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View Full Version : Why do soldiers attack Arno when he's helping them out?



Pr0metheus 1962
11-20-2014, 05:20 PM
So I just saw a fight between soldiers and one of those radical revolutionary guys (the ones dressed in red). So I decided to help out. I killed the guy the soldiers were fighting, then the soldiers all turned on me.

Surely the game should not make you the soldiers' enemy when you just helped them out.

Dev_Anj
11-20-2014, 05:27 PM
It really annoys me in these games when the guards assume you are an enemy simply because you were fighting off someone, even if you fought their enemy in front of them. This was true in Revelations as well, which was quite a disappointment. Really kills off the feeling of manipulating factions for your behalf.

jetlee2777
11-20-2014, 05:35 PM
Well fact is that the red guards are templars,so basically they always attack you when they spot you as they know who you are,but the blue guards (the french soldiers) they are actually not attacking you at all unless you do something in front of them.

But what I also don´t understand that´s true is that when you´re helping them for example in a fight against the red guards,they suddenly also attack you for no reason so best what you can do is just don´t interfere on it and you stay save or if you want then either you kill the blue guards as well,or just throw a smoke bomb and escape.

cawatrooper9
11-20-2014, 05:49 PM
Well, I guess the police would want to at least talk to you in real life if you murdered someone right in front of them, even if it was to help them out.

jetlee2777
11-20-2014, 06:52 PM
Well, I guess the police would want to at least talk to you in real life if you murdered someone right in front of them, even if it was to help them out.

Lol but they´re not talking to me when I murdered one,they attack me instead.

PedroAntonio2
11-20-2014, 07:00 PM
This doesn't bothers me at all...this happens in GTA too, you can kill a thief who is being chased by the cops, but if you do this the cops will start to shoot you too. I just ignore those random events, the only one I do is the Catch the Thief, the rest I just run away.

darksavior1977
11-20-2014, 07:35 PM
Short answer to the OP, piss poor AI. Ubisoft has really become terrible as of this year, their games are diminished in both design and overall quality and they've really gone south. I hope they can come back, as they used to be the studio responsible for many of my most cherished games. Ultra disappointed.

UncappedWheel82
11-20-2014, 07:42 PM
Arno is essentially a vigilantly, and vigilantly justice is a bad thing. Next time let them fight and walk away...unless you want to kill them too.

cawatrooper9
11-20-2014, 08:16 PM
Lol but they´re not talking to me when I murdered one,they attack me instead.

True, but it is a video game... would you really want to have to go through a lengthy and tedious questioning process every time you killed an NPC?
I think it's generally implied that Arno is resisting arrest when this happens.

king-hailz
11-20-2014, 09:33 PM
yeh its stupid! Overall the AI is pretty bad for the enemies! The truth is i heard someone say that the more you work on the technical side of making amazing AI, it looks dumb and feels too gamey! They need to keep it somple and not to over complicated and it will work better and more natural!

Dev_Anj
11-21-2014, 02:45 AM
Well, I guess the police would want to at least talk to you in real life if you murdered someone right in front of them, even if it was to help them out.

But this takes place in the French Revolution, and in the French Revolution, they'd like to have some help.

Also even if they want to show the guards trying to talk to the Assassin, it could be done better instead of making them your enemies. Like, just have the guard trust go up.

D.I.D.
11-21-2014, 03:05 AM
This is a bit messed up, especially in missions like Bara's Funeral.

You're attacked by red-clothed enemies all the way up the road. Then a blue-uniformed captain congratulates you for protecting the procession successfully. The mission didn't end, I stood around puzzled for a minute, then walked in open space at the Panthéon square. Something triggered a final assault of red guys, and the red guys' alert state caused the same blue soldiers to start fighting me before the reds had even reached me.

It's a problem that they're all "enemies" under certain conditions, and the blues need more definition about what they're doing. In a mission like this one, they should not fight me at all unless I attack them.

There are other missions where this happens. One, near the military field, involves a regiment of blues who need to attack an encampment, but can't begin their assault until someone (you) clears out the cannon first. He thanks you and says he'll wait to see the smoke from the cannon as a signal to begin the fight. The reds are guarding the cannon. However, if you skirt the wall and begin to phantom blade the rooftop red marksmen, the same blue regiment will try to kill you. If you jump the wall, they'll attack you for entering a restricted area. These missions could feel really good if they left you alone for once and you felt like you were on the same side. You could even pick up a trail of angry reds and draw them out to the blues, let combat begin, and then go back into the camp to carry on while your assailants were engaged in their new fight.

jetlee2777
11-21-2014, 04:45 AM
True, but it is a video game... would you really want to have to go through a lengthy and tedious questioning process every time you killed an NPC?
I think it's generally implied that Arno is resisting arrest when this happens.

Lol why should I kill the NPCs?,I´m talking about that when I´m killing the red guards (templars) the blue guards ("police") are attacking me as well and don´t talk to me same when I loot the red guards.

jetlee2777
11-21-2014, 04:49 AM
This is a bit messed up, especially in missions like Bara's Funeral.

