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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:46 PM
I must admit, never played CFS2, but according to some people, it had good features. So which good from it would you like to see in FB?

By the way, who of the mods won the "most locked FW threads" award?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close you eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)


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1C Ankanor, Defender Of The Truth

Message Edited on 06/20/0307:52PM by Ankanor

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:46 PM
I must admit, never played CFS2, but according to some people, it had good features. So which good from it would you like to see in FB?

By the way, who of the mods won the "most locked FW threads" award?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close you eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)


http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm

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1C Ankanor, Defender Of The Truth

Message Edited on 06/20/0307:52PM by Ankanor

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:48 PM
If I was a mod. I would win the award../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:51 PM
my best wishes that you do not become one. now if you can, please answer./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close you eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)


http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/Lang.htm

http://home.wanadoo.nl/wana.mail1/Op****/WurgerwhinerLogo.jpg



1C Ankanor, Defender Of The Truth

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:54 PM
surely the SOUND /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

edit: and sliding canopies and gun flashes...............

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Message Edited on 06/20/0308:55PM by KIMURA

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:56 PM
The only thing I would want from CFS2 would be the ability to pull flight data from the game in real-time (current airspeed, attitude and such) so I could buy these: http://www.simkits.com/products.php /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Those would make the coolest toy ever!

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 09:12 PM
sound

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 09:57 PM
Sound, canopies that open, ground stability from landing gears, effective .50 cal on all aircraft, giant world terrain with hundreds of runways to choose from, smooth online gameplay 100 fps + good sync between 56k and broadban.

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 10:13 PM
All the stuff that's already been mentioned, plus some of the objects available in the mission builder. Such as sandbags, trenches, aircraft revetments, even shell craters, which would go a long way to make the scenery in FB look like a battlefield rather than a golf course.

Personally I would also like to have the ability to add third-party content, such as additional aircraft and more accurate terrain. But for a lot of people this is exactly why they don't like CFS-2, and any time you bring it up they get very upset.

Don't get me wrong, though. As many good features as CFS-2 has, and as much as you can do with it, it still isn't in the FB class. For two reasons: one, it basically doesn't work very well - it handles memory far less efficiently than the Il-2/FB engine.

And, two, the AIs are simply impossible. As much as we may complain about the idiotic behavior of the AIs in FB, they're all geniuses compared to the ones in CFS-2. I don't know anything about online play, but offline missions in CFS-2 quickly become boring and irritating because of the hopelessly doofus behavior of the AIs.

It's also got some pretty Godawful bugs, some of them even worse than those in FB. So in saying it's got features I'd like to see in FB, I don't mean to be endorsing or recommending it. I've had a good deal of fun with CFS-2 and expect to have more, but it's really pretty primitive in a lot of ways and not all of them are correctable.

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 10:21 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- ground stability from
- landing gears,

You think grass runways were all smooth and grooved?

You should read German pilot's accounts on having to find bare grass fields and having to use them as airstrips (In Russia ofcourse, during their retreat after the winter of '42)


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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 10:25 PM
With the last IL-2 I'd say enemy AI, but its getting better.

----------------------------------------
Wow, I really look good on your six. Mind if I stay there?

Crabhart

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:21 PM
What from CFS2 U would like to be implemented?


Just the planes.

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:27 PM
I like how the shock absorbers work on landing gear.

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 11:55 PM
StG77_Kondor

show me one little unseeable rut that could send you 250 meters in the air, and im talking about on paved or grass runways the landing gears arent stable in this game

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:32 AM
The time compression.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:43 AM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- Sound, canopies that open, ground stability from
- landing gears, effective .50 cal on all aircraft

Jajaja: Efective? Sure. I remember destroying an armored ship with them (corbete or cruiser or something big). Do you recon that is real effectiveness?

I think I miss the plane set more than anything.

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_falco.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:48 AM
I would like to see the sliding canopy modeled in FB. Also, I would like to see the sound modeled better.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 12:51 AM
The ability to light a fuel vapor trail by shooting a tracer through it.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 01:02 AM
The only thing I would really like to see in FB is the theater and the planes. I'm amazed by the guy who said he wanted the effective .50s from CFS2. I remember shooting down 20 bombers and fighters in one campaign mission, and that was with limited ammo and "full real". Effective, absolutely!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA Landings and take-offs were also horrible. There was never a real sense of flight for me.

All told though, I loved the sim. I love all sims. Haven't played one I hated yet. I just wish we could get the flight model fidelity and awesome graphics of FB in the pacific theater.

Beergator

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 01:10 AM
I liked the Force Feedback in CFS2. To me at least it seemed that you could really get a sense of the airflow over the controls. For example when you reached zero airspeed (going vertical) it was real easy to move the stick around due to the lack of air moving over them. I don't notice it in FB, seems the return-to-center tension is always the same no matter how fast you are going.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 01:14 AM
I can't believe it isn't mentioned somewhere in this thread:
C-A-R-R-I-E-R-S !

blackTIE

Ankanor wrote:
- I must admit, never played CFS2, but according to
- some people, it had good features. So which good
- from it would you like to see in FB?

