PDA

View Full Version : Stuff that should have been in Unity, but isn't. (Game Mechanic Spoilers)



pacmanate
11-17-2014, 05:38 PM
Just finished Unity and I couldn't help but notice some things that were removed from the game that have been in past iterations.


1. Whistle
2. Pick Up Bodies
3. Gentle Push


Whilst these seem minor, they are such vital things!

Firstly, whistling. I'm pretty sure one OO is to take out guards from hide spots. Problem is, they might not even go to where you are as it's not their set route.
Second, Pick up Bodies. Stealth game... should be able to hide bodies...
Finally Gentle Push, with the amount of NPC's on screen, WHY was this not a thing?

Fatal-Feit
11-17-2014, 05:42 PM
Whistling was replaced by cherry bombs.

pacmanate
11-17-2014, 05:47 PM
Whistling was replaced by cherry bombs.

Which is dumb. Cause why would you drop an entire bomb if you want to lure one person. Not sure if you saw the radius but its huge. Whistling would be about a 5th of the size and make sense.

JustPlainQuirky
11-17-2014, 06:18 PM
Yeah whistling being gone was annoying. I had to purposely show myself to get guards attention. Not very assassin-y.

Also swimming underwater is gone. Not much water in the game anyway but there's been 2-3 times when going underwater could have helped.

Also the back eject never seems to work anymore.

pacmanate
11-17-2014, 06:24 PM
Yeah whistling being gone was annoying. I had to purposely show myself to get guards attention. Not very assassin-y.

Also swimming underwater is gone. Not much water in the game anyway but there's been 2-3 times when going underwater could have helped.

Also the back eject never seems to work anymore.

Ah yes! Hiding underwater would have been good too.

Back Eject was annoying. I didnt put it in my list as its there but seems to work differently.

It looks like Back Eject and Drop only work if there is something to drop too/Jump too! There have been a few times where I just wanted to drop from a huge height to drop into water but I wasn't allowed.

rprkjj
11-17-2014, 06:58 PM
Never picked up bodies, nor did I use gentle push/fast walk past ACR. Automatic gentle pushing/fast walking is better imo. As for whistle, I don't really care for it, it worked with AC4 which designed guard paths and behaviors around, but Unity doesn't which I'm okay with.

DavisP92
11-17-2014, 06:58 PM
Whistling was replaced by cherry bombs.

can't throw a cherry bomb in a haystack though can me :D. or drop a cherrybomb while we're hanging on a ledge.

shobhit7777777
11-17-2014, 07:05 PM
Cherry bombs =/= Whistling

Whistling allows you to attract the attention of a particular NPC

Cherry Bombs are a general diversion tool.

Let me put it this way -

I'd throw a cherry bomb....the guards and the civvies would wonder WTF is going on and check it out....as they are doing so, I'd whistle at one of the guards, lure him towards me, slot him and then move on without anyone being the wiser.

TheDivsionFan
11-17-2014, 07:08 PM
Bayonets on the rifles? (I haven't been able to play due to my brother creating a profile before I could) but from what he says this does not exist which makes zero sense to me.

MnemonicSyntax
11-17-2014, 07:22 PM
The ability to disarm/pick up weapons off the ground on the fly. I like mixing it up and bit and switching to a menu while paused just kills it for me.

Fist fighting would be nice, as I don't particularly enjoy killing the police.

It's like if they would just combine everything from previous games with Unity's combat I would be so happy!

I absolutely agree with everything you said Pac as well.

Hidden blade combat would be cool, but I get why they don't use it and it's not that big of an issue to me.

Wolfmeister1010
11-17-2014, 07:35 PM
The whistling I kinda agree with. On one hand I enjoy that it makes you move yourself around more and it is ore challenging, but on the other hand it is annoying at times trying to take out certain guards without the function. The game even promotes being seen and using last known location to get guards to move around..which..ah..kinda defeats the purpose of stealth. I would not be against whistling returning.

The other two things I don't care about. I can get through crowds easily enough, and I never took the time to hide bodies before because the animation is long and annoying and the guards would just walk over and walk right back to their posts and act like it never happened.

The guards do tend to not really care in Unity as well but that must be a glitch..they specifically said that guards will never just waltz back to their posts and instead choose to interrogate civilians and extremists. And Ubi has not lied about anything regarding this game's features..other than "seamless" co op I suppose.

pacmanate
11-17-2014, 08:06 PM
I've just noticed a lot of the points (Underwater swimming, gentle push, whistle, grab bodies)could have and have in the past been assigned to the Circle key on PS3/PS4... and now they just have no function in each situation.

ACfan443
11-17-2014, 08:30 PM
The whistle function was like an extension of my stealth arm, it felt frustrating and odd not having it there. As others have mentioned, the cherry bomb was effective at displacing large groups of guards but not so good at drawing the attention of single one. I too improvised and used the last known position trick to get a guard to walk over to my cover location to take him out, but it was kinda unreliable and counterproductive to stealth.

On a more positive note, I loved how the game limited the amount of silent long range ammunition you could carry and encouraged you to pick off guards one by one Hitman style, I felt like a true assassin.