You're attacked by red-clothed enemies all the way up the road. Then a blue-uniformed captain congratulates you for protecting the procession successfully. The mission didn't end, I stood around puzzled for a minute, then walked in open space at the Panthéon square. Something triggered a final assault of red guys, and the red guys' alert state caused the same blue soldiers to start fighting me before the reds had even reached me.

It's a problem that they're all "enemies" under certain conditions, and the blues need more definition about what they're doing. In a mission like this one, they should not fight me at all unless I attack them.

There are other missions where this happens. One, near the military field, involves a regiment of blues who need to attack an encampment, but can't begin their assault until someone (you) clears out the cannon first. He thanks you and says he'll wait to see the smoke from the cannon as a signal to begin the fight. The reds are guarding the cannon. However, if you skirt the wall and begin to phantom blade the rooftop red marksmen, the same blue regiment will try to kill you. If you jump the wall, they'll attack you for entering a restricted area. These missions could feel really good if they left you alone for once and you felt like you were on the same side. You could even pick up a trail of angry reds and draw them out to the blues, let combat begin, and then go back into the camp to carry on while your assailants were engaged in their new fight.

Sorry but I don´t understand from,which mission your´re talking now about fact is that the blue guards ("police") will never attack you at all unless you comit something against the law or go to a restricted area,where they are.

Jackdaw951
11-21-2014, 04:52 PM
This annoys me greatly too. The blue guards should be neutral, but they are always hostile toward me if I do anything at all in front of them. What's worst is when I'm already fighting a throng of red guards, and then I get tag-teamed by the others too. I make sure to exterminate them all. But, alas, they don't learn anything. Very suicidal, those blue dudes.

SixKeys
11-21-2014, 04:56 PM
Next time you see the cops chasing down a criminal, pull out your gun and walk into the middle of the fight. Then wonder why they don't appreciate your help.

Megas_Doux
11-21-2014, 05:01 PM
This is just wow.....

They are the law enforcement and you a hooded vigilante guy killing people, I wonder why they go after you.....

Fatal-Feit
11-21-2014, 05:07 PM
I too, have murdered random people on the streets and wondered why the police chase me.

SixKeys
11-21-2014, 05:07 PM
This is just wow.....

They are the law enforcement and you a hooded vigilante guy killing people, I wonder why they go after you.....

BUT BUT BUT, it means the AI is totally stupid and unrealistic, don'cha know? :rolleyes:

Jackdaw951
11-21-2014, 06:17 PM
BUT BUT BUT, it means the AI is totally stupid and unrealistic, don'cha know? :rolleyes:

Yes, yes it is. If real cops were to attack me because I'm defending myself against violent zealots, they would be quite stupid too.

Asperkai
11-21-2014, 07:01 PM
Lol because of that funeral mission I kill the blues in spite. I was being sharp shot at axed and pistol whipped. I took this damage before I even saw the reds because pulse was on cool down. Of course Arno is like wtf and pulls his weapon. So then the blues start in wailing on me.

I don't help them any more and if they so much as turn towards me on mission I will start the fight.
May be mean or twisted but some how they remind me of the crazies or worst the bards. Can't be sneaky with that going on.

jetlee2777
11-21-2014, 07:31 PM
This is just wow.....

They are the law enforcement and you a hooded vigilante guy killing people, I wonder why they go after you.....

Lol it´s like you said because a hooded guy,always look suspect.

jetlee2777
11-21-2014, 07:33 PM
I too, have murdered random people on the streets and wondered why the police chase me.

Lol your´re murdering random people on the streets,and wondering why the police chasing you?

jetlee2777
11-21-2014, 07:35 PM
Lol because of that funeral mission I kill the blues in spite. I was being sharp shot at axed and pistol whipped. I took this damage before I even saw the reds because pulse was on cool down. Of course Arno is like wtf and pulls his weapon. So then the blues start in wailing on me.

I don't help them any more and if they so much as turn towards me on mission I will start the fight.
May be mean or twisted but some how they remind me of the crazies or worst the bards. Can't be sneaky with that going on.

Lol pure blues and yes I´m also not helping them anymore and if you still want then threw a smokebomb after you kill the reds and what do you mean with bards?

SixKeys
11-21-2014, 07:48 PM
Yes, yes it is. If real cops were to attack me because I'm defending myself against violent zealots, they would be quite stupid too.

Do you even real life?

If you're fighting someone on the street, both of you wielding deadly weapons, the cops aren't going to take a look at you and magically realize who the "good guy" is. They're going to pull out their own weapons, arrest both of you and throw you in jail for disturbing the peace.

Asperkai
11-21-2014, 08:22 PM
Lol pure blues and yes I´m also not helping them anymore and if you still want then threw a smokebomb after you kill the reds and what do you mean with bards?

Bards from Ezio's time. At least with the beggars you could throw change on the ground.

I reread what I had typed before and cringe. I clearly do not follow the creed.

Fatal-Feit
11-21-2014, 08:40 PM
Lol your´re murdering random people on the streets,and wondering why the police chasing you?