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 01:16 AM
I agree, the Force Feedback in CFS2 was awesome, the best of all sims I have played.



"The Peacock will be on time, fan his tail."

William Frederick "Bull" Halsey

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 01:45 AM
Beergator wrote:
- The only thing I would really like to see in FB is
- the theater and the planes. I'm amazed by the guy
- who said he wanted the effective .50s from CFS2. I
- remember shooting down 20 bombers and fighters in
- one campaign mission, and that was with limited ammo
- and "full real". Effective, absolutely!!!!!
- HAHAHAHAHAHA


I think the increased effectiveness compared to FB has to be seen in connection with the Japanese planes. It's a known fact that especially the Jap fighters (and especially the zero again) were highly flamable. The amount of bombers you were able to take out might be unrealistic, but I think for the fighters the effect is about correct. In case you know the WWII movie "Fighting Lady" (carrier operations), with lots of guncams F6F vs Zero you know what I mean. Actually I was amazed that CFS2 got this effect very similar to what you could see on those guncams. The Zeros often would get a fire or lose liquids just from flying through a 50cal stream. Or a short tracking shot and the Zero would light up.

BTW, a bit off-topic now, but about CFS2 and 3: I'm always amazed when developers fu*k up a sequel. I don't understand how they can make a sequel worse than the prequal (compare EF2000 with TAW for example, same thing). I remember the time I was thinking about bying CFS3. People were saying it's the "same $hit" like CFS2. Now, I really didn't consider CFS2 to be $hit, so I thought I can get CFS3. But beside the fact that the FMs were really crap compared to CFS2 (which you might explain with the possibility that they just got other programmers or rushed the game out), I wonder why they also changed so much other things: The landscape e.g. in CFS2 looked very good to me, ran smooth, but not so in CFS3 (at least I can't run it at good settings on my 1,8Ghz with Geforce2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), and the smoke (very long, like in FB) and fire from burning planes looked great in CFS2 (I liked how they went down and sometimes have a secondary explosion turning a wing apart, having them ending up in a spiral dive), but in CFS3 it looks ridiculous. Some 4-5 meters smoke"trail" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Also the sound was very good in CFS2, in CFS3 they sound like model planes or lawnmowers. Completely screwed, I was very dissapointed in CFS3 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Regards
heartc









Message Edited on 06/21/0312:48AM by Heart_C

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:21 AM
Heart_C wrote:

- I think the increased effectiveness compared to FB
- has to be seen in connection with the Japanese
- planes. It's a known fact that especially the Jap
- fighters (and especially the zero again) were highly
- flamable. The amount of bombers you were able to
- take out might be unrealistic, but I think for the
- fighters the effect is about correct. In case you
- know the WWII movie "Fighting Lady" (carrier
- operations), with lots of guncams F6F vs Zero you
- know what I mean. Actually I was amazed that CFS2
- got this effect very similar to what you could see
- on those guncams. The Zeros often would get a fire
- or lose liquids just from flying through a 50cal
- stream. Or a short tracking shot and the Zero would
- light up.

While Japanese aircraft were particularly fragile and susceptible to spontaneous combustion, the effect in CFS2 was way beyond bounds. Part of it is attributable to the huge damage balloons around each plane. I could take out three or four bombers in one pass with my wildcat. Fighters seemed just as fragile, but moved a little more. You could always get on the enemy six in one or two turns though. It was great for a poor pilot like me.

I loved CFS2 and spent many hours flying in it, but it is no where near as accurate as FB, especially in terms of damage models and gun effect. I love the .50s in FB. Hit a plane at convergence, and bye bye.

Here is what I want, though some desires are contradictory. The mission editor and resource material of WW2F, the dynamic campaign of F4, the training missions and manual of Longbow2, the graphics, flight models, and damage models of FB, the giant formations of BOB, and the theater, carriers, and planes of CFS2.

Beergator

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:25 AM
FB is infinitely better but if I had choose a few things in addition to what has already been mentioned I would say the ability to start the plane from inside the cockpit, the greater flexibility regarding flaps, and that feature where if you roll your curser over a guage in the cockpit that little popup tells you what the hell your looking at.

Not to mention: theater, carriers and planes. And I don't want it now, man, I want it yesterday!

I know not what course others may choose, but as for me, give me computer games or give me television!

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:27 AM
your amazed at me saying the .50 cals arent effective as they should be? Go shoot some russian wood.

Btw check out this gun camera footage from bud anderson the pilot of OLD crow and this is from 6 .50s not 8.

http://www.cebudanderson.com/budguncamerafilm.wmv

talk to me now about effectiveness

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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:32 AM
Beergator wrote:
-
- While Japanese aircraft were particularly fragile
- and susceptible to spontaneous combustion, the
- effect in CFS2 was way beyond bounds. Part of it is
- attributable to the huge damage balloons around each
- plane.

Yes, I agree the hit bubbles were too big and this was probably the reason why you could do so much with your ammo, while the damage effect itself was ok imho.

