PDA

View Full Version : The Official MC.202 (and some more) Whiners Thread



Pages : [1] 2

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:00 PM
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC202_taxing.jpg

So, while waiting for your subscriptions to this thread to make the MC.202 Folgore flyable, let's start to whine also about its "big cousin", the FIAT G.55 Centauro:

http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-FIAT_G55_field.jpg

This one had the 1,500 HP DB605 engine license-built by FIAT (something like Mustang's Rolls-Royce Merlin produced by Packard), three MG151/20 cannons plus two 12.7 mm MGs.
It could carry some little bombs and speed at 640 km/h at 6,000 m and, as all italian fighters, was very maneuvrable.
Sort of Bf109G-2 with more guns. Sounds good! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-Macchi-Castoldi_MC205picc.jpg

The Official MC.202-205 and G.55 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:00 PM
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC202_taxing.jpg

So, while waiting for your subscriptions to this thread to make the MC.202 Folgore flyable, let's start to whine also about its "big cousin", the FIAT G.55 Centauro:

http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-FIAT_G55_field.jpg

This one had the 1,500 HP DB605 engine license-built by FIAT (something like Mustang's Rolls-Royce Merlin produced by Packard), three MG151/20 cannons plus two 12.7 mm MGs.
It could carry some little bombs and speed at 640 km/h at 6,000 m and, as all italian fighters, was very maneuvrable.
Sort of Bf109G-2 with more guns. Sounds good! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-Macchi-Castoldi_MC205picc.jpg

The Official MC.202-205 and G.55 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:07 PM
Naw, i want Reggiane 2005 whiner.
Most manuverable plane, more than G55 or 205, could turn with mc200 and re2001 and out turn a spitfire.
Very fast, quick acceleration, very tight turns, same guns as G55, carry 160kg bombs.. .etc.. i want em all! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
G55 was more high alt interceptor, Re2005 was medium superiority fighter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/1041.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:09 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Naw, i want Reggiane 2005 whiner.
- Most manuverable plane, more than G55 or 205, could
- turn with mc200 and re2001 and out turn a spitfire.
- Very fast, quick acceleration, very tight turns,
- same guns as G55, carry 160kg bombs.. .etc.. i want
- em all! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



ME TOO, of course!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
But I didn't care to ask!!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-Macchi-Castoldi_MC205picc.jpg

The Official MC.202/205 and G.55 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:13 PM
With a North Italian map it would be great have a Maddox Fiat G 55 fliable. Re 2005 is another great fighter of serie 5 but only 29 were in service.

MC 205 and G 55 fought very hard against allied fighter and bombers.

Probably we'll have soon (i hope) MC 205 fliable with, i believe, a Maddox 3D model. dux-1 and Mined are working on cockpit and it's very good.

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:18 PM
Yes i know about the 205, can't wait for it!
I think around 115 G55 and 375 205 were made correct?
Hard to find exact numbers, the books i have contain conflicting numbers!
I have read 35 produced of Re2005, no big difference though.

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/1041.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:20 PM
I mreally want this though.... yum

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/MC200_2.jpg


---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/1041.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:23 PM
G55

http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/fiat/fiat_g55-archivio_ami01.jpg

G56

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/fiat_g56_mm537_set44_torino.jpg



http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:24 PM
For my opinion, Radek is the best modeller.

Really a fantastic model.

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:28 PM
Yeah Veltro, no word on the cockpit though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Its not much different than 202 cockpit maybe when thats done can graft it over to 200.


Color photo of G55.. really nice! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/g55.jpg


---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:33 PM
Yes pdog...........really a fantastic bird.

That's incredible: in a few years FIAT passed from CR 42 and G 50 (orrible) to the G 55, one of the best WW2 fighter (i know, with german power).

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:35 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Yeah Veltro, no word on the cockpit though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
- Its not much different than 202 cockpit maybe when
- thats done can graft it over to 200.

Mc 200 is great but now where is Radek?

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:37 PM
The Sai 403 didn't use a german engine did it?
Very fast plane for a wooden contruction. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 05:48 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- The Sai 403 didn't use a german engine did it?
- Very fast plane for a wooden contruction. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-

Yes but FIAT failed in the development of a "fighting engine". The engines for the speed's record, for ex., have a very short life; they don't need more than some hours.

A figthing engine had to work for a lot of time.

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 06:08 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Yes i know about the 205, can't wait for it!
- I think around 115 G55 and 375 205 were made
- correct?
- Hard to find exact numbers, the books i have contain
- conflicting numbers!
- I have read 35 produced of Re2005, no big difference
- though.


Some numbers and some history from my source :

FIAT G.55: Having a raised cockpit providing an excellent view, being fast and manoeuvrable and heavily armed, the G.55 proved popular with its pilots.
274 G.55/I were produced before wartime ended, plus 16 G.55/0 pre-production and 15 G.55/I initial production. Further 37 were abandoned at an advanced construction stage. Total: 342.

Macchi-Castoldi M.C.202: Undoubtedly the best wartime figher to serve in large numbers with the Regia Aeronautica, they played a significant role in the defence of Sicily and southern Italy against bombing attacks launched by the USAF, but were less effective as attrition had reduced the total number available.
A total of about 1,500 M.C.202 were built when production ended in 1943.

Macchi-Castoldi M.C.205: Regarded as the best Italian fighter of the war, the Veltro was capable of meeting on equal terms such renowned fighters as the North American P-51 Mustang, a capability which encouraged the Luftwaffe to use a number of these aircraft to equip one Gruppe.
256 M.C.205 were produced.

Reggiane Re.2005: Many observers considered the Re.2005 the most beautiful fighter of the WWII.
Only 48 Re.2005 ever came off the assembly line before the armistice was signed and production halted.

http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-Macchi-Castoldi_MC205picc.jpg

The Official MC.202/205 and G.55 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 06:13 PM
Cippacometa wrote:
-
- pdog1 wrote:
-- Yes i know about the 205, can't wait for it!
-- I think around 115 G55 and 375 205 were made
-- correct?
-- Hard to find exact numbers, the books i have contain
-- conflicting numbers!
-- I have read 35 produced of Re2005, no big difference
-- though.
-
-
- Some numbers and some history from my source :
-
- FIAT G.55: Having a raised cockpit providing an
- excellent view, being fast and manoeuvrable and
- heavily armed, the G.55 proved popular with its
- pilots.
- 274 G.55/I were produced before wartime ended, plus
- 16 G.55/0 pre-production and 15 G.55/I initial
- production. Further 37 were abandoned at an advanced
- construction stage. Total: 342.
-
- Macchi-Castoldi M.C.202: Undoubtedly the best
- wartime figher to serve in large numbers with the
- Regia Aeronautica, they played a significant role in
- the defence of Sicily and southern Italy against
- bombing attacks launched by the USAF, but were less
- effective as attrition had reduced the total number
- available.
- A total of about 1,500 M.C.202 were built when
- production ended in 1943.
-
- Macchi-Castoldi M.C.205: Regarded as the best
- Italian fighter of the war, the Veltro was capable
- of meeting on equal terms such renowned fighters as
- the North American P-51 Mustang, a capability which
- encouraged the Luftwaffe to use a number of these
- aircraft to equip one Gruppe.
- 256 M.C.205 were produced.
-
- Reggiane Re.2005: Many observers considered the
- Re.2005 the most beautiful fighter of the WWII.
- Only 48 Re.2005 ever came off the assembly line
- before the armistice was signed and production
- halted.
-

Thank you!

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 06:25 PM
Veltro wrote:
- Thank you!
-
You're welcome!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Need more?
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg

The only surviving flightworthy MC.205 Veltro</p>

The Official MC.202/205 and G.55 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 07:44 PM
Yes more would be nice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have some own info here comparing G55 to Re2005 and Re2005 history.

I have some info here comparing g55 to re2005 and history of re2005.

Re2005 had the best turning ability of any 1942-43 Italian fighter at all altitudes (mock fight test demonstrated that it was far superior to both g55 and c205 in turning, and it was even able to turn with c200 and re2001...which were very light and maneuvrable earlier italian planes)

G55 was a good turner as well, but more like the c205

G55 climbed better (almost like c205)

Re2005 dived better than any other italian fighters (up to 980 kph, but u couldnt use rudder a lot during dives)

G55 had the same armament, 2x12.7mm and 3x20mm but carried 100 more rounds in the nose cannon (250 instead of 150)

Re2005 was slightly faster in level flight

G55 had better handling over 20000 feet

Re2005 had superior flight characteristics at lower altitudes (it was projected as a frontline airsuperiority fighterbomber, differently from the G55 wich was a point defence interceptor with good high altitude characteristics)

Re2005 had superior flight characteristics at lower speeds: had a very good acceleration at lower speeds (wing profile was way more thin!), had a nice stall and stalled at a lower speeds, recovery from spins and autorotation was easier and quicker thanks to its big rudder control surface.

Re2005 payload was also a fighterbomber, with a good payload too: Two wing hardpoints for 353lb/ 160kg of bombs. It obtained several successes against road convoys and landing troops in Sicily.

Re2005 had a longer range also, it carried three droptanks: a single central 240 liter tank and two 100 liter wing tanks.

G55 had a shorter range it could carry 2 drop 100 liters

The Re2005 was defined by many as "the most beautiful fighter of the axis".
In fact, the Sagittario was a really beautiful airplane, with a clean and fascinating shape,but moreover it had exceptional flying charaterisics, very powerful armament and exceptional handling.

It was "the fighter" but it was limited by a slow production during the war, also due to the american bombing runs over the Reggiane factory.
However the Re 2005 could fight in the most difficult and important scenario of the Italian war, giving evidence to its good qualities.

