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Bad-Gerbil
07-14-2004, 05:06 AM
Crazyivan

Yes, I understand that some of the posts on the 19 pages were rather off topic; but saying that it's become a circus, is dismissing in an off-hand way probably the single most important gripe people have against this excellent sim.

If Ubi isn't going to do anything about the Flashes - just give the reasons and we can move on.

Thank you
BG

Bad-Gerbil
07-14-2004, 05:06 AM
Crazyivan

Yes, I understand that some of the posts on the 19 pages were rather off topic; but saying that it's become a circus, is dismissing in an off-hand way probably the single most important gripe people have against this excellent sim.

If Ubi isn't going to do anything about the Flashes - just give the reasons and we can move on.

Thank you
BG

alarmer
07-14-2004, 05:34 AM
There is a poll about it now. Lets all vote and see how it goes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

609IAP_Recon
07-14-2004, 05:55 AM
Oleg has answered this before.

There will be no changes to muzzle flashes in IL2.

Salute!

S!
Recon
Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

DarthBane_
07-14-2004, 07:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 7thFS_Recon:
Oleg has answered this before.

There will be no changes to muzzle flashes in IL2.

Salute!

S!
Recon
Full Real Virtual Online War: http://www.forgottenskies.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sory but that is not exeptable attitude, i mean we are supose to buy PF? or maybe not?
Down with flashes! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

crazyivan1970
07-14-2004, 07:20 AM
You got your answer? What else do you need? Some posts in that thread? How about 50% of the posts in that thread were useless... Wanna do your poll, be my guest, but if you turn it into 50 page circus, trust me, it wont take me long to lock it.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

IVJG51_Swine
07-14-2004, 07:49 AM
Hey Crazy Ivan, does anybody know if the issue is going to be addressed in BOB?(I realize it cannot be changed now due to the programming.) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks

www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

crazyivan1970
07-14-2004, 08:56 AM
BOB has completely new engine and i am sure Oleg will do something about it if he didn`t already. As far as AEP goes i think he made it clear that due to some engine limitations there is nothing can be done. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LuckyBoy1
07-14-2004, 09:14 AM
You know, I am trying to figure out why I have no sympathy for those who want the muzzle flash changed this way or that way. Maybe they are gun hobbyists who do not seem to realize that different powders were used back then. Maybe they don't seem to realize that given certain angle views to the muzzle flash, it could be substantial even in bright daylight.

But in the end, it is such a small issue to me. We can't even get something as glaringly wrong as the P-47 bomb loadout corrected and anti-cheating measures are being worked on as well. Persoanlly, I'd rather they spent their efforts on something other than the muzzle flash issue one way or the next.

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

TheJoyStick
07-14-2004, 02:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
You know, I am trying to figure out why I have no sympathy for those who want the muzzle flash changed this way or that way. Maybe they are gun hobbyists who do not seem to realize that different powders were used back then. Maybe they don't seem to realize that given certain angle views to the muzzle flash, it could be substantial even in bright daylight.

But in the end, it is such a small issue to me. We can't even get something as glaringly wrong as the P-47 bomb loadout corrected and anti-cheating measures are being worked on as well. Persoanlly, I'd rather they spent their efforts on something other than the muzzle flash issue one way or the next.

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I've shot a 30mm canno before. The muzzle flash is barely present.

Not to mention when you add about 400 MPH winds to the mix, there is no flash...

Now, at night.. That's a whole new story. That's a bigass flash at night. But during the day.. Nah.


Animating the muzzle flash is as simple as opening MS paint, and scaling it down a bit, which wouldn't take long. However, I do agree.. More things are more important than muzzleflashes, like putting my Macchi in-game.

mr.denali
07-15-2004, 03:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
You know, I am trying to figure out why I have no sympathy for those who want the muzzle flash changed this way or that way. Maybe they are gun hobbyists who do not seem to realize that different powders were used back then. Maybe they don't seem to realize that given certain angle views to the muzzle flash, it could be substantial even in bright daylight.

But in the end, it is such a small issue to me. We can't even get something as glaringly wrong as the P-47 bomb loadout corrected and anti-cheating measures are being worked on as well. Persoanlly, I'd rather they spent their efforts on something other than the muzzle flash issue one way or the next.

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

I do completely disagree with you on this issue.

It is not a small issue at all! The huge MF spoils the fun of the game BIG TIME.

When flying LW planes (as I do most time) with center mounted cannons/MGs it is impossible to adjust the aiming while shooting. It's as simple as this. And it is plain ridiculous why no correction is implemented (don't tell me about the gigantic programming effort to change it - just compare IL2 MF with FB MF).

So why is Oleg not telling the real reason behind his refusal to change it? If this is rational then ok, but otherwise why shoud I buy PF with Hollywood-style MF and have no fun at all?

cheers,

mr.denali

[This message was edited by mr.denali on Thu July 15 2004 at 01:51 PM.]

