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FireEagle17
11-25-2014, 02:05 PM
Hi guys

After playing as Haytham Kenway briefly in AC3 and again having appear in around half of AC Rogue, Haytham strikes me as an interesting character who has a history that would be interesting to delve into further. I would like to see his origins from being a young boy joining the Templar Order following his father's (Edward Kenway in AC Black Flag) death, his journey in England and other exploits there leading to him becoming a Grand Master, how he got his hidden blades and more about his adventures during AC3 when we did not see him (to bridge the gap, so to speak). This would also further the Templar side of gameplay which I personally found incredibly enjoyable after being an Assassin in so many of the previous games.

Do you guys agree that Haytham should have his own game, possibly developed for the previous-gen consoles (or possibly expanded across both current and previous-gen)?

What other suggestions would you have for a Haytham-orientated game?

marvelfannumber
11-25-2014, 02:15 PM
I would say yes a billion times, but that would be considered spam so i'll just say it once:

YES

Tysodie
11-25-2014, 02:29 PM
Everything you're asking for is actually in the book Forsaken

Pr0metheus 1962
11-25-2014, 03:31 PM
Do you guys agree that Haytham should have his own game...

Yes, but I think things have gone too far now. Rogue was a perfect opportunity, but they went with a different character. Since they've now had a Templar game from that exact same period, I doubt we'll see a Haytham Kenway game anytime soon, if ever.

The history of the Assassin's Creed franchise since AC: Revelations has been (apart from AC4) one of lost opportunities. As far as I'm concerned, Haytham Kenway is one of the biggest lost opportunities of the entire series.

hi2ukindsir
11-25-2014, 04:23 PM
Weird, I personally never had much interest in Haytham. Most of the characters actually never really sparked my interest. However the one character I really did like was Edward.

VestigialLlama4
11-25-2014, 04:46 PM
Hi guys

After playing as Haytham Kenway briefly in AC3 and again having appear in around half of AC Rogue, Haytham strikes me as an interesting character who has a history that would be interesting to delve into further. I would like to see his origins from being a young boy joining the Templar Order following his father's (Edward Kenway in AC Black Flag) death, his journey in England and other exploits there leading to him becoming a Grand Master, how he got his hidden blades and more about his adventures during AC3 when we did not see him (to bridge the gap, so to speak). This would also further the Templar side of gameplay which I personally found incredibly enjoyable after being an Assassin in so many of the previous games.

Haytham is interesting simply because he's a likable bad guy, outside of that he is not really interesting. He had a specific function in AC3 and once that function ended, there was no real story left for him. Haytham is interesting only in his relationship with his son, without Connor and the moral dilemma/personal connection we feel through him, Haytham doesn't work. Shay Cormac, and Elise moreso, are more interesting than him.

Already in ROGUE, all Haytham does is strut around while his Templar fanboys gush about how cool and awesome he is but he himself has no real characterization aside from being Dudebro-in-Chief of the Colonial Templars.


Do you guys agree that Haytham should have his own game, possibly developed for the previous-gen consoles (or possibly expanded across both current and previous-gen)?

What other suggestions would you have for a Haytham-orientated game?

About the only thing that can be interesting is say an Edward-In-England game, his relationship with his daughter, his marriage and his role as a father, while balancing it with his Assassin business. But aside from that, Haytham has no real story.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-25-2014, 05:03 PM
Haytham is interesting simply because he's a likable bad guy, outside of that he is not really interesting...

Even if you're right, he's still in the top three most interesting AC protagonists. I mean, I get it - Ubisoft has a problem with making interesting characters, but compared to Connor and Altair, Haytham at least HAS a character. He rises at least to the level of the series' more interesting characters (Arno, Edward and Ezio).