Main data
Engine One 1,475 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 V-12 inline liquid-cooled piston.
Dimensions: Span: 36 ft 1 in / 11 m.
Length: 28 ft 7 3/4 in / 8.73 m.
Height: 10 ft 4 in / 3.15 m.
Wing area: 219.58 sq ft / 20.4 m2.
Weights: Empty: 5,732 lb / 2,600 kg.
Maximum: 7,960 lb / 3,610 kg.
Max speed: 390.5 mph at 22,800 ft / 628.5 kph at 6,950 m
Cruise speed: 320 mph / 515 kph
climb rate: Time to
6,560 ft / 2,000 m: 1 min 55 sec
13,120 ft / 4000 m: 4 min 28 sec
19,685 ft / 6,000 m: 6 min 33 sec

Max dive speed 582 mph /988 kph
Service ceiling: 37,730 ft / 11,500 m
Range: 1600 miles / 1000 km with 3 drop tanks (int. fuel only: 646 miles)

Armament:
Two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 350 rounds each in upper engine cowling.
One 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 150 rounds firing through propellor hub.
Two 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 200 rounds each in wings.
Up to 2,200 lb / 1,000 kg bomb or fuel tank under fuselage.
Two wing hardpoints for 353lb/160 kg of bombs.
Or three droptanks, a single central 240 liter tank and two 100 liter wing tanks.

General Vittorio Minguzzi
(RE2005 top ace with 6 victories):
"all the series 5 fighters (Macchi 205,Fiat G55 and Re 2005) were competitive with the best allies fighters.The Re 2005 in particular is the best in handling".
"I longly flew Spitfires after the armistice* and i can say without any doubt that Re2005 was equal if not superior to them in tight turns dogfight"
*Spit mkV and mkIX in service with Cobeligerent Italian Airforce

Tullio De Prato (most celebrated italian test pilot): "The Re2005 diving abilities were astonishing, it could achieve a speed of more than 900 kph in few seconds."
"I was very pleased to note that even with this armament it retained the turning characteristics of the prototype, wich were registered as equal to the Re2001 and mc200"

EW Bridges of 93 Squadron RAF (whose Spitfire mkVIII was shot down by a RE2005): : "I tried to shake the fighter from my tail: sharp climbing turn, split S, violent downward spyral, no way. I saw tracers running around my head all the time, felt hits several times. The aircraft was badly shoot up, I barely managed to roll it with loose stick and bale out at low altitude"


In Action:
The 22nd Autonomous Group led by Major Vittorio Minguzzi was the only one to make operational use of the RE 2005. It received a total of 36 aircrafts per month. The totally dedicated crews and pilots of the 22nd allowed the Sagittario to see far wider and more successfull operational service than the Fiat G.55 in the period before the Italian armistice. The RE 2005 were frequently scrambled against 9th Air Force B-24s and often claimed victories. The aircraft were concentrated in the 362' Squadriglia, based at Naples-Capodichifla under Capt. Germano La Ferla. After an allied bombing on 4 April that damaged this airfield, the unit began dispersing its aircraft on nearby Capua airfield.
The first 362' Squadriglia Sagittario was MM.494, fresh from gunnery trials at Furbara and immediately used for several interceptions, On 2 April 1943, twenty Italian fighters caught a B-24 formation just off lschia and claimed two victories, one of which attributed to Minguzzi in the RE 2005 prototype. "The Sagittario dominated the situation in every respect," wrote the pilot in a report for the 3' Squadra which provides a vivid description of the powerful improvement over previous types."The aircraft is in ideal flying conditions at an altitude of 7000-7500 meters and can make repeated attacks on American heavy bombers in all positions and from all directions. 1...] 1 can therefore say that the speed and handling qualities are excellent even at 7000 meters and that compared to the Macchi 202, the Sagittario made two attacks in the time required by the Macchi 202 for a single pass. It is however necessary to conserve ammunition, because the fact that the Sagittario can keep a firing solution longer means that ammunition is depleted much faster." Forced to return u'ith his engine out, Minguzzi made a difficult landing in the dark, and it is possible that it was this episode which showed the need to fit a landing light under the left wing. The request reached the company and the light was installed on all Reggianes on May.

Between 10-12 April, the Italian Reggianes again fought well. On 10 April, a RE 2005 formation clashed with the USAAF bombers. Lt. Giulio Torresi, who had made his first RE 2005 flight just the day before, claimed a B-24 individually plus three shared. The next
day, two more B-24s were claimed by maresciallo Marcello Baccarh and Lt. Armando Moresi, whose aircraft MM.092343 was shot down. Moresi survived and was picked up by a trawler. On the 12th, maresciallo Tullio Arduini damaged a B-24.
The lack of success of the following days was compensated by the air battle of 28 April. To prevent the defenders from concentrating their fire on a single fighter, attacks were made information agaihst areas not protected by defensive turrets. Minguzzi, Donati, Torresi and a fourth pilot claimed two Liberators.
On 29 May, the 22nd Group deployed to. The entire unit scrambled on 25 June, but noachieving much, but the next day four aircraft were damaged on the ground by an enemy air raid.
Anticipating the imminent invasion of Sicily, on 2 July the 362' deployed to Catania with about ten RE 2005, virtually all that existed. The squadron lacked all logistic and tactical support, but it fought well.
The first day of fighting, July 11, immediately showed that the battle would be fought uphill. Lt Dilissano and his aircraft were lost in circumstances unclear to this day, while Torresi claimed one Spitfire shot down confirmed and one probable. In the afternoon, five RE 2005 clashed with Spitfires, possibly from 111st Squadron, losing Lt. Luigi Nitolia while Lt. Enrico Salvi managed to return with his aircraft damaged. The three survivors, La Ferla, Arduini and Lt. Vaghi, claimed one Spitfire each.

The fight went on alternating ground attacks, scrambles and road strafing, on 13 July Torresi shot down over Catania airfield a Spitfire which was attacking Lt. Vaghi's aircraft. This Spitfire (ES282 of 93 Squadron). It was flown by a New Zealander, EW Bridges, who was captured but managed to escape. Two days later, hunger led him to surrender again to his captors, but he escaped again and rejoined his unit on 24 July.
Although the 362nd took off again from the surviving Fontanarossa, Sigonella and the Finocchiara airstrips, it soon found it impossible to operate effectively. Thus on 14 July La Ferla decided to send his ground crews back, while the last airworthy RE 2005 were flown back by Arduini and Sgt Major Lucio Biagini. Oral accounts say that both fighters were on Reggio Calabria, where they had been taken on by the 371k Squadriglia. The British found five wrecks at Catania, including MM.494/362-4, 092346/362-3 and 092354/362-1, 362-7, wich were destroyed on the ground by air raids.e

Of the three aircraft scrambled on 21 August, MM.096101 (flown by Biagini, now with the 35 Squadriglia) returned with its rear fuselage severely damaged. On 25 August, three 362" and a single 369" machine were scrambled, but Lt Dario Signorini was brought down near Piedimonte D'Alife by a formidable tailplane vibration while flying MM.092356. The aircraft was lost, but the pilot made a successful parachute jump despite becoming unconscious.
After this two episodes, the RE 2005 fleet was grounded and two S.82 transports flew back to Reggio Emilia the two fuselages with structural damage.

On 25 August De Prato carried out test dives at Guidonia. He then flew the aircraft, possibly MM.096101, back to Reggio Emilia where three more dives were made on 27, 29 and 31 August. According to De Prato's 1950 account, the tests concluded that the "shaking" began at 660 kph true air speed and that they were caused by inadequate dynamic balancing of the empennage, the ballance was probably lost during full excursion rudder maneuvers performed by the pilots during dives. After correcting the ballancing, De Prato dived the aircraft to 988 kph TAS, convincing himself that the structure of the RE 2005 was fully capable of pulling g's, but that trouble arose when "such problems were caused due to the uncontrolled maneuvers necessary in war situations."
In other words " Our pilots were used to small rudder control surfaces, such those of Maccis and Messershmitts,with such aircrafts full excursion rudder movements were not a problem the rudder freely during dives.
The VNE (velocity to be not exceded) with rudder extended left or right of more than half course was calculated at around 800 kph.
On 8 September, the day of the Italian armistice, SUPERAEREO ordered the 22nd Group (by now equipped with a mix of RE2005s and RE2001s) and other units to provide air cover for the fleet which would leave La Spezia at night "with the anticipated schedule and route marked in brown" on a map sent out already on 26 August. Things went differently and 22nd Group pilots ended up destroying their own aircraft to avoid capture by the Germans.
By the way some other Reggiane 2005 from other Squadriglie survived, some more were produced for the Germans, ANR and Romanian airforce: the 2005s were to be seen again.
Re 2005s saw service with the ANR (northern Italy's fascist airforce) in 1943/44, while about 15 were used by the Germans of Fliegerzielstaffel 20 from June to December 1944. It has been reported by several sources that this aircrafts were used in combat over Berlin, Bucharest and Ploesti, having the Luftwaffe enough aircrafts and spareparts to fully equip one Staffel. The Sagittario was higly rated by the Germans, wich even considered undertaking production by their own after the destruction of the Reggiane factories in 1944.



---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 07:48 PM
pdog do you have pictures with that mc200 modelled for FB showing the front of the aircraft, with the radial engine details? Please post the pictures from il2center forum, if you have them.

Do you know who was the modeller: radek? did he planed a cockpit for mc200 too?


<center> http://www.stormbirds.com/images/discussion-main.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 07:59 PM
I don't know man, wish i knew, someone asked about him over at the netwings.org forum, nothing haven't heard from him.
No front shot either.

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 08:32 PM
Minchia!

Grazie pdog!

http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 08:44 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Yes more would be nice. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- I have some own info here comparing G55 to Re2005
- and Re2005 history.
-
- I have some info here comparing g55 to re2005 and
- history of re2005.


