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View Full Version : Modeling humans ,that will operate the AAA guns.



XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 01:58 PM
It looks a bit silly when the AAAs shoot without
any human operating it,
there should really be one at each gun.
Would it be a big thing to model and implement them in the game?

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 01:58 PM
It looks a bit silly when the AAAs shoot without
any human operating it,
there should really be one at each gun.
Would it be a big thing to model and implement them in the game?

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BECOME A KING WHINER

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 02:18 PM
LOL, I've wondered the same thing. And the same goes for a truck going down the road in the game.

One thing I have noticed, that is really fun to watch, is the pilots in the open cockpit Russian fighters actually turn thier heads to track the opposition. Now that's something you don't see in any other flight sim. At least not the ones I have. Hat's off to the guys who made that possible. S!

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 02:45 PM
Pilots in ALL the a/c turn their heads!

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 03:01 PM
And it would be cool if guns can be disabled by killing the operator.

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The valiant never taste of death but once."

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 03:22 PM
Yeah, this really should be implemented. They have the little low-quality looking guy that drives the jeep so I don't see why they couldn't just throw one of those on the guns.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 03:56 PM
i have noticed this as well, and would no doubt heighten FB just with this little factor /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Model the correct number of men per gun, give them a hit box or what ever each. So if you strafe the gun and it dont go bang, you can at least get the crew /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


all in favour raise your hands
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 06:14 PM
Hey guys, Just stopping in to say hi, BTW, I raised this question around a month ago, and still feel the same way. Although, the gun should only stop firing for around five minutes, if it can be implemented, as a new crew would join the gun after a while. Still, the game is good as it is. I think this should not be implemented until much, much later. It's not that big on priority and frankly, AAA is easy enough to destroy if you do it properly, (Without the accuracy bug)


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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:48 PM
I really don't think this would add anything to the game...

...with the exception of additional processing to choke lower-end processors and video cards.

Having human infantry modelled as a target/AA fire generator would be more important as they do not exist at all. At least the AA guns can fire at targets and be destroyed. Having little guys standing around would add that much in terms of enjoyment.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 07:52 PM
Two reasons.

1. Unneccessary polygon increase
2. Rating of game would change (violence)*

* Same reason you won't see horses ala WW2 Fighters.


The one feature that can't be shipped with any game is your imagination that should be used to fill in the perceived voids.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 09:11 PM
Due to the prevalence of horse-drawn transport in WW2, I think they should model them...

...just make the horses indestructible as they flee the destroyed wagons. That should avoid the violence rating problem.

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XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:37 PM
2 Bumps!

1: It will look much better then those 'ghost' operated AA!

2: It will give the ground-attack a extra dimension in realism; player can neutralize gun by killing its crew or blowing up the guns ammo crates!

Would be great to have a new vieuw point for the trackfiles if you can vieuw from aa guns; AA gun shooting at your aircraft or watch your aircraft comming in for a strafing pass!

Ground troops on moving trucks are already running away when shot at since Il2's first sim!
Why shouldn't these do the same or just simply die and stop shooting when hit!

I have heard over and over complaints from some people beeing afraid of FPS drop, they said the same over me sugesting telephone poles (Oxigen mask at altitude, more complex engine control)geuss what wheater you like it or not the telephone poles are underway! and the mask and complex engine controll are here to stay!

So keep asking for new stuff that will keep this sim the best there is!

Regards,
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
08-05-2003, 11:53 PM
Flydutch wrote:
- 1: It will look much better then those 'ghost'
- operated AA!

Hah, by the time you get close enough to see the troops, you're probably going to hit the derned thing.

- 2: It will give the ground-attack a extra dimension
- in realism; player can neutralize gun by killing its
- crew or blowing up the guns ammo crates!

I think the gun would be destroyed by any fire capable of doing that in the scale of this game.

As was said before, this wouldn't add anything to the game except a bigger processor hit.


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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 12:00 AM
They did move there heads in JANES WW2 fighter..

Chin up ..HUTCH

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 12:32 AM
why is it not 'violence' to shoot people in parachutes but it is to shoot people on ground? i'm being serious, i'm not being rhetorical or anything.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 01:24 AM
I'm not sure about what a couple of people are talking about here.

1. There is already a guy driving the jeep in game which I bomb/rocket/strafe, and there are pilots whom we shoot also so the violence rating wouldn't change.

2, There would be no huge poly increase, the guy in the jeep could be used and he is very low poly. Check it out.


No more ghost guns!


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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 01:27 AM
it would be pretty cool if when you shot up the gun operator if there was gore!

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:11 AM
Sorry guys.

You have to learn to pick and choose your "battles," and you simply aren't going to win this one.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:16 AM
tolwyn.com wrote:
- Sorry guys.
-
- You have to learn to pick and choose your "battles,"
- and you simply aren't going to win this one.


You are probably right tolwyn, but there is no harm in suggesting it. Nobody here is trying to "battle" anyone or anything.

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:43 AM
tolwyn.com wrote:
- Two reasons.
-
- 1. Unneccessary polygon increase

Agreed 100%

- 2. Rating of game would change (violence)*
-
- * Same reason you won't see horses ala WW2 Fighters.

Huh? No kidding? well just another good reason! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- The one feature that can't be shipped with any game
- is your imagination that should be used to
- fill in the perceived voids.

AMEN!!!



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:54 AM
i really don't get why people have to run their suggestions through the self appointed board of forum critics before they can ask for a new feature to be implemented. if you object to an addition for gameplay reasons (i.e. something that would make il2 extremely unrealistic) then that's fine, but take a chill pill about other stuff. i think the developers will know to take out some stuff like AAA gunners if they're getting s@$# fps. seems like they've gotten their priorities straight up until now.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:55 AM
Again:

I'm not sure about what a couple of people are talking about here.

1. There is already a guy driving the jeep in game which I bomb/rocket/strafe, and there are pilots whom we shoot also so the violence rating wouldn't change. There is also a gore option although it is limited to certain planes.

2, There would be no huge poly increase, the guy in the jeep could be used and he is very low poly. Check it out.

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 07:20 AM
This place is for making bug reports or suggesting things, its up to Oleg and the other Ubi team to decide if its a good idea, I think it would be great, it gives a little bit more relism to the game, I dont like seeing the famous Flak 88 manned by nothing, I dont think little kids play this game ether so who cares about the violence rating, isnt it violent enought to shoot at defenceless people in parachutes, or shoot at people running away from trucks and Jeeps. Were all adults here, and I think I can handle shooting at a little guy who is not real, and seeing him dead or not. Its not like im going to get in a real 109 and look for the nearest AA gun emplacement and shoot the people manning it. And your telling me some people who have this game are running peices of crap, and that they can handle a couple more polygons to the game, heres a suggestion... GET A BETTER COMPUTER!!. AND Grow up!

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Message Edited on 08/05/0311:22PM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 07:26 AM
Timmothias wrote:
- i really don't get why people have to run their
- suggestions through the self appointed board of
- forum critics before they can ask for a new feature
- to be implemented.

What is to understand?

- if you object to an addition for gameplay reasons
- (i.e. something that would make il2 extremely
- unrealistic) then that's fine,

Ah, good, I glad you agree... but there are more reason to disagree on than unrealistic.. performance is a good one, one that usally takes a hit with a buch of extras. That and fixing bugs... important bugs before *adding* new features is also very important to some.

- but take a chill pill about other stuff.

Cant... Just too important to me to make sure that they know that some of us dont need more... be nice, but would rather see them fix what we have before more is added. Not to mention most rigs couldnt hadle more anyways.

- i think the developers will know to take out some
- stuff like AAA gunners if they're getting s@$# fps.

Exactally... which is probally the MAIN reason we DONT SEE them now! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- seems like they've gotten their priorities straight
- up until now.

Agreed 100%



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 07:42 AM
Wetwilly87 wrote:
- This place is for making bug reports or suggesting
- things,

Agreed!

- its up to Oleg and the other Ubi team to
- decide if its a good idea,

Agreed, and is why I make sure I get my opinion out there too. In that I want to make sure Oleg and the other Ubi team knows that some of us dont need more! And that what is important to us is they fix what we have!

- I think it would be great, it gives a little bit
- more relism to the game,

Only a real dim bulb would think it wouldnt be great... It's just that some of us would rather see what we have that is broke fixed before we add more.

- I dont like seeing the famous Flak 88 manned
- by nothing,

Who does? Just that some have different prioritys, and thus we want to see the limited time and money used and spent on fixing what we have.

- I dont think little kids play this game
- ether so who cares about the violence rating, isnt
- it violent enought to shoot at defenceless people in
- parachutes, or shoot at people running away from
- trucks and Jeeps. Were all adults here, and I think
- I can handle shooting at a little guy who is not
- real, and seeing him dead or not. Its not like im
- going to get in a real 109 and look for the nearest
- AA gun emplacement and shoot the people manning it.

Well than you go make a sim and put things in it that LIMIT it's sales... If taking out BAMBI (like in WWII Fighters) and or a TROOP here and there gets IL2 a TEEN rating and thus increasing the chance of making a profit, and thus increasing the chance of making a sim in the future... THEN LEAVE BAMBI and or a TROOP here and there OUT!!! I wont miss some deer prancing across the forzen tundra! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- And your telling me some people who have this game
- are running peices of crap, and that they can handle
- a couple more polygons to the game,

For some, yes that is the case. As time goes by, we get better systems.. by we I mean the bulk of the people they sell sims to.. Sure there is a guy out there with a $5000.00 system that can handle IL2 and 3 other games running in the back ground... But once again, Oleg and the team realised that if they want to make a profit, make a product that will work well for the masses. Pretty simple Capatilism! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- heres a suggestion... GET A BETTER COMPUTER!!.

Easy said, Not as easy to do.... for the masses that is.. You know.. the people they are targeting thier product for!

- AND Grow up!

AMEN!!! And if the shoe fits... RUN WITH IT!



