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mike_espo
02-08-2004, 12:15 PM
I just started playing IL2 after a few month layoff. I flew the 109g-6 online yesterday. I think the new 1.22 FM is great. The climb rate has definately improved. I can't turn too well but thats historical and OK. I don't overheat the engine at all leaving the radiator in auto mode. I am not sure if this is historical. I have altered tactics and now stay at 5km or so and dive down on unsuspecting russians and then zoom up, not trying to dogfight anymore. I have a few kills and am not getting killed. Nice.

mike_espo
02-08-2004, 12:15 PM
I just started playing IL2 after a few month layoff. I flew the 109g-6 online yesterday. I think the new 1.22 FM is great. The climb rate has definately improved. I can't turn too well but thats historical and OK. I don't overheat the engine at all leaving the radiator in auto mode. I am not sure if this is historical. I have altered tactics and now stay at 5km or so and dive down on unsuspecting russians and then zoom up, not trying to dogfight anymore. I have a few kills and am not getting killed. Nice.

LeadSpitter_
02-08-2004, 12:23 PM
g6 and g2 are outturning just about every aircraft in the game even with gunpods i seem to be out turning the yaks and las on a dialy basis and great vvs players

the ki84 p11 i153 and i16 are the only planes that can out turn them in turn fighting.

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mike_espo
02-08-2004, 12:29 PM
Hmmm. Thats disapointing. I thought for once, we had a realistic FM for the 109. I only thought it did not overheat much, which seems unrealistic.

Freiberg1
02-08-2004, 12:30 PM
posted 08-02-04 11:23
"g6 and g2 are outturning just about every aircraft in the game even with gunpods i seem to be out turning the yaks and las on a dialy basis and great vvs players "

Utterly Bullsh**t! Turn inside an AC is not the same as out-turning it.

blabla0001
02-08-2004, 12:38 PM
Seems Freiberg1 is a bit scared that it will get Oleg's attention and that it may be fixed in the future.

LeadSpitter_
02-08-2004, 12:38 PM
make a new name freilburg those of us who fly alot know they are turning inside most aircraft but you wont hear that from the luft people cause they are happy now

Unlike many I enjoy flying all aircraft and usually pick the worst performing a/c in the historical planeset, I have been flying vvs becuase it seems like no challenge at all flying the g2 and g6 same with he k4 in manual nothing can stay with you.

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crazyivan1970
02-08-2004, 12:45 PM
There are different definition of outturning it. G2 probably the most agile out of all 109s, but i can assure you, that even that plane is not capable out outturning Yak. La5/7 maybe, but not the Yak1b or Yak3. Unless pilot is total n00b. When comparing planes it is always a good idea to tak skills of pilots under consideration. Otherwise it is not valid statement http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

robban75
02-08-2004, 12:48 PM
The Bf 109G-2 in FB handily outclimbs the La-7, and the La-7 itself is more than 1.5 minutes too fast to 5000 meters. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

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Freiberg1
02-08-2004, 12:50 PM
Screw Oleg. He wont fix a damn thing on this sim amymore. And again, turning INSIDE an nmy AC, it's all about timing and the right speed.
Inna 109 you have about 90 until max 180 degrees. Then u have to get lose and go high yo-yo. But outturning Yaks and La's? You must be on pills or something else...

blabla0001
02-08-2004, 12:51 PM
On top of that, the zoom climb of a G2 is truly aswome as well, after a B & Z attack I zoom climb around 600 to sometimes 900 meters higher then from where I started.

mike_espo
02-08-2004, 12:55 PM
Is the FB g-2 more nimble that the f-2 and f-4?

crazyivan1970
02-08-2004, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freiberg1:
Screw Oleg. He wont fix a damn thing on this sim amymore. And again, turning INSIDE an nmy AC, it's all about timing and the right speed.
Inna 109 you have about 90 until max 180 degrees. Then u have to get lose and go high yo-yo. But outturning Yaks and La's? You must be on pills or something else...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe screw you for being a such a spoiled brat? How`s that sound?

