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View Full Version : The combat is really killing all of my enjoyment...



THE_JOKE_KING33
11-20-2014, 12:01 AM
Between the enemies preference for using guns (and the subsequent lack of the human shield mechanic), the terrible camera, and the general clunky feeling of it all my enjoyment is really waning (the meh story also contributed to it). I've tried playing stealthy as well but the lack of the whistle ability and the wonky cover mechanic always makes it feel like an absolute crap-shoot (not to mention that if I do get seen and run away I just get pelted with bullets, the smoke bomb just delays the pelting). I just hope this combat doesn't come to any further games otherwise I think it's time I hang this series up for a while.

D.I.D.
11-20-2014, 12:13 AM
You've got to keep moving. If you're fighting a group, keep splitting your attacks between them. Don't let yourself be in the middle of a pack for very long - dodge roll out, and run or use the distance to pull them into a line so they can be fought individually. Dodge will also save you from getting shot a lot of the time, and help you to approach the soldiers taking aim. If you're in an area where you're getting pelted with bullets, you're not meant to be fighting in that spot. You've got to find and pick off the enemies at the edge who are getting all that time to hit you (probably on roofs).

When running away from trouble, you've got to zig-zag, and hopping a zig-zagging diagonal course up a wall is better than staying on one line upwards.

Learn the enemy types as well. They have fixed approaches to how many times they'll launch attacks you need to parry, whether they're vulnerable to heavy swings, if they've got unparryable attacks that need to be dodged (although increasing your parry stats can allow you to block some of those too).

It could do with establishing a rhythm, really. Maybe that will come later. For now, there's a lot of time built into the combat because it's strict about you pressing the correct button, and if you've already pressed an attack and then try to switch to a parry too late, it'll punish you for that. It mostly wants one move, and a decisive one. As a result, it's got that space to encourage you to wait and react, and if you panic at all or get ahead of the action you'll probably get hurt.

Megas_Doux
11-20-2014, 12:15 AM
In my case, I like the fact combat is hard and it takes more time to master than previous installments. During Ezioīs trilogy, mostly Brotherhood, I could literally kill dozens of guards at the same time with my eyes closed.

And in AC III / AC IV it was the same thing, with the exception there are a couple of harder archetypes. In Unity, for the first the ever in the franchise, it takes some degree of skill and/or planning to accomplish something.

guardian_titan
11-20-2014, 01:51 AM
While some players enjoy harder combat and the challenge that comes with it, there are players who don't want that. I was fine with the AC3/AC4 combat and finally felt like by the time I played through AC1 to AC3 that I had it down. Changing up the play style that players have grown accustomed to and make it harder alienates a fair number of players. I was not one of the ones who wanted harder combat. The combat before Unity was just at my level. It wasn't too hard nor was it too easy, yet now Unity's combat is hard and requires me to basically relearn how to fight again? Frankly, I quit. There are so many things with this game that have driven me to not buy it. I'd rather spend my money on other games. That just tells me that Ubisoft thinks I'm not good enough to play their game. If I have to find a trainer to play and enjoy a game, there's something wrong there. Not all players have perfect hand-eye coordination. Not all players can use both hands. Not all players have quick reflexes. Not all players can think quickly in a situation.

In the future, perhaps Ubisoft should just use difficulty settings to appease both those that preferred the "easy" combat (which wasn't easy for me) to nightmarish combat. They have the Animus/Helix system so there really is no excuse as to why they can't do a difficulty setting.

nachdenki
11-20-2014, 02:28 AM
I like the fact that combat became harder - in prevous games you were really tempted to just "go beserk" because it was easier to kill the guards than to sneak by. I do agree that the combat feels kind of clunky though, in particular because of the heavy gunuse of enemies and because Arno reaaally takes his time to respond to commands (press R1 to throw a bomb. wait. wait. animation starts. bomb is thrown). While this might make sense, it makes me feel like I really have no control over Arno during combat.

But I think the real problem here is that the new stealth system kind of doesn't really work - as you said, the absence of a whistle function makes all the stealth parts really strange, because you are completely passive and wait for one of the guards to be on his own. There is no real way to actively lure guards into a trap - at least I haven't found it yet. This means that if there are more than two guards in a room, you can't really get by without being detected. Also, I don't really see why the cover mechanic was put in there - there is no real difference between silent movement and cover as I see it, and I immediately get this strange feeling of "playing a videogame", because the cover mechanic is so obviously a game mechanic (Press X, stay undetected). Besides that, it doesn't work most of the time, but I think this will be patched soon. I really hope the whole stealth part will be rethought.