GunnerGalactico
11-25-2014, 05:28 PM
I agree that Haytham is one of the most interesting characters in this series, however, I know everything I need to know about him in Forsaken. I don't really need to see a visual representation of it in a game.

wickywoowoo
11-25-2014, 05:34 PM
I haven't completed Rogue yet so I guess something may happen to change my mind but I feel Rogue is progressing well enough to round off this segment of the AC story. I really do not want more pirate ship, America orientated Kenway stuff. It's over, like the Ezio era and Desmond/Altair stuff. I assume Unity will be a new era for AC but not started that yet so I'll find out.

No more Kenway/America though, please.

VestigialLlama4
11-25-2014, 05:47 PM
Even if you're right, he's still in the top three most interesting AC protagonists. I mean, I get it - Ubisoft has a problem with making interesting characters, but compared to Connor and Altair, Haytham at least HAS a character. He rises at least to the level of the series' more interesting characters (Arno, Edward and Ezio).

Haytham has no character beyond being witty English Badass/Colonial James Bond and the fact that he's confused that being a Templar will alienate him having a stable family life. As a villain, he retains an enigma and mystery which audiences can latch on to. He worked in the opening of AC3 where you are fooled into thinking he's an Assassin but once you found out he was a Templar, there would be no point continuing to play as him since it would be fairly dull.

The point is gaming needs to stop focusing so much on incarnating witty coolguys and think more in terms of story and setting and whether a character fits that world and time and place. Books and movies at least in mature examples have outgrown "likable" protagonists in the conventional sense of providing people a power fantasy.

Ezio had a natural warmth, friendliness and swashbuckling spirit that captured the Renaissance which was this optimistic period where people were rediscovering ideas and got a sense of human progress and ambition, with the age of discovery and all. Likewise Edward Kenway and the Age of Piracy, which is a period that's impossible not to romanticize. Serious characters would go against the spirit and time of these stories just as devil-may-care witty guys are out of place in AC1 and AC3. Connor may not be likable but he fits that story and setting and theme. I mean if they wanted to have a Templar lead and a white revolutionary, sure they can do that, but the only way that can be honest and realistic is that if the Templar was a slaveowner and led the Sullivan Raid in killing and displacing Native Americans and honestly that kind of game would be bold and gutsy.

The French Revolution was a period that was certainly quite swashbuckling and optimistic, but not for a noble moron like Arno whose flippancy would have had him strung up the lanterne in the first week after the bastille fell. Elise fits that time and period better than Arno as does Pierre Bellec, but the former is a woman who Ubisoft can't animate and Pierre Bellec is too morally ambiguous to allow gamers to play for a major title.

Minsooky
11-25-2014, 06:34 PM
Hi guys

After playing as Haytham Kenway briefly in AC3 and again having appear in around half of AC Rogue, Haytham strikes me as an interesting character who has a history that would be interesting to delve into further. I would like to see his origins from being a young boy joining the Templar Order following his father's (Edward Kenway in AC Black Flag) death, his journey in England and other exploits there leading to him becoming a Grand Master, how he got his hidden blades and more about his adventures during AC3 when we did not see him (to bridge the gap, so to speak). This would also further the Templar side of gameplay which I personally found incredibly enjoyable after being an Assassin in so many of the previous games.

Do you guys agree that Haytham should have his own game, possibly developed for the previous-gen consoles (or possibly expanded across both current and previous-gen)?

What other suggestions would you have for a Haytham-orientated game?

It already exists - in a book. Honestly IDK if I would like a full game with Haytham. Maybe a DLC. Not really sure what else could really be explored with him since it's already covered in AC3, Forsaken, and now a little bit in Rogue.

MatrixCerberus
11-25-2014, 07:16 PM
Hell yes.

Of all the templars he seemed like the one with honour and to be a really decent guy. I'd definately be for a Haytham game, in England.

Layytez
11-25-2014, 08:01 PM
Hell yes.

Of all the templars he seemed like the one with honour and to be a really decent guy. I'd definately be for a Haytham game, in England.
Yes he honoured his fathers memory very well.