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 09:23 AM
Tagert, I would understand your concern if there wasn't a patch already on the way, but there is. Taking that into account and my other points your concerns are not really valid. We already pump pilots and guys in jeeps full of lead, so what the hell is the difference if they are manning a gun? And the performance hit would be very minor. Maybe they could put it under the perfect setting or make it an option. It was just a suggestion and everybody has a right to their opinion, including you. You've made your point, but most of us here disagree.

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"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 12:29 PM
We do get telophone poles, we do get gun emplacements and bunkers...

I can asure you: it might take some more time but we will get AA crew and ammo crates, and hopefuly ground or air controllers and grid maps like it was already featured in the classic "Janes WWII fighters", (the big insperation for Oleg and team)


Don't forget this sim startded out as a GROUND-ATTACK sim!

regards,
Kees.

The people pre-ocupied with FPS are a very loud but very small group of Online fanatics.
Wanting to go back to the old times when FPS was still good, are you willing to give up your D-9, K-4 or will you ask to remove future relaeses like P-51 and Ta 152-H?

I wish FB came in 2 versions 1 to keep the people above happy and stop their critisim, and the one were Oleg and team keep on developing this game with the help of enthuasast and happy simmers!

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 04:27 PM
Guys I'm not saying it's a BAD idea, or that the idea SUCKS... I'm saying that it's not likely to happen.

But, courtesy bump...


On an aside... I would LOVE to have more camera objects in the game... meaning that you can track or "chase" ground targets (camera focus).

Would make good cinematic tracks.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 04:54 PM
*sigh*

performance hit is such an invalid point. you know what i see when i shoot down a paratrooper plane? i see 12 "dots" which i know are paratroopers and pilots. you see, il2 scales down the graphical quality of objects at longer distances, especially lower end computers (like mine.) if you are concerned about performance you can easily scale down the graphics.

in the next patch we will get dust flying from the wheels of our aircraft when landing and taking off. now in your honest opinion, is this a necessary addition to il2? i would say no, but i'm not gonna complain about it because i can probably adjust some settings and turn it off or gain performance otherwise. it is not a big deal.

on another note, the system requirements changed from il2 to fb, so its likely they will change again, requiring a faster computer, and probably adding more stuff. aaa gunners are a subtle detail. kinda like the rolling pencil on the tb-3. sure it's not absolutely necessary to have those small details, but it's that kind of detail that makes il-2 so damned good. if people didn't want more than what will just get it done, ferraris wouldnt exist.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:16 PM
tolwyn.com wrote:
- Two reasons.
-
- 1. Unneccessary polygon increase
- 2. Rating of game would change (violence)*
-
- * Same reason you won't see horses ala WW2 Fighters.
-
-
- The one feature that can't be shipped with any game
- is your imagination that should be used to
- fill in the perceived voids.
-
-

AD2.: But you can actually kill crewman of trucks when running away from theyr vehicles.while under attack.

I think people operating AAA would give some extra realism . For low end computers maybe there could be a funktion to disable them (Objects detail?)


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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:46 PM
On the one hand its kind of annoying to see someone like tagert turn a suggestion thread into a debate on why FB should only exist in the way tagert wants it to exist, and on the other hand this thread keeps getting pushed to the top of the list, so the net effect is: thanks for helping to promote this great suggestion all who posted here!! Unmanned robotic Flak has to be the lamest "feature" of IL2:FB. Even stationary "scarecrow" figures just standing there that did nothing but die when shot would be better than nothing, and there would be no more framerate hit than the telephone poles we're gettin will cause.



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54LUT3!

"Fighter Aces don't win wars" -- el Zed

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:51 PM
Flydutch wrote:
- The people pre-ocupied with FPS are a very loud but
- very small group of Online fanatics.

It's not FPS but processor load. The higher the load, the more likely you are to have lag, warp, and stutter (the last offline as well).

- Wanting to go back to the old times when FPS was
- still good, are you willing to give up your D-9, K-4
- or will you ask to remove future relaeses like P-51
- and Ta 152-H?

There is nothing unique about those models that would cause additional processor load.

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 05:52 PM
We want this game to look realistic don´t we?

Close to every start position on all runways there is flak.
While you are waiting for your time to start you will look around and see these unmanned flak´s close up. If there is an enemy close by they will start shooting which looks highly unrealistic.

So yes I support the people saying there should be a crew and I even think it is a important thing because I see this nearly every mission I fly!

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:46 PM
Here's where you hurt your credibility.

"...Unmanned robotic Flak has to be the lamest "feature" of IL2:FB"

What are we playing here, an air combat simulator, or an Anti Aircraft Gun simulator??

I can think of 100 other things that need to be fixed or tweaked with regards to IL2:FB.

And to the other guy...

I lose 3 FPS in heavy prop-wash dust-effect in beta 8 with a 2.25 GHz machine with 1GB ram and a Geforce4 TI 4600.
4x Anisotropic w/ Texture Sharpening
1280x960x32
NO FSAA

Don't try to tell me the little things don't pile up.

If you're flying that close to see or not see the "person" "manning" the AAA guns, then you're not delivering your ground ordinance properly.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 12:03 AM
Spy17 wrote:
- So yes I support the people saying there should be a
- crew and I even think it is a important thing
- because I see this nearly every mission I fly!

I really don't believe this would add anything useful to the game in anyway.

And this stuff about not hitting the gun, that just sounds like poor gunnery. Anyway, if you hit the crew and the ammo, they can bring in more guys and ammo. Until the gun is destroyed, it can be put back in operation.

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XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 12:11 AM
tolwyn.com wrote:
- And to the other guy...
-
- I lose 3 FPS in heavy prop-wash dust-effect in beta
- 8 with a 2.25 GHz machine with 1GB ram and a
- Geforce4 TI 4600.
- 4x Anisotropic w/ Texture Sharpening
- 1280x960x32
- NO FSAA
-
- Don't try to tell me the little things don't pile
- up.
-
- If you're flying that close to see or not see the
- "person" "manning" the AAA guns, then you're not
- delivering your ground ordinance properly.
-
-

wow, my post seems to have gone right over your head. what i asked was whether everyone thought the dust was a necessary addition or not, not that it doesn't affect fps. in essence, my point was that it did affect fps, but that it could be scaled down. since i haven't played the leaked beta patch, i wouldn't know whether or not you can turn off the dust, but i would assume that if it had been included on the cd, you would be able to scale down the options to turn off the dust.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 01:23 AM
VERY good question.

- What are we playing here, an air combat simulator,

The answer is on the game's package: IL-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles. Was the IL-2 primarily used in air-to-air combat, or in ground attack? If you can convince me that the "marquee" A/C in this game was *not* a Ground Attack aircraft flown mostly at alt. under 500 meters when attacking, then I'll never mention ground objects in this forum again. Unlike in modern airforces where jets drop their bombs and missiles from 1,000's of feet alt, the Soviet pilots preferred method was to get "up close and personal" with the target area. After rockets and bombs are released, cannon and MG's, including the rear gunner were fired against troops and vehicles. Same applies to Stuka pilots, P-38 pilots, P-47 pilots, etc.

- I can think of 100 other things that need to be
- fixed or tweaked with regards to IL2:FB.
-

I wont dispute that, but most of these are already being addressed by the soon-to-be-released patch (maybe i'm naive /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ), so it doesn't hurt to ask for future add-ons at this point.

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54LUT3!

"Fighter Aces don't win wars" -- el Zed

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 04:38 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Tagert, I would understand your concern if there
- wasn't a patch already on the way, but there is.
- Taking that into account

You say that like you know the patch will fix everything? I can tell you from experance.... They hardly ever do, and sometimes introduce other and sometimes more bugs.

- and my other points your concerns are not really
- valid.

Diagree 100%.

- We already pump pilots and guys in jeeps full of
- lead, so what the hell is the difference if they
- are manning a gun?

Never said there was a difference, I only responded to someone that said there was. NOTE I didnt bring up the VIOLANCE rating thing, I just responded to someone else. But know this, those tree hugging do gooders will and can suprise you the way they value a BUG, FROG, BIRD, etc's life over that of a HUMANS... So all Im saying is I woudnt be suprised if there were such laws that forced game makers to take out the DEER in WW2F.

- And the performance hit would be very minor.

Maybe... Maybe not... BUT THAT IS REALLY NOT MY POINT EITHER!!!!!! **MY POINT** is the **TIME** and **MONEY** set aside to **DO THINGS** would be better spent on fixing what we **HAVE** instead of **ADDING** more.

- Maybe they could put it under the perfect setting
- or make it an option.

More time and money wasted IMHO, fix what we got before they add more. Which is another way of saying fix the more important thing fist, ie the things related to **FLYING**.

- It was just a suggestion and everybody
- has a right to their opinion, including you.

EXACTALLY! Funny how many folks say that, and then in the next breath tell you to shut up! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- You've made your point,

Made and MAKING! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- but most of us here disagree.

Then my work is NOT DONE! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 05:41 AM
Tagert, do you know most bugs won't be fixed? If they are not fixed then that means they are obviously not aware of them so no time would be taken away from "bug fixing" anyway. And try posting like an adult, you are making a complete a$$ out of yourself. Most here have posted with respect, try to do the same.


I wrote:

"You've made your point, but most of us here disagree."

tagert wrote:

"Then my work is NOT DONE!"

So you won't let others have their opinion? You'll just keep posting your opposition over and over again like a child? Grow up and try to learn to respect the opinions of others. I disagree with you but everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when you keep posting your perspective when others want to be heard that is being immature and rude.

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"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 06:19 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Tagert, do you know most bugs won't be fixed?

No more than you know that they will be.

- If they are not fixed then that means they are
- obviously not aware of them so no time would be
- taken away from "bug fixing" anyway.

Your getting the word fixxed and addressed mixed up.

- And try posting like an adult, you are making
- a complete a$$ out of yourself.

I know I know... arguing with a child like you does make an adult like me look bad... But Im just trying to help fill in the blanks that your dad left out when he left home so many years ago.

- Most here have posted with respect, try to
- do the same.