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Freiberg1
02-08-2004, 12:59 PM
"Maybe screw you for being a such a spoiled brat? How`s that sound?

V!
Regards,



VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST"

Screw u too!

crazyivan1970
02-08-2004, 01:02 PM
I don`t get you guys, i think you already lost a track of what you want... 109s were underpeforming for fist 2 years... now after going along with all b*tcing and whining changes were made... and still no good. WTF do you all want? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif You want it to fly like crap? Be my guest, place your oder.

I am not really sure what are you observations are based on.. ehh well, what do i know.

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

crazyivan1970
02-08-2004, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freiberg1:
"Maybe screw you for being a such a spoiled brat? How`s that sound?

V!
Regards,



VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST"

Screw u too!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Working on your ban sentence...be my guest http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

x__CRASH__x
02-08-2004, 01:09 PM
I am certainly happy the 109 performs better. But turning inside Yaks and La's? I think not. If it happened it was because of a superior manuever from the pilot performing a yo yo or comming in from the top. But if the fight digresses to a top-to-top turn fight, the Yaks and La's can't be beat.

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mike_espo
02-08-2004, 01:11 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
I am certainly happy the 109 performs better. But turning inside Yaks and La's? I think not. If it happened it was because of a superior manuever from the pilot performing a yo yo or comming in from the top. But if the fight digresses to a top-to-top turn fight, the Yaks and La's can't be beat.

Thanks. I thought this was the case.

blabla0001
02-08-2004, 01:12 PM
They don't have to turn that good anyway, with a climb rate like that who needs a good turn rate?

Red_Storm
02-08-2004, 01:18 PM
 only fly Luftwaffe in this sim, but I will never fly the Bf-109. I fly FW-190D-9's exclusively. The Bf-109 just doesn't take as much skill to fly and in my opninion the FW-190D-9 is one of the most difficult planes to fly in game. The P-47 comes in a close second. I just love the challenge I guess.

p1ngu666
02-08-2004, 01:25 PM
id say takes more skill to kill in a 109 now.
concrete elivater and all
ive found 109 cant turn, but fiddle with trim and...

VW-IceFire
02-08-2004, 01:27 PM
I managed to stay in a tight turn with a Yak (I think it was a 3) today in an online server on a G-14 which I was kind of surprised to do...except for a couple of things.

I went to combat flaps, maxed the engine power (including MW50 - which was set at 0% power) and kept a very tight grip on the controls to make sure I didn't go riding over the edge. Pretty sure he wasn't using combat flaps and Yak-3's overheat pretty quickly but I'm certain he could sustain it longer than I...I just managed to throw a 108 blast into his wing which finished him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I suspect that the G-2 can outturn most opponents but thats nothing new. The G-6 I don't think it could and the G-14 probably is a bit better than the G-6 (on the account of power). Anyone in a Yak or a La should be able to sustain a turn significantly longer than most of the 109 family. They may not have an initial advantage but the gap should widen.

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Stalker58
02-08-2004, 02:07 PM
G14 with MW50 is beast - 1800 hp, Yak is little sport car, 1240 HP....

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

KIMURA
02-08-2004, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
make a new name freilburg those of us who fly alot know they are turning inside most aircraft but you wont hear that from the luft people cause they are happy now

Unlike many I enjoy flying all aircraft and usually pick the worst performing a/c in the historical planeset, I have been flying vvs becuase it seems like no challenge at all flying the g2 and g6 same with he k4 in manual nothing can stay with you.

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If I fly LA-5's and Yak-1b I feel that I can go inside the turning radius of any 109G-model, except @ higher speeds.:|

Zentaurus
02-08-2004, 02:30 PM
Leadspitter doesnt know what he is talking about, 109s with gunpods outturning Yaks and Las ?? Hoho! This is plain stupid.