SixKeys
11-25-2014, 08:10 PM
Nah. Haytham was cool, but let's not start milking every cool character to death until everybody's sick of them.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-25-2014, 08:21 PM
Nah. Haytham was cool, but let's not start milking every cool character to death until everybody's sick of them.

Yeah, far better to make entire games with characters that have all the charisma of a snail (Connor, I'm looking at you).

Rafe Harwood
11-25-2014, 08:39 PM
Yeah, far better to make entire games with characters that have all the charisma of a snail (Connor, I'm looking at you).

Connor was just misunderstood poor lad :D

SlyTrooper
11-25-2014, 11:18 PM
Nope. I want another Shay game. But I'm biased because he's become my favourite character.

SixKeys
11-25-2014, 11:33 PM
Yeah, far better to make entire games with characters that have all the charisma of a snail (Connor, I'm looking at you).

OR, they could make a game with a character that is neither boring nor endlessly recycled (Ezio). Imagine that! :rolleyes:

deskpe
11-26-2014, 01:41 AM
should haytham get his own game? Nope.

Fatal-Feit
11-26-2014, 01:52 AM
He should get more than that.

cawatrooper9
11-26-2014, 01:56 AM
A few months ago, I would have said yes. Now, if Ubi really feels it necessary to go back to the 18th century one more time, I think the title should feature Shay...

Though, even though we know the storyline, I'd kinda like a game version of Forsaken...

MatrixCerberus
11-26-2014, 09:36 AM
Nah. Haytham was cool, but let's not start milking every cool character to death until everybody's sick of them.

I don't think that would be milking Haytham as a character but rather building him further. Haytham did come across as a decent guy to me, and it'd be nice to see how he ended up in the position to go to the colonies in the first place. He was high up in the Templar order, that's for sure. They wouldn't let some random idjit take on such an important mission. Most assassins end up in the brotherhood after some serious personal losses. Was Haytham born into the templars? Did he join them? What'd he do to reach his position? Was he immature in the beginning like connor, and grew through what challenges? I think it's a major potential for a good game.

VestigialLlama4
11-26-2014, 01:38 PM
I don't think that would be milking Haytham as a character but rather building him further. Haytham did come across as a decent guy to me, and it'd be nice to see how he ended up in the position to go to the colonies in the first place. He was high up in the Templar order, that's for sure. They wouldn't let some random idjit take on such an important mission. Most assassins end up in the brotherhood after some serious personal losses. Was Haytham born into the templars? Did he join them? What'd he do to reach his position? Was he immature in the beginning like connor, and grew through what challenges? I think it's a major potential for a good game.

You can read all this in ''Forsaken'' by Oliver Bowden. Again Haytham Kenway is a Templar, always a Templar and never an Assassin, the only historical event he was involved in is when he served with the Coldstreams at the Siege of Bergen op Zoom, a fairly obscure historical event. Playing as Haytham would take away any appeal or interest he would have to begin with.

makki1993
11-26-2014, 02:31 PM
Next franchise: the templar order?

king-hailz
11-26-2014, 03:38 PM
No freakin way! I hate haytham! He is the most ****ish character in the whole series!!!! I hope to god they don't make a game of him because I would want to play because it's part of the serseries but I wouldn't because it's haytham!

ze_topazio
11-26-2014, 04:07 PM
I want a game about young Giovanni in Florence.

brotersinarms
11-26-2014, 04:53 PM
Just give me the Haytham Outfit for Shay and i'll be fine. The Rogue Story during the French Indian War is more for me than the French Revolution. I hope they stay with it, but we have to bring back the horses, end the ships, become more apart of the epic battles (Line Battles) and bring us some real outfits from that time period, rather than everything but.

JustPlainQuirky
11-26-2014, 05:46 PM
Even though before I said I wanted a Haytham DLC, I changed my mind.

We've seen enough of the amazing fella.