Yes, I mean, where's the logic in that? I'm killing people in cold blood and yet the cops considers me a threat. Like, WDF?

The AI in this game are stupid.

Asassynn
11-21-2014, 09:19 PM
Ubisoft promised smarter AI, and they barely delivered from what I have seen (haven't played yet) I'm going to side with the OP on this one and say that the AI are dumb for attacking you if I am understanding correctly. Historically in the French Revolution, people were arrested and beheaded if they did not show enough support for the revolution. I can only assume that an armed and very capable inidividual standing by while allies are killed constitutes not expressing support, especially considering that some were beheaded for even implying a neutral view in private conversation in the peak of the Reign of Terror.

Bottom line is, Arno should be attacked if he does not help rather than if he does.

Maybe even some thanks if they were loosing, "Arno Dorian, just in time! See you back at lodge!"

Pr0metheus 1962
11-21-2014, 09:50 PM
I actually would have no problem with both soldiers and the red guys attacking me if the soldiers didn't also attack the red guys. The thing is, it's hard to figure out precisely, because the game doesn't exactly make much effort to delve into the real history of the revolution, but I think those red guys are supposed to be the extremist Hébertist-aligned revolutionaries, and they should (at least after August 1793) have the support of the army, since the Terror was official government policy. Before that time, maybe they should be fighting the army, but then the army shouldn't be fighting me if I join the fight with them against the red guys.

Then there's the issue of the Royalists and various other factions, which the game almost completely ignores (the Royalists don't even get their proper uniforms as far as I recall).

Needless to say, it's a mess. Not that I didn't expect it to be a mess - after all, they took the simplistic way out, just like they did in AC3, by going with the standard mustache twirling bad guys in the form of Robespierre & Co. rather than giving the more nuanced viewpoint that the real history suggests. But I guess I can't complain too much - after all, the AC series has never exactly shown any real complexity, though it often seems like the writers want to, especially when they give the Templars convincing and understandable philosophical viewpoints (which were noticably absent from Unity).

The level of superficiality in Unity is quite nicely shown by how the game demonizes Louis Antoine de Saint-Just - the guy who essentially drafted the French Constitution of 1793 - making him out to be the 18th Century equivalent of the fricken Texas Chainsaw Massacre's "Leatherface". I mean, sure, the guy was a tyrannical ideologue, but this is ludicrous.

Compared to Saint-Just, Robespierre gets off quite lightly, as the game treats him merely as a bad person, rather than a completely insane psychopath. In reality, far from gloating over Danton's impending death (as he does in the game), Robespierre tried his best to delay it. It's just disappointing when the writers of an adult-themed game like this have such contempt for its player base. I mean, I'm not 3 years old - I can handle a little complexity.

D.I.D.
11-21-2014, 11:29 PM
Sorry but I don´t understand from,which mission your´re talking now about fact is that the blue guards ("police") will never attack you at all unless you comit something against the law or go to a restricted area,where they are.

I mentioned two missions. Bara's Funeral is called Bara's Funeral, and it's the mission where you escort Bara's body in Bara's coffin to his Funeral.

The other one's name escapes me, but it's on the extreme west of the map, outside the gates to the military grounds.

In both cases, you are conscripted by the army to work for the soldiers, but nobody remembered to add this context to the soldiers' AI. Yes they do attack you. In Bara's Funeral, they attacked me because the reds had decided they were going to attack me. They were 100 yards away, I hadn't drawn a weapon yet, and the blues decided they'd better kill me. In the other one, they attacked me for doing exactly what their commanding officer had hired me to do, and attacked me again when I ran away and hopped onto the wall of the restricted area which they wanted to invade and did not control yet. The game does not understand territory by faction - it only understands that areas are restricted or they are not. If you trespass where they can see you, they don't care if that area is red or blue. It's the game's property, and the game tries to kill you with its bots.

Megas_Doux
11-21-2014, 11:38 PM
WORK OF FICTION BASED ON HISTORICAL STUFF, BASED.........


No AC has ever been 100 historically faithful. Garnier de Naplouse was "in real life" almost a saint, yet in AC I he is portrayed as a medieval DR frankenstein, the templars of AC II and ACB resemble Dudley do right material instead of an "adult themed game". And that is why in regards of one dimensional driven black / white lighhearted story so far, the top spot belongs to either AC II or ACB.

Back on topic, this complaint does not make any sense, AT ALL!!!!!!

You are a hooded viligante guy taking justice in your OWN hands, disregarding any true authority whatsoever, of course you will be attacked...

Pr0metheus 1962
11-22-2014, 12:48 AM
The other one's name escapes me, but it's on the extreme west of the map, outside the gates to the military grounds.

Yeah, I remember that one - I don't recall the name either. That one is fricken insane. They make it so that it's very difficult NOT to disturb the soldiers, and there are tons of them. At one point, I probably had 30 soldiers (who were supposed to be on my side) trying to kill me at the same time.

MakimotoJin
11-22-2014, 02:02 AM
Same thing with Rogue.British soldiers are attacking some gang members,I kill a few,the British are fighting against me for some reason.