SixKeys
11-17-2014, 09:42 PM
Whistling was the most unrealistic thing. Imagine yourself being a soldier guarding a restricted area. Suddenly you hear a whistle behind a corner. Do you move in for a closer look like an idiot or do you draw your weapon and yell at the person to come out with their hands up?

ACfan443
11-17-2014, 09:49 PM
Whistling was the most unrealistic thing. Imagine yourself being a soldier guarding a restricted area. Suddenly you hear a whistle behind a corner. Do you move in for a closer look like an idiot or do you draw your weapon and yell at the person to come out with their hands up?

Sure, but AI in AC has always reacted pretty stupidly in any given scenario, dumb guards and dumb sounding mechanics go hand in hand right? :p

SixKeys
11-17-2014, 10:01 PM
Sure, but AI in AC has always reacted pretty stupidly in any given scenario, dumb guards and dumb sounding mechanics go hand in hand right? :p

But now Unity has actually tried making the guards smarter and people are still complaining. What the heck do you people actually want? Do you want the AI to remain dumb or not?

Assassin_M
11-17-2014, 10:13 PM
I actually missed whistling but I managed to find a way around it. The last mission i played was in a sort of playground and there was lots of opportunity for cover. I'd leap into a haystack, throw a cherry bomb, guards look the other way and i'd get to move to wherever i want. If I needed to kill someone, i thought that moving around to kill and then hide again instead of remaining stationary and calling guards to you was really more fun. My only complaint would be when guards find dead bodies. They just kneel down, get surprised and be on their way. it's always been like that since AC II. In AC I, the guards would draw out their swords and actively look for you.

ACfan443
11-17-2014, 10:13 PM
But now Unity has actually tried making the guards smarter and people are still complaining. What the heck do you people actually want? Do you want the AI to remain dumb or not?

They're hardly smarter in Unity. In fact, at times they act even more stupid, if a fight breaks out in a room a group of guards just a few metres away are completely oblivious to the commotion.

shobhit7777777
11-17-2014, 10:24 PM
Whistling was the most unrealistic thing. Imagine yourself being a soldier guarding a restricted area. Suddenly you hear a whistle behind a corner. Do you move in for a closer look like an idiot or do you draw your weapon and yell at the person to come out with their hands up?

You just pointed out where and how AC ****s up when it comes to stealth gameplay ;)

Yep, whistling IS an extremely idiotic way to attract attention in a 'Restricted Area' - key word here.....however, whistling is actually PERFECT for social stealth gameplay in dens, crowded streets as its something a guard would check out and not be immediately suspicious.

However, Assassin's Creed's "Stealth" missions are almost ALWAYS set in areas devoid of civillian life and away from the hustle-bustle of a city. This creates serious gaps between the player's perception of what is acceptable AI and straight up dumb AI.

Think about it.

AC's AI - in every single game - with the crappy "eyesight", the non-existant hearing is DESIGNED for Urban playgrounds....and I don't think Ubi realizes this.

Poor eyesight and hearing of the guards in a city can be attributed to the generally more relaxed attitude of any sentries in civillian areas and the overall ambient activity. When a guard doesn't recognize Arno swaggering about from 20 feet away....its perfectly believable...because the player can attribute it to the crowds, the noise etc.

Put the same guard and Arno in closed hallway....and when the guard fails to spot, recognize and investigate Arno....it shatters immersion.


Ubisoft has been employing AI designed for social stealth in situations where those routines seem out of place. It has been using mechanics better fit for urban environments in more traditional stealth gameplay scenarios.

AC4 managed to pull it off because of the hide spots but even then the guard AI was bad...at best....and non-existant at worse.

Ubisoft's take on stealth gameplay in the franchise is fractured....it just doesn't make sense.


That said, from what I've seen and heard.....the scenarios seem to have improved...and the mechanics are more accomodating of social stealth (Crowds, LKP, covert assassinations)

Farlander1991
11-17-2014, 10:55 PM
Why do people complain about fist fighting? Judging by the tutorials, when enemy's health is low and you press 'Space' (on PC) you knock out the enemy, which is kinda non-lethal. Sure, you slice and dice the person for a bit before that, but, hey, it's not like one can't survive the wounds and honestly pretty much most of the fistfighting as shown in the game is VERY damaging for the person getting kicked the **** out of.

Aphex_Tim
11-17-2014, 11:24 PM
Fist fighting would be nice, as I don't particularly enjoy killing the police.


Indeed; a way around it is to use a rifle in melee combat. You just beat the crap out of 'em with the buttstock and they won't die.
Also, it's really cool to be able to play as a rifleman in this game. ;)




The guards do tend to not really care in Unity as well but that must be a glitch..