ColdBloodedVet
11-20-2014, 03:23 PM
As far as the whistle goes, you have to replace it with the firecrackers. That's your chance to lure somebody but this tactic has some unpredictable consequences sometimes. Sometimes you lure everybody which is pointless because you could have just run out guns blazing. Other times it lures nobody. It's a bit broken but when it works it does a good job

cawatrooper9
11-20-2014, 03:35 PM
Invest in a weapon that costs at least 25,000 F. You'll be amazed at how much easier the game gets.

MnemonicSyntax
11-20-2014, 04:27 PM
Personally, I use firecrackers as a distraction instead of a lure. I throw the firecrackers facing away from my intended location and as far as I can as well. That usually works.

Dev_Anj
11-20-2014, 04:34 PM
While some players enjoy harder combat and the challenge that comes with it, there are players who don't want that. I was fine with the AC3/AC4 combat and finally felt like by the time I played through AC1 to AC3 that I had it down. Changing up the play style that players have grown accustomed to and make it harder alienates a fair number of players. I was not one of the ones who wanted harder combat. The combat before Unity was just at my level. It wasn't too hard nor was it too easy, yet now Unity's combat is hard and requires me to basically relearn how to fight again? Frankly, I quit. There are so many things with this game that have driven me to not buy it. I'd rather spend my money on other games. That just tells me that Ubisoft thinks I'm not good enough to play their game. If I have to find a trainer to play and enjoy a game, there's something wrong there. Not all players have perfect hand-eye coordination. Not all players can use both hands. Not all players have quick reflexes. Not all players can think quickly in a situation.

In the future, perhaps Ubisoft should just use difficulty settings to appease both those that preferred the "easy" combat (which wasn't easy for me) to nightmarish combat. They have the Animus/Helix system so there really is no excuse as to why they can't do a difficulty setting.

The strange thing is that many people have been telling that the combat isn't very hard, but the controls are a bit sluggish.

What other problems you found in Unity?

jetlee2777
11-20-2014, 05:46 PM
I like the fact that combat became harder - in prevous games you were really tempted to just "go beserk" because it was easier to kill the guards than to sneak by. I do agree that the combat feels kind of clunky though, in particular because of the heavy gunuse of enemies and because Arno reaaally takes his time to respond to commands (press R1 to throw a bomb. wait. wait. animation starts. bomb is thrown). While this might make sense, it makes me feel like I really have no control over Arno during combat.

But I think the real problem here is that the new stealth system kind of doesn't really work - as you said, the absence of a whistle function makes all the stealth parts really strange, because you are completely passive and wait for one of the guards to be on his own. There is no real way to actively lure guards into a trap - at least I haven't found it yet. This means that if there are more than two guards in a room, you can't really get by without being detected. Also, I don't really see why the cover mechanic was put in there - there is no real difference between silent movement and cover as I see it, and I immediately get this strange feeling of "playing a videogame", because the cover mechanic is so obviously a game mechanic (Press X, stay undetected). Besides that, it doesn't work most of the time, but I think this will be patched soon. I really hope the whole stealth part will be rethought.

Yes I can only agree what ColdBloodedVet and MnemonicSyntax,where saying use the firecrackers for to lure them as when it works you can kill the guards right away and also use the phantom blade for silent kills that can help too,but what I only donīt get is that sometimes eventhough you have killed one with your phantom blade another guard can still detect you.

UncappedWheel82
11-20-2014, 06:45 PM
Yes I can only agree what ColdBloodedVet and MnemonicSyntax,where saying use the firecrackers for to lure them as when it works you can kill the guards right away and also use the phantom blade for silent kills that can help too,but what I only donīt get is that sometimes eventhough you have killed one with your phantom blade another guard can still detect you.

From what I can tell it really depends on how far you are from the other guard. If you can throw the lure far enough to get both of the guards to turn and then you approach crouched with a silent kill, you should still be able to creep up on the other guy. If they are close for a double kill though, then setting that up is always best

UncappedWheel82
11-20-2014, 06:58 PM
While some players enjoy harder combat and the challenge that comes with it, there are players who don't want that. I was fine with the AC3/AC4 combat and finally felt like by the time I played through AC1 to AC3 that I had it down. Changing up the play style that players have grown accustomed to and make it harder alienates a fair number of players. I was not one of the ones who wanted harder combat. The combat before Unity was just at my level. It wasn't too hard nor was it too easy, yet now Unity's combat is hard and requires me to basically relearn how to fight again? Frankly, I quit. There are so many things with this game that have driven me to not buy it. I'd rather spend my money on other games. That just tells me that Ubisoft thinks I'm not good enough to play their game. If I have to find a trainer to play and enjoy a game, there's something wrong there. Not all players have perfect hand-eye coordination. Not all players can use both hands. Not all players have quick reflexes. Not all players can think quickly in a situation.