I vote for more Shay because he doesn't even have his own book OR DLC.

And give him Haytham robes for god's sake. He deserves it.

MakimotoJin
11-26-2014, 07:39 PM
Mayrice,if Shay gets a sequel after
Haytham is ded,then he might have his outfit,just like Arno has Bellec's after he ded

JustPlainQuirky
11-26-2014, 08:02 PM
Mayrice,if Shay gets a sequel after
Haytham is ded,then he might have his outfit,just like Arno has Bellec's after he ded

This would be the ultimate best compensation Ubisoft has ever given.

Pls, Ubi.

Do it.

VestigialLlama4
11-26-2014, 08:04 PM
Mayrice,if Shay gets a sequel after
Haytham is ded,then he might have his outfit,just like Arno has Bellec's after he ded

By the time that happens, Shay would be in his 50s.

JustPlainQuirky
11-26-2014, 08:05 PM
By the time that happens, Shay would be in his 50s.

Ezio was in his 50s when Revelations took place, no?

I could always go for playing Eseosa and SEEING Shay dressed as Haytham, lololol.

Namikaze_17
11-26-2014, 08:36 PM
Old Shay is gonna wreck shop!!! :rolleyes:

MakimotoJin
11-26-2014, 08:41 PM
Maybe just a DLC with Haytham and Shay doing some stuff with the Precursor box would be good as well.But I doubt that'll happen.

SlyTrooper
11-26-2014, 11:04 PM
Ezio was in his 50s when Revelations took place, no?

I could always go for playing Eseosa and SEEING Shay dressed as Haytham, lololol.

I wouldn't want that though because it would probably mean we'd kill Shay & I don't want to do that. Shay is the most interesting character since Daniel Cross, so I hope they don't wreck his character like they did with him. Although I will say that some of the audio stuff in Rogue made Cross slightly more redeemed.

Also, what does everyone think of Ottso Berg? I liked the way he was portrayed in Rogue. He was just as interesting as he was in Initiates.

I've just realised that I seem to only like characters who are Templars.

JustPlainQuirky
11-26-2014, 11:38 PM
I wouldn't want that though because it would probably mean we'd kill Shay & I don't want to do that. Shay is the most interesting character

Agreed.

And I liked Otso too.

Megas_Doux
11-26-2014, 11:42 PM
ENOUGH OF COLONIAL NORTH AMERICA!

In regards of Otso:

He is cool, like Shay. I just hope that somebody kills him, same for Shay haha

Namikaze_17
11-26-2014, 11:44 PM
I wouldn't want that though because it would probably mean we'd kill Shay & I don't want to do that. Shay is the most interesting character since Daniel Cross, so I hope they don't wreck his character like they did with him. Although I will say that some of the audio stuff in Rogue made Cross slightly more redeemed.

Also, what does everyone think of Ottso Berg? I liked the way he was portrayed in Rogue. He was just as interesting as he was in Initiates.

I've just realised that I seem to only like characters who are Templars.

I liked Otso Berg.

And I'm game for a Shay sequel, though killing him would suck ***.


You're not the only one who likes Templars. :rolleyes:



ENOUGH OF COLONIAL NORTH AMERICA!

In regards of Otso:

He is cool, like Shay. I just hope that somebody kills him, same for Shay haha


Who would you vote to kill Shay? :rolleyes:

ze_topazio
11-27-2014, 12:06 AM
After what he did to my city it needs to be a Portuguese Assassin to kill Shay, karma.

JustPlainQuirky
11-27-2014, 12:07 AM
Shay is too awesome to be killed off.

He should die a natural death with family by his side.

Megas_Doux
11-27-2014, 12:07 AM
You know Namikaze.....