I really noticed this today during a mission with a bunch of rooftop guards around. There was a guard just in range of my rifle and another guard standing right behind him and I was just out of that one's line of sight. The second guard didn't move a single muscle when his buddy got shot in the face right in front of him. Didn't even bother to "investigate" the body. He just stood there, not giving a hoot. :rolleyes:

MnemonicSyntax
11-17-2014, 11:29 PM
Indeed; a way around it is to use a rifle in melee combat. You just beat the crap out of 'em with the buttstock and they won't die.
Also, it's really cool to be able to play as a rifleman in this game. ;)



Yes, but I'd love to not have to switch back and forth via a menu, while incognito to get the rifle, ya know? I primarily play one-handed sword.

Rifle isn't bad though, I've messed with all of them. I just enjoy sword the most.

SenseHomunculus
11-17-2014, 11:37 PM
In addition to OP's list, human shield. Unbelievable to me they left that out.

gnosis_guyver1
11-18-2014, 12:10 AM
techniques that were taken away like human shield, disarm, counter attack this should have been tied to the rank progression system. The more skill arno gets the better techniques he gets also they could make executing the techniques a bit harder in timing. Most fights are like duels and arno lacks the ability to finish them in one strike which means he can get overwhelmed too easily.

Also different enemy types like in rogue that can move and fight like arno. Templar assassin killers

and the hidden blade and barehanded fighting styles returned.

Ygdrasel
11-18-2014, 12:30 AM
I had to purposely show myself to get guards attention. Not very assassin-y.

Says who? The people who confuse assassins with ghosts? Popping into a guard's view for a moment to spook or distract him is very much assassin-y. Just watch the intro carnivale scene in AC2. :P

MnemonicSyntax
11-18-2014, 12:41 AM
techniques that were taken away like human shield, disarm, counter attack this should have been tied to the rank progression system. The more skill arno gets the better techniques he gets also they could make executing the techniques a bit harder in timing. Most fights are like duels and arno lacks the ability to finish them in one strike which means he can get overwhelmed too easily.

Also different enemy types like in rogue that can move and fight like arno. Templar assassin killers

and the hidden blade and barehanded fighting styles returned.

I like your style.

ACfan443
11-18-2014, 12:47 AM
In addition to OP's list, human shield. Unbelievable to me they left that out.

Completely off topic, but your signature is hilarious, that caption.

SenseHomunculus
11-18-2014, 01:00 AM
Completely off topic, but your signature is hilarious, that caption.

Haha thanks. It's credit to the ACU devs though. Those clips are the stuff of nightmares. LOL

Tysodie
11-18-2014, 01:14 AM
In addition to OP's list, human shield. Unbelievable to me they left that out.

It's actually a good thing they left it out. In previous games guns were not even a threat because of it, basically handed out a free kill to you if anyone did try and shoot you. With it gone things are more challenging and for the better.

Fatal-Feit
11-18-2014, 01:23 AM
Why do people complain about fist fighting? Judging by the tutorials, when enemy's health is low and you press 'Space' (on PC) you knock out the enemy, which is kinda non-lethal. Sure, you slice and dice the person for a bit before that, but, hey, it's not like one can't survive the wounds and honestly pretty much most of the fistfighting as shown in the game is VERY damaging for the person getting kicked the **** out of.

This.

And Unity does a great job of implementing non-lethal tactics in Unity. For one, you can stealthily knock out enemies, and two, you don't have to finish them off. It's the final blows that's lethal. But if you feel the need to finish an enemy, just hold the knock-down button to drop kick them. I find it to be great that we don't have to deal with the equipping fist BS.

Btw, dude, add me on Uplay. :mad:

MnemonicSyntax
11-18-2014, 01:30 AM
I don't see why the fist thing matters to those that don't like or want it? It's another option that people who do want it can use, and those that don't can just not use it.

As for the "non-lethal" in Unity, in my mind there isn't any. Getting slashed and stabbed through and then writhing on the ground in pain just means you're letting them suffer before they die instead of ending it quickly.

None of that would fly in a "don't kill anyone" mission in previous games. Plus, and, more importantly, the fists serve as a way to disarm, which is sorely missed.

Again all options for people that want them.

Dev_Anj
11-18-2014, 01:45 AM
You just pointed out where and how AC ****s up when it comes to stealth gameplay ;)
Yep, whistling IS an extremely idiotic way to attract attention in a 'Restricted Area' - key word here.....however, whistling is actually PERFECT for social stealth gameplay in dens, crowded streets as its something a guard would check out and not be immediately suspicious.


I agree, in fact I've been wondering why haven't they adopted two sets of AI, one for public spaces and one for restricted areas. It wouldn't take much to explain the player either, they would understand that in public spaces, guards wouldn't be as uptight and so they could be more easily distracted, unlike in restricted areas.

Fatal-Feit
11-18-2014, 01:49 AM
I don't see why the fist thing matters to those that don't like or want it? It's another option that people who do want it can use, and those that don't can just not use it.

Implementing a whole feature like fist fighting is more than just an option. It plays in with the rest of the mechanics. There are things they must sacrifice for the sake of it. Take for example, the buttons. How will we equip our fists? Is it through the D-PAD? But the D-PAD's already for tools. Is losing some accessibility worth it? Fists are already more or less obsolete with the already implemented non-lethal mechanics.