Emmecojoni!
Thanx a lot pdog1!

To make a quick summary:
Re.2005: The Dancer
G.55: The Big Gun Boy
M.C.205: The Equilibrated One

...sort of...


http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg

The only surviving flightworthy MC.205 Veltro</p>

The Official MC.202/205 and G.55 Whiner</p>

dux-1
09-04-2003, 08:55 PM
Hi guys, I've passed this morning the first chunk of the 205V to Mined for texturing.. We'll have some new shots soon..
I was thinking to start the Centauro.. (many guns...)

S!

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 09:09 PM
dux-1 wrote:
- Hi guys, I've passed this morning the first chunk of
- the 205V to Mined for texturing.. We'll have some
- new shots soon..
- I was thinking to start the Centauro.. (many
- guns...)
-
- S!
-
Really?!?!?!

http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg

The only surviving flightworthy MC.205 Veltro</p>

The Official MC.202/205 and G.55 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 09:59 PM
Good idea!
Wait a minute!! There was a guy some months ago who was modeling the RE 2005.... the model looked great and Hammerd (yes, Hammerd) was working on the textures.... does anybody know if that project is still alive? that RE looked almost finished to me....

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 10:04 PM
yes, i'm gonna post some pics veeery soon

Davide

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 10:06 PM
ITA-Joker- wrote:
- Good idea!
- Wait a minute!! There was a guy some months ago who
- was modeling the RE 2005.... the model looked great
- and Hammerd (yes, Hammerd) was working on the
- textures.... does anybody know if that project is
- still alive? that RE looked almost finished to
- me....


Where did you see them??
Please tell me!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>


I AM NOT GOING TO INSTALL 1.1 "FINAL" PATCH</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 10:21 PM
a 1 day work. ( textures...not final in some parts )

http://mined86.free.fr/evvai4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 10:29 PM
Great job!
And keep up the good work!


Cippacometa wrote:

- Where did you see them??
- Please tell me!

At il2center, some months ago..... but now that site doesnt work.... try to ask to Hammerd.... he may know something about that....

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 11:51 PM
ITA-Joker- wrote:
- Great job!
- And keep up the good work!

Yeah, it is indeed!

- At il2center, some months ago..... but now that site
- doesnt work.... try to ask to Hammerd.... he may
- know something about that....

Ok, I'll try to contact him...

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>


I AM NOT GOING TO INSTALL 1.1 "FINAL" PATCH</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:08 AM
Can't till thats done Mined, great job you and dux. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:19 AM
What you are looking for from Hammerd?

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:22 AM
Flyable Mirage 2000-5 for LOMAC

Nic

http://www.randomhouse.com/kids/art/authorphoto/cookie.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:23 AM
pdog1 wrote:
- What you are looking for from Hammerd?
-

ITA-Joker says that Hammerd is modelling the Re.2005...

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>


I AM NOT GOING TO INSTALL 1.1 "FINAL" PATCH</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:25 AM
Cippacometa wrote:
-

-
- ITA-Joker says that Hammerd is modelling the
- Re.2005...
-



Wooooah, very nice... the Tempest needs a real plane to get its butt whiped, the Re2005 is perfect choice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:25 AM
Hey, we have been infested by the blue cookie-monster-balster-worm!!!
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nicolas10 wrote:
- Flyable Mirage 2000-5 for LOMAC
-

Yes, if you read how it flied, Re.2005 was a Mirage 2000-5 !!!!!!!!
Well... sort of!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>


I AM NOT GOING TO INSTALL 1.1 "FINAL" PATCH</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:28 AM
- nicolas10 wrote:
-- Flyable Mirage 2000-5 for LOMAC
--
-
-

Thats it MIRAGE... thats what the blue buy is seeing... all illusions... stop taking Paxil!

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:30 AM
Ive been wanted to fly the MC-202 since I first saw it in IL-2, this game needs some flyable Italian planes, they are very worthy fighters. Even though I sport a Sabre flowed by the Blonde Knight of Germany (Erich Hartmann), I support your call for Italian Planes.

http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.


Message Edited on 09/04/0304:30PM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 12:40 AM
Wetwilly87 wrote:
- Ive been wanted to fly the MC-202 since I first saw
- it in IL-2, this game needs some flyable Italian
- planes, they are very worthy fighters. Even though I
- sport a Sabre flowed by the Blonde Knight of Germany
- (Erich Hartmann), I support your call for Italian
- Planes.

Thanx Wetwilly.
And why not the I.A.R.80/81 and some French ones?
The more the better!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>


I AM NOT GOING TO INSTALL 1.1 "FINAL" PATCH</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 01:01 AM
IAR81 is done, waiting for "addon".
I would also love a D.520 also. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 01:46 AM
A
pdog1 wrote:
- IAR81 is done, waiting for "addon".
- I would also love a D.520 also. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Good!
At this point, as I said some time ago, let's then ask for IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Schneider's Cup Racers !!!!!!!!!!!!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>


OK, MAYBE I AM GOING TO INSTALL 1.1 "FINAL" PATCH</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 04:42 AM
Huh?
The D.520 is a great french plane, actually looks nice and performs well... and some captures ones were used by Regia Aeronautica too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 05:35 AM
I know thier going to put the IAR in, but I hope they make the IAR version with the 6 MG's or the cannon fighter version one, because those 4 mg's dont cut it, trust me ive survived three IAR's entire ammo sypply, and still got away with minor damages in my FW-190

http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:35 AM
Wetwilly87 wrote:
- I know thier going to put the IAR in, but I hope
- they make the IAR version with the 6 MG's or the
- cannon fighter version one, because those 4 mg's
- dont cut it, trust me ive survived three IAR's
- entire ammo sypply, and still got away with minor
- damages in my FW-190

Mmm... This makes me think that, once we'll have a flyable MC202 with its 4 small guns, we'll see some whines about its ineffectiveness... That's why I directly asked for G.55: with its 3 MG151/20 it can wipe out many stuff!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Now:
I have some questions about italian fighters' canopy.
It looks like the late series (2 and 5) had more or less the same canopy. See the pictures of a Re.2005 and of a MC.205.
Is it really exactly the same standard for all, or did they just look similar?
Second question: it seems that when the glass canopy was closed, the back remained open, since the shape of the "hump" (gobba) of the fuselage did not match that of the glass canopy. That was good for South Italy and North Afica temperatures, but... what about those flying in winter on the Alps? The question is: was there a system to close the back of the cabin? Like some amovible glass or what? I have seen a couple of MC202 and 205 in museums and expositions and, if I remember well, the back was open.
Any info about that?

Re.2005
http://www.uploadit.org/files/050903-Reggiane_Re2005_3.jpg

MC205V
http://www.uploadit.org/files/050903-Macchi-Castoldi_MC205_15.jpg

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:41 AM
Cippa, Africa or Alps, if you go above 5000 mt it's cold anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
They had no pressurized cockpit AFAIK but they obviously had the oxygen mask.

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:51 AM
Abraxa wrote:
- Cippa, Africa or Alps, if you go above 5000 mt it's
- cold anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
- They had no pressurized cockpit AFAIK but they
- obviously had the oxygen mask.

Yeah, I know that @>5000 m it's cold everywhere !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
But, at lower altitudes, it's different between Sicily and Alps, exp on summer. And, AFAIK too, no, they didn't have pressurized cockpit (only very few WW2 planes had, and often didn't work wery well).

My question was just about... "design" ?
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:56 AM
the canopy design looks really similar but honestly i don't know if it was identical.
All the 5 series fighters seem to have that little point of "light" between the canopy and the fuselage.

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 01:31 PM
Abraxa wrote:

- All the 5 series fighters seem to have that little
- point of "light" between the canopy and the
- fuselage.

I've found the reason: it was to let out the smoke of pilots' "Toscano" cigars!!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 02:35 PM
" Tullio De Prato (most celebrated italian test pilot): "The Re2005 diving abilities were astonishing, it could achieve a speed of more than 900 kph in few seconds."
"I was very pleased to note that even with this armament it retained the turning characteristics of the prototype, wich were registered as equal to the Re2001 and mc200"

Sorry, IMHO, no way a fighter like the Re.2005 could maneuver like a C.200 or a Re.2001. Gross weight, wing area, wing load, corner speed .... you know what I mean?

Be careful when you report performance data coming from italian manuals, pilot reports and so called "official" flight manuals.

Two groups from two different online sims have got crazy trying to get reliable data for italian fighters, even from former Macchi engineers.

Saetta aka Gatt
4?Stormo Caccia
http://www.4stormo.it

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 03:53 PM
Maybe not as tight as mc200 but tighter than spitfire. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
About the Macchi 202 guns, most of them only carried the 2x17.mm mgs, the wing guns were rarely used.
Maybe thats why Oleg wants 205 first, 2xMG151. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 04:22 PM
Saetta wrote:
- Two groups from two different online sims have got
- crazy trying to get reliable data for italian
- fighters, even from former Macchi engineers.

Saetta, can you be more precise about this information?
I mean, do you have any link or any doc about these data on italian fighters?
Final question: what do you mean with "Two groups from two different online sims"? Maybe AH and WB3? (at least on AH I know there are both 202 and 205).
Thanks!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 05:17 PM
There is also 202/205 in WB also.
I couldn't get much into AH either... the cockpits are all wrong and look so nasty lol.

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 05:33 PM
hmm. they may fly nice but italian fighters are THE ugliest planes of the war. of any country. Gluteus Maximus ugly~!

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 06:40 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- hmm. they may fly nice but italian fighters are THE
- ugliest planes of the war. of any country. Gluteus
- Maximus ugly~!


MMHUA MHUA MMHUAAAAAAAHHAHA!!!

One with ugly fat Jug as an oversized signature speaking about planes' aesthetic!!