Said the guy who just called me an a$$

- I wrote:
-
- "You've made your point, but most of us here
- disagree."
-
- tagert wrote:
-
- "Then my work is NOT DONE!"
-
- So you won't let others have their opinion?

Hey kid... What part of the smilly face did you not comprehend?

- You'll just keep posting your opposition over and
- over again like a child?

Nope, like a concerned consumer... Dont feel bad, kids make that misstake alot!

- Grow up and try to learn to respect the opinions
- of others.

If the shoe fits... RUN WITH IT!

- I disagree with you but everyone is entitled to
- their opinion,

DING! Your learning!

- but when you keep posting your perspective when
- others want to be heard that is being immature
- and rude.

To the untrained eye... ie a kid's view yes.



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 07:46 AM
LOL tagert. Keep posting, you look more ridiculous with every word. You are calling me a child? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Look at your tone, and the manner with which you speak. Compare my writing and the way I present my points with the way you are speaking (the frequent yelling and use of the caps lock key really isn't needed). And calling you an a$$ is not immature, I'm emphasizing my point. Sorry you can't comprehend the difference. Your posts say more about you than I could put into words.

And making comments about "my daddy" leaving blanks in my knowledge and his leaving of home so long ago is about as childish as it gets. If you are even remotely close to being an adult I feel sorry for you and those around you. Again tagert, grow up and show some respect to others please.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 08:04 AM
I have 2 questions for the detractors of this idea...
First: why are you so vehemntly opposed to a suggestion for increasing the envinroment of this sim? Noone has said that we want it now, but when Oleg is deciding on things to add to the envinroment he can look at this thread and see that we would like this added... just like he did with the telephone poles.
Second: From what I have seen in other threads, the team that is working on objects and maps aren't coding the planes... so what harm can come from offering those teams some suggestions on what we, the customers, would like to see?
I just think it's silly and childish to see such knee jerk reactions to a suggestion for future enhancements.
Tagert, don't bother replying, we all know that I am a kid and that somehow this will get in the way of your agenda... or something silly like that. ;-D

Mirthain =FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 03:22 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- LOL tagert. Keep posting, you look more ridiculous
- with every word.

Like a FOX!

- You are calling me a child?

Well only in responce to you implying that I am one... Yes I fell for your TROLL, call me silly! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Look at your tone, and the manner with which
- you speak.

The part about my opinion being as valid as the rest... I know, I know alot of kids have a problem with that. They can say it, but dont really understand what it means. In that they say *it* then in the next breath get upset that someone does not agree with thier opinion... Shoe Fit?

- Compare my writing and the way I present my
- points with the way you are speaking

Better yet, YOU TELL ME what it is your refering to PRIOR to my last post to you that was in responce to your childish statments... ie here is what you said, ie the COMPARE part you requested

>>And try posting like an adult,

and

>>you are making a complete a$$ out of yourself

See that is what I get when I COMPARE your writing to mine.


- (the frequent yelling and use of the caps
- lock key really isn't needed).

yelling and use of caps? I thought the net nerds considered them one in the same? Where as I just use them to empisize things... But feel free to call it yelling... Just as long as it grabs your att Im happy.

- And calling you an a$$ is not immature, I'm
- emphasizing my point.

LOL! Oh.. Ok.. so is that what the kids are calling it these days? Nice try... NO SALE!


- Sorry you can't comprehend the difference.

LOL! Yeah.. that's it! Funny how kids just dont get it, I mean they no sooner say "eveyone" can have an opinion, then get all upset when somone has a opinion in oposition to theirs, and NOW they think that when they call someone an A$$ or a CHILD that it is emphasizing a point when they say it and rude when others say it... WOW what a convient world you live in kyrule2 where everything you do is RIGHT and everything everyone else does is WRONG even when it is the same thing.

- Your posts say more about you than I could put
- into words.

Well kids do tend to have a limited vocabulary!

- And making comments about "my daddy" leaving blanks
- in my knowledge and his leaving of home so long ago
- is about as childish as it gets.

In responce to you calling me a child and an a$$ I thought it was pretty mild... Oh and funny too!

- If you are even remotely close to being an adult
- I feel sorry for you and those around you.

Gee I feel so empty inside... kyrule2 feels sorry for me.. Boo Hoo how will I ever continue?

- Again tagert, grow up and show some respect
- to others please.

Got a mirror? Kid! PS I added a few links to my tag line, check them out, they were intended for you!


TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 03:31 PM
Arm_slinger wrote:
- i have noticed this as well, and would no doubt
- heighten FB just with this little factor Model the correct number of men
- per gun, give them a hit box or what ever each. So
- if you strafe the gun and it dont go bang, you can
- at least get the crew /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
- all in favour raise your hands


VERY good idea if it can be kept without slowing the system too much.

Idea of the week!!!

Very good!

/Petter_Gul
CO, Flygflottilj 16
#1 Swedish Virtual Squadron
http://www.f16vs.tk
_________________________

"Slider.... You Stink..."

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 03:38 PM
Mirthain wrote:
- I have 2 questions for the detractors of this
- idea...

Ok shoot.

- First: why are you so vehemntly opposed to a
- suggestion for increasing the envinroment of this
- sim?

Vehemntly opposed? Not me! I just have... now get ready... this is gonig to hurt... I just have a different OPINION of what THINGS would increas the envinroment (some call it imersion) of this sim.

- Noone has said that we want it now,

No one said they didnt either.

- but when Oleg is deciding on things to add to the
- envinroment he can look at this thread and see that
- we would like this added...

Let me see if I understand this... You really belive that Oleg and the team need to be told that GUNS should have PEOPLE manning them? Even though some GUNS allready do.. Is that what you want me to belive? See.. what I belive is they only had so much time and money and CPU cycles to do things.. and they decided that there were more important things to devote thier time, money and CPU cycles on. It is really that simple.

- just like he did with the telephone poles.

Yes... Im sure it never crossed thier minds, and that the only reason we have them now is that someone here pointed it out to them... If you belive that, I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in?

- Second: From what I have seen in other threads, the
- team that is working on objects and maps aren't
- coding the planes... so what harm can come from
- offering those teams some suggestions on what we,
- the customers, would like to see?

Nothing wrong with it... And nothing wrong with someone disagring with you on it... Or is there? Is it too hard for the telephone pole lovers and the peopel gunners to realise that other people think these things are not as important as other things?

- I just think it's silly and childish to see such
- knee jerk reactions to a suggestion for future
- enhancements.

And I think it is silly and childish to get all upset if someone has a different opinon on your opinion.

- Tagert, don't bother replying, we all know that I am
- a kid and that somehow this will get in the way of
- your agenda... or something silly like that. ;-D

Oh dang... I really need to start reading the ends of a post before I start replying to them.. So many guys are hiding little msg in thier post to me these days! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Well check out my links, hope they help

TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 05:00 PM
Timmothias wrote:

- wow, my post seems to have gone right over your
- head. what i asked was whether everyone thought the
- dust was a necessary addition or not,

Oh crap. Yeah. Guilty as charged. Sorry, Timmothias.

Again, I stand by that I support anything that adds "coolness" factor to the game, in so far as it doesn't compromise system performance too much; or that if it does, it's an optional graphical settings option.

Prop wash necessary? Nope. Not at all.
So, who decides what gets added?
FYI: It's possible prop wash effect was in the original game design document.

But then again, so was swaying GRASS!!!
And photo-realistic textures!

And I still think that adding the features in this thread would be cool, yes, but I just don't see it being a priority; nor do I see the lack of the requested feature "ruining FB."

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 05:07 PM
tolwyn.com wrote:
-
- Timmothias wrote:
-
-- wow, my post seems to have gone right over your
-- head. what i asked was whether everyone thought the
-- dust was a necessary addition or not,
-
- Oh crap. Yeah. Guilty as charged. Sorry, Timmothias.
-

wow. salute! for admitting you were wrong. that's very impressive. i don't see people acting like that much on these forums http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 05:09 PM
ROFL.
Dude... I was married for 9 years. I have plenty of experience being wrong.

I have so many more opportunities today to be wrong, too. I'm just gettin' warmed up. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 06:03 PM
Actually this request is already being worked on: for Oleg's next flight sim game.

"Just for example now the tank in IL-2 has from 300 to 1000 polygons, but in new sim it is about 3-4 times more (or even greater sometime)....and will have the damage model like the aircraft now in FB. How will looks the ground in a new sim you may look on Battelfield Command screen shots. It will be close to this or even better from the aircraft point of view."

http://www.dailygame.net/Articles/media/screens/bttlfldcmd/bttlfldcmd1.jpg


Well there goes the theory of "it won't be done because too much of a hit on the framerate, PC's cant handle it, don't need ground objects in a air combat game, my brain is too small to understand, etc...."

I doubt we'll see these kinds of add-ons for FB, but nice to know that Oleg agrees with me and other great minds like me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

54LUT3!

"Fighter Aces don't win wars" -- el Zed

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 06:06 PM
with the AAA's acurate fireing who needs a person operating it

<center>I know my name is spelled wrong

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 06:35 PM
What we need is extreme violence. If you vaporize a bomber with a full crew, all their internal organs and blood should be present. Then track damage to each person and have their guts and stuff flying about.

Maybe you get blood all over you windshield and pieces of intestines and brains sticks to it as you fly through the debris.

The more realistic blood and gore the better. Say you are in cockpit mode, you should be able to see your body when looking around. If you take a 20mm to the guts you should see your intestines spread about your cockpit.

Instead of getting mad and yelling at the person who just vulched you, you will be too busy keeping your lunch down after seeing the "eye candy".

Of course you should be able to turn AAA gunners and infantry into little bits of red goo also.

I say in about 5 years computers can handle that amount of detail.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 07:37 PM
5 years?! bah, you haven't played soldier of fortune have you?

