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View Full Version : Stealth is Frustrating For the Wrong Reasons (Unity)



Shahkulu101
11-19-2014, 02:24 AM
The stealth in this game has me pulling my hair out. Moving from cover to cover is essential (rightly so it's a stealth game), but doing so is so fidgety and clunky. First of all you have to press a button to get into cover, instead of just sticking to it naturally. To get out of cover you have to unstick yourself, and doing so leaves you exposed unless you are holding in L2 - seems easy enough but when you are quickly moving from one to the next all those button holds and presses have your head spinning. All of this isn't helped by the fact moving Arno in any direction is EXTREMELY imprecise, they really should have adopted Splinter Cell's snap to cover mechanic. Oh and climbing into windows - ARGHHHH!

Maybe I'm just being a noob, but this is the worst crouch and cover system I've ever came across in a video game. At least for me - it's severely hampering my enjoyment of the game. I'm only on SEQ 5 mission 2 so there's still time to get the hang of it, but right now frustration is the only thing I associate with Unity's stealth. Enjoying the new combat system though, it's tough and thrilling. And Paris itself, magnifique!

EDIT: Oh I know this is a gameplay discussion but just to be on the cautious side; spoil anything and I will find you...

pacmanate
11-19-2014, 02:31 AM
You can toggle crouch two ways. Holding it down puts you in crouch until you release. Pressing it puts you into crouch until you press it again.

Agree with the cover system though. Its annoying how you cant move around cover. I think it needs a Splinter Cell inclusion of having that little arrow to point around where you want to run and crouch next.

Shahkulu101
11-19-2014, 02:37 AM
You can toggle crouch two ways. Holding it down puts you in crouch until you release. Pressing it puts you into crouch until you press it again.

Agree with the cover system though. Its annoying how you cant move around cover. I think it needs a Splinter Cell inclusion of having that little arrow to point around where you want to run and crouch next.

Yeah I know but when I'm in cover crouched and I press X to get out, Arno always stands back up. Doesn't matter if I've been holding L2 or just pressed once - or maybe it does and I'm doing something wrong. I'd check but it's wayyyy to late.

Just gonna have to practice I guess. Or switch to a combat heavy playstyle if I can't be arsed.

pacmanate
11-19-2014, 02:39 AM
If you press crouch button instead of hold, get into cover, then get out, Arno gets out of cover still crouched

Shahkulu101
11-19-2014, 02:42 AM
If you press crouch button instead of hold, get into cover, then get out, Arno gets out of cover still crouched

Oh.

Yeah I'm just being an imbecile. Nothing to see here folks, although my point still stands about this game needing a Splinter Cell snap to cover mechanic. Discuss that if you want I guess...

cawatrooper9
11-19-2014, 02:55 AM
I remember reading a review before I played that focused on how the author didn't like the snap to cover system. While I think that it's not nearly as good as many of the other cover systems out there, I think it's actually pretty decent.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-19-2014, 03:55 AM
Oh and climbing into windows - ARGHHHH!.

Yeah. They should really have it set so that if you're within 6ft of a window in any direction with the "enter window" button pushed, you should enter the window. It's not rocket science. The fact that they left it like this, with it being almost impossible to enter unless you're placed exactly right, speaks to how embarrassingly unfinished this game is.


EDIT: Oh I know this is a gameplay discussion but just to be on the cautious side; spoil anything and I will find you...

Arno turns out to be Spiderman

jetlee2777
11-19-2014, 04:35 AM
Yes thatīs true I donīt like that stealth system,too.

As sometimes when I sneak around,and want to "upright walk" I canīt and Arno is still sneaking eventhough when I press R2 for to run once I donīt press R2 he still keeps sneaking thatīs really pretty much annoying.


Yeah. They should really have it set so that if you're within 6ft of a window in any direction with the "enter window" button pushed, you should enter the window. It's not rocket science. The fact that they left it like this, with it being almost impossible to enter unless you're placed exactly right, speaks to how embarrassingly unfinished this game is.

@Pr0metheus 1962 Yes I can only agree with you sometimes I have trouble to enter "normal" a window too as Arno is luck of precision and heīs just jumping around the balcony balustrade like a monkey.

So please Ubisoft,if possible fix that little glitch.

Thank you.