ROFLOL !!!

I'll add nothing, the "Jug" speaks for itself!
Not to mention the "Cat family" (Wildcat, Hellcat) of fat ugly heavy flying barrles... MHUHUA MUHAHAHAAAAAAAA MHHUAAAAH!!

By the way, "de gustibus non est disputandum..."
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

Message Edited on 09/05/0306:42PM by Cippacometa

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 07:47 PM
Some of the early ones can be ugly but the later ones including Series 5 are anything but ugly... you want ugly planes look at some French ones but D.520 is the exception to that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 09:59 PM
Only infidels let this thread fall down to page 2.

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-05-2003, 11:54 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Only infidels let this thread fall down to page 2.
-
----------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg
-


So, BUMP!!!!



Fhr. Barkhorn, I/JG52 "Luftwaffe Brasil"
LBR=Barhorn in HL

http://www.coltec.ufmg.br/~moc/phpBB2/templates/Aeolus/images/logo_phpBB.gif


Ich bin ein LuftWhinner!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 12:39 AM
Haha

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 01:25 AM
Can anyone else be a Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner?

Oh well i would like to be Offical Fiat G50/Mc200 whiner anyway. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/Macchiubi.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 01:48 AM
Test........

---------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg


The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 12:27 PM
The Mc 205 was a nice plane /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.regiaaeronautica.it/immagini/aerei/caccia/mc205_4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 01:29 PM
Ahh the Fiat G55 Centauro, that takes me back to my CFS 2 and 1% aircraft days.Used to love flying her and knocking Mustangs outta the sky with it's 3 20mm cannons.
Love the clean lines of the Re.2005 aswell, she looks like she can certainly hold her own.
Not too sure about the rather light weapons on the C.202 & C.205 though. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Here's to having some Italian flyable birds ingame. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 02:04 PM
Well, the Mc 205 Veltro was equipped with two Mg-151/20 20mm and two 12,7 mm heavy machine gun /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DeerHunterUK wrote:
- Not too sure about the rather light weapons on the
- C.202 & C.205

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 04:39 PM
ITA-Joker- wrote:
- Well, the Mc 205 Veltro was equipped with two
- Mg-151/20 20mm and two 12,7 mm heavy machine gun

I'll take that version then. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif But where were the 20mm cannons on the Veltro? I've got 2 conflicting sources, 1 saying underneath the wing in gunpods and the other says in the wingroot.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

Message Edited on 09/06/0304:48PM by DeerHunterUK

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 04:43 PM
ITA-Joker- wrote:
- Well, the Mc 205 Veltro was equipped with two
- Mg-151/20 20mm and two 12,7 mm heavy machine gun
-

And that is one more cannon that the Messish!t carried./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 05:38 PM
There was a prototype version of the 205 with 20mm gun pods as in the 109G/R series
The Italians didn't like the decrease of performance so they put the MG151 in the wing root like the Spitfire had them.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 09:08 PM
Its a cold and lonely wait for the 202...

http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/202r1.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-06-2003, 11:53 PM
Come on lads, get it started! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/mc202r3.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 12:30 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
-
- ITA-Joker- wrote:
-- Well, the Mc 205 Veltro was equipped with two
-- Mg-151/20 20mm and two 12,7 mm heavy machine gun
--
-
- And that is one more cannon that the Messish!t
- carried./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-

I must bump this one!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:24 AM
Where is it, such freezing cold and foggy?
Russia?
Or is it just somewhere near Milano?
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

pdog1 wrote:
- Its a cold and lonely wait for the 202...
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/202r1.jpg


The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 02:43 AM
Nope thats Russia... see the fuselage band and of 356 squadriglia.! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brrr its cold

http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/itar1.jpg



In Italian spirit, this airmen take it in stride and managed to even laugh. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/mc202r5a.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 01:01 PM
Bumpp...

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 01:10 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- There was a prototype version of the 205 with 20mm
- gun pods as in the 109G/R series
- The Italians didn't like the decrease of performance
- so they put the MG151 in the wing root like the
- Spitfire had them.

Good old Italians, I totally agree, the cannons should be in the wing rather then in gunpods.Apart from the hit in performance, gunpods makes the plane look ugly and we just can't have that.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 01:34 PM
Of course... could you imagine a spitfire with gun pods.. oh dear no.



----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-07-2003, 01:50 PM
DeerHunterUK wrote:
-
- I'll take that version then. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif But where were the 20mm cannons
- on the Veltro? I've got 2 conflicting sources, 1
- saying underneath the wing in gunpods and the other
- says in the wingroot.
-
------


The first two series of the Veltro carried the same armament of the Folgore, that is 2 12.7 mgs on the fuselage and 2 7.7mgs on the wings.
From the third series on, they all carried 2 12.7mgs on the fuselage and 2 20mm Mauser cannons on the wings.



<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>


Message Edited on 09/07/0302:51PM by Abraxa

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:03 PM
nt = No Text

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:16 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Nope thats Russia... see the fuselage band and of
- 356 squadriglia.! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Brrr its cold
-
- In Italian spirit, this airmen take it in stride and
- managed to even laugh. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


I have to bummmppp this one...
and sorry for the empty post before this one!
Can you imagine driving a MC.200 or a G.50 with their open cockpit in that freezing russian cold?!?!!?
You'll say "But also Rata and Tchaika had no canopy"... well, they were piloted by Russian that were used to cold, I would guess. But imagine a guy from Sicily flying over Siberia in that open cockpit... what a nightmare!!!

Does anybody have a photo of the "S" version of FIAT G.55?
That was a slightly modified prototype that could carry a torpedo, but it was never produced. Anyway, one was built for testings...

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:39 PM
Well G50 wasn't used in Russia but Finland still cold hahah, yes Mc200 imagine open cockpit dam lol.
Well not sibera, but stalingrad, 1942 was damned cold for everyone!

I have a photo of FiatG55 S in a book, its small and i can't get it scanned

All i could find on the net ahah

http://perso.club-internet.fr/dazio/Avions/Supermodel/Images/Supermodel10007g.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

dux-1
09-08-2003, 08:35 PM
Hi what about this baby ??

http://www.amivirtual.com/_images/s79fotoottav.jpg


http://www.amivirtual.com/_images/s79fotosec.jpg


Giobianco were are you ??

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 09:44 PM
I would love that.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 10:17 PM
ok - you got me... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

count me in as an Italoplane-whiner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

i really need to take out the Sparviero for a nice torpedo run...

think i´ve seen some WIP-shots of it long ago...

anybody got info on the status of the SM 79?



---------------------------------------
S! Blue_Smiley - online as Farmerboy
Flying Il2 newbie-style since 2001

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 10:53 PM
Last WIP i saw external looked 3/4 done.
Haven't heard anything yet. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Yes a torp run in an SM79 would rock.
Very good plane for it, could manuever quite well when unloaded, drop torp then shake all over the sky to evade AA fire.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 07:10 PM
- All i could find on the net ahah
-
http://perso.club-internet.fr/dazio/Avions/Supermodel/Images/Supermodel10007g.jpg



HE HE HE!! ROFL !!

That's incredible!!! I have this 1/72 model box since AGES!!
It was a present from my father, and the little G55 is still in its nice box since I never managed to find the time to build and paint it!!!
It's a VERY old one... about 15-20 years ago, I believe!
I didn't even imagine that you could find it in the net!!

Now I'm moved!!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 07:17 PM
Blue_smiley wrote:
- ok - you got me... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- count me in as an Italoplane-whiner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Welcome !!
Benvenuto !!



The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 07:20 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Last WIP i saw external looked 3/4 done.
- Haven't heard anything yet. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
- Yes a torp run in an SM79 would rock.

Link for the 3/4 done "Gobbo"?

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 07:35 PM
Hello, I'm an official Fiat CR.32, Fiat CR.42 and Gloster Gladiator whiner... Not a match for the rest, but I'd like to take a ride on these over the coast of Malta... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Mmmm, a soda in my left hand, the Mediterranean wind on my face, a gentle roll... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif the soda in the Mediterranean wind, and then in someone else's face... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

- Dux Corvan -



http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612322300

</span></blockquote></font></td></tr>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:30 PM
Here is some other less known italian fighters:
That actually fought in small numbers

The Aeronautica Umbra T.18
http://www.genie.it/utenti/cmprmilano/Photos/T18/t18-5.jpg


The Ambrosini S.A.I. 207

http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/march/aviation/SAI_207-13.jpg



The IMAM Ro.57

http://www.donsmodelworks.com/wmprods/images/wm48025.jpg


enjoy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





<ceter>http://www.boners.com/content/789408.1.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 08:48 PM
Nice pics, that T18 looks like an F5 though?
Same plane?

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

dux-1
09-09-2003, 09:16 PM
Mhhhuuaaaaaaa... Italian planes ugly ??

What about this

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/re2005.JPG


Better than the "Barrels with wings"...

S!

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:23 PM
Better ver dux. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/1re2005a.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

Message Edited on 09/09/0308:24PM by pdog1

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 09:35 PM
The last few planes (from the AUT18 on) were absolutely unknown to me.. Thanks for sharing them with us!

BTW Count me in as another "Italian Planes Whiner"..

PS: In the end, does the fat lady get to sing?

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 10:04 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Nice pics, that T18 looks like an F5 though?
- Same plane?

You mean the Caproni Ca.F5?
No, I dont think they are,


And dont forget, these planes WERE FLOWN IN COMBAT!