CHDT
07-15-2004, 03:46 AM
13 years in the Swiss army as an AA gunner. Never seen a single muzzleflash by day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

plumps_
07-15-2004, 08:42 AM
Maybe that's because in 13 years no enemy aircraft attacked Switzerland? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

-----------------------------------
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My Missions (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/missionen-en.html)

Wallstein
07-15-2004, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You got your answer? What else do you need? Some posts in that thread? How about 50% of the posts in that thread were useless... Wanna do your poll, be my guest, but if you turn it into 50 page circus, trust me, it wont take me long to lock it.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

|CoB|_Spectre
07-15-2004, 06:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
How about 50% of the posts in that thread were useless...
V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOS
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be honest now, doesn't that apply to the DG and ORR forums in general? The opposite of "useless" is "useful". If you distill it all down, I dare say you'd be hard pressed to get 50% of the posted content that could be in any way considered useful. The Mission Builder, Technical, Paintschemes and Movie Makers forums generally share information that can be useful to people interested in those things. Most forums are a sounding board for the "community" (also known as the "market"). ORR started off as a way for the development team to acquire feedback on issues their buying public either wanted to see fixed in the sim (i.e. K4 inoperative rudder) or incorporated (i.e., searchlights). Oleg used to maintain a presence there and engaged in a dialogue with the posters, but those days are gone. 1C:Maddox developed a reputation early on for listening and interacting with their buying public. All products have a lifespan which hinges on many things, some complex, some simple. As with most things, keeping an eye on the simple issues like selling a quality product and supporting it after the sale are time-tested forumlae for endurance in a competitive market. Until a serious contender to the Maddox team comes along, this is the pinnacle of WWII air combat simmage. Make no mistake about it, they cannot, however, rest on their laurels and think it will always be this way.

Willey
07-16-2004, 03:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 7thFS_Recon:
Oleg has answered this before.

There will be no changes to muzzle flashes in IL2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For how much things did he said that and eventually it did indeed change... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ROF of MG 17, 131, .30s and ShKAS
.50s
190 elevator
etc
etc

DarthBane_
07-16-2004, 03:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by |CoB|_Spectre:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
How about 50% of the posts in that thread were useless...
V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOS
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be honest now, doesn't that apply to the DG and ORR forums in general? The opposite of "useless" is "useful". If you distill it all down, I dare say you'd be hard pressed to get 50% of the posted content that could be in any way considered useful. The Mission Builder, Technical, Paintschemes and Movie Makers forums generally share information that can be useful to people interested in those things. Most forums are a sounding board for the "community" (also known as the "market"). ORR started off as a way for the development team to acquire feedback on issues their buying public either wanted to see fixed in the sim (i.e. K4 inoperative rudder) or incorporated (i.e., searchlights). Oleg used to maintain a presence there and engaged in a dialogue with the posters, but those days are gone. 1C:Maddox developed a reputation early on for listening and interacting with their buying public. All products have a lifespan which hinges on many things, some complex, some simple. As with most things, keeping an eye on the simple issues like selling a quality product and supporting it after the sale are time-tested forumlae for endurance in a competitive market. Until a serious contender to the Maddox team comes along, this is the pinnacle of WWII air combat simmage. Make no mistake about it, they cannot, however, rest on their laurels and think it will always be this way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was said before, there is no competiton and that led us to this rude attitude, we allready bought game, and then bought 2 more CDs of the same game with some add things, and now developers dont care anymore, the most dangerous thing for buyers on market is when there is only one product. If there was(other), we would get replies from developers with sugar on top. And ofcourse misserable muzzle flash would dissapear in no time at all.
All we can get now is a thread lock.
Great work 1c. You are the greatest! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
But we will see about buying PF.

Future-
07-16-2004, 10:49 AM
So some folks in here fluff their feathers that much about those muzzle flashes that they actually are "threatening" not to buy PF, regardless of how good the "rest" of the new game will be?

This is laughable - at best.

I request that this thread gets locked please.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 11:03 AM
Darth, if muzzle flashes are such a major showstopper for you, don`t buy PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, let the protest begin! Oh wait, it`s your loss after all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

JG52Schatten
07-16-2004, 01:27 PM
Uhmmmm... Ivan, first let me say that I have alot of respect for you. Your job IS NOT easy. I know you hear enough **** to drive you crazy. I feel for you in this regard. BUT, if enough people feel like Darthbane about the muzzle flashes and don't buy PF and buy some other company's sim instead, whether it be a flight-sim or not... it is OLEG'S loss! $$$ not in his pocket! Not hard to figure out. Supply & Demand. Lots of demands are being made. Overwhelmingly so, I know. But if the most sought after demands are not met (supplied), then you are losing potential repeat-customers in the future. Granted, I don't agree with changing things that are accurate in the game in favor for something that is not just because enough people "whine" for it... that's unethical... but there has been a lot of evidence to support the argument that the MFs are off.

I can understand that there may be "engine limitations" involved, but are the flashes not image-based (bmp, gif) like plane skins, objects (houses, trees) etc.? Surely if they were, they (the files) could be modified and replaced without re-writing code. However, whenever this is mentioned, there is seldom any reply concerning this. Just met with, "IT WILL NOT BE CHANGED". Sounds like the parent who can't give a good reason, "BECAUSE I SAID SO". If you can answer this, then you may can help satisfactorly end all of the fuss: Are the muzzle flashes image-based? If not, what are they?