With a G2 you can have quite a good sustained turn now (which is also true according to my history books) but i wouldnt turn against a Yak3 if i hadnt a big energy advantage to change into angles....
With a La7 i kill all those nice 109s easy...
Not to mention Ki84...

I like 109s much and they are pretty good alround planes now, but not "œber" in any way except climb which is correct...and i still wouldnt try to climb awqay from a La7 out of a DF situation...guns are faster then climb...

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Achilles97
02-08-2004, 02:53 PM
I fly a 109 G10. I can never hang with Yaks in a turn, they always turn inside me. I only have a chance if we are less than 220kph.

BUT, I never use combat flaps. Should I? Everytime I try I end up going into a spin. Any tips?

Is the 109g10 a good choice? The other day I was online with a friend (Yak3) and I couldn't catch him in a slight climb at 1000m. I was shocked.

Thanks!

Charos
02-08-2004, 03:16 PM
Not that I would have the Faintest idea what a REAL BF109 Flies like but to me after 1.22FB patch the 109 seems IMHO better than it has EVER Been to the Point now where I am Rather Happy with it.

The BF109 is the Only Plane I fly in IL2FB, the Only thing which has got me Wondering is the Ammo loadout.
From what I understand Oleg Chose a Standard loadout for the Cannon shells mixing 50/50 AP and HE Shells. I am wondering how this affects the hitting Power of all NON MK108 BF109's. Apparently this loadout was chosen as the AP Rounds are for targets like the IL2.
I wonder for Pilots like Hartmann who could Consistantly take on IL2's by attacking weak spots such as the Oil cooler - would he have used such a mixture of Ammo or gone for 100% HE Rounds?.
Did the Ground Crew or pilots have any say in the Ammo loadout or did they just take what was served up to them from the Supplies at hand?
Since 1.22 I find the MK108 to be MORE Leathal than Ever TO ME it seems the Fire rate has been somewhat Increased and now the MK108 is just Plain Lthal.
Other than the Cannon Loadout Musings I am now VERY happy with the BF109 as it stands in 1.22.

TX-Bomblast
02-08-2004, 03:20 PM
The way I see it, is if the VVS planes are flown at low to mediun altittudes by good pilots the 109's have no chance. I know cause I fly the K4 and the G14 some times the G2. All it takes is one good Russkie pilot and I have my hands full. I have never been able to turn inside a Yak3 unless he's at stall speed. Otherwise, skill and luck are the only way to bring them down.
I miss the old IL2 days when you could see a Yak or La try to turn at low speeds and watch the inside wing lose lift and drop. Those were the days.......

TX-Bomblast
Red3

Osirisx9
02-08-2004, 03:42 PM
I bet I can outturn that La-7 or Yak in My Zero. But I never was able to do it in the G-6. The G-14 seems like a pretty well rounded aircraft though. It does allot of things well.

Osiris_X9

EldOVed
02-08-2004, 04:10 PM
I agree with Osirisx9, the Zero is the only axis plane I can fly and feel on almost evean terms with the La7 and Yak3. It may be a little overmodled but what else can you go down low and turn and grind with?

kyrule2
02-08-2004, 04:45 PM
Just my thoughts;

-G-2 may need to be toned down a little, maybe in turn and definitely in climb. Seems G-2 is more nimble than F-2 & F-4, I don't think that is correct. Just my opinion.

-G-14 is definitely sweet, I can't believe how much better it turns than G-10 and K-4. I still prefer G-10 though. Better performance than G-14 and better handling than K-4. If I hold performance advantage over other planes in set (or if it is only Western front planes)then I'll go G-14 many times.

-It takes a real a**hole to tick off CrazyIvan, one of the best guys on the forum. And if the shoe fits....


I may be wrong on all of this (except my last point), but these are just my impressions.