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 08:17 PM
SOF doesn't count. The level size and number of objects are no where near as cpu taxing as it would be if you tried that amount of detail in a flight sim and the wide open levels.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 10:40 PM
i was just kiddin

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 11:03 PM
Tagert, I can't believe you have the audacity to direct me to a link featuring a dictionary. You have so many grammatical errors in your posts its pathetic. Maybe you should spend less time posting and more time reading. And I know the meaning of the words "forum" and "discussion." Do you know the meaning of the words "maturity", and "respect?" You are the one attacking people for posting their opinions, not the other way around. You need the mirror, not I.

And I didn't call you an a$$, I said you were acting like an a$$. Stop harping on the fact that I used that word, its not immature, its a descriptive term that is appropriate at times (like this).

You are the most ignorant person I have seen on this forum yet. Most people around here know what kind of person I am, but I'll let everyone else here judge for themselves what kind of person you are. I've wasted too much time on you already.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.



Message Edited on 08/08/0305:33AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 11:44 PM
And while were adding the (no fps eating low-poly) gunners on land , how about the flak ships? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 10:57 PM
Kyrule,
Don't bother about going after Tagert, He is a Troll that gets threads he disagrees with locked by getting people all upset and going after him... it's not worth it.

As for the blood and gore issue, where did that come from?
I don't need that stuff nor do I want it. I think that 99% of the people in favor of this and other detail ideas don't either. But having some kind of life depicted on the airfields and even the ships wouldn't hurt to add some realism to the sim. As much as the start-up smoke and dust from the tires and propwash.

BTW, Smoke/dust effects are much bigger FPS hit than a low poly object.

Tagert, Please don't reply, you are just being disruptive and argumentitive. We understand you don't agree. Thanks for your input.

Mirthain =FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:08 AM
Bump

As someone put it earlier, there are already low-modeled soldiers driving jeeps, we just need them on the AAA guns too. That's as simple as that.

I don't think the processor usage point is an issue really.

This game claims to come as close to realism as technology allows, well it certainly allows adding a few guys behind guns. They don't even need to be animated at all. Let's just get rid of these guns shooting with the help of the holy spirit...

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:19 AM
SKULLS_LZ wrote:

-- What are we playing here, an air combat simulator,
-
- The answer is on the game's package: IL-2 Sturmovik:
- Forgotten Battles. Was the IL-2 primarily used in
- air-to-air combat, or in ground attack? If you can
- convince me that the "marquee" A/C in this game was
- *not* a Ground Attack aircraft flown mostly at alt.
- under 500 meters when attacking, then I'll never
- mention ground objects in this forum again. Unlike
- in modern airforces where jets drop their bombs and
- missiles from 1,000's of feet alt, the Soviet pilots
- preferred method was to get "up close and personal"
- with the target area. After rockets and bombs are
- released, cannon and MG's, including the rear gunner
- were fired against troops and vehicles. Same
- applies to Stuka pilots, P-38 pilots, P-47 pilots,
- etc.


Good point. How can people say air-to-earth combat is secondary when whole Jabo campaigns are implemented in the game and the title plane of the game is an air-to-ground bomber? Fighting AAA robots doesn't help simulating a WWII experience in my humble opinion.

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:51 AM
cigogne wrote:
-
- SKULLS_LZ wrote:
-
--- What are we playing here, an air combat simulator,
--
-- The answer is on the game's package: IL-2 Sturmovik:
-- Forgotten Battles. Was the IL-2 primarily used in
-- air-to-air combat, or in ground attack? If you can
-- convince me that the "marquee" A/C in this game was
-- *not* a Ground Attack aircraft flown mostly at alt.
-- under 500 meters when attacking, then I'll never
-- mention ground objects in this forum again. Unlike
-- in modern airforces where jets drop their bombs and
-- missiles from 1,000's of feet alt, the Soviet pilots
-- preferred method was to get "up close and personal"
-- with the target area. After rockets and bombs are
-- released, cannon and MG's, including the rear gunner
-- were fired against troops and vehicles. Same
-- applies to Stuka pilots, P-38 pilots, P-47 pilots,
-- etc.
-
-
- Good point. How can people say air-to-earth combat
- is secondary when whole Jabo campaigns are
- implemented in the game and the title plane of the
- game is an air-to-ground bomber? Fighting AAA robots
- doesn't help simulating a WWII experience in my
- humble opinion.
-
-
-
-
-
-


good points, but let's keep in mind this is nothing to ruffle our feathers over. it's merely something that will add a little bit more realism

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 08:22 AM
Anything that would make the ground war feel more alive would be most appreciated.

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 05:36 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Tagert, I can't believe you have the audacity to
- direct me to a link featuring a dictionary. You have
- so many grammatical errors in your posts its
- pathetic.

Ah, missed the point huh? The audacity had nothing to do with spellin or de grammer an everything to do with the definition of what goes on in a FORUM! You know that thing where you sugest people should not disagree with what other people say... It just ait true! I saw that you had that all confused, thus the links for you and yours!

- Maybe you should spend less time posting
- and more time reading. And I know the meaning of the
- words "forum" and "discussion."

Shoe fit?

- Do you know the meaning of the words "maturity",
- and "respect?"

Do you? I think not, in that it is clear that you are not mature enough to realise that respect is earned, not given.

- are the one attacking people for posting their
- opinions, not the other way around. You need the
- mirror, not I.

Still dont understand what a forum is huh? Just because your feelings get hurt when someone does not agree with you does not equate to an attack on you.

- And I didn't call you an a$$, I said you were acting
- like an a$$. Stop harping on the fact that I used
- that word, its not immature, its a descriptive term
- that is appropriate at times (like this).

LOL! Nice try TROLL boy!

- You are the most ignorant person I have seen on this
- forum yet.

Comming from somene I dont respect... that means nothing to me!

- Most people around here know what kind of
- person I am, but I'll let everyone else here judge
- for themselves what kind of person you are.

Thanks! Maybe you are starting to catch on to that whole forum thing?

- I've wasted too much time on you already.

Now you know how your mom feels.



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 05:49 PM
Mirthain wrote:
- Kyrule,
- Don't bother about going after Tagert, He is a Troll
- that gets threads he disagrees with locked by
- getting people all upset and going after him... it's
- not worth it.

Is that what I do? Or does it start with people saying your "acting like an a$$" and then try to say dance around that troll statment and say that acting is not the same as being? Old troll tatic and excuse... weak really, which is why I dont dance around it, I just flat out say it if I think it so.. Does upset alot of the net nerds in that I dont play the dance around it game and or fall for it.

- As for the blood and gore issue, where did that come
- from? I don't need that stuff nor do I want it. I
- think that 99% of the people in favor of this and
- other detail ideas don't either. But having some
- kind of life depicted on the airfields and even the
- ships wouldn't hurt to add some realism to the sim.

Problem is no mater how much they do add, it is never enough! There will allways be someone that can find something missing in a sim vs reality. They usally go hand in hand with the people that dont understand economics and think there is a island out there where sims are made where no body ever grows old, money grows on trees, and they can stop time to finish all the little goodies.

- As much as the start-up smoke and dust from the
- tires and propwash.

Simple.. This is a flight sim, address the flight sim issues first, dust n propwash are good examples of that,

- BTW, Smoke/dust effects are much bigger FPS hit than
- a low poly object.

But limited to the time of take off, where as a man on a gun would have to be modeled all the time.

- Tagert, Please don't reply, you are just being
- disruptive and argumentitive.

See the links at in my tag line.

- We understand you don't agree. Thanks for your input.

I have plenty more where that came from! Tiz the nature of a forum.. Oh wait, see the links in my tag line before reading that line if you want to understand why I reply!

Oh and allmost forgot, Still no comment on if you really belive that Oleg and the team need to be told that GUNS should have PEOPLE manning them? Even though some GUNS allready do.. Is that what you want me to belive? See.. what I belive is they only had so much time and money and CPU cycles to do things.. and they decided that there were more important things to devote thier time, money and CPU cycles on. It is really that simple.

TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

Message Edited on 08/09/0309:52AM by tagert

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:16 PM
"2. Rating of game would change (violence)*"

I don't think that is true - as mentioned, you can kill people in this game.

Strafe parachutes, etc..


I don't tend to stare too long at firing artillery to care about a human there or not - I just want to disable it as quickly as possible http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://forgottenwars.dyndns.org
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg

Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 06:27 PM
Recon_609IAP wrote:
- "2. Rating of game would change (violence)*"
-
- I don't think that is true - as mentioned, you can
- kill people in this game.
-
- Strafe parachutes, etc..

Weeell... Not saying I know what IS or IS NOT considered to be violence in a game.. Because to trully undestand that you would have to get inside the mind of some do gooder psyco babbling gov job person.. The pita type of mind sets where it is ok to shoot a HUMAN in a parashoot... but not ok to shoot a HORSE pulling a cart... That is just TOO violent to the pita minded do gooder psyco bablin gov job people who get paid to draw the line somewhere. But seriosuly, if you could see what they consider to be violent vs not violent you would probally get a good laugh! Dont quote me, but I think some sim in the past got a violent rating because it allowed you to shoot a horse pulling a cart or a deer running through the woods... See them pita minded do gooder psyco babbling gov job folks watched BAMBI over and over on a VCR loop growing up because thier parents were too busy with thier CARERES to play with the kinds instead... note that is my pita minded psyco babblin take on the psyco babling gov job types! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- I don't tend to stare too long at firing artillery
- to care about a human there or not - I just want to
- disable it as quickly as possible /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Agree 100%! Too bad more folks dont have the imagination to fill in the blanks like that... It is never enough.. if they did add men to the guns... these same people would be complaning that there are no NAME TAGS on the shirts of these guys so they can keep track of who they shot.



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=forum
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 07:28 PM
lol, name tags http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://forgottenwars.dyndns.org
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg

Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 09:02 PM
Tagert, I say you are acting like an a$$ and you say this is immature and trolling, which its not. You make comments about my mother and father and I guess you feel this is justified?

I know the meaning of the word forum, but you are obviously clueless to what that entails. Again, and try to keep up with me, YOU are the one attacking people for disagreeing with you, not me. It's sad, because I know you still won't understand.

