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View Full Version : Joystick with ForceFeedback, it is worth something ?



Stary_Wuj
08-10-2004, 07:00 AM
OK, Hi everybody :-)

I want to buy joystick with ForceFeedback option. First time :-)(I'am 34 years old :-) and need help. I have 2 companies to choice - Logitech and Saitek.
Which is better, which model ? I have no money for HOTAS :-( and I saw only few models on the market with FF.
Mayby FORCE FEEDBACK effects are not much exciting in IL2 FB ???
Any advice ?
BTW - as standard joysticks (without FF) I prefer Logitech, because are not so smooth, and more heavy duty for me :-), but not too much buttons :-(

Best Regards from Poland
and sorry about my english :-)

Stary Wuj

Stary_Wuj
08-10-2004, 07:00 AM
OK, Hi everybody :-)

I want to buy joystick with ForceFeedback option. First time :-)(I'am 34 years old :-) and need help. I have 2 companies to choice - Logitech and Saitek.
Which is better, which model ? I have no money for HOTAS :-( and I saw only few models on the market with FF.
Mayby FORCE FEEDBACK effects are not much exciting in IL2 FB ???
Any advice ?
BTW - as standard joysticks (without FF) I prefer Logitech, because are not so smooth, and more heavy duty for me :-), but not too much buttons :-(

Best Regards from Poland
and sorry about my english :-)

Stary Wuj

carguy_
08-10-2004, 07:06 AM
Gosciu jedz do Krakowa i zalatw sobie Thrustmaster Fox2Pro FFB albo po prostu Saitek Rumble Force.Logitech nie ma centeringu,i w ogole baaardzo zle recenzje zbiera.Logitech omijac szerokim lukiem.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Na pewno warto miec FFB.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Cippacometa
08-10-2004, 07:10 AM
First of all, be aware that you cannot seriously play FB without force feedback: it is not just "for fun", since it transmits you all aircraft reactions, such as when it's stalling, or when you touchdown, etc.

I'll suggest a Saitek product rather than a Logitech.
I had a very very bad experience with Logitech Force 3D. Bad bad control and "spiky" movements.

In any case, get a product with infrared (optic) sensors like the Saitek Cyborg 3D.

S 8
08-10-2004, 07:25 AM
"Serious" or not,I found only FF so make things harder,although I had that Logitech thingy.Don´t know if that one is less good than others to simulate FF,but anyway,some swear about how realistic everything becomes like feeling a fortcoming stall and such things.I don´t feel them,I hear and see them so no big loss for me,actually I stall less than with FF.But hey!,that´s me.Maybe if I tried out another FF stick I would perhaps change my mind.

Extreme_One
08-10-2004, 07:30 AM
I use the Saitek Cyborg 3D Rumble and I http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif it!

I honestly couldn't imagine flying without force feedback.

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-Ex_1_sig.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-10-2004, 07:30 AM
I have a Microsoft forcefeedback2 pro stick bagged and sitting on the shelf in my closet. I've thought about sending it to someone who I thought could really use it, but they're almost impossible to find anymore.

Hopefully, CH will make another one in a year or so. Here is a link to a poll taken over at CH-Hangar http://ch-hangar.com/oldpolls.php

TB



Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

lindyman
08-10-2004, 07:30 AM
FF good, logitech FF bad.

It does help tremendously in squeezing the last bit of performance out of the wings. Unfortunately, the rather violent shaking of the stick from the gun recoil takes away a lot, since your plane will rattle much more with FF than without FF.

If you buy one of the two, get the Saitek. It's a good stick. I have one. It's not perfect, but it's far better than the Logitech (I replaced the logitech with the saitek.)
_
/Bjorn.

Extreme_One
08-10-2004, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
I have a Microsoft forcefeedback2 pro stick bagged and sitting on the shelf in my closet. I've thought about sending it to someone who I thought could really use it, but they're almost impossible to find anymore.