<ceter>http://www.boners.com/content/789408.1.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 11:11 PM
here are some other:

Savoia-Marchetti S.M.92

http://digilander.libero.it/dbmontello/Foto%20aerei/sm92.jpg

http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n1/italtwin.html


Caproni Ca.331 night fighter

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.co.uk/mike/Ca%20331%20a.jpg


I.M.A.M. Ro.58

http://members.fortunecity.se/photoww2/air/italy/imam/04298.jpg


http://www.planes-and-tanks.com/Flyg_35_WW2/IMAMRo58.jpg



Piaggio P.119
http://www.cofe.ru/Avia/P/P-63-1.jpg

http://digilander.libero.it/lealidellaregia/p119.htm




<ceter>http://www.boners.com/content/789408.1.jpg </center>



Message Edited on 09/09/0310:13PM by fjuff79

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 12:34 AM
Very weird
On that pic the AUT 18 on the fueselage stands for
Aeronautica Umbra Trojani.. but it has the bumps on the cowling similar to Mc200 and the airscrew spinner is cone shapped.
Picture i have in a book here has same AUT 18 letters but no bumps on cowling and the aircrew is blunt.
I know the F5 did see some combat in defense of rome haven't read any action by the T18.
Weird.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 12:41 AM
Anyway, here's more pics from russia.

Oh dude, change your sig please, its making me sick, really.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/21gc.jpg


http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/21gca.jpg


http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/mc200r5.jpg


http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/mc200r6.jpg


http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/MacchiMC200-5.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner






Message Edited on 09/09/0311:42PM by pdog1

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:01 AM
- Mmm... This makes me think that, once we'll have a
- flyable MC202 with its 4 small guns, we'll see some
- whines about its ineffectiveness... That's why I
- directly asked for G.55: with its 3 MG151/20 it can
- wipe out many stuff!!

I set up an MC202 behind a P-47 to see if the guns were anygood. I set it up behind because if the 202 went head on it would get killed for sure because its not modeled right. Anyways, with in a few secs of firing, the MC202 shot off one of the P-47's wings, I was amazed, and it did the same thing with diffrent planes and in diffrent situations, and it seems the 202's guns are very powerful. Im not saying this is bad, I like it, cant wait for it. Now I did the same thing with the IAR80, and lets just say the P-47 made it home intact and the IAR went home empty handed. And I read in the IAR's info page in the game, and it says a version of the IAR80 was made with 6 MG's instead of the 4 MG thats in the game now, and even a version with some 20mm guns, So im hoping they either increase the power of the MG's on it, or give it the 6 MG version, or both would be better.



http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.


Message Edited on 09/09/0305:07PM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:14 AM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/G59-1.jpg
A nice fighter, A captured G-59
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/G56-1.jpg
Very nice fighter, A German G-56
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia/P108-003.jpg
And why not throw a Heavy Bomber in there too, Italian P-108

http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.


Message Edited on 09/09/0305:15PM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:30 AM
Ah yes the Piaggio 108, the only REAL 4 engined axis bomber.
The He117 don't count and the jap water job doesn't either.


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:55 AM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MacchiMC202-7.jpg
"I stuck a water balloon under hes seat, I can't wait to hear it go SPLAT!, mabey that will teach him not to diss Italian planes."



Im just having some fun here, who ever said Italian planes are ugly, go look at some of those so called French Bombers, I mean god dang, ive seen toys that look more like a threat than that.

http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/Ba88-1.jpg
BA-88
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia/Br20-005.jpg
Fiat BR-20

If you ask me Italy has some of the nicest camoes, ever made, I mean look at them, so cool looking.


http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.


Message Edited on 09/09/0306:17PM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:00 AM
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/mc202_168sq_16gr_54st_tunisia1943.jpg


"Oh crap i forget to tell Oleg to fix the FM!"

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:20 AM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MacchiMC202-8.jpg
"What you guys doing just sitting there, get my plane ready"
"Didnt you hear?"
"No, what?"
"Oleg still hasn't fix the DM of the plane, so if you go up there, your going to get your *** handed to you"
"Thats what I get for not saying anything before he stop caring, darn it"


http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:38 AM
lol willey nice.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:51 AM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MacchiMC202-1.jpg
"Oh man, I forgot my keys in the ignition"

http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:54 AM
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/MC200-005.jpg


"Did you tell him about the undermodled FM?"

"Didn't he get a readme?"

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 02:58 AM
pdog1 wrote:
- Ah yes the Piaggio 108, the only REAL 4 engined axis
- bomber.
- The He117 don't count and the jap water job doesn't
- either.
-

What you babbling about pdog?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Only 4 P108s were made.

The Japanese had the Nakajima G5N Shinzan, "Liz"(6 built)

http://www.biic.de/aviation-museum/planes/country/japan/images/77.jpg


and Nakajima G8N Renzan, "Rita"(4 built).

http://www.combinedfleet.com/ijna/g8npic.gif




http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 03:00 AM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MC202-2s.jpg
Guy in middle "I can get to my plane faster than you!"
Guy on the left "Does it look like im trying, ***"
Guy on right "We are all going to get raped, these planes suck without the proper DM"

http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
--------------------------------------
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.


Message Edited on 09/10/0312:15AM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 03:29 AM
lol willy classic.
Really only 4?
Crap wasn't the whole "mussonlini" squad equiped with them?
I read that there was only 3 left at the end of the war, hmm i thought about 50 were made?

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 03:37 AM
The Piaggio P.108 B was the only heavy four-engine bomber to see service with the Regia Aeronautica during World War Two. Too few were built to play a significant role in the war, only 163 P.108 Bs having been built. The P.108 B was an all-metal cantilever low-wing monoplane with an retractable under-carriage, driven by four 1,350 hp Piaggio P.XII radial engines. The first prototype was finished in 10/39 and had a very advanced defensive armament for its day of two 7.7 mm machine waist guns, a 12.7 mm machine gun in the lower turret and a similar weapon in the nose turret, and two remotely-controlled twin gun turrets in outer engine nacelles. The first Allied bomber with a similar armament was the Boeing B 29, developed four years later. The bomb load of the Piaggio comprised of 7,700 lbs, all carried internally in the bomb bay.

The only unit of the Regia Aeronautica ever to fly the P.108 B was the 274th Long-Range Bombardment Group. This unit was formed in 5/41 around the first machines that came off the assembly lines. The training of the crews lasted far longer than anticipated and in 6/42 the 274th became operational. The most spectacular raids with the P. 108 B were flown in 10/42 when several night attacks against Gibraltar were undertaken from Sardinia. Several versions were derived from the P. 108 B: such as the P.108A, which had a 102 mm anti-shipping gun in the nose; the P.108C airliner and the P.108T transport. The latter two versions had a larger diameter fuselage for transporting passengers or freight. They were hardly used by the Regia Aeronautica, the main user being the German Luftwaffe. In 9/43, after the Italian armistice, the Luftwaffe had captured all fifteen P.108 Cs and P.108 Ts built. They were used at the Russian front, as part of Luftflotte 2, where they performed sterling duties, among others during the evacuation of the Crimea in 1944.

Article by JDG

Specifications

Model FIAT BR.20 Cicogna
Horsepower 550 hp
Engine Piaggio P.IIX RC 35
Max Speed 158 MPH
Range 2,033 - 2,750 Km
Wingspan 32 m
Height 7.70m
Weight 17,320 Kg
Max Weight 29,885 Kg
Length 22.92m
Crew 6
Payload 3,500 Kg
Armament 6 x 12,7 mm + 1 x 12,7 mm + 2 x 7.7 mm


550 hp motors and 158mph./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 03:54 AM
Ha 163 sounds better than 4. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Anyways it not meant to be fast, night bomber mostly and had good defensive guns.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/p108.jpg



http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/P108-B0-1.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:33 AM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MC202-14.jpg
Top right guy, "OH MAN!, that guy's farts probley do more damage to someone than a MG17!"
Top left guy, "Yea I know, I cant breathe, *cough*"

http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
--------------------------------------
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.


Message Edited on 09/09/0309:35PM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:25 AM
haha guess he ate to much "verduda"

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 06:32 AM
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/202art.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:14 AM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MC202-3.jpg
Middle guy, "Ok man I believe you, stop humping the plane."
Left guy, "See I told you can use the plane as a sex toy also."
Right guy, " Hey, mabey I should try this thing."


http://pilotosdelaluftwaffe.tripod.com/avi/erichhartmannsabre.jpg
--------------------------------------
"Out of all of my accomplishments, Ive never lost a wing man"- Erich Hartmann
He fought for hes country, not for hes leaders.


Message Edited on 09/10/0312:16AM by Wetwilly87

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:27 AM
MiloMorai wrote:
- The Piaggio P.108 B was the only heavy four-engine
- bomber to see service with the Regia Aeronautica
- during World War Two. ..........
-
- Specifications
-
- Model FIAT BR.20 Cicogna
- Horsepower 550 hp
- Engine Piaggio P.IIX RC 35
- Max Speed 158 MPH
- Range 2,033 - 2,750 Km
- Wingspan 32 m
- Height 7.70m
- Weight 17,320 Kg
- Max Weight 29,885 Kg
- Length 22.92m
- Crew 6
- Payload 3,500 Kg
- Armament 6 x 12,7 mm + 1 x 12,7 mm + 2 x 7.7 mm
-
-
- 550 hp motors and 158mph./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Hi Milo, altough the historical data on P.108 B are correct, the specifications you report are wrong (except for weight, dimensions and guns). Moreover, they are mixed up with those of FIAT B.R.20 "Cicogna", that is a much older plane (the one with the "nice camo" on Wetwilly87's post).
Here are the data, according to my sources...