And you still have missed the point concerning maturity and respect, it is obvious you will never understand the meaning of these words. And I am well aware that respect is earned not given, and your actions/manner deserve no respect whatsoever.

I never danced around anything either, my comments are very straight forward but your limited mental capacity is unable to comprehend what I am writing. And there is a difference between acting like an a$$ and being one, you can't even understand that?

You say you always say what you feel, so to make you happy I'll do the same. I'll sink to your level for a moment, it's the only way you will understand anything I write.

Making comments about my parents is a real spineless, pindick maneuver. Now you are not just acting like an a$$, you are being a complete a$$hole. And learn how to write/spell, it is fu*king embarrassing. I feel like I am arguing with a typing chimpanzee. If you were in front of me I would ram my fist through the back of your fu*king head. Is that straight forward enough for you?

I apologize to anyone (except tagert) who has to read this garbage, I wasn't going to respond but comments about my parents when I am trying to have a mature discussion couldn't be ignored. Again, I apologize.



<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.



Message Edited on 08/09/0308:05PM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 09:57 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Tagert, I say you are acting like an a$$ and you say
- this is immature and trolling, which its not.

Still... nice try troll... but no sale! If you want to try and use that tired old hook of acting.. then retreat to the safe zone of Clinton Politics of "I didnt say you were an A$$ just acting like one" As if acting is not being.. Well feel free.. But just know it does not work with me.

- You make comments about my mother and father and
- I guess you feel this is justified?

Justified? No, not at all, just tit for tat, in that it was after you called me an A$$ by saying Im acting like one.

- I know the meaning of the word forum, but you are
- obviously clueless to what that entails.

You think you know, is why I gave you the link, in that your mistakin! In that you yourself said, in so many words, that people should not have opions of other peoples opions!

- Again, and try to keep up with me, YOU are the
- one attacking people for disagreeing with you, not me.

That might work, in that noob troll world of yours were saying someone is acting like is not being like... But not here.

- It's sad, because I know you still won't understand.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

- And you still have missed the point concerning
- maturity and respect, it is obvious you will never
- understand the meaning of these words.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

- And I am well aware that respect is earned not given,

Beg to differ!

- and your actions/manner deserve no respect whatsoever.

Ok, well next time, if it will make you happy, Ill play your troll game and say your MOM/DAD are acting like XXXX instead just comming right out and saying it.

- I never danced around anything either,

LOL!

- my comments are very straight forward but your
- limited mental capacity is unable to comprehend
- what I am writing.

Are you saying Im acting like I have limited mental capacity... or now that you think your troll method has worked it is... How did you say it? Justified?

- And there is a difference between acting like an a$$
- and being one, you can't even understand that?

Ah.. true troll noob to the end... Keep saying it.. maybe if you say it enough it will come true?

- You say you always say what you feel, so to make you
- happy I'll do the same.

Been!

- I'll sink to your level for a moment,

Only after I sunk to yours.

- it's the only way you will understand
- anything I write.

Emm hmmm.. troll on.

- Making comments about my parents is a real
- spineless, pindick maneuver. Now you are not just
- acting like an a$$, you are being a complete
- a$$hole.

Feel better? Oh no.. wait... this is what you call justified? Right? In that you start off dancing around Clinton like... get someone to respond like a man, and when they do you feel justified in say what you didnt have the BALLS to say in the fist place... Because you can now try and hide like the troll that you are and claim HE DID IT FIRST... Sorry.. Been there done that, just wont fly with me bud! But big gold star for effort!!

- And learn how to write/spell, it is fu*king
- embarrassing.

LOL! Im sorry, were you operating under the impression that I give a RATS A$$ what you think about my spelling?

- I feel like I am arguing with a typing chimpanzee.

Feel better? Or Justified?

- If you were in front of me I would ram
- my fist through the back of your fu*king head.

HHEHAHEEHAHEAHAHHAHaa Belive you me, if you were standing in front of my 6'4" 225lb A$$ you would be doing nothing by wetting your pants!

- Is that straight forward enough for you?

It's been straight from the get go, you are just using very old troll tatics that most eveyone see's right through.

- I apologize to anyone (except tagert) who has to
- read this garbage, I wasn't going to respond

Yah you lied about that too.

- but comments about my parents when I am trying to
- have a mature discussion couldn't be ignored.

Only post your calling me an A$$! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Again, I apologize.

Emmm... Ok I accept!


TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 10:46 PM
I'm done with this, you understand nothing. People are welcome to search through your posts and search through mine to determine who is the immature, disrespectful troll and who is not. Everyone can see what type of person you are and that is good enough for me.

And again, my apology was directed at everyone but you.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.



Message Edited on 08/10/0312:00AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 11:33 PM
kyrule2 wrote:
- I'm done with this, you understand nothing. People
- are welcome to search through your posts and search
- through mine to determine who is the immature,
- disrespectful troll and who is not. Everyone can see
- what type of person you are and that is good enough
- for me.

I acepted your apology.. What more do you want from me?



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 02:15 AM
tagert, you are terrible at arguing.

1) Please stop taking up excessive space by reposting what everyone posts, and then putting your play-by-play in.
2) Why did you bring this topic up again? The suggestion has been made, and you have nothing to do with whether or not it makes it into the game. maybe you are on a power trip of some sort, or maybe you are slightly confused, but you really need to quit sticking up for the developers. In the end, they get to decide what is too demanding for their workload and our pc's. Also i feel you have no right to prioritise what suggestions are important and which are not. It is our opinion, and i don't appreciate you demeaning it with petty arguments and turning this thread into a pile of useless rubbish (as this post has become.)

i don't really care what you think of my opinions, but you should probably be told before you go running around, playing "oleg", and dismissing suggestions you feel are not necessary.

p.s. please do not repost my message as you have a habit of responding to individual statements and taking them out of context.

p.p.s. lemme pull a tagert before i go

tagert wrote:

Problem is no mater how much they do add, it is never enough! There will allways be someone that can find something missing in a sim vs reality.


i think you hit the nail on the head bud! i'm not sure about you, but i want something new and different every time i spend 50 dollars on a sequel. otherwise i would buy another copy of il2 every couple of years. and since this forum provides me a way to say what i do and do not want, i say so. i suggest you should do the same; if you want whatever it is that you want (please don't make me figure out what it is that you want from this game) then you have the freedom to go and make a suggestion, and hopefully you will not be so impeded while doing so.
sorry for bringing this thread up again, but if i didn't reply i would become as insane as someone reading a forum could get, which is to say, very insane.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 05:52 AM
Timmothias wrote:
- tagert, you are terrible at arguing.

I know.. I try.. And that is what really counts!

- 1) Please stop taking up excessive space by
- reposting what everyone posts, and then putting
- your play-by-play in.

Sorry, no can do! Just my style... If you dont like it, well sorry bout your bad luck! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But seriosly, I need to do it that way, in that if I dont some folks we accuse me of taking things out of context... Heck some will even accuse me of it when I DO.. So I sure as heck aint!

- 2) Why did you bring this topic up again?

Could you be a little more specific? I have keep alot of topic feet to the fire lately.. Which one are you refering to?

- The suggestion has been made, and you have nothing to
- do with whether or not it makes it into the game.

No more than you, Im just making sure my point of view gets out there.... Free Country and all... Well at least here in the USA... Where you from?

- maybe you are on a power trip of some sort, or maybe
- you are slightly confused, but you really need to quit
- sticking up for the developers.

Maybe you should get a mirror? What is wrong with agring with the good sense of the develpers? And on that note who are you to tell me to stop? I can agree or dissagree with who ever I choose... As long as I abide by the forum rules.. What part of that do you not uderstand?

- In the end, they get to decide what is too demanding
- for their workload and our pc's.

Never said they didnt... Im just making sure they know that some of us out here dont need name tags on the shirts of the men manning the AA guns.

- Also i feel you have no right to prioritise what
- suggestions are important and which are not.

Well good thing I dont give a rats a$$ about how you feel!

- It is our opinion, and i don't appreciate
- you demeaning it with petty arguments and turning
- this thread into a pile of useless rubbish (as this
- post has become.

Im sorry, were you operating under the impression that I give an F about what you appreciate?

- i don't really care what you think of my opinions,

Took the words right out of MY mouth!

- but you should probably be told before you go
- running around, playing "oleg", and dismissing
- suggestions you feel are not necessary.

LOL! God if only I could!

- p.s. please do not repost my message as you have a
- habit of responding to individual statements and
- taking them out of context.

LOL! Another one! I dare you... GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE of me taking something out of context... JUST ONE! Another guy who belive if he says something enough it will become true.. Gold star for effort! But no sale!

- p.p.s. lemme pull a tagert before i go

Ok give it a shot...

- tagert wrote:
-
- Problem is no mater how much they do add, it is
- never enough! There will allways be someone that can
- find something missing in a sim vs reality.
-
- i think you hit the nail on the head bud! i'm not
- sure about you, but i want something new and
- different every time i spend 50 dollars on a sequel.

Within reason yes, I agree, but you are not within reason IMHO!

- otherwise i would buy another copy of il2 every
- couple of years. and since this forum provides me a
- way to say what i do and do not want, i say so.

Same is true for me, it provides me a way to say what I do and do not want, and if that is in oposition to what you want... Well sorry bout your bad luck! If you cant handel someone not liking your idea, sugestion, opinion then maybe you should just keep it to yourself and spare you feeling getting hurt.

- i suggest you should do the same;

BEEN!

- if you want whatever it is that you want (please
- don't make me figure out what it is that you want
- from this game) then you have the freedom to go
- and make a suggestion, and hopefully you will not
- be so impeded while doing so.

What you talking bout willis?

- sorry for bringing this thread up again, but if i
- didn't reply i would become as insane

Become?

- as someone reading a forum could get, which is
- to say, very insane.