As for the "non-lethal" in Unity, in my mind there isn't any. Getting slashed and stabbed through and then writhing on the ground in pain just means you're letting them suffer before they die instead of ending it quickly.

Only finishers can pull off lethal blows like stabbing through an enemy. For the most part, it's just an exchange of cuts and bruises. People have survived far worse.


None of that would fly in a "don't kill anyone" mission in previous games. Plus, and, more importantly, the fists serve as a way to disarm, which is sorely missed.

Disarming can be implemented without fists. e.i - North American Saga.

MnemonicSyntax
11-18-2014, 01:54 AM
Disarming can be implemented without fists. e.i - North American Saga.

I mean taking it from them straight away and using it against them.

Still don't see the problem. It's been on the D-Pad before.

Fatal-Feit
11-18-2014, 01:57 AM
I mean taking it from them straight away and using it against them.

Still don't see the problem. It's been on the D-Pad before.

Just an example.

MnemonicSyntax
11-18-2014, 01:58 AM
Sure, and it's not a bad one in the least. It could certainly help with some of the larger battles in Unity especially. I'd love to "break defense" on some of the pistol wielders.

Fatal-Feit
11-18-2014, 02:07 AM
I feel like Unity's combat is just getting fleshed out, so we can expect some pretty cool additions in the next game. I really do hope disarm makes it as a new ability. Oh, and some sort of back stabbing mechanic. So far, my only complaint is how automatic sheathing/drawing the weapon is. It can be a huge pain in the *** sometimes, especially when the enemy AIs are stupid and can't detect you, which makes you sheath you weapon and pull it back out a bunch of times, making the combat look sloppy. That and the sometimes unresponsive controls, unreliable camera, and unrealistic dodge roll animations.

SixKeys
11-18-2014, 02:39 AM
In addition to OP's list, human shield. Unbelievable to me they left that out.

Human shield never worked well for me. It was extremely hit and miss. I don't miss such a clumsy mechanic.

shobhit7777777
11-18-2014, 07:22 AM
I agree, in fact I've been wondering why haven't they adopted two sets of AI, one for public spaces and one for restricted areas. It wouldn't take much to explain the player either, they would understand that in public spaces, guards wouldn't be as uptight and so they could be more easily distracted, unlike in restricted areas.

Two AI sets were discussed here during AC4....it was largely accepted as the ideal solution IIRC. In urban areas your guards are more laidback and less eagle-eyed and in restricted areas they behave more like the guards in the latest SC games.

The above does have an issue regarding consistency. The dumbing down of guards in different areas would be painfully obvious and jarring to any player....the game can't communicate clearly the reason behind this gap and it would IMO negatively impact the way the it is perceived.

It is there in-game in a way....restricted area guards get PO'd more easily and are more volatile.


IDK....I'd rather they stick to more social stealth scenarios. Hitman: Absolution's AI should be a jumping off point. They've done it well.

More nuanced reactions from the guards would be nice...IDK how exactly Unity handles it, but I did like the persistance bullying of the guards in the Ezio games whenever you effed up.....not as punishing as the AC1 guards, but still enough to make the AI seem human.

Honestly, I'd like to overhaul the majority of the systems in-game to REALLY drive home the 'Blade in the crowd' gameplay. Living breathing crowds which not only react to the player but also make the react to their actions...a volatile organism which changes according to the player's actions in the game world.
Notoriety
Social acceptance
Class divides
Player behaviour

There are a lot of layers that can be added to a city to really beef up the gameplay. I think they should take a leaf from Far Cry's book and let the game craft its own narratives....and for that they need robust, deep systems.

Anykeyer
11-18-2014, 08:12 AM
But now Unity has actually tried making the guards smarter and people are still complaining. What the heck do you people actually want? Do you want the AI to remain dumb or not?

Dunno what they tried but guards are actually dumber. They never checked any hiding spots and dont even try to search for you. Just wander around your last known position for a few seconds. Thats stupid, if you lost someone when he was going into the room why you dont check this room?
But the mechanic I really dislike is disguise skill. Taken directly from competitive multiplayer w/o even considering what that means. MP was a purely virtual training arena, not based on genetic memories (except for locations and avatars). They had all sort of magic abilities here: teleport, blender, animus shield, disguise... So now I should pretend that Arno could transform himself into anyone he saw? X-Men Creed.

projectpat06
11-18-2014, 08:49 AM
I would have liked to see the disarm feature and fist to fist combat as well. I was hoping the disarm feature would have been an upgrade. They could have kept it with the new combat system and still not allow us to counter attack. They could have even forced us to weaken enemy half way before we have the option to disarm. Even then, this could have been a skill that needs to be recharged so we're not overpowered. (it probably takes a ton of skill and strength to disarm someone attacking you!)

As for the the unarmed combat, there were times (towards the end of the story especially) where fighting with a weapon seemed a little excessive.

I liked that the whistle was gone as it added to the already increased difficulty making this game better.