Specifications of Piaggio P.108 B, mod. 1942
Engines: 4 x 18 cylinders radial Piaggio P.XII RC35, 1,350 HP each
Wingspan: 32.00 m
Length: 22.92 m
Height: 7.70 m
Weight: 17,320 kg
Max Weight: 29,885 kg
Max speed: 420 km/h (260 mph) @ 3,900 m
Max altitude: 8,050 m
Range: 3,520 km
Crew: 6
Payload: 3,500 kg (5,500 for the transport "T" version)
Armament: 6 x 12,7 mm + 1 x 12,7 mm + 2 x 7.7 mm


Specifications of FIAT B.R.20 "Cicogna", mod. 1937
Engines: 2 x 18 cylinders radial FIAT A.80 RC 41, 1,000 HP each
Wingspan: 21.56 m
Length: 16.10 m
Height: 4.30 m
Weight: - kg
Max Weight: 9,900 kg
Max speed: 432 km/h (267 mph) @ 5,000 m
Max altitude: 9,000 m
Range: 3,000 km
Crew: 5
Payload: 1,600 kg
Armament: 1 x 12,7 mm + 2 x 7.7 mm

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:56 AM
And what about this guy?
The Campini-Caproni CC-2, a jet that made Italy the second nation having such a plane flying.
In real life, this plane just sucked: it was a "false" jet (see engine scheme) and it was S L O W: 359.5 km/h with combustion ON (700 kg thrust), 325 km/h with combustion OFF, 9 min to reach 1,000 m (!!!!!!!!!!!!).... but at least it flyed!!
For more technical and historical information (in Italian) go to:
http://www.museoscienza.org/AEREO/caproni.html

I've seen the CC-1 (CC-2 prototype) in a museum near Rome. I have to say, however, that at least it looks quite modern, sort of early 1950 fighters.



Testing the "post-combustion"...
http://www.museoscienza.org/AEREO/img/cc_prova_big.jpg


It FLYES !!!
http://www.museoscienza.org/AEREO/img/caproni_foto.jpg


Back in the hangar...
http://www.museoscienza.org/AEREO/img/cc_vigna_big.jpg


The "motor-reactor" scheme:
http://www.museoscienza.org/AEREO/img/cc_motore_big.gif


The CC-1 prototype in the Vigna di Valle museum.
http://www.uploadit.org/files/100903-CC-1.jpg
http://www.uploadit.org/files/100903-CC-1_culo.jpg



The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:14 PM
Cippacometa, I blame it on the website I grabbed the data from./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Was just a quick and very dirty grab, for sure./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 01:54 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Very weird
- On that pic the AUT 18 on the fueselage stands for
- Aeronautica Umbra Trojani.. but it has the bumps on
- the cowling similar to Mc200 and the airscrew
- spinner is cone shapped.
- Picture i have in a book here has same AUT 18
- letters but no bumps on cowling and the aircrew is
- blunt.

- I know the F5 did see some combat in defense of rome
- haven't read any action by the T18.
- Weird.

I think there were 15 made,with some differenties in them,
but I can be wromg,must find my source again.

do you have any good pics on Caproni Ca.F4/F5/F6s





Message Edited on 09/10/0312:55PM by fjuff79

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:26 PM
all i could find on the net, sorry

http://www.spottersguide.com/cvf5.html

http://digilander.libero.it/lealidellaregia/CV-F5.htm

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:42 PM
Bump.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 02:43 PM
So, these two guys, I mean Caproni F5 and AUT 18...

I don't know anything about them! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Do you have any data about them?
I mean, how many were build, where have they been used, how did they fly, etc etc...

Thanx in advance!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-11-2003, 02:51 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
-
- Cippacometa, I blame it on the website I grabbed the
- data from./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Was just a quick and very dirty
- grab, for sure./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Milo, I was sure it was something like "dirty grabbing"!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Offtopic : What about your Harley sig... are you a biker?
I am, anyway: I've a Suzuki SV 650-S and I just did (yesterday) Roma-Marseille with it = 900 km! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Ouch, my poor ***!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Bye!



The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 04:44 PM
Big *** bump.
Why no Fiat G50 in the free addon?
GAY!

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 05:40 PM
Cippacometa wrote:
- So, these two guys, I mean Caproni F5 and
- AUT 18...
-
- I don't know anything about them! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- Do you have any data about them?
- I mean, how many were build, where have they been
- used, how did they fly, etc etc...
-
- Thanx in advance!

I will try find the book again,

<ceter>http://www.boners.com/content/788904.1.jpg </center>
VICTOR MAY HAVE BEEN CRAZY, BUT HE WAS A DAMN GOOD FIGHTER PILOT.

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 06:03 PM
fjuff79,

PLEASE change your sig !!!!!!!!!!!!

BLEARGHH !

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb36085.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 06:22 PM
Yeah its nasty, stop it.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 08:01 PM
I want the Fiat G50 in the addon... murder you all in it.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 08:20 PM
http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/g50bis.jpg



----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

Message Edited on 09/13/0307:22PM by pdog1

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 08:23 PM
http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/g50finn.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 10:27 PM
Is this better



.
<ceter>http://cards.austrosearch.at/images/pic_2002-08-06_193454.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 10:32 PM
No

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 01:14 AM
P1SS on ubi for no FiatG50 in update...

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 02:18 AM
May I, on behalf of The Official Whirlwind Whiner's Thread, present you with you with this sig as a token of our esteem for your interesting and informative thread?

We would love to see the Regia Aeronuatica represented in FB in the near future and wish you all the best in persuading Oleg and crew to take these lovely 'planes on board. Good luck chaps!

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/140903-Italia sig copy.jpg


<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/140903-Flagwhirly nice.jpg

"WHINERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!"

<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/110903-Newsig.jpg.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 02:26 AM
Thanks, here's Whirly bird. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/ww-01.jpg


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 07:05 PM
fjuff79 wrote:
- Is this better

<ceter>http://cards.austrosearch.at/images/pic_2002-08-06_193454.jpg </center>



hi hi hi hi hi!!!
ROLFL!!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb36085.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 07:11 PM
Low_Flyer wrote:
- May I, on behalf of The Official Whirlwind Whiner's
- Thread, present you with you with this sig as a
- token of our esteem for your interesting and
- informative thread?
-
- We would love to see the Regia Aeronuatica
- represented in FB in the near future and wish you
- all the best in persuading Oleg and crew to take
- these lovely 'planes on board. Good luck chaps!


Welcome Low Flyer in the OMCWT [Official MC.202 (and some more) Whiners Thread] !!
Thnk you for your appreciation and may we all see in the (early) future all our favourite "Forgotten Birds" from all over the world !!!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb36085.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 07:14 PM
I want the G50.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 07:25 PM
pdog and others, the Italian flyables are on hold til the MTO sim comes out./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Hopefully that will be not too long in coming./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 07:27 PM
Yeah well im leaving in January and when i come back there better be a med sim... be sure... but i don't understand why I can't fly the Fiat G50 as its DONE ffs...

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:50 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
- pdog and others, the Italian flyables are on hold
- til the MTO sim comes out

MTO? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
http://www.smiliedb.de/s/sdb36085.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 08:54 PM
Yeah after free addon and BoB addon there will be brand new sim in MTO.
Be sure.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:33 AM
pdog1 wrote:
- Yeah after free addon and BoB addon there will be
- brand new sim in MTO.
- Be sure.

What is MTO??????



The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:18 AM
Cippacometa wrote:
-
- What is MTO??????
-

I think it means Mediterranean Theatre of Operations.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 12:03 PM
DeerHunterUK wrote:
-
- Cippacometa wrote:
--
-- What is MTO??????
--
-
- I think it means Mediterranean Theatre of
- Operations.
-

Yes./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

some others:

ETO > Europian theatre of operation
SWP > south west Pacific
CBI > China, Burma, India
SEA > south east Asia
CPA > central Pacific area
SPA > south Pacific area


http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 01:16 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
-
- DeerHunterUK wrote:
--
-- Cippacometa wrote:
---
--- What is MTO??????
---
--
-- I think it means Mediterranean Theatre of
-- Operations.
--
-
- Yes./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- some others:
-
- ETO > Europian theatre of operation
- SWP > south west Pacific
- CBI > China, Burma, India
- SEA > south east Asia
- CPA > central Pacific area
- SPA > south Pacific area


WOW !!!!

Are we going to have all this !?!?!?

As add-ons?!?!?!?

For free ??!??!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 01:28 PM
Thus, is it possible to have add-on a/cs from all these thatres? I mean:

- MTO > Mediterranean Theatre of Operations
Lots of Italian stuff such as MCs, FIATs, Savoia-Marchetti, etc

- ETO > European Theatre of operation
French, Romanian, Yugoslavian, etc stuff?
And some more English, I hope!!

- SWP > South West Pacific
Australian Boomerangs et similia ?

- CBI > China, Burma, India
Did Chineses and Indians made planes? Maybe we just need some skins and insignas for P-40 and Ratas...

- SEA > South East Asia
???

- CPA > Central Pacific Area
All Japanese planes!!!! WOW!!!
And more USA stuff like Corsair, F6F, etc etc!! WOW!!

- SPA > South Pacific Area
Sounds like CPA+SWP...

And what about BOB (Battle of Britain)? Is it included in ETO?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 01:51 PM
Now don't get carried away Cippa./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif All in good time, sometime in the future.

You asked about MTO, all I did was give you some others.

The ETO is north west Europe. The other 2 places you mentioned are in the MTO.

http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/625ed428e022ef/www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/Softail/images/DOM/img_Softail_FXST.jpg

http://www.redneckengineering.com/photogallery/photo23581/curves-done-03.jpg


"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 02:24 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
- Now don't get carried away Cippa./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif All in good time, sometime in
- the future.


I want it ALL,
and I want it NOW !!!!!

(Dear old Queen)

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 03:24 PM
Be sure...