Agreed 100%



TAGERT
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If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 06:59 AM
you know you're great at being a spin doctor. you play the good-humored victim that's just sticking up for the "little guy", and making sure us mean old folks who want a little bit more out of our game that we paid for don't get too out of control, right? let me just say that this is my game, at least in some ways; oleg isn't volunteering or being forced to make this game; he's being paid, and you know what?? i'm helping to pay him. therefore i should have the freedom to come on this freaking forum and say that i support this miniscule detail without having to debate with a self righteous ***____ like you. did you get your copy for free? because you act like you're being allowed to play, like you have to ask ubi before you can boot up il2 or something.
i'd hate to break it to you, but i'm thinking the developers have as much, if not more common sense than you. if we start asking for name tags, you don't have to pipe up and say "the developers can't do that!" or "our pcs can't handle that!" because these guys are professionals. it is their job to figure out what is needed, what is possible, and what will lag our computers. and here's the zinger: they've been doing it for years.... without YOU!!! jesus, it's hard to believe, but bear with me. do you like il2? ok, now how much say did you have in creating it? hopefully your answers will be yes, and none to little, accordingly. this means that they can probably figure it out themselves, ok? so do the folks who want to post legitimate suggestions a big favor and stay out of the orr, because you obviously do not know how to handle yourself in these threads.

and btw, you are taking something out of context when you splice a paragraph into minor pieces and have different opinions about each different piece. the reason people divide things into paragraphs is because you are meant to read it all and then take one collective theme or thesis away from it. it's not right when you can "agree 100%" and in the next sentence, completely disagree. so when you read, think of paraphrasing, in your mind.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 07:09 AM
tagert wrote:

-- Also i feel you have no right to prioritise what
-- suggestions are important and which are not.
-
- Well good thing I dont give a rats a$$ about how you
- feel!
-
-- It is our opinion, and i don't appreciate
-- you demeaning it with petty arguments and turning
-- this thread into a pile of useless rubbish (as this
-- post has become.
-
- Im sorry, were you operating under the impression
- that I give an F about what you appreciate?
-
-- i don't really care what you think of my opinions,
-
- Took the words right out of MY mouth!
-
-
-- if you want whatever it is that you want (please
-- don't make me figure out what it is that you want
-- from this game) then you have the freedom to go
-- and make a suggestion, and hopefully you will not
-- be so impeded while doing so.
-
- What you talking bout willis?
-
-- sorry for bringing this thread up again, but if i
-- didn't reply i would become as insane
-
- Become?
-

before i leave, i want to address these replies of yours. who are you trying to impress? it's just you and me now. i'm not sure if you're trying to lighten up the situation but these just irritate me more. if you are trying to get more people on your side, i would suggest arguing in a more dignified manner instead of slinging mud at someone you don't even know, and posting semi-humurous (at best) replies to a serious discussion. if you want i can go find the url for the counter strike forum because it seems like you have gotten lost in the il2 forums instead.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 07:59 AM
Timmothias, don't waste your time on this idiot. He has got to be the biggest a$$hole I have ever seen on this forum. I'm glad a few others can see how immature and disrespectful this guy is. But like I said don't bother posting anything, he will just try to fragment what you say and twist it to suit him, totally missing the point of the overall post. You called him a self-righteous a$$ (and correctly I might add), so now he will feel it is appropriate/justified to insult your mother and father like the spineless b1tch he is. The worst thing you can do is let him p1ss you off, just laugh at his ignorance like I do. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.



Message Edited on 08/10/0306:59AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:41 AM
Timmothias wrote:
- you know you're great at being a spin doctor.

Huh? That is funny.. because not too long ago some guy told me.. and I quote

- tagert, you are terrible at arguing.

So, which is it?

- you play the good-humored victim that's just sticking
- up for the "little guy", and making sure us mean old
- folks who want a little bit more out of our
- game that we paid for don't get too out of
- control, right?

Wrong.

- let me just say that this is my game, at least
- in some ways;

Define mine.

- oleg isn't volunteering or being forced to make
- this game; he's being paid,

Huh... I dont recall ever saying he wasnt.. but contine.

- and you know what?? i'm helping to pay him.

LOL!

- therefore i should have the freedom to come on this
- freaking forum and say that i support this miniscule
- detail without having to debate with a self
- righteous ***____ like you.

Still dont get it huh? Bud.. you ARE free to come in this freaking forum and say that you support this miniscule detail.. BUT.. This being a forum you do how to debate with a self righteous a$$ like me! Ill say it again.. If your ego is so fragle that you can not handle someone not agreeing with your freedom to come in this freaking forum and say that you support this miniscule detail.. Than do YOURSELF a favor and dont! THE ONLY REASON TO SAY ANYTHING IN HERE IS TO GET FEEDBACK!!! If you cant handle the feedback, then SEND YOUR MINISCULE DETAIL DIRECT VIA EMAIL!! Where no one else can see it.

- did you get your copy for free?

LOL!

- because you act like you're being allowed
- to play, like you have to ask ubi before you can
- boot up il2 or something.

Your preception is way off! But please contine.. This is getting good.

- i'd hate to break it to you, but i'm thinking the
- developers have as much, if not more common sense
- than you.

Oh Im sure of it! The fact that those silly requests of yours are not in the game now proves it!

- if we start asking for name tags, you
- don't have to pipe up and say "the developers can't
- do that!" or "our pcs can't handle that!"

Lots of things in life I dont have to do, like take advice from you! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- because these guys are professionals. it is their job
- to figure out what is needed, what is possible, and
- what will lag our computers.

Agree 100%... Which is probally a good reason why you dont see your silly request in the game now?

- and here's the zinger:

Ok, let er rip..

- they've been doing it for years.... without YOU!!!

NO! really?

- jesus, it's hard to believe, but bear with me.

Ok... Ok... but promise me you will take a deep breath and count to 10... Ok... here let me help you... 1.. 2.. 3.. 4.. 5.. 6.. 7.. 8.. 9.. 10.. There feel beter? Ok contine.

- do you like il2?

Yes an IL2 FB. I personly feel it is the best sim in the years!

- ok, now how much say did you have in creating it?

As much as you did! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- hopefully your answers will be yes, and
- none to little, accordingly. this means that they
- can probably figure it out themselves, ok?

Bud.. I never said they couldnt! Mater of fact I have noted how well of a job they have done!! Over and Over! My only point is... You know, the one you keep missing, is my opinion of your opnion is just as valid. The perpose of a FORUM is fore debate and feedback on things said.. If you can not handle someone disagree with you, than you need to avoid forums!!! It is really that simple!!

- so do the folks who want to post legitimate

Legitimate? That is debatable... HEY! Thank god, this is a FORUM!! We can debate that legitimatacy of your statments!

- suggestions a big favor and stay out of the
- orr, because you obviously do not know how to
- handle yourself in these threads.

The only problem I have in these threads is people like you that are all for freedom of speach... as long as it is just them talking OR if people agree with them.

- and btw, you are taking something out of context
- when you splice a paragraph into minor pieces and
- have different opinions about each different piece.

Disagree 100%!

- the reason people divide things into paragraphs is
- because you are meant to read it all and then take
- one collective theme or thesis away from it.

Note 99 out of 100 times I break them at the paragraphs.. prob is some folks here gramer is as bad as mine, thus the run on sentences may need to be brokin up sometimes. But, I didnt delete anything or rearage anything, thus nothing out of context... Nice try though! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- it's not right when you can "agree 100%" and in the
- next sentence, completely disagree. so when you read,
- think of paraphrasing, in your mind.

Disagree 100%



TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:48 AM
Timmothias wrote:
- tagert wrote:
-
--- Also i feel you have no right to prioritise what
--- suggestions are important and which are not.
--
-- Well good thing I dont give a rats a$$ about how you
-- feel!
--
--- It is our opinion, and i don't appreciate
--- you demeaning it with petty arguments and turning
--- this thread into a pile of useless rubbish (as this
--- post has become.
--
-- Im sorry, were you operating under the impression
-- that I give an F about what you appreciate?
--
--- i don't really care what you think of my opinions,
--
-- Took the words right out of MY mouth!
--
--
--- if you want whatever it is that you want (please
--- don't make me figure out what it is that you want
--- from this game) then you have the freedom to go
--- and make a suggestion, and hopefully you will not
--- be so impeded while doing so.
--
-- What you talking bout willis?
--
--- sorry for bringing this thread up again, but if i
--- didn't reply i would become as insane
--
-- Become?
--
-
- before i leave,

Again? Ill have to install one of those revolving doors for you.

- i want to address these replies of yours.

Ok shoot..

- who are you trying to impress?

THE LADIES! Are you impressed?

- it's just you and me now.

Still not hip to this whole internet forum thing? You do realise that anyone can view this thread? Thus it is not just you ane me... Pam Anderson might read this and want to talk to me! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- i'm not sure if you're trying to lighten
- up the situation but these just irritate me more.

Defintally not trying to lighten it up! DEFINTALLY!

- if you are trying to get more people on your side, i
- would suggest arguing in a more dignified manner

Oh... Im sorry, are you under the impression that I come here or friendship? Or that I give a rats a$$ what you or anyone here thinks of me? PLEASE! Im here for one and only one reaons.. TO INSURE SOME WHINNIE KIDS DONT MESS UP THE BEST SIM IN YEARS WITH A BUNCH OF LAME EXCUSES... You know, like how they dumbed down the flight models from the orginal verions. Dont need anymore of that, so in an attempte to try and offset all you whinners.. I have alot of work to do to keep up! I am way out numbered by all you XGEN Quake Cat killing space ball types.

- instead of slinging mud at someone you don't even
- know, and posting semi-humurous (at best)

Semi? Come on.. Admit it, down right funny! Only at your expence, thus, not so funny for you and yours!

- replies to a serious discussion. if you want i can
- go find the url for the counter strike forum because
- it seems like you have gotten lost in the il2 forums
- instead.

LOST! That's a good one!



TAGERT
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If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 08:51 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Timmothias, don't waste your time on this idiot. He
- has got to be the biggest a$$hole I have ever seen
- on this forum. I'm glad a few others can see how
- immature and disrespectful this guy is. But like I
- said don't bother posting anything, he will just try
- to fragment what you say and twist it to suit him,
- totally missing the point of the overall post. You
- called him a self-righteous a$$ (and correctly I
- might add), so now he will feel it is
- appropriate/justified to insult your mother and
- father like the spineless b1tch he is. The worst
- thing you can do is let him p1ss you off, just laugh
- at his ignorance like I do.