Hopefully, CH will make another one in a year or so. Here is a link to a poll taken over at CH-Hangar http://ch-hangar.com/oldpolls.php

TB



_Our FB server info:_ http://www.greatergreen.com/il2
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Name your price - seriously! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-Ex_1_sig.jpg

Freefalldart
08-10-2004, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
Gosciu jedz do Krakowa i zalatw sobie Thrustmaster Fox2Pro FFB albo po prostu Saitek Rumble Force.Logitech nie ma centeringu,i w ogole baaardzo zle recenzje zbiera.Logitech omijac szerokim lukiem.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Na pewno warto miec FFB.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

¿¿?? Any problem with your keyboard? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've played FB with both FF and non-FF joysticks and I can say that my Ms ForceFeedback2 has really helped me to improve my flying skills. Now I crash with a far better style http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Seriously, FF really helps "feeling the aircraft" and knowing its limits. Yes, as someone said above you can hear and see when you are going to stall, but there are some other effects that you cannot see or hear so easily, and it is then when FF really helps...

"Cuando un loco parece totalmente sensato es hora de ponerle la camisa de fuerza"
Edgar Allan Poe (1809-1849)

Stary_Wuj
08-10-2004, 07:46 AM
THANK YOU !!!! for everyone :-)

For me, IMHO Saitek josticks looks very ugly
:-), something like for kids, but I will try one, mayby it is good idea.

BTW - whats problems with something called "center" are with Logitech ? I use Logitech Wingman Extreme 3D and never had problems this kind (mayby, but I dont know :-)

THANKS again very much !

Stary Wuj

julien673
08-10-2004, 09:45 AM
ForceFeedback 2 from Micosoft.... but good luck to find on http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Saitek is the best one i think

Xnomad
08-10-2004, 02:54 PM
Yep MS FFB 2 what a stick!

The only gripe I've had with this stick is that I don't like the recoil from the guns. But that was no problem I just deleted the recoil files in FB and replaced them with empty files and voil , cleaner shooting.


As mentioned above, good luck finding one. I hope that another company is going to fill the gap that MS has left in the FFB market, as I don't know what to do if my stick should die a horrible irreparable death.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

WTE_Galway
08-10-2004, 07:14 PM
agreed

my FFB2 is probably teh only Microsoft product i would ever consider recommending

its brilliant and makes flying on the edge of stall far far easier

609IAP_Recon
08-10-2004, 10:10 PM
MSFFB2 is a great stick IMO.

I will bid on it too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

However, I don't use FF in the game mostly because when I toggle out, etc.. I lose FFB - not sure if that is MS or 1C issue.

S!
609IAP_Recon
http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg


Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2004, 12:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
I have a Microsoft forcefeedback2 pro stick bagged and sitting on the shelf in my closet. I've thought about sending it to someone who I thought could really use it, but they're almost impossible to find anymore.

Hopefully, CH will make another one in a year or so. Here is a link to a poll taken over at CH-Hangar http://ch-hangar.com/oldpolls.php

TB



_Our FB server info:_ http://www.greatergreen.com/il2
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Name your price - seriously! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

_S! Simon_
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html.

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html. _*NEW*_

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-Ex_1_sig.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Oh, Oh bidding war coming on.
Those that are still available in OZ have doubled in price. A$400 was one I saw advertised -new.


Me, me , me

ps Just in case...any thoughts as to The Topgun Afterburner Force feedback ?

Also the way turbulance is done, it really knocks the wedge shape gear attached to the gimbal about. Loosens it on the mount

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-11-2004, 05:55 AM
If you are seriously interested in it. PM me and we'll talk. I've got a squaddy that will get first dibs, but he may not want it. It's in great shape.

TB



Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

Heavy_Weather
08-11-2004, 07:03 AM
i've used a FF stick online before and i didnt really enjoy it. if you play in a server that has wind and turbulence turned on, you'll find yourself jinking all over the place down low when trying to make a kill, it makes for wasted ammo and poorly placed shots. most FF sticks have the option to turn the FF sensitivity up or down. you might like it though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"To fly a combat mission is not a trip under the moon. Every attack, every bombing is a dance with death."
- Serafima Amsova-Taranenko: Noggle, Ann (1994): A Dance with Death.