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 02:06 PM
I agree and disagree with you mate. You have some valid points and some of it just can`t be done. Maybe i did not express myself correctly... it`s not like i agree with muzzle flashes, i don`t. They are like a high bims, but the thing is, O.M. replied many times on this issue and explained how and why. But still, we get all upset about it and make up 400 pages threads which usually slipp off the subject on the page 3. I still think it`s something that i, personally can live with and i don`t see why others can`t. Maddox changed alot of things per requests of users, tons of stuff. It`s not like he doesn`t care, sometimes he just can`t make everyone happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Think about this for a second... AEP, PF and BOB on his plate... and as he stated downsizing muzzle flashes requires SERIOUS changes in the graphics engine. Maybe we just don`t completely understand complexity of it? For a user it looks like a simple change, in reality it could be months of work. Ya know what i mean http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

VW-IceFire
07-16-2004, 02:58 PM
I would direct your energy towards (and perhaps the message has long already been sent out) ensuring that BoB doens't have the "sun going nova" (tm) muzzleflashes. Oleg's explained that they are the way they have to be in the current game engine. Changes would require hundreds of hours and would setback development of new products. Albiet PF is a new product but its really just more content and not a fundamental change to the entire engine like this apparently would be.

BoB should take into account the lessons learned. If it doesn't...then you have reason to say that Oleg didn't listen at all. On the other hand, if they have...then you know that its simply a matter of development and flexibility in a system that wasn't previously flexible.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 03:09 PM
Bingo....

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Mispunt
07-16-2004, 04:46 PM
Sigh, people making assumptions and wanting to speak for all of us... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Ok, who here knows how FB's particle systems are set up?

Who knows which objects share the same muzzle flashes?

Who knows how big the current team working on FB is?

Anyone?

Not many I think....

Yet still some seem to think they can tell Oleg and his team what and how to do it? Funny that.
If he says it can't be fixed and he won't then he probably has his reasons for it.
Nothing is impossible but everything is done for a reason.
Just like the fact that he's not showing his face here anymore.

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Mispunt-MisSig.jpg

DarthBane_
07-16-2004, 07:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I would direct your energy towards (and perhaps the message has long already been sent out) ensuring that BoB doens't have the "sun going nova" (tm) muzzleflashes. Oleg's explained that they are the way they have to be in the current game engine. Changes would require hundreds of hours and would setback development of new products. Albiet PF is a new product but its really just more content and not a fundamental change to the entire engine like this apparently would be.

BoB should take into account the lessons learned. If it doesn't...then you have reason to say that Oleg didn't listen at all. On the other hand, if they have...then you know that its simply a matter of development and flexibility in a system that wasn't previously flexible.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you just say that we should wait for BOB, non existing product that will come out who knows when knowing the 1c precision of release dates to see if muzzle flash will dissapear?
We have a major bug in game we all curently play. A BUG that should be corrected now, not in distant future. If it cannot be tonned down, it should dissapear completely, that is much closer to real if you fired machinegun ever. I did for many months, 16 to be precise.
There are no excuses for BUGS in products, only fixing.

609IAP_Recon
07-16-2004, 08:12 PM
Darthbane, do you want them working on the next greatest engine (BoB), or constantly going back to FB and fixing each item?

I for one have played with muzzle flashes since IL2 came out - are they great? no. Have I played for all this time shooting down tons of bandits with it? yes.

This isn't a HUGE bug - it's an annoyance, but certainly not as overblown as your statement.

My opinion: Oleg, after PF is complete, devote your time to BoB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Salute!

S!
Recon
http://www.forgottenskies.com/kerry.jpg
Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

AnaK774
07-17-2004, 12:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Who knows which objects share the same muzzle flashes?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dunno, but my guess goes to Tirpiz main battery http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AKA LeOs.K_Anak

VVS-Manuc
07-17-2004, 01:52 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Mispunt
07-17-2004, 02:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AnaK774:


Dunno, but my guess goes to Tirpiz main battery http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AKA LeOs.K_Anak<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Mispunt-MisSig.jpg

CHDT
07-17-2004, 02:46 AM
From this topic on SimHQ:

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=011321


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The 30mm MK 108 was disliked by most experienced crews. First, the muzzle flash was much too blinding for effective use at night<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, a big muzzle flash can be annoying for aiming in real life.

And read also what is written: "AT NIGHT"

JG52Schatten
07-17-2004, 06:05 PM
Excellent find CHDT. Yeah, it is interesting to see what transpired in the thread following that article... How MM1765 leaves the words "at night" out of the quote in his post. He would have us believe that being blinded in daylight is accurate.

Ivan, now that we've had our explanation of WHY NOT delivered, it may be a good time to shut this down so as not to prolong the arguing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

After all, this was the true purpose of this thread; to find out WHY NOT: "If Ubi isn't going to do anything about the Flashes - just give the reasons and we can move on." ---Bad-Gerbil

Time to move on indeed. But will it prevent new threads concerning this from showing up? Probably not. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

crazyivan1970
07-17-2004, 10:47 PM
Probably not Schatten... once in the while this will pop up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.