Cactiii
11-19-2014, 04:53 AM
I think that the problem with the snap to cover system is that, instead of snapping to whatever you're looking at, it snaps to whatever's nearest, and it has a really small bubble. I learned to accommodate by getting to the piece of cover THEN pressing the cover button, and it works out fine without compromising stealth. I do wish that there was a turn the corner function, though.

cawatrooper9
11-19-2014, 04:55 AM
Honestly, I haven't had that much difficulty with getting into windows, either. I think it just takes some getting used to.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-19-2014, 05:05 AM
Honestly, I haven't had that much difficulty with getting into windows, either. I think it just takes some getting used to.

Have you played this game? Because you're beginning to sound like a fanboy in complete denial.

Aphex_Tim
11-19-2014, 02:30 PM
As much as I enjoy this game, I have to agree. The cover system is so hit 'n miss. Sometimes Arno takes cover behind the wrong object or just won't take cover at all. They add a mechanic where you can quickly switch cover but not one where you can quickly sneak around a corner. For that you have to get out of cover, go around the corner and get into cover again. Once you're in cover it takes ages to get out of it again; once you press the button it literally takes a second before you can control Arno, or sometimes he just won't come out of cover at all. I can't tell you how many assassination opportunities I've missed because of this...
It also doesn't help that the guards seem to have eyes in the back of their heads, can spot you from a mile away and once they spot you, all of Paris seems to immediately know where you are.

I also freakin' hate extremists. In their eyes, just walking by is somehow a crime and enough reason to kill you where you stand.

SpiritMuse
11-19-2014, 02:46 PM
Have you played this game? Because you're beginning to sound like a fanboy in complete denial.

I've actually found it not as finicky as I had expected either. It usually goes pretty smoothly. But maybe I'm lucky and just always happen to approach the window from the "correct" angle.

DSafrin
11-19-2014, 03:29 PM
I don't have much of problem with windows now, but it did take a few frustrating moments to figure it out (and sometimes I still miss it). It's not entirely bad, though - at least they added a button to get through the window, lol. :rolleyes:

As for the cover system - I rarely use it because of the reasons you all already stated. I feel that just crouching behind something is enough to be stealthy - snapping to a cover is not necessary most of the time since enemies don't see you if you just crouch behind something.
But at the very beginning - I wished they'd add a way to stay in cover AND go around the corner.

It does need polishing, but at least it's a step in the right direction. I don't expect anything to change now, but I hope they'll make it better for the next game.

SenseHomunculus
11-19-2014, 03:41 PM
Yeah. They should really have it set so that if you're within 6ft of a window in any direction with the "enter window" button pushed, you should enter the window. It's not rocket science. The fact that they left it like this, with it being almost impossible to enter unless you're placed exactly right, speaks to how embarrassingly unfinished this game is.


And likewise, if you DON'T push the 'enter window' button, you SHOULD NOT climb in the window. It's annoying twitchy.

SenseHomunculus
11-19-2014, 03:43 PM
I also freakin' hate extremists. In their eyes, just walking by is somehow a crime and enough reason to kill you where you stand.

Well, you have to admit, that IS pretty extreme... :p

MnemonicSyntax
11-19-2014, 03:52 PM
Have you played this game? Because you're beginning to sound like a fanboy in complete denial.

Enough of this talk. Seriously. It's against the rules and just causes problems. There's no need to call everyone a fanboy just because they can do something you have trouble doing or disagree with you.

-------------------------------------------------------

I can get into windows just fine as well.

It's balcony doors I have an issue with. Arno wants to hop around the little railing, I have to learn to press drop instead, and it's pretty hilarious when there are people leaning against the railing and Arno keeps knocking them out of the way.

king-hailz
11-19-2014, 03:59 PM
Lol you will be bold by the end of the game...

JustPlainQuirky
11-19-2014, 06:26 PM
the cover system is garbage

it ruined the stealth for me.

jetlee2777
11-20-2014, 05:28 PM
As much as I enjoy this game, I have to agree. The cover system is so hit 'n miss. Sometimes Arno takes cover behind the wrong object or just won't take cover at all. They add a mechanic where you can quickly switch cover but not one where you can quickly sneak around a corner. For that you have to get out of cover, go around the corner and get into cover again. Once you're in cover it takes ages to get out of it again; once you press the button it literally takes a second before you can control Arno, or sometimes he just won't come out of cover at all. I can't tell you how many assassination opportunities I've missed because of this...
It also doesn't help that the guards seem to have eyes in the back of their heads, can spot you from a mile away and once they spot you, all of Paris seems to immediately know where you are.