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:10 PM
Hi folks!
I'm another (Italian) whiner of Regia Aeronautica (and ANR) fighters of WWII and, why not, Spanish War...it would be nice fight against a Rata (I-16) or a Chaika (I-153) in a CR32!
I appreciate the work of all the guys to make flyable some italian plane...it would be a dream to fly the RE2005 (the most beautiful of italian planes, IMHO, and certainly most beautiful of all barrels with wings like P-47, F-6F, F-4F... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ), but I think that we must be satisfied with the C202/205, even the G50, and maybe a C200...
I've been for several years the coordinator of IPMS Italy-Special Interest Group focused on the RA/ANR (Regia Aeronautica/Aeronautica Nazionale Repubblicana), and I've noticed some wrong informations on this thread, particularly in the data (often the number of airplanes built, in old books, is confused with the number of airplane ordered), so, for more precision, I would add some informations; I've a lot of books, but, as said, often older books lack data, or old sources exaggerated some performances etc. So, to simplify, I've took my data from the newest series of booklets dedicated to italian planes the "Ali d'Italia" series, written by some of the most important and credited aeronautical italian journalists (G.Alegi, G.Apostolo, G.Garello etc). It's a good series, new, both in italian/english language, and easily to be found.
According to these sources, here my data
Piaggio P 108B production: no 4 (few) neither 163 (many!), but only 24 were built: 13 of these planes were lost in combat mission, and 3 for flight accidents. Plus a small series (probably 11) of transport aircraft P-108C and T, used only by the Luftwaffe.
Reggiane RE 2005 production: ordered 2 prototypes, 34 Serie (batch) 0 aircraft, and 600 Serie I aircraft, but only 2 prototypes + 32 aircraft of Serie 0 were built (the complete list of all individual aircraft built, with serial number and brief history of each plane, is in the book)
FIAT G 55 production: 3 prototypes, 17 Serie I Sottoserie 0 aircrafts, 144 Serie I aircrafts were built (but not all of these planes were employed in combat, because many were destroyed by allied bombardaments at FIAT factories while ready to delivery). Several aircraft of G 55 A/B postwar variant were built for Italian Air Force, Egyptian, Argentina and Syria Air Forces. The G 59 was a 1948 version of G 55 A/B with a RollsRoyce Merlin engine, and never was emplyed in combat (and never "captured" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )
Macchi C 202 production: 1440 ordered in several batches (Series from I to XIV), only 1070 built until august 1943.
Macchi C 205 production: built 2 prototypes (one developed froma an ex C202), 100 Serie I aircrafts, 150 Serie III aircrafts
Macchi C200 production: 1176 ordered in several batches (Series from I to XXVI), 1174 built (+2 prototypes)
FIAT G50 production: 791 built (244 G50, 439 G50bis and 108 G50B) - some differences between data from Ministry of Air Force and Factory, but impossible to verify because the total distruction of factory archives.
The canopy of series 5 aircraft (C205, G55 and RE2005) were similar in design, but not the same: in fact the one installed on G55 was more wide and tall than the others (the G55 was a big aircraft, not so big like the Jug, but certainly more big than C2002/2005, and Me109 family), and the RE2005 has the longer canopy of all others planes; the canopy of C202 and C205 was the same, and it's different only in the windshield (bullet proof glass in C205).
All the aircrafts (like in fact RE2000/2001/2002 series, and many others italian type) havent the structure behind the canopy shaped in that particulary form to provide a rear vision fot the pilot, and no glass was provided to seal the slots...beside, the italian pilots were accustomed to aircrafts with open cockpit , like CR42, C200 and G50, even in cold theatres like BoB and Russia, so no really troubles....
Sorry for my english, but I think is intelligible to all... I've noticed we are a lot of italian here, I hope to meet someone online, to learn the right way to fly and combat at least 5 minutes without being shot down... maybe it's me, maybe I must to learn to fly and combat in the '109 (my favourite plane, obviously in Italian markings! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ), but I think if someone will correct the FM on russian planes, then I will have more chances to survive... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
cheers
Pag

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:27 PM
Hey thats some great info there, thanks.
Well your english is fine, much better than my busted half sicilian half italian language i try to speak! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:44 PM
Here is a guncamera video of a Mc202 shooting down a P-40
The link doesnt work... please copy it and paste in the Explorer bar
http://www.regiaaeronautica.it/immagini/Multimedia/Video_1.avi

From this very good site about the Regia Aeronautica, the Italian Air Force, in World War II.
http://www.regiaaeronautica.it


Message Edited on 09/15/0306:46PM by ITA-Joker-

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:57 PM
Pagooro wrote:
- I've noticed we are a lot of italian here, I
- hope to meet someone online, to learn the right way
- to fly and combat at least 5 minutes without being
- shot down...


Then you should fly a La7 !!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anyway, thanx a lot for all your useful and interesting informations on numbers, canopies, etc etc of italian aircrafts!!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
And welcome to this thread, that seems to become quite successful!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:19 PM
Pagooro wrote:
I've noticed we are a lot of italian here, I
- hope to meet someone online, to learn the right way
- to fly and combat at least 5 minutes without being
- shot down...

Although I'm not Italian - only 1/8, the rest is Dutch http://forums.ubi.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
- I plan to fly Italian aircraft as soon as one is added to FB !!http://forums.ubi.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Roast/'Arrosto'http://forums.ubi.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:21 AM
There won't be any italian aircraft in FB at this rate.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:52 AM
ITA-Joker- wrote:
- Here is a guncamera video of a Mc202 shooting down a
- P-40

Cazzo!! Fanno male 'ste "mitragliette"!! *

* = Wow! They hurt these "tiny" MGs!!

... since MC202 was armed "just" with 2x12.7 mm + 2x7.7 mm MGs, one wouldn't expect such a devastating effect as shown on the guncamera video...

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:00 AM
Most 202s were armed with the 12.7mm anyways, very few had the 7.7 wing guns.
Well the tracer isn't the spiral thingy from german cannon so its not that, has to be the 12.7mm mgs.
Its not that much damage anyway the plane is still flying at the end, just a missing a few chunks.
12.7 ain't exactly tiny either. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

Message Edited on 09/16/0312:00AM by pdog1

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:22 AM
pdog1 wrote:
- Most 202s were armed with the 12.7mm anyways, very
- few had the 7.7 wing guns.
- Well the tracer isn't the spiral thingy from german
- cannon so its not that, has to be the 12.7mm mgs.
- Its not that much damage anyway the plane is still
- flying at the end, just a missing a few chunks.

Yeah, but did you see the smoke coming from the engine and the size of the chunks!?!?

- 12.7 ain't exactly tiny either. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

...well, tinyer than a 20 mm cannon, anyway...
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:34 AM
I seen that same gun clip being refered to as from 109 and 202, who knows.
Unless theres some other italian gun cam showing 12.7mm hits out there to compare it too...

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:31 AM
Bump, hope Pagooro can shed some light on this, or any more info. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:40 AM
I've always seen that clip referred to a C.202. BTW, the 12,7mm Breda-Safat belts were fed with good HE cartridges, IIRC with more destructive power than the Mauser's one.

Saetta aka Gatt
4?Stormo Caccia
http://www.4stormo.it

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:50 AM
Cippacometa wrote:
-
- Saetta wrote:
-- Two groups from two different online sims have got
-- crazy trying to get reliable data for italian
-- fighters, even from former Macchi engineers.
-
- Saetta, can you be more precise about this
- information?
- I mean, do you have any link or any doc about these
- data on italian fighters?
- Final question: what do you mean with "Two groups
- from two different online sims"? Maybe AH and WB3?
- (at least on AH I know there are both 202 and 205).
- Thanks!

Hi Cippa,
yes those two groups are from AH and WB. And yes, both the C.202 and C.205 are modeled in those online sims.
AFAIK, the only reliable data about the C.202 and C.205 performances have been published by Giorgio Apostolo Editore in the "Aerofan Speciale n?4" issue, IIRC.




Saetta aka Gatt
4?Stormo Caccia
http://www.4stormo.it

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:04 PM
Hi. I've seen the movie, and yes, the plane is still flying, but is flying into the ground (or sea)..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
In effect I agree with Saetta, the Breda Safat were very good and effective guns, the limitation was in the number (generally only two on all italian airplanes from CR42 to C202) and in the installation inthe cowling above the engine, that cause no problems in the aiming, but problems in the rate of fire, due to the syncronization with the propeller speed.
From Serie VII, the C202 can carry two more 7,7mm weapons in the wings, but due to the weight of weapon/ammo and the limited power of the engine, only few aircrafts were effectively armed with weapons in the wings; in effect the pilots preferred a better manouverable aircraft, even if less armed, than a "sitting duck" (however,two more 7,7 mm is not a big improvement).
The things changed with Serie 5 aircraft and the installation of 20mm cannons, but too few, too late...
Ciao
Pag

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:56 PM
Saetta wrote:
- I've always seen that clip referred to a C.202. BTW,
- the 12,7mm Breda-Safat belts were fed with good HE
- cartridges, IIRC with more destructive power than
- the Mauser's one.

I hope this will be correctly modeled in the flyable MCs....
Well, at least the AI MC.202 in FB already shots fairly good. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:00 PM
Saetta wrote:
- AFAIK, the only reliable data about the C.202 and
- C.205 performances have been published by Giorgio
- Apostolo Editore in the "Aerofan Speciale n?4"
- issue, IIRC.