Connor makes A LOT of sense, but at the same time it would be really odd considering that Shay is basically nowhere to be found in AC III time frame. Yes he could have returned from Paris to America to deliver whatever he took from Charles Dorian to Haytham. But again, Connor suddenly becoming aware of him is just bad writing.
Arno does not seem to care for his fatherīs killer at all. It would be the same scenario of Connor.
Eseosa could have both the motive and may be the knowledge, but he is just an initiates tool that pretty pretty few are aware of.

Rafe Harwood
11-27-2014, 12:10 AM
Shay is too awesome to be killed off.

He should die a natural death with family by his side.

And the perfect place for a Highlander quote...

... It's better to burn out, than fade away ;)

JustPlainQuirky
11-27-2014, 12:15 AM
no it's just that too many AC characters have met their unplanned end.

I miss the natural deaths.

Megas_Doux
11-27-2014, 12:19 AM
The Kurgan is the most badazzz character EVER!!!!! He should have won. I mean, look at him:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWvtB9OTHs


no it's just that too many AC characters have met their unplanned end.

I miss the natural deaths.

Altair died peacefully.
Ezio too.
Edward did not.
Connor and I quote

Dont get me started on his death

Ade:



Assassinated.

Rafe Harwood
11-27-2014, 12:21 AM
no it's just that too many AC characters have met their unplanned end.

I miss the natural deaths.

Dysentery, Typhoid, Plague? lol

Black_Widow9
11-27-2014, 12:22 AM
no it's just that too many AC characters have met their unplanned end.

I miss the natural deaths.
But.... isn't that like par for the course. I mean being a professional killer has to have some kind of consequences right?

Namikaze_17
11-27-2014, 12:37 AM
You know Namikaze.....



Connor makes A LOT of sense, but at the same time it would be really odd considering that Shay is basically nowhere to be found in AC III time frame. Yes he could have returned from Paris to America to deliver whatever he took from Charles Dorian to Haytham. But again, Connor suddenly becoming aware of him is just bad writing.
Arno does not seem to care for his fatherīs killer at all. It would be the same scenario of Connor.
Eseosa could have both the motive and may be the knowledge, but he is just an initiates tool that pretty pretty few are aware of.




Hmm...those are fair points indeed.

Really hard to tell where they may/may not go with this.


EDIT: Then again, you have to consider...

That with the Box, Shay has control over what does and doesn't get destroyed.

Even though we know Shay is a good person, and will most likely bury it or something, that doesn't really change the fact that people will come after him.

But the only way to give Connor & co. motivation to come after him would have to be that box ONLY. But I don't think they know of its existence as much as they don't know about Shay.

The only way for all of this to make sense is if Shay pulls a complete š180 and villainously attacks the Homestead or something. :rolleyes:

MakimotoJin
11-27-2014, 12:45 AM
How 'bout a sequel where you play as old Shay walking about with a stick,for 2 hours.BOOM,game of the year.


After what he did to my city it needs to be a Portuguese Assassin to kill Shay, karma.

Blame Achilles,he's the one who sent Shay for a mission without caring about the dangers.

JustPlainQuirky
11-27-2014, 01:29 AM
But.... isn't that like par for the course. I mean being a professional killer has to have some kind of consequences right?

Yes but Shay deserves special treatment because he is Shay :cool:

VestigialLlama4
11-27-2014, 06:10 AM
But.... isn't that like par for the course. I mean being a professional killer has to have some kind of consequences right?

Exactly.

You know I am really surprised that Ubisoft have backtracked from the cool innovations of BLACK FLAG. Namely the blood vials which preserves blood(and DNA) for all time in those cubes, and their new Animus Cloud that can access the memories of dead people, like Desmond and John from IT.

I was hoping they would something cool like playing an Assassin until the moment he/she dies, their blood gets preserved in vials and we are accessing that memory through that. It would add huge amounts of suspense, people can ask okay, are we seeing this memory from DNA extraction/blood vial, will the character we play live/die, when will they do so? It was a real gamechanger which Darby McDevitt introduced and they backed away from it abominably in both ROGUE or UNITY.