I did miss the ability to use a human shield against gunfire and where the heck did the firing squads go? They were in the CGI trailer and there is a large military presence in paris. This skill could have also been a great upgrade that again could have limited in terms of use. I was sad to see both features go even though I honestly didn't notice until later in the game.

dxsxhxcx
11-18-2014, 11:03 AM
I would have liked to see the disarm feature and fist to fist combat as well. I was hoping the disarm feature would have been an upgrade. They could have kept it with the new combat system and still not allow us to counter attack. They could have even forced us to weaken enemy half way before we have the option to disarm. Even then, this could have been a skill that needs to be recharged so we're not overpowered. (it probably takes a ton of skill and strength to disarm someone attacking you!)

As for the the unarmed combat, there were times (towards the end of the story especially) where fighting with a weapon seemed a little excessive.

what about the very beginning of the game when Arno is probably the only person in a gala ball (and other places where he obviously shouldn't be with his sword) with a weapon?! disarm/unarmed combat would've made that whole thing less awkward... let alone the "fact" that he pratically becomes a criminal at the beginning of the game when he beat the guards... he might be some sort of noble but things like that shouldn't go unpunished but the story fail to adress that...

Pr0metheus 1962
11-18-2014, 11:54 AM
Whistling was replaced by cherry bombs.

Which don't work.

DevilGearKombat
11-18-2014, 01:13 PM
Because they wanted to boast, they're "recreating the franchise." Pfft.

RickiTickiToc
11-18-2014, 02:28 PM
Which don't work.

the Cherry bombs don't work well for me either.

other things I miss are:

factions, the courtesans and the thieves etc... they were handy for cover.
multiplayer as it was from brotherhood to black-flag
back eject or drop (from certain places). - I got stuck on Notre-Dame and had to fast travel out, I literally couldn't move in any direction.
shops that you could buy and/or renovate, I know you can buy the social clubs, but you don't get the benefit of cheaper prices as you did before.
climbing puzzle area's. like ones in revelations. no baddies, but the sense of impending doom from a drop.
the lock picking mechanism with the sticks, the mechanism in Unity is just annoying even with lock pick level 3.
getting into windows - that's just so frustrating!
load times, I know the areas are big, but really? 2/3 minutes with NOTHING on the screen?

on a brighter note, things that are a marked improvement:

crouching - that's taken a while to get from splinter cell to AC, but great that it has
transition animations, like when Arno flips around over a ledge onto a roof
cut scenes seem far more polished (except when there's a glitch)
"real world" research is required for some missions, it's almost feels like I'm learning something! specifically collecting the Nostradamus fragments.

cawatrooper9
11-18-2014, 02:34 PM
The biggest thing that I miss is the ability to back eject and side jump. For the most part, I'm happy with what they took out/added.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-18-2014, 08:33 PM
The biggest thing that I miss is the ability to back eject and side jump.

Back eject does work. But it's on different buttons than it used to be. On the Xbox (IIRC) you have to hold the right trigger and press A. I like this better actually.

What I miss most of all in Unity are the minigames. They should have had chess. Watch Dogs had a very fun set of chess games and Unity, with its setting, missed out on a very important part of Chess history, as Paris was THE chess hub of the 18th Century.

I also miss the courtesans and the thieves and the pigeon coop assassination contracts. Also, the Templar strongholds - it was great fun taking over these places and replacing their flag with yours, and they could have easily done this in Unity with the Assassins being the moderates and the Templars being the radicals. This stuff wasn't broken, so why take it out?

DanPenfold
11-18-2014, 09:27 PM
I think they should add new save slots into the game. And this is missing from the game, As i do not want to delete the main game i have done. And then have to do though it all again. It's kind of stupid that way.

Sushiglutton
11-18-2014, 09:28 PM
I disagree a lot with stuff being said here :).

Picking up bodies: This was a completely useless feature in the previous games as you were'nt punished for bodies being found anyway. Sure they could have implemented something for that, but I'm fine with it this way tbh.

Fistfighting/HB-fighting: Neither of these added anything to the game imo. It was just a different set of animations. If it was up to me Arno would only have a rapier in the game lol (with five more moves). Actual combat variety >>>>>>>>>> cosmetic combat variety.

Gentle push: Yeah these animations should be in the game imo. That said, they seem to have struggled like hell to get the crowds to function, perhaps it has something to do with that.

Whistle: You have a couple of other technques like cherrybombs and last known position. I dunno, I could go either way on this one.

Picking up weapons: Useless feature imo.


Overall I think Ubi has done a lot of great streamlining decisions. If it was up to me I would throw a lot more in the garbage bin :D!

Pr0metheus 1962
11-18-2014, 11:13 PM
Whistle: You have a couple of other technques like cherrybombs...

How many times does it have to be said: They DON'T WORK!

Maybe they work post-patch. I'll have to check. They seem to have fixed a lot of the guard stupidity - they actually do chase after you now, so it may be that they also investigate cherry bombs.


If it was up to me I would throw a lot more in the garbage bin http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/biggrin.png!

Then I thank God you're not in charge of game development at Ubisoft, because a lot of what they've thrown out worked fine, and what they've left in the game is already too little.