Jezz how many times do I have to say it.. I ACCEPTED YOUR APPOLIGY!! There, feel better? God I hope so, cuz you sound like your going to need a change soon?



TAGERT
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XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 09:06 AM
What is "jezz?" Or "Appoligy?" Or "cuz?"

You live in the United States and your grammar is this bad?

ROFL. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You might as well start practicing your "regular, plus, or super" pitch now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Youz has a brite fewcher a head of yoo. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 08/10/0308:08AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 09:17 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- What is "jezz?" Or "Appoligy?" Or "cuz?"

Sad.. Another out of work English teacher with nothing better to do... They really should do something about that.. I mean all these parents wasting money seding thier kids to school for jobs in ART and English only to end up flipping burgers with a 4 year degree.

- You live in the United States and your grammar is
- this bad?
- ROFL.

Yes and Yes... Im sure I admited to both early on? Did you miss that like everything else?

- You might as well start practicing your "regular,
- plus, or super" pitch now

I live in CA, we pump our own gas here... So it wouldnt do me any good... I realised my limitations early on in life, never been a good speller.. but was good at math... So I joined the Army, save moeny for school and got my degree in engineering and doing just fine. So, dont worrie about me, Im G2G!

- Youz has a brite fewcher a head of yoo.

Agree 100%!



TAGERT
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If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 02:55 AM
LOL

- Oh... Im sorry, are you under the impression that I
- come here or friendship? Or that I give a rats a$$
- what you or anyone here thinks of me? PLEASE! Im
- here for one and only one reaons.. TO INSURE SOME
- WHINNIE KIDS DONT MESS UP THE BEST SIM IN YEARS WITH
- A BUNCH OF LAME EXCUSES... You know, like how they
- dumbed down the flight models from the orginal
- verions. Dont need anymore of that, so in an
- attempte to try and offset all you whinners.. I have
- alot of work to do to keep up! I am way out numbered
- by all you XGEN Quake Cat killing space ball types.

That has to the most moronic post you have ever made.

Ok, here is some info for your limited intelligence to comprehend.
1. Software companies don't have all of thier employees working on the same part of a program at the same time. They break into teams for different aspects of program.
Some write the interface, some code the scripts, some are modellers and some skinners, some make the maps etc..
Your argument that bugs in the planes won't be fixed by added ground effects and more realistic maps is not only ignorant, but shows your lack of comprehension of how companies work.
2. Message Board Trolls are people who enter a message board and use insulting and obviously inflammatory language to incite anger and argument amongst the posters.
Whether you intend this or not, that is what your posts are like. I am not alone in this opinion of you, many others feel the same way.
We also don't care about you or you being a friend, but you accuse us of trying to raise the bar of this sim and you accuse us of being "Xgen Quake Cat killing space ball types". You are arguing for the continuation of bad maps and ground objects on a sim that is designed to be flown less than 2000 feet. Our maps and ground objects should look like the maps in a Helo Sim, not a modern jet combat flight sim.
3. Treating someone with Respect and Dignity doesn't mean you like them. It is a sign of respect to a fellow human being. Makes no difference who or what they are, you should respect the people around you. By not doing so only proves your ignorance and lack of comprehension of what your responsibility is as a human. You call us kids, yet your own actions mark you as one. Perhaps not in age, but in your state of mind. Your following comments prove that.
---- Also i feel you have no right to prioritise what
---- suggestions are important and which are not.
---
--- Well good thing I dont give a rats a$$ about how you
--- feel!
---
---- It is our opinion, and i don't appreciate
---- you demeaning it with petty arguments and turning
---- this thread into a pile of useless rubbish (as this
---- post has become.
---
--- Im sorry, were you operating under the impression
--- that I give an F about what you appreciate?

This is the action of a Troll and you should be banned because of it. If you respond to this thread in this manner again, I will request it with the moderators of this board. With your previous actions in locked threads in the past I don't think it will take much.
We are trying to create a community here that allows people to work together on an amazingly good sim. You are attempting to destroy that. We request that you go away and stop harrasing us. Your opinion is noted and has been proven to be ignorant of the industry. Please go learn how to respect other people's opions while voicing yours.
If you notice in my response to the person who posted about the gore, I didn't have to resort to calling him names or personally attack him. That is what we are talking about.
What is really distressing is that I have to explain this to someone who is purportedly an adult.
And don't act surprised or smug that you know this. Your posts prove otherwise.

BTW, In answer to your earlier question to me...
Yes I am sure they may have considered it. But like so many other details that many of us consider important, they left it out to satisfy other needs. So now we are asking that they put it in. Just like your fixes.
Mirthain=FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 04:33 AM
Mirthain wrote:
- That has to the most moronic post you have
- ever made.

Oh lucky me, another out of work art major trying to apply some business stuff they made him take for his gen ed.

- Ok, here is some info for your limited intelligence
- to comprehend.

Ok, shoot... This ought to be good! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- 1. Software companies don't have all of thier
- employees working on the same part of a program at
- the same time. They break into teams for different
- aspects of program.
- Some write the interface, some code the scripts,
- some are modellers and some skinners, some make the
- maps etc..

Hey.. Question for you.. Where did I ever say they didn't have teams? Anyway, my point is simple.. maybe too simple.. Which is why your out of work BA degree A$$ missed it, trying to make things harder than they really are.. But to reiterate, my point is this... developing anything takes time and money.. So far so good? Ok, now pay attention here because I'm going to pick up the pace... Now in a perfect world there would be UNLIMITED amounts of TIME AND MONEY... But this is not a perfect world, therefore BOTH of those items are LIMITED. Thus you can show both of them as a PIE CHART. You have seen a PIE chart before? Right? If not, then just think of a PIE like your mom made.. Now Each person in the TEAM gets a slice of MONEY PIE.. That is

1 slice for the guy that writes the interface
1 slice for the guy that writes the scripts
1 slice for the guy that writes the modellers
1 slice for the guy that writes the skinners
1 slice for the guy that writes the maps
1 slice for the guy that writes the etc...

With this TEAM you have enough PIES (i.e. money) to feed them for 6 months (i.e. time)
Now assume your decided to hire 2 guys to make maps instead of the 1... Now.. that is going to make each PIE slice smaller... i.e. a PAY (CUT for everyone) OR you pay him as much as the rest.. Now, what that means is you now have to buy a BIGGER PIE everyday (i.e. more expensive PIE) to keep giving everyone the same amount of PIE each day.. Sounds pretty simple to do huh? Everyone is happy... But you forgot one thing... the TIME PIE.. Now that your buying bigger PIES your spending more EACH DAY.. Which means you will run out of money faster... Which means that ALL THOSE OTHER GUYS WILL NOT HAVE AS MUCH TIME TO WORK ON THE interfaces, scripts, models, skins, etc.. So.. as a developer.. you have to ask yourself what you want to do.. Do I want to make the best FLIGHT sim out there.. Or do I want to make a sim that does not excel at anyone thing.. but does a lot of things well.. A perfect example of this is WWII ONLINE.

- Your argument that bugs in the planes won't be fixed
- by added ground effects and more realistic maps is
- not only ignorant, but shows your lack of
- comprehension of how companies work.

Funny I was just thinking the same about you?

- 2. Message Board Trolls are people who enter a
- message board and use insulting and obviously
- inflammatory language to incite anger and argument
- amongst the posters.

Really? Ok let me see if I understand what you mean by insulting and obviously inflammatory language... If I were to say to you:

"That has to the most moronic post you have ever made"

or

"Here is some info for your limited intelligence to comprehend"

Would those statements qualify? If so, you might want to go back and read what YOU wrote to ME!

- Whether you intend this or not, that is what your
- posts are like.

Most are intended.... And ALL are in response to some thinly vailed troll tactics.. like yours... Classic example of trolling where you said:

- is not only ignorant, but shows your lack of
- comprehension

Now you and I know that ignorant is not actually a bad word... but most trolls like yourself toss it out there in the hopes of getting a response out of someone that is ignorant to the definition of ignorance. Nice try.. but no sale here! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- I am not alone in this opinion of you, many others feel
- the same way.

Well.. All I can do is say what I have said before.. I really don't give a RATS A$$ about your opinion of me! I do give a RATS A$$ about your opinions of this game, in that the Cat Killin Space Balls Xgen types out number guys like me who prefer FLIGHT sims over the likes of BF1942 with a little flight sim wrapped up in it.. Which is why I make every effort to make my opinion of things I consider to be along those lines.

- We also don't care about you or you being a friend,

Ah, good, then you wont be disappointed! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- but you accuse us of trying to raise the bar of this
- sim and you accuse us of being "Xgen Quake Cat
- killing space ball types".

One man's bar raising is another mans Quake... Got a problem with that? Sorry bout your bad luck!

- You are arguing for the continuation of bad maps

BAD MAPS!?!?! LOL! Now that is... How did you say it? "the most moronic post you have ever made"... But, given more time I'm sure you will out do yourself! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- and ground objects on a sim that is designed to be
- flown less than 2000 feet.

Designed to be flown at less then 2000 feet? Bud! Put the crack pipe down and step away from the online IL2 servers with all the options turned off and the enemy base so close you can see if from your base!!! Those Quake type of games where no-one ever get over 1000ft, or gets VULTCHED before they start the engine is not what this game was SOLY designed for!!! There are plenty of OPTIONS in the game for all types of playing... But sense you don't understand the FACT that other people might have a different OPINION from yours... I'm sure it also comes as a shock to you that some people use different OPTIONS to get the fight up in the air.

- Our maps and ground objects should look like the
- maps in a Helo Sim, not a modern jet combat flight
- sim.