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Kwiatos
02-08-2004, 05:14 PM
I think that Bf G-K(expecially G-2) turn too good compare it to Bf F. As i know Bf F was the best turning type of bf's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but not in FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I wish Oleg fix these but i have no hope

DONB3397
02-08-2004, 05:31 PM
Took a couple of months away from the G-2 until Hammerd put out Rall's JG 52 skin last week. I put it on, loaded a series of old offline missions vs. La-5s and Il-2s near Anapa (Kuban map) and took off.

I'm not sure whether the 1.22 FM is better, or there has been some improvement in my understanding, but the a/c accelerated like a slingshot dragster. Fast, steep climb over the incoming La-5s and Il-2s. Then got at it. No, it won't turn inside an La-5, especially if you've got up a head of steam, but it'll zoom or extend to get you out of trouble.

To me, the G-2 and G-6 both seem a little more friendly to the pilot and lethal to your targets since 1.22. Haven't tried them online yet.

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It's the only thing!
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S77th-brooks
02-08-2004, 09:52 PM
heres a nice read http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://hostingprod.com/@296thiap.com/Tips.html

WUAF_Badsight
02-08-2004, 10:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kyrule2:
-It takes a real a**hole to tick off CrazyIvan, one of the best guys on the forum. And if the shoe fits....


I may be wrong on all of this (except my last point), but these are just my impressions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


no that last point was spot on , as for the rest ... yea true that too

US_8th_Dosiere
02-08-2004, 10:28 PM
Well, for the climb rates being a little off at least know that this is the case with almost all of the planes in FB. The G-2(probably all of the 109s) climbs faster than it should. But then so does the La so it doesn't really matter.

As for the 109Gs, they have indeed gotten better at dogfighting with about every patch. The only problem I have with it is that the F-4 should be the better dogfighter between them, and from what everyone keeps saying, this is not true.

What I do know is that if you took two pilots of the exact same skill level and put one in a G2 and the other in a Yak-3, the Yak would certainly be able to "out-turn" the G2. What I have noticed online is that the 109 pilots tend to use things like flaps and boost more often than most Yak or La-7 pilots do. The 109 doesnt heat up as fast as the Yak so it is possible for a good 109 pilot to outmaneuver a Yak-3.

Pepole seem to have gotten it in their minds that the Yak-3 or La-7 are Uber planes capable of anything they want and able to out-turn anything, no matter the situation. Certainly not the case; but even if every flight model in this game was absolutely spot on you would still have people compaining about something. It really is all about the pilot and what advantages each side has and how well they use them, especially online.

robban75
02-08-2004, 11:41 PM
Climbrates and rollrates seems to be off the most. For basically all planes. This is why the Fw 190 still suffers.
The climbrate for the A-5 is somewhat too low, while the G-2 and russian planes in general are very much overmodelled.
Take the A-9 for example. It hardly wont accelerate, it lacks at least 1200ft/min in climbrate. The D-9 accelerates much too slowly aswell as its acceleration is about the same as the A-5's. Yet the D-9 is the most competetive, as its climbrate is excellent. But then again the La-7 outclimbs it from 5000m to 8000m! And the G-2 outclimbs the La-7. So the plane that suffers the most is no doubt the Fw 190A series. I sure hope Oleg have seen some of the climbtests I've done and that he will some take action. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The rollrates for all planes(except bubbletop P-47) is very much off, The 109's, Yak's, P-51, P-39, P-40, and the La's all roll close to 180deg/sec.

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BfHeFwMe
02-08-2004, 11:57 PM
No 109 can possibly out turn any 'correctly' flown La series aircraft, only if the La pilot is stupid and doesn't lower his prop pitch and throttle. Do that and you can lower the speed enough to stay well inside. Turn isn't the problem, dumping speed is.