Megas_Doux
11-18-2014, 11:16 PM
Needing the whistle = newbie.

FACT!

MnemonicSyntax
11-18-2014, 11:17 PM
I disagree a lot with stuff being said here :).

Picking up bodies: This was a completely useless feature in the previous games as you were'nt punished for bodies being found anyway. Sure they could have implemented something for that, but I'm fine with it this way tbh.

Fistfighting/HB-fighting: Neither of these added anything to the game imo. It was just a different set of animations. If it was up to me Arno would only have a rapier in the game lol (with five more moves). Actual combat variety >>>>>>>>>> cosmetic combat variety.

Gentle push: Yeah these animations should be in the game imo. That said, they seem to have struggled like hell to get the crowds to function, perhaps it has something to do with that.

Whistle: You have a couple of other technques like cherrybombs and last known position. I dunno, I could go either way on this one.

Picking up weapons: Useless feature imo.


Overall I think Ubi has done a lot of great streamlining decisions. If it was up to me I would throw a lot more in the garbage bin :D!

But everything said is part of adapting to your environment as an Assassin, and for those that don't want to use it, don't have to. Having one freakin' weapon and going to the pause menu to swap them out is ridiculously lame.


Needing the whistle = newbie.

FACT!

Needing to know the true definition of a what a fact is = ignorant person.

FACT!

Megas_Doux
11-18-2014, 11:22 PM
Many of the ones complaining about the lack of the whistle are doing so because they find the game too hard and if anyone finds AC hard, well.......

Same for the difficulty of the combat, the lack of 84938403248209 shots with the phantom blade and being able to carry few weapons.....

MnemonicSyntax
11-18-2014, 11:24 PM
Many are complaining about the lack of the whistle is because they find the game too hard and if anyone finds AC hard, well.......

I don't find it hard. I would find it handy. I'm loving the new combat myself.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-18-2014, 11:27 PM
Needing the whistle = newbie.

FACT!

Rubbish. I've been playing Assassin's Creed for 7 years - I've played this game franchise for more time than I've invested in any other console game. So I am by definition NOT a newbie, and I've used whistle in every AC game that had it. Why? Because it works. So it can't be a fact that it's a newbie tool - it's a tool for anyone who wants to attract guards.

And ad hominem arguments (calling someone a newbie for using certain tools of the game) might make you feel good about yourself, but they're a childish way of making a point because they don't work. They don't work because you're failing to argue the point.

Megas_Doux
11-18-2014, 11:31 PM
Being serious, the game works fine without the whistle, it only takes for time.

In previous games the whitle was mandatory because the guards just stayed there, in Unity they patrol and thus, you can take them down...

pacmanate
11-18-2014, 11:37 PM
Needing the whistle = newbie.

FACT!

No, it's just practical. If I want to lure a guard i have to make them see me and check my last known location.

The fact that you just called me a Newbie I find kind of insulting.

Megas_Doux
11-19-2014, 12:34 AM
No, it's just practical. If I want to lure a guard i have to make them see me and check my last known location.

The fact that you just called me a Newbie I find kind of insulting.

My bad!

I should have not used that epithet, my apologies and that goes to anybody that feels the same.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-19-2014, 12:39 AM
Being serious, the game works fine without the whistle, it only takes for time. ...

Again, rubbish! I don't know what game you're playing , but AC: Unity doesn't "work fine" without the whistle, because nothing attracts guards to hiding spots. You can wait for hours in 90% of the hiding spots and you can throw cherry bombs and do anything else and no guard will come. And if you exit while a guard is looking, you can't go back in, because he sees you, so that doesn't work either.

Sure, you can kill guards in other ways than luring them to hiding spots, but that doesn't mean that the hiding spots work fine or the lures work fine - they don't, and because they don't, the game doesn't either. If the developers didn't mean for us to use hiding spots - if they meant them to be useless, why have them in the game at all?

I think you need to look up the definition of "fine" because, unless you think it means "horribly", you are in denial.

Sushiglutton
11-19-2014, 12:57 AM
But everything said is part of adapting to your environment as an Assassin, and for those that don't want to use it, don't have to. Having one freakin' weapon and going to the pause menu to swap them out is ridiculously lame.

Why would you use a pause menu when you only have a single weapon :rolleyes:




Again, rubbish! I don't know what game you're playing , but AC: Unity doesn't "work fine" without the whistle, because nothing attracts guards to hiding spots. You can wait for hours in 90% of the hiding spots and you can throw cherry bombs and do anything else and no guard will come. And if you exit while a guard is looking, you can't go back in, because he sees you, so that doesn't work either.

A stealth game can work fine without the ability to attract guards to hiding spots.



Sure, you can kill guards in other ways than luring them to hiding spots, but that doesn't mean that the hiding spots work fine or the lures work fine - they don't, and because they don't, the game doesn't either. If the developers didn't mean for us to use hiding spots - if they meant them to be useless, why have them in the game at all?

I dunno, maybe to hide in? The hiding spots have been in the franchise since AC1, the whistle since AC3.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-19-2014, 01:44 AM
A stealth game can work fine without the ability to attract guards to hiding spots.