About the AI - hm, did you put it on "Ace" settings? I can't remember if you could do that also for the campaigns, but in quick mission builder you could and I thought the Zeros were doing it good what they could, turning tightly. Especially with Icons of and no other aids (I also didn't use padlock - just snapviews) you better had a good SA. At least compared to EAW, I liked the AI in CFS2 very much, I found it more challenging in small engagements. In EAW the AI was almost only defensive, and even the defensive moves were basicly just banking and yanking around, even if the enemy plane had superior turn and might have easily got on your tail. They only were a threat when in huge numbers, while in CFS2 2 planes against you on "full real" settings and Ace AI demanded decent SA. But then again, this was before the time I was flying against real humans online:-).

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 02:48 AM
It looks like the 190 blew up bad from a few shots, the japanese planes were zippos same as the russias wood and gas but they do seem awfully strong in this game.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 03:54 AM
The ability to open the canopy..... I, like that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 03:55 AM
The High Altitude look, One thing I really hate is the 8000 meters and above sky what was the game maker thinking?

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XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 04:51 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
- The ability to light a fuel vapor trail by shooting
- a tracer through it.

you could do that in cfs2? i guess i spend so much time (all the time) playing online that i didnt realize. thats what i found so incredible about il2 when i started. cfs2 was my first combat sim and when playing online you didnt see damage on the other planes. planes never broke apart they just spiraled to the ground. oh and when they got into a spin you saw them skip about. however i do miss some of the sounds, i miss being able to somewhat realistically start the engines. i miss the theater and carrier operations. by far my favorite theater

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XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 05:33 AM
Cherry!


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XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 05:34 AM
Test

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XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 05:35 AM
The damage boxes (not "bubbles", CFS-2 doesn't have that; it has collision bubbles but that's entirely different) are indeed pretty ridiculous on the stock planes, and even worse on some of the freeware replacements.

However, this can be corrected to a considerable degree by reducing the size of the boxes, and creating more of them in order to spread the damage effect out better, and installing the appropriate damage components. You need a program like DP Edit to do this, and it takes some doing to learn how.

The 1% models come with greatly improved damage profiles (no "bubble" effect at all) and you can use the 1% spreadsheets to create DPs for other planes if you have sufficient data. Personally I don't think the 1% system is the whole answer, and eventually developed some mods of my own to improve it and get rid of the infamous no-aileron-authority-because-one-bullet-hit-your-wingtip effect that CFS-2 users learn to hate.

Even so there are some limitations. After experimenting with damage profiles for a number of thirties aircraft (Hawk II, Gladiator, CR 32 and 42 etc.) I came to the conclusion that the CFS-2 engine really does not know what to make of biplanes; it can't understand that an airplane can have more than one set of wings, and it gets confused when you try to tell it otherwise.

But anyway, all this is a very good example of what I meant about having to do a lot of work on CFS-2 before it's much good.

As it happens I enjoy doing that sort of work, so I've had a lot of fun with CFS-2, for all its drawbacks. But for somebody who wants to use the product straight out of the box, I don't recommend it at all.

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 05:36 AM
PBS_DangerMouse wrote:
-
- SkyChimp wrote:
-- The ability to light a fuel vapor trail by shooting
-- a tracer through it.
-
- you could do that in cfs2? i guess i spend so much
- time (all the time) playing online that i didnt
- realize. thats what i found so incredible about il2
- when i started. cfs2 was my first combat sim and
- when playing online you didnt see damage on the
- other planes. planes never broke apart they just
- spiraled to the ground. oh and when they got into a
- spin you saw them skip about. however i do miss
- some of the sounds, i miss being able to somewhat
- realistically start the engines. i miss the theater
- and carrier operations. by far my favorite theater


You could if you got close enough to the leak.

I always thought the visuals when hitting a fuel tank in CFS2 were stunning. Better IMO than in FB.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://pages.prodigy.net/4parks/_uimages/japsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 06:15 AM
How about a feature not supported in either CFS2 or IL2? Using Quick Mission editor, I'd simply like being able to have the mission start at an airbase. I really like take-offs and landings! Ya, I could use the FME, but howsa bout a "quickie"? And as far as CFS2 goes, I'd have to agree about the carriers and the plane sets. I'd love to see how good the P-38 would look and fly in IL2!


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Kunsan AB, Korea

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Kunsan AB, Korea

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Tully__
06-21-2003, 10:57 AM
Triggers in the mission builder.

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XyZspineZyX
06-21-2003, 11:14 AM
THE SLIDING CANOPY's On Almost all Figther planes photos from this era you see them take off and land with the thing open

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XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:27 PM
The Skip Button (X) and the sound of the .50s

THe sound of the .50s in this game are awful as much as i live FB

-Don't feel bad for the pilot you just shot down because your next.

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XyZspineZyX
06-22-2003, 05:45 PM
I didn't like the way I would spend hours online downloading new aircraft for it and FS-98/2000/2002.

Hang on, I spend much more time here than I do playing FB! Stupid forums.

Sliding canopies will be in the next sim. Thus spake the word of Oleg. And the people said, Amen.

Philips CDRW

Posting vacuous messages since 2002