Disagree... WHOOPS! Sorry.. I didn't mean to disagree with you... BUT I DID! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- 3. Treating someone with Respect and Dignity doesn't
- mean you like them. It is a sign of respect to a
- fellow human being. Makes no difference who or what
- they are, you should respect the people around you.
- By not doing so only proves your ignorance and lack
- of comprehension of what your responsibility is as a
- human. You call us kids, yet your own actions mark
- you as one. Perhaps not in age, but in your state of
- mind. Your following comments prove that.

Respect is earned, not given.. I do give everyone a basic amount of respect from the get go.. But when I see them using those thinly vailed troll tactics like you do, well, I don't dance around it, I come right out and say it.. So, forgive me for not playing the game!

- This is the action of a Troll and you should be
- banned because of it. If you respond to this thread
- in this manner again, I will request it with the
- moderators of this board.

LOL! OOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo.......... I'm ah scared!

- With your previous actions in locked threads in the
- past I don't think it will take much.

YOU GO GIRL!

- We are trying to create a community here that allows
- people to work together on an amazingly good sim.
- You are attempting to destroy that.

Disagree 100%... Oh dang... I did it again!

- We request that you go away and stop harrasing us.

HEHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHAHHEHAHAHEHEAAEHAEHE! Oh.. Ok, Ahhh let's see, Umm I request that you go away and stop harassing me? Is that how the game is played? Did I do good?

- Your opinion is noted and has been proven to be
- ignorant of the industry.

LOL! Nice try troll, no ignorant sale here!

- Please go learn how to respect other
- people's opions while voicing yours.

Funny.. took the words right out of my mouth!

- If you notice in my response to the person who
- posted about the gore, I didn't have to resort to
- calling him names or personally attack him. That is
- what we are talking about.

Didn't notice.

- What is really distressing is that I have to explain
- this to someone who is purportedly an adult.

Is exactly how I felt about the detailed PIE chart thing... Seem really basic to me.. But you just missed it completely... Why? Are you... (GET READY THINLY VAILED TROLL TATIC COMING UP) ignorant to basic business?

- And don't act surprised or smug that you know this.
- Your posts prove otherwise.

LOL! Oh hardly! I'm use to trolls like yourself.

- BTW, In answer to your earlier question to me...
- Yes I am sure they may have considered it. But like
- so many other details that many of us consider
- important, they left it out to satisfy other needs.

DING!

- So now we are asking that they put it in. Just like
- your fixes.

LOL! Yup.. JUST LIKE!


TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 01:32 PM
OK,
Let's change gears and see if we can get you to post something productive.
You obviously seem to have something else for the object modellers and map teams to do. What are they? What do you want to see that is more important than what we asked for?
Keep your answer limited to those teams. We would all like to see the bugs fixed too, but that isn't group we are talking to. If this was about adding planes or loadouts for planes then this would effect the teams working on the "major" bug fixes. But this isn't. So instead of just being contrary, put in your suggestions.

Your basic comprehension of how business economics works is fine for a very very small, or first release software house. But in this case, with a large and talented customer base that is willing to create anything you want with nothing more than thier name listed in the credits. You didn't take that into consideration in your pie post. Nor do you take into consideration contract employees for short term work. This game isn't in pre-release, it is in full release and these are the things that get built for post release games. Things that may have been discarded for the sake meeting the timeline for release or they weren't sure the customer base would like to see. We want them whether or not you do. BTW the Telephone Poles and some of the other ground objects were created by users, notthe team. This request could easily be handled by the user group.

- So.. as a developer.. you have
- to ask yourself what you want to do.. Do I want to
- make the best FLIGHT sim out there.. Or do I want to
- make a sim that does not excel at anyone thing.. but
- does a lot of things well..

Why not both? They have the time and the money between having some of the most popular games currently released. They can afford the staff to fix the bugs we find important in relation to the ground objects. Why is that hard for you to understand?

- One man's bar raising is another mans Quake... Got a
- problem with that? Sorry bout your bad luck!

Seems that we are the majority here, so it's your bad luck that we feel you are the Quake junkie here.

- Designed to be flown at less then 2000 feet? Bud!
- Put the crack pipe down and step away from the
- online IL2 servers with all the options turned off
- and the enemy base so close you can see if from your
- base!!! Those Quake type of games where no-one ever
- get over 1000ft, or gets VULTCHED before they start
- the engine is not what this game was SOLY designed
- for!!! There are plenty of OPTIONS in the game for
- all types of playing... But sense you don't
- understand the FACT that other people might have a
- different OPINION from yours... I'm sure it also
- comes as a shock to you that some people use
- different OPTIONS to get the fight up in the air.

By the way, your post here contradicts the argument you have. If they turned off all the detail levels, then they turned off our suggestion. But since we are trying for more realism in missions and to provide a more realistic terrain and objects why would you assume that I am playing that way?
I am primarily into Interdiction and Close support missions. This is my interest in increasing the detail of ground objects and map accuracy.

I don't play online in the public areas. Too many children and too much of the Quake mentality.
But look at the missions in single player. In most missions offline and Co-op you are not flying against high altitude bombers, you are within 5000 feet of the ground. And with LOD filters and changes in detail levels, all of this can be altered to run on any machine.
Our machines can handle them so we request them. My current card doesn't support perfect but do I feel it was a waste of thier time to create the water effects for only the minority of gamers? No! It raised the bar for this game. Just like details do. Have thousands of people upgraded thier computers to get the higher detail levels from this game? Yep! And they will continue to do so. Did the team provide a way for people without all the newest hardware to run the game just fine? Yep. This is just another detail option that can be tied to exsisting detail levels.

Mirthain =FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 01:46 PM
Lets get back to the subject here....

Lets talk about facts now ok?

1. I think it would be POSSIBLE to add a small 3d man just sitting there on the AA gun.

IF:

A). The developers or Oleg wants to.

B). If there is a 3d modeler on Maddox Games just sitting around doing nothing for a couple of days. This is not a big modification, its a mod of a 3d object, basically he can take the 3d guy from the jeep, select the vertices and "paste" it on the AA guns. Save the new AA gun model and put it in in the next addon patch. It IS as simple as that. However.... that does NOT include the AA damage modelling as for knocking out the crew to disable the AA gun. That is a different story that probably needs more testing or programming. Do we need that? I say, whatever makes the game more realistic, makes it more fun. But question is if they have time over at Maddox games. Im sure they are busy.

2. The only thing making games better and better, is to add more feautures/objects/better gfx/ etc,etc call it (FPS -killers) You might ask yourself this question:

Is it the hardware developers like Intel,AMD,Nvidia or ATI, that makes it possible to develop better games, or is it the game developers pushing the hardware industry to race for the best performing hardware??? (ATI and Nvidia is a good example in Halflife2 and other new games)

I still cant answer that question myself.

3. A perfect example of a feature of "game evolution" in IL2FB is the 1024x1024 skin. It has caused some problems, but would we want to remove this feauture and go back to the 512x512 neanderthal skin standard just to get better performance?
I say no. I say keep pushing for even higher resolution skins, let the future begin now... or as soon as possible !

It is the will to constantly make more realistic games/gfx that has given us IL2 and IL2FB, remember that.

4. I DO feel that the developers must make a better and more rigid "backbone" of the game before releasing it. I am talking about Flight Modelling, Damage modelling and 3d physics. In my opinion Id rather fly just 4 planes if the were modeled correctly, had a full working cockpit, damage model was ok. Rather that than having 50 planes flyable with so-so realism. Unfortunately 1C/Maddox has the wrong attitude regarding patches and updates of this game. But then again, it seems quantity before quality sells better and makes better profit for UBI. And these "odd planes" like BI-1 and other 3rd party stuff really makes me sad. In my opinion the only 3rd party that has been very good is the I16 and the He111 they have contributed to the value of the game, because the where common on the Eastern Front. All this whining about "I want Spitfire, I want Mustangs, I want this secret jetplane, I want this experimental plan, I want this what if plane" makes me really sad. What makes me even more sad is that Maddox games actually listenst to many of them. Im not saying no to addon planes, im saying:

1. Fix the "backbone" planes first
2. Add planes that were common on the Eastern front, not planes made in numbers from 1-10. Its kinda amusing when playing online and you see more planes up in the sky than actually existed for real! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
3. Put these weirdo planes in another sim or release the source code so they can add them themselves. The game engine is very good, and i can imaging a lot of cool planes in it, like modern Jet figheters etc. but dont let them ruin the FUNDAMENTAL GAME CONCEPT. War at eastern front 1940-1945.


My opinion about the patch:

Maddox Games follow the "fix alot of bugs, release big size and not so often" philosophy.

This has numerous of drawbacks:

1. There are so many new changes/fixes in the game it becomes harder to track down the bugs. A fixed bug can actually create a new bug somewhere else and the more fixed bugs at one time, the harder it is to catch these "new ones"

2. The patch will have quite some size, but this is ok since you only need to dowload it once a year or so. (still its not too good)

3. Once released the patch will create a MASSIVE PMW. Post modificational work, this is because the developer testers are few and the public is enormous. Chances are big that public will find a lot of bugs and demand fixes. Developers will then get more of a slap in the face than a "thank you".

In my opinion it would be better to fix patches in this order:

1. Update small and often. (once a month or once every 2 months)

2. This way the public/consumers can respond to the fixes in a feedback that is much more effective and thus it is kind of a public beta, and yet its not.

The download will be smaller but, however more often.

3. Developers can focus on fixing a problem once and for all. so it wount haunt them in the future.

4. The consumers will be satisfied and NOT loose interest of the product, since it is constantly renewing itself.


This is just my experience of gaming for the last 20 years.
In difference of many other ppl here I dont just play flight simulators. And Its only a GAME.
I play all sorts of games. I try to keep my mind open and see the sollutions, not the problems. This is however a flightsim junkie hangout so I guess Im ready for taking a beating for my opinions from all you junkies now.

So go ahead... Ill still be standing


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



/Petter_Gul
CO, Flygflottilj 16
#1 Swedish Virtual Squadron
http://www.f16vs.tk
_________________________

"Slider.... You Stink..."