I also freakin' hate extremists. In their eyes, just walking by is somehow a crime and enough reason to kill you where you stand.

Agree and yes I also sometimes had the feeling that the guards have eyes in the back ;) and I hate that too that when you just walk close to them they immediatley attack you eventhough you havenīt done anything at all and once you fight/kill them they all suddenly come after you and when you try to escape from them by climbing on the buildings they can for some reasons still shot at you with their "small gun",but I think thatīs because the red guards are templars so they always in fact know who you are,while the blue guards are french soldiers and they donīt attack you unless you do something in front of them.

darksavior1977
11-20-2014, 07:58 PM
As much as I enjoy this game, I have to agree. The cover system is so hit 'n miss. Sometimes Arno takes cover behind the wrong object or just won't take cover at all. They add a mechanic where you can quickly switch cover but not one where you can quickly sneak around a corner. For that you have to get out of cover, go around the corner and get into cover again. Once you're in cover it takes ages to get out of it again; once you press the button it literally takes a second before you can control Arno, or sometimes he just won't come out of cover at all. I can't tell you how many assassination opportunities I've missed because of this...
It also doesn't help that the guards seem to have eyes in the back of their heads, can spot you from a mile away and once they spot you, all of Paris seems to immediately know where you are.

I also freakin' hate extremists. In their eyes, just walking by is somehow a crime and enough reason to kill you where you stand.

Totally agree, especially about not being able to round corners in cover. This game doesn't have tight enough controls for what they want to do with the stealth. I end up fighting the environment or the controls, or in combat the camera etc more often than the actual challenge of the AI. Sad.

bitebug2003
11-20-2014, 09:34 PM
I have to get used to the controls - playing Rogue at the moment - but I did a AC Unity test run and I don't enjoy the cover system.
Why does it show 'X Cover' when you're walking in a crowd - the prompt to knockout an enemy happens too late too

Clunky controls - Triangle for Eagle Vision - R1 for bombs - I die too quickly also..

Fatal-Feit
11-20-2014, 09:43 PM
I wouldn't have mind as much if they literally just copied and paste Watch_Dog's cover system. Stealth was surprisingly good in that game.

Shahkulu101
11-20-2014, 10:43 PM
So I was early on in the game and didn't really get a feel for the stealth - but I played quite a few co-op missions with Pac and noticed some more things about the stealth I didn't like:

Guards detect you way too easily now. It's all well and good to make the stealth more difficult but they detect you from some incredulous positions. You can't even hang from a ledge anymore, or perform a ledge assassination unseen unless there's literally no other guards around. They also spot you climbing on rooftops from the ground or on beams directly above them - while it's realistic it's not exactly fair in the context of the game - we've been doing these things for years and suddenly we can't. There's also the annoying hive mind effect from AC3 - get caught by one guard you're caught by them all. In general the detection radius for all the guards is a bit ridiculous, especially the gunmen. Now yes, I am rather bad at the stealth - I played co-op with Pac and he can vouch for that - and a lot of the time I get caught because I did something stupid - but so much of the time it's because the stealth, and simply getting Arno where you want him to go, is frustrating in the wrong ways. And tbh, the stealth here feels harder than dedicated games like Splinter Cell to me because the systems in Unity are so skewed against and unintuitive instead of actually being fair, having clear rules and having good controls as well as providing a challenge.

I love the freedom of approach and the fact that the mission design expects something of the player, even with the frustration that comes with them assassination missions are still thrilling just because of the wealth of options I have and the fact I have to figure out what to do myself. The systems that this great mission design supports, in my opinion, are not very good. So I want them to continue on this direction of simple objectives with a number of ways to do them, but they need to shore up the core mechanics IMO. An A for effort for actually revamping properly them for the first ever, though. Although this is my opinion, I think the general reception shows that it didn't quite work out but they must iterate on them and NEVER go back to the major handholding of previous games.

Jdeadevil
11-20-2014, 10:46 PM
I don't know why they didn't adopt a lot of the Watch_Dogs mechanics, this game is extremely sloppy.

SenseHomunculus
11-20-2014, 11:21 PM
I thought the stealth in The Last of Us was done well, too.