You can't have it both ways, 109's have always dumped speed fast, it's not their problem, it's yours. The La's are now a *&^*$# to slow down. Guess we sould fix them a bit too, if you really expect to turn with firewalled throttles. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

As for Yaks, why fly stupid. A 109 pulls hard turns on me and I'm taking that slick clean Yak verticle for advantage. Yaks are excellent in the verticle now. They play the 109's own game superb.

kyrule2
02-09-2004, 01:29 AM
"Climbrates and rollrates seems to be off the most. For basically all planes. This is why the Fw 190 still suffers.
The climbrate for the A-5 is somewhat too low, while the G-2 and russian planes in general are very much overmodelled.
Take the A-9 for example. It hardly wont accelerate, it lacks at least 1200ft/min in climbrate. The D-9 accelerates much too slowly aswell as its acceleration is about the same as the A-5's. Yet the D-9 is the most competetive, as its climbrate is excellent. But then again the La-7 outclimbs it from 5000m to 8000m! And the G-2 outclimbs the La-7. So the plane that suffers the most is no doubt the Fw 190A series. I sure hope Oleg have seen some of the climbtests I've done and that he will some take action."


Another great post by Robban. Like he said, you can't say that because the La's climb is too high that it is ok for the 109's to be high also. Then other planes suffer. About the 190's, they were starting to get good until 1.21 where they seem to have taken a hit. Still, I don't want the 190 improved as much as I want other planes brought more in line with reality (mainly where climb rates and roll-rates are concerned {190's roll should be lower at very high speeds also}). If this doesn't happen they might as well just bump up the 190's climb rate significantly and have all planes overmodelled. Turn times really need to be looked at also along with energy bleed and overheat times. In short, there is alot of work to do but I fear that time is running out.

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[This message was edited by kyrule2 on Mon February 09 2004 at 12:43 AM.]

[This message was edited by kyrule2 on Mon February 09 2004 at 12:52 AM.]

EldOVed
02-09-2004, 01:30 AM
How come my gun sight gets shot to hell in the 109 like, 50 to 1 vs all other planes?

blabla0001
02-09-2004, 02:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S77th-brooks:
heres a nice read http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://hostingprod.com/@296thiap.com/Tips.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMAO, this info comes from the IL2 Compare program and is not based on true facts, it's how things are now in IL2 FB.

Skalgrim
02-09-2004, 03:38 AM
g2 climb 5000m 4,1min with 1300ps without wep(finns and germans test)

with wep 1475ps sealvel (13,5% more power) are 3,6 min possible

keep in the mind,

at 2000m has g2 engine db605a 1550ps and
4000m always still same power like sealevel

that make she very good 4000-5000m climber

g2 was from the russia as the "best of her breed" count.

sealevel turn la-5fn or la-7 better, therefore turn g2 3000m better

[This message was edited by Skalgrim on Mon February 09 2004 at 05:35 AM.]

Lunix
02-09-2004, 09:12 AM
Yeah they are some pretty sweet rides. After playing a couple of '42 maps I felt embarassed flying a G2. Up against LaGG3-41's and La-5's the poor buggers did not have a chance. If it was not for the Yak1B in '42 then the jig would be up.

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LilHorse
02-09-2004, 10:20 AM
Seems to me that the only people whining about the 109s imroved performance are the VVS flyers. Except that instead of simply saying that they think they are overmodelled they say things like: "Oh, they're total noob planes now. I wouldn't be caught dead flying one. How embarassing." What nonsense. Just because the La-5/7 and Yak-3 are somewhat less uber by comparison now they think "I'm flying the underdog plane now." LOL!

Well, sorry, but the 109 has not been amped up that much. The G-2 has always been a rocket in the climb and in the zoom climb in every single iteration of this game. Nothing new. But able to outturn La's and Yaks? Puleeeeese! Ridiculous. 'Cause these guys get shot down a little more by 109s they think the game is ruined. Well, maybe it is. For them.

kyrule2
02-09-2004, 03:32 PM
Lunix, the funny thing is that from what I have read the Yak-1B should be in the 1943 planeset (first test flight in June 1941 but did not enter service until early 1943).

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