New York after that too. So that would have given Shay plenty of time to get to Connor and be a part of AC:3 if the writers wanted to write him in there. I'm wondering why they didn't. He must have not really cared much to seek out Connor even though at the end Shay said he was the Templar of the American Rite. Maybe there will be a follow up game where Shay does face off with Connor???


"Arno is important because of the Sage but the Sage was taken care so it's was a waste to relive his life.

As for Shay, Otso Berg wanted to show how weak they are and that at situations like Shay they want order. It's not about Shay, it's about sending a message."[/QUOTE]

I'm wondering if Shay could be the Sage?

Hans684
12-07-2014, 07:27 PM
"The Templar couse and ideology is something Shay agree with. Let's not forget that they tried to kill him."
He came to agree with the Templars ideology after he left the Brotherhood, but he agreed with the Brotherhood ideology all up until the misunderstanding between him and Achilles. But upon hearing Achilles say that "Shay was right" I am just wondering why he would not have a change of heart or talk to him. They both spared each others life in the end. Achilles stopped Liam from killing Shay and Shay stopped Haytham from killing Achilles.

He questioned the creed and pointed out it's hypocrisy before that. Even going as far as saying he didn't feel free. Why they would is properly because both betrayed each other at some point, how can they trust each other after that? Achilles would properly killed Shay at the homestead if gotten the chance but Shay escaped("I won't let you destroy everything we've build"), once outside Achilles gave the Assassins orders to kill him. None hesitated, blind followers.


"Incorrect"
Incorrect as in what? Up until this point, Ubisoft and AC has taught us that the Templars are the bad guys. The Brotherhood is what every player playing is meant to follow as being the good guys. So, seeing as Shay really does have good intentions and ideas and doesn't want to harm the innocent, then why is he still blinded by the Templar Order? Does this game mean there will be a change in direction as far as who the "good guys" will be from now on? Or will Shay be casted off to be a "bad guy"?

I just said incorrect because it's not even worth discussing, many Assassin supporters is like Achilles blind followers. "Right or wrong, you betrayed the brotherhood" - Liam, his problem is the right of wrong part he ignores. Blindly following the Assassins. Then there is the screaming French Assassin and explorer that see all Templars like Borgia's. As said, not worth discussing.


"Redemption."
I get that he wants redemption, but wouldn't he want redemption because of his father as well and finding his killer would be just that.

That would fit more with the word revenge.


"I'd love another game. He was not in AC3 because he is hunting for the box, that's the mission Haytham gave him. That lead him to Charles Dorian. "
He killed Charles Dorian in 1776. The American Revolution was still happening and Connor didn't leave until years after, and he ended up going to New York after that too. So that would have given Shay plenty of time to get to Connor and be a part of AC:3 if the writers wanted to write him in there. I'm wondering why they didn't. He must have not really cared much to seek out Connor even though at the end Shay said he was the Templar of the American Rite. Maybe there will be a follow up game where Shay does face off with Connor???

Properly other matters to attend.


"Arno is important because of the Sage but the Sage was taken care so it's was a waste to relive his life.

As for Shay, Otso Berg wanted to show how weak they are and that at situations like Shay they want order. It's not about Shay, it's about sending a message."

I'm wondering if Shay could be the Sage?

No Shay is not a Sage, the Sage from Unity is the corrupt Templar(note: not a true Templar) Grand Master Germain.

skiddalz
12-08-2014, 01:52 AM
Thanks for the input! Upping this for more feedback

DanPenfold
12-08-2014, 02:07 AM
No Shay is not a Sage, the Sage from Unity is the corrupt Templar(note: not a true Templar) Grand Master Germain.

I didn't get that part of the story really.

skiddalz
12-08-2014, 05:31 PM
No Shay is not a Sage, the Sage from Unity is the corrupt Templar(note: not a true Templar) Grand Master Germain.

I didn't get that part of the story really.

Yeah, same here. And I was thinking, even if Shay is not the sage from Unity, could he still be a Sage?

MakimotoJin
12-08-2014, 06:54 PM
Rogue have me the same feels the Last of Us did.That's saying something.
Anyway,I honestly think Rogue's modern day is leading nowhere.It was pretty cool,with amazing characters,but then what?Unity has this horrible "MD",so it's not going to show up again.All I think is that it was supposed to show what the Templars think and why they think about the Assassins,which I agree and support,but that's it.

It wasn't just that.

Shay saw firsthand how dangerous the precursor sites were, so Achilles as mentor should've at least listened to what he had to say.

But instead of Achilles considering/heeding Shay's warnings he instead says: "Well maybe you" as if it was Shay's fault.

Not to mention after the heated moment, Shay decides that throwing away the manuscript will make sure neither Assassins or Templars interfere with that power again and harm innocents like in Lisbon. (directly or indirectly)
( Which should be considered noble, right?)

Then we have Achilles who automatically walks in assuming Shay is betraying them/him when all Shay was trying to do in the first place was get rid of the manuscript.

And you'd figure since they're alone this time, they'll talk it out right? No.

Instead of grabbing a chair and talking things out with Shay in a peaceful manner, Achilles just blatantly accuses Shay of betrayal.

"What is it that you think you are doing? Betraying your brothers? Betraying me?"

Shay says something back, then Achilles irrationally throws him into a window and orders the Assassins to kill him as they try to do it with NO hesitation.

"I won't let you destroy everything we have build!"
"Assassins! Stop him! Stop Shay!"

What sense does that make???

So yeah there's that fiasco, plus everyone tried to have him killed afterwards. :rolleyes:

Overall, Shay was really against their hypocrisy and insane ambitions than them.

Wanna know a funny thing?
When Shay goes to Achilles' house,the light of his room is lit,and you can see Achilles' shadow,watching Shay.After a while,he leaves,and the room goes dark.