Freefalldart
08-11-2004, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heavy_Weather:
i've used a FF stick online before and i didnt really enjoy it. if you play in a server that has wind and turbulence turned on, you'll find yourself jinking all over the place down low when trying to make a kill, it makes for wasted ammo and poorly placed shots.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, come on guys!
There's a lot of whinning about realism in FB and now you're saying that FF is bad because of turbulences, wind, etc. It's more approximate to the real thing that not having it!
I'm a very bad shooter http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif, but it's really exciting pursuing an enemy fighter low on the deck while your plane is "jumping" and vibrating because of turbulence.
Trust me, it's a very funny way of wasting ammunition http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"Cuando un loco parece totalmente sensato es hora de ponerle la camisa de fuerza"
Edgar Allan Poe (1809-1849)

CraytonRoberts
08-11-2004, 10:03 AM
I've had a MSFF2 fpr a long time. The problem is that there simply isn't ENOUGH force in the feedback. For example, in pulling out of a steep dive, there's no extra effort required than in a shallow dive. It should be an effort. I have no idea how to jigger it so it has more Uumph, but moving the regular seetings does very little. Am I doing something wrong? Also, I, like another postee, don't "feel" the impending stall, but hear it. What do do?

LuckyBoy1
08-11-2004, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cippacometa:
First of all, be aware that you cannot seriously play FB without force feedback: it is not just "for fun", since it transmits you all aircraft reactions, such as when it's stalling, or when you touchdown, etc.

I'll suggest a Saitek product rather than a Logitech.
I had a very very bad experience with Logitech Force 3D. Bad bad control and "spiky" movements.

In any case, get a product with infrared (optic) sensors like the Saitek Cyborg 3D.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What have you been smoking? How many stick controlled WWII era planes have you flown? how do you know this Farce Feedback adds anything "real" to this game?

I have experience in that era stick controlled planes and can tell you that farce feedback does not feel natural. As a result, it detracts from my game rather than adding to it. Still, I think the choice of going with force feedback or not going with it is purely a matter of personal taste and throwing bombs like "you cannot seriously play FB" with or without force feedback is simply rubbish!

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

Heavy_Weather
08-11-2004, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heavy_Weather:
i've used a FF stick online before and i didnt really enjoy it. if you play in a server that has wind and turbulence turned on, you'll find yourself jinking all over the place down low when trying to make a kill, it makes for wasted ammo and poorly placed shots. most FF sticks have the option to turn the FF sensitivity up or down. you might like it though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

yeah i know this but remember, the guy you're chasing, his stick more than likely isnt doing that. its just not an option for me, im not speaking for the world, merely a suggestion


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"To fly a combat mission is not a trip under the moon. Every attack, every bombing is a dance with death."
- Serafima Amsova-Taranenko: Noggle, Ann (1994): A Dance with Death.

Lucius_Esox
08-11-2004, 04:20 PM
Hi all,
Don't really understand this argument. Have used both types (nonff and ff) and also MSFF1 as well as MSFF2, no comparison. God knows what feels right in comparison to real WW2 fighter planes but i am sure of one thing without fbw (fly by wire) they must have been tough sons of b****** to control. It just adds more, but it's harder. Havent seen anyone mention how you can FEEL the trim of your aircraft change at different speeds and aoa. Quite honestly for me playing IL2 without FF turns it into an arcade/consol type game.

VF-19
08-11-2004, 04:47 PM
I used to use a Wingman Strike Force 3D, but it's been going down the crapper lately. I resumed using my Sidewinder 3D pro (It didn't used to work with my old computer... Long story), and flying has never been better. That is until I get my hands on a nice Saitek...

When I was using the force feedback on the Logitech, I turned the force feedback all the way down to 44%. Just enough to feel it, but not enough to interfere with shooting.