Sure it can, but that's not the point, is it. As I said before, if they just wanted us to use them purely as hiding spots, why include the hiding spots in areas where guards aren't even looking and don't patrol?

At this point, your straw men are just making you seem dense. If you want to avoid the issue, you'd do better by not responding than by making up these ridiculous straw men.

LoyalACFan
11-19-2014, 01:51 AM
I'm actually OK with not having a whistle, it's just that the hiding spot kills just don't seem to work that well period. They have to be standing in the EXACT right spot for you to pull them in, and even then it sometimes doesn't work. I thought at first that maybe you were only allowed to hide one body per hiding spot and that's why I couldn't pull off haystack kills sometimes, but nope. It's finnicky even when the hiding spot's empty. Corner kills, however, work a little TOO well :p Very easy to end a chase by ducking around a corner and stabbing your pursuer as he comes around.

MnemonicSyntax
11-19-2014, 01:57 AM
Why would you use a pause menu when you only have a single weapon :rolleyes:
.

:rolleyes:

SixKeys
11-19-2014, 04:34 AM
I'm actually OK with not having a whistle, it's just that the hiding spot kills just don't seem to work that well period. They have to be standing in the EXACT right spot for you to pull them in, and even then it sometimes doesn't work. I thought at first that maybe you were only allowed to hide one body per hiding spot and that's why I couldn't pull off haystack kills sometimes, but nope. It's finnicky even when the hiding spot's empty. Corner kills, however, work a little TOO well :p Very easy to end a chase by ducking around a corner and stabbing your pursuer as he comes around.

I haven't had problems with hide spot assassinations not working, but there was one incident where I pulled a guard into a hiding door and Arno automatically exited after killing him. Good thing there wasn't another guard waiting just outside or I would have been detected. I don't remember that happening in AC4. I remember Edward was able to pull guards in and then exit manually.


Corner kills, however, work a little TOO well http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/tongue.png Very easy to end a chase by ducking around a corner and stabbing your pursuer as he comes around.

An old trick from the multiplayer (RIP). Run behind a corner and punch your pursuer in the face when they turn the corner. :o

Anykeyer
11-19-2014, 08:25 AM
Needing the whistle = newbie.

FACT!

LOL
Stealth in this game is super easy. You got superman vision and can magically change your appearance (even become a female, those who wanted female protagonist can rejoice) and walk almost anywhere.



An old trick from the multiplayer (RIP). Run behind a corner and punch your pursuer in the face when they turn the corner. http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/redface.png
Here you can repeat it multiple times in a row, easily getting a few cover kills, I think its unintended "feature" http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20130918.419/images/smilies/rolleyes.png

Sushiglutton
11-19-2014, 09:31 AM
Sure it can, but that's not the point, is it.

You said: "AC: Unity doesn't "work fine" without the whistle, because nothing attracts guards to hiding spots.".

To which I responded: "A stealth game can work fine without the ability to attract guards to hiding spots."


Do you see how these statements correspond?



As I said before, if they just wanted us to use them purely as hiding spots, why include the hiding spots in areas where guards aren't even looking and don't patrol?

Because this is an open-world game. You can attack guards and get into chase sequences almost anywhere. So the world needs to have a certain hide-spot density. This has been the case since AC1. Not sure why it suddenly angers you so.



At this point, your straw men are just making you seem dense. If you want to avoid the issue, you'd do better by not responding than by making up these ridiculous straw men.

Maybe tone down the aggression a notch?




:rolleyes:

I was being serious though :). I just want one rapier. No upgrades, no customization, nothing.

MnemonicSyntax
11-19-2014, 03:29 PM
I was being serious though :). I just want one rapier. No upgrades, no customization, nothing.


Oh I know you were. I rolled my eyes because even with disarming, weapon switching, picking up weapons off the ground and giving other people that want, you know, options, you can still have your single rapier and not upgrade.

SenseHomunculus
11-19-2014, 04:18 PM
It's actually a good thing they left it out. In previous games guns were not even a threat because of it, basically handed out a free kill to you if anyone did try and shoot you. With it gone things are more challenging and for the better.

Like any other feature, if you don't want to use it, you simply don't use it. That's good in your case, you just don't use human shield if you think it makes it too easy. But I'd prefer to have the option to use it and my issue is that it's now gone. Just following up on the OP.

SenseHomunculus
11-19-2014, 04:28 PM
Human shield never worked well for me. It was extremely hit and miss. I don't miss such a clumsy mechanic.

Really? Huh. I don't think I recall any time it NOT working for me when I wanted to use it. When the icon appears, I hit the button and instant human shield.

wvstolzing
11-19-2014, 05:03 PM
I really miss the side-jump; especially when you run up to a wall, and then jump sideways to grab a ledge you wouldn't otherwise be able to reach. I used to use that all the time.

SenseHomunculus
11-19-2014, 05:39 PM
I really miss the side-jump; especially when you run up to a wall, and then jump sideways to grab a ledge you wouldn't otherwise be able to reach. I used to use that all the time.