In the future, perhaps Ubisoft should just use difficulty settings to appease both those that preferred the "easy" combat (which wasn't easy for me) to nightmarish combat. They have the Animus/Helix system so there really is no excuse as to why they can't do a difficulty setting.

I honestly think the reason they made the game more challenging was because so many people were complaining about the nature of combat in the previous games.

In AC1 the combat was tough, but it was more because it was pretty slow and a little clunky.

In AC2 (the series really) they refined it a bunch but it became pretty complex by the 3rd iteration, and though I don't think it need to be overhauled like it was in AC3, I guess they thought they needed to go in a different direction.

In AC3 the focus was making the combat flow smoother on top of making it a little more challenging (at least that is what I deduce), that is why the combat was a little faster, chain kills easier, and the body shield mechanic was added to just have more of a flow to gun combat. In the end though I think AC3's combat was easy mode just because of how you could chain kills indefinitely and just clear whole street of people. Black Flag was the same as AC3 even though they reduced a ton of options in that game from AC3 proper, and though I haven't played AC Rouge yet, I hear it is just essentially ACBF re-skinned.

Overall I liked ACR's combat the best...up until ACU.

In ACU, from what I can tell, they made the combat more like it was in AC2 (ACR really), but kept the smoothness of AC3. Now the enemies don't take turns nearly as much, the enemies without guns don't just back off like they used to when another enemy has lined up a shot or has thrown a grenade, and at the same time they took away the auto regen mechanic and a few other things that just made combat really fast and honestly too easy.

At the end of the day I understand what you are saying about not everybody being the "best" at hand eye coordination and all the other stuff you mentioned, but the ACU team isn't asking you to do anything more than most other games out there. ACU on the whole isn't really that different than the other AC games, it just has a slightly different focus than the AC3 games when it comes to combat.

Once you level up a bit (at least if you level up to be like the other assassins were in the past games), you should be right at home.

topeira1980
11-20-2014, 06:59 PM
im definitely one of those ppl who really enjoy the new combat.
i agree that its sometimes hard to handle an enemy who's aiming at you, especially because you cant roll\dodge whenever you want to. if you are in the middle of an attack than you cant cancel it to roll and i think this shouldnt be the case. just like you can cancel a finisher or an attack and turn it into a parry than so should you be able to turn an attack into a roll whenever you want, especially if an enemy is aiming at you.
HOWEVER, there is something to take notice in combat - button mashing is a bad idea. every time you attack needs to have a purpose if there are gun wielding enemies. if there are too many enemies and some are using pistols than try not to get ingaged in long movements like power attacks or finishers. leave those staggering enemies (with 0 health) alone or do a "staggering strike" at them (which will kick them. its a much faster way to make those staggering AI drop).
Also use smoke and RUN AWAY when you are outnumbered. dont be tempted to use smoke to kill a single enemy. it's usually not worth it. smoke and run to hide. make the AI look for you.

i also found that if you manage to attack to cover after a fight than often the AI will run after you and once they get close to the corner you can do a stealth kill to kill them and if a few run in a row than you can stealth kill more than one. sadly, as the OP said, attacking to cover doesnt work ALL the time. however just crouching near a corner is usually just as good.

This new combat system utilizes smarter combat AI than can actually react and surprise you. i love it. but because of that and that health doesnt regenerate than combat is harder. FINALLY there is a reason to use smoke and flash bombs. finally you cant just charge in. fighting 2 or 3 level 4 or 5 guys is so much fun, IMO. the seekers (with the tall hat) are so much fun.

and like UncappedWheel82 said - level up. the top tier weapons just do more damage, allowing you to dispatch enemies faster. and if combat is your weakness than get more health upgrades and armor potection, and buy belts that allow more health.

darksavior1977
11-20-2014, 07:53 PM
100% agree, and you said it much more politely than I feel inclined to. Really sore at Ubisoft for making this game like this. Ruined one of my favorite series. Hopefully they can fix this.