I liked that mechanic, too. It's not needed now unfortunately because Arno has super-human jumping capabilities. And I don't mean that in a good way.

wvstolzing
11-19-2014, 05:52 PM
I liked that mechanic, too. It's not needed now unfortunately because Arno has super-human jumping capabilities. And I don't mean that in a good way.

I can't help but think that the unreasonably extended forward leap is an oversight/glitch/bug/whatever; because that's really what it feels like. It happens only on certain circumstances (can't really describe right now, but when jumping from the edge of a certain type of roof, on to a certain type of surface), and the animation doesn't even look like it fits; for a moment the character model looks like a cheat mode has been turned on.

It reminds me of the way the speed-boost dragon shout looks, in Skyrim's awful 3rd-person view.

I'm really hoping (though probably in vain) that leap to be 'nerfed' a little in one of the upcoming patches; along with (maybe a little less in vain) responsiveness issues with the DS4.

itzrayen22
11-21-2014, 08:58 AM
Ok, I admit I only read the first few pages, so maybe I missed a post to the contrrary, but:

I'm not sure why everyone is saying guards don't investigate bodies, because they definitely do. I have died way to many times to this to thinik otherwise. Sure, they don't *instantly*, and it depends on how close they are / whether their path causes them to look in the direction of the body. And guess what? After they finish investigating the body, they try to find the killer. Granted, there are perhaps some guards on such tight "paths" (such as guarding a window) they won't ever notice, but many do.

As a disclaimer, this is on PC and at least after Patch 2. I can not speak for other platforms, and while I'd hope such a fundumental aspect of AC would be consistant, at this point I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't

Anykeyer
11-21-2014, 09:04 AM
They never check hiding places. They never follow a direction you was going when they lost you. They just wander around your last known position for a few secs. Police guards dont react in any way to crimes commited by extremists right before their eyes. But they do investigate the body a few seconds after extremist leaves and act like they wasnt here when it happened.
Its the dumbest AC AI yet.

SixKeys
11-21-2014, 12:11 PM
They never check hiding places. They never follow a direction you was going when they lost you. They just wander around your last known position for a few secs. Police guards dont react in any way to crimes commited by extremists right before their eyes. But they do investigate the body a few seconds after extremist leaves and act like they wasnt here when it happened.
Its the dumbest AC AI yet.

This stuff bothers me as well. I wouldn't say it's the stupidest, just no smarter than before which is disappointing. "Last known position" is a good idea, but it doesn't seem to actually affect gameplay in any meaningful way, other than distracting guards for a few secs. I was detected during an infiltration mission and quickly jumped into a haybale. My "shadow" was literally right next to the haybale and the guard who followed me never even got close enough to the cart for me to assassinate him. He just stared at this haybale with my silhouette leading right into it, going: "Gosh, where could he have gone??"

Farlander1991
11-21-2014, 12:35 PM
They never check hiding places.

They do. Somebody found me in a haystack >_<


They never follow a direction you was going when they lost you.

That's true, but their search area is actually fairly wide. I went on the street on another side of the building and one of the guards went to search for me on that street.


Police guards dont react in any way to crimes commited by extremists right before their eyes.

I've seen plenty of times when policemen attacked/started chsing extremists because of their crimes. A couple of times I've seen them chasing after normal thieves too (though they do that only if they see the act of theft).

AI could definitely use improvement, but I was actually very impressed with it in comparison to most of the previous games.

Anykeyer
11-21-2014, 02:16 PM
This stuff bothers me as well. I wouldn't say it's the stupidest, just no smarter than before which is disappointing. "Last known position" is a good idea, but it doesn't seem to actually affect gameplay in any meaningful way, other than distracting guards for a few secs. I was detected during an infiltration mission and quickly jumped into a haybale. My "shadow" was literally right next to the haybale and the guard who followed me never even got close enough to the cart for me to assassinate him. He just stared at this haybale with my silhouette leading right into it, going: "Gosh, where could he have gone??"
BTW ACU doesnt allow you to kill alerted targets from hiding places. I learned this the hard way in a mission with "2 kills from hiding places" challenge (and ofc gave it 2 stars). At the same time you can assassinate them from cover...
In previous games soldiers used to run in the same direction you did when they last saw you. Here they do nothing. Like you climb a wall, grab kill one guy, others detect you, and all you have to do to "vanish" is just wait. they will never even try to look behind that wall.


They do. Somebody found me in a haystack >_<
Really? I tried hiding from various enemy types and top "diamonds" rating to be sure. They never checked.


I've seen plenty of times when policemen attacked/started chsing extremists because of their crimes. A couple of times I've seen them chasing after normal thieves too (though they do that only if they see the act of theft)
Dunno, I've completed about 300 crowd events and not a single time police tried to do their job instead of killing me for interfering.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-21-2014, 03:51 PM
I'm not sure why everyone is saying guards don't investigate bodies, because they definitely do.

I think probably some people haven't played the game since the latest patch, which fixed the guards' seeming unwillingness to go searching for Arno.