We should provide Oleg with this!
I can translate it for him in English or in French... but not in Russian!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:54 PM
dux-1 wrote:
- Hi what about this baby ??
-
<img
- src="http://www.amivirtual.com/_images/s79fotootta
- v.jpg">
-
-
<img
- src="http://www.amivirtual.com/_images/s79fotosec.
- jpg">
-
-
- Giobianco were are you ??
-
-
-
-
-

yeah i'm with you. let's get the sm79 but let's also get the Med that way we can fly low over the gorgeous sea, torrpedo allied shipping to Malta, and then return to base in Sicily. At least that would be the dream.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:13 PM
Cippacometa wrote:
- Thus, is it possible to have add-on a/cs from all
- these thatres? I mean:
-
-- MTO > Mediterranean Theatre of Operations
- Lots of Italian stuff such as MCs, FIATs,
- Savoia-Marchetti, etc
-
-- ETO > European Theatre of operation
- French, Romanian, Yugoslavian, etc stuff?
- And some more English, I hope!!
-
-
-- SWP > South West Pacific
- Australian Boomerangs et similia ?
-
-- CBI > China, Burma, India
- Did Chineses and Indians made planes? Maybe we just
- need some skins and insignas for P-40 and Ratas...
-
-- SEA > South East Asia
- ???
-
-- CPA > Central Pacific Area
- All Japanese planes!!!! WOW!!!
- And more USA stuff like Corsair, F6F, etc etc!!
- WOW!!
-
-- SPA > South Pacific Area
- Sounds like CPA+SWP...
-
- And what about BOB (Battle of Britain)? Is it
- included in ETO?
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205
- "Veltro"
- <img
- src="http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Fl
- ying_picc.jpg">
-

The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005
- Whiner</p>
- <center><a
- href="http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/"
- target="mash"><img
- src="http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/
- mash_hawkeye.jpg" width="205" height="95" border="0"
- alt="Click here to take the M*A*S*H
- quiz!"></a></center>

why not the Spanish Civil War while you're at it. It would be fun to go around with all the older less advanced aircraft, including the Cr. 32.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 03:18 PM
s.s.m. wrote:
- why not the Spanish Civil War while you're at it. It
- would be fun to go around with all the older less
- advanced aircraft, including the Cr. 32.

Yeah, why not!?!
The more, the better!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 04:04 PM
Yep, let me enroll the list too. I'am a Macchi whiner. Definitely!

Za Rodinu !

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:34 PM
Trotzky wrote:
- Yep, let me enroll the list too. I'am a Macchi
- whiner. Definitely!
-
- Za Rodinu !


Welcome to you Trot!

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/040903-MC205_Flying_picc.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>
<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 03:09 AM
Would you belive it if i said some people think the Series 5 fighters are butt ugly?
I still don't haha, dam hataz.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:04 AM
pdog1 wrote:
- Would you belive it if i said some people think the
- Series 5 fighters are butt ugly?
- I still don't haha, dam hataz.


This is BUTT UGLY:
http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-wildcat.jpg



This is NOT:
http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55.jpg


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/160903-MC205_Flying_picc_2.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 11:56 AM
Have to agree with you there Cippacometa about the Italian aircraft looks in general.But they did design the G.50 and that truly does looks like it fell out of the ugly tree.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 12:14 PM
G50 is ugly in most eyes because lines are not pleasing, but i love it anyway. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/MacchiW.jpg



http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/fiatw3.jpg



Word!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 12:53 PM
DeerHunterUK wrote:
- Have to agree with you there Cippacometa about the
- Italian aircraft looks in general.But they did
- design the G.50 and that truly does looks like it
- fell out of the ugly tree.


Yes, yes, I agree!
The "beauty" are series 5 and MC202.
The others, well...

The only surviving flightworthy Macchi MC.205 "Veltro"
http://www.uploadit.org/files/160903-MC205_Flying_picc_2.jpg


The Official MC.202/205, G.55 and Re.2005 Whiner</p>

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:13 PM
this is THE beauty. Any other plane is ugly compared to her. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/1copiash.jpg

http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/Re2005trequarti1s.jpg

Still I admit. The G50 is really ugly nad was a crappy plane too.


...I'm an UR-Macchi-whiner! from the beginning of the times!!!

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:17 PM
Yes the G50 is ugly and not such a good plane but i still love it and want it flyable for FB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ah yes Reggiane 2005, most beauitful axis fighter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:17 PM
The G. 50 looks like the fighter equivalent of the Vickers Wellesley. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:22 PM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MC205-5s.jpg

http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MC205V-17.jpg


Message Edited on 09/17/0302:23PM by ITA-Joker-

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 01:26 PM
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/MC205V-16.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:06 PM
Abraxa wrote:
- this is THE beauty. Any other plane is ugly compared
- to her.

Mmmm... Re.2005 is undoubtely beutyful, but it has a too big wingtail, in my own personal opinion, that unbalances a bit the harmony of her lines.
I prefer the lines of MC.205 and G.55: they're more equilibrated, and the FIAT looks also very aerodinamically "clean".



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg


Message Edited on 09/17/0302:10PM by Cippacometa

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:15 PM
DeerHunterUK wrote:
- The G. 50 looks like the fighter equivalent of the
- Vickers Wellesley. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You mean this flying horror?
Yeah, I guess it has been designed by Howard P. Lovecraft !!

http://www.raf-upper-heyford.org/UH_AC_Vickers_Wellesley.jpg




http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:22 PM
To go on whith "The Beauty and the Butt-Ugly" saga, have a look at this and guess in which category I shall put it!!!!!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://aviation-hobby-site.com/oldahs/Ba65.jpg


(Those are BREDA Ba.65 of the Portugal air force)



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:42 PM
Gentlemen, can I join the Macchi/Fiat Whiners Club?

I'm a silent-macchi-whiner, but always a whiner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

bye
-------
http://mysite.freeserve.com/maladoc/images/4-picture.jpg



Message Edited on 09/17/0302:43PM by Bender999

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 02:47 PM
Bender999 wrote:
- Gentlemen, can I join the Macchi/Fiat Winers Club?
-
- I a silent-macchi-whiner, but always a whiner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Welcome and don't be a silent whiner, be a loud one!!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 03:23 PM
Yeah you never hear a silent whiner cry.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 04:33 PM
I must say, the Fiat G55 is the best looking plane.



something to read:
http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/g55/G55his.htm



.
<ceter>http://www.boners.com/content/788832.1.jpg </center>




.
<ceter>http://www.boners.com/content/788832.1.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 05:58 PM
pdog!!!!!
Someone put your G.50 in the "MOST UGLY a/c" thread!!!!!
Do something!!!!! Quick!!!!!!!!



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 08:05 PM
Bah, those infidels are hataz... the first plane is mad ugly so leave it anyway,

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:48 AM
what about the Fiat Br. 20 Cicogna? wasn't that the one of the Italian bomber deployed to Russia in sizeable numbers?
were there any other Italian bombers deployed in Russia in any strength?

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 10:55 AM
s.s.m. wrote:
- what about the Fiat Br. 20 Cicogna? wasn't that the
- one of the Italian bomber deployed to Russia in
- sizeable numbers?
- were there any other Italian bombers deployed in
- Russia in any strength?


The "Cicogna", AFAIK, was utilized in some numbers on the Russian front. However, the large majority of them (about 600 built) was deployed in Greece, N. Africa and N. of France. Some were sold to Japan that used them in China.
I don't have at the moment my info sources here, so I can't fully answer your questions. Sorry!

Bye!



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 01:55 PM
No one is going to model the Fiat Br.20 its ugly and a poor performer. Used mainly as transport in russia though.
Italy used several of the Caproni twin engined planes though Ca313, etc. for transport.
Most italian fighter operations in russia were in support of ground troops or escorting stukas, etc.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:49 PM
Hi guys, the most beautiful aircraft is the RE2005 Sagittario (even if I am a fan of Bf109), and, IMHO, the most beautiful Sagittario was the prototype with VDM propeller./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Beside, even if ugly, and her performances was poor (compared to others italian and foreign aricrafts in the same period), I have a feeling for the G.50 (it was the first italian aircraft kit I had built, an Airfix kit, almost 30 years ago...).
Here some informations on italian operations in Russia:
from august 1941 to may 1942
22? Gruppo Caccia (Fighter Group) with Squadriglie 359a, 362a, 369a e 371a equipped with 51 Macchi C.200
from may/june 1942 to february 1943
21? Gruppo Caccia with Squadriglie 356a, 382a, 386a and (later) 361a equipped with 32 Macchi C.200; in september 12 Macchi C.202 were assigned to the Group (the four Squadriglia had tree aircraft each)
During 18 months from august 1941 to january 1943, in 6.361 combat sorties the C.200s claimed 88 russian aircraft shot down, with the loss of 15 C.200 (no kills and losses creditet to C.202). As the author of "Courage Alone", Chris Dunning, said "A creditable performance for an open-cockpit fighter in the Russian autumn and winter". (but the Russian too have aircrafts with an open cockpit.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )
Others italian aircraft involved in Russian campaign are:
32 Caproni Ca.311/312 from 61? and (later) 71? Gruppo OA Osservazione Aerea (Reconnaissance), but also with "light strike" duties
12 FIAT BR.20 (71? Gruppo OA) bombardament and reconnaissance duties
10 Savoia Marchetti S.81, 1 Savoia Marchetti S.82 and 3 Caproni Ca.133 for transpor duties
Bye

Pag

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:44 AM
Bump, great info Pagooro, thanks./

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:25 AM
Bumps!!
Great infos Paguro!


Pagooro wrote:
- "A creditable performance for an open-cockpit
- fighter in the Russian autumn and winter". (but the
- Russian too have aircrafts with an open
- cockpit...


Yeah, but those russians were vodka-heated !!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif !!!!



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 11:48 AM
Hi guys, i'm another Italian over here,apart from the beautifull Serie 5 fighters,wich are not of concern in IL2 FB, it would be great to have the G50, the Mc 202, and also the MS 405 as flyable planes, and why not the evergreen MC 200...they all played a role in East Front , and since i like to play the Finn campaign more than the others....;-)
;-) saluti atutti....
W la Regia !!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:42 PM
Piero57 wrote:
- Hi guys, i'm another Italian over here,apart from
- the beautifull Serie 5 fighters,wich are not of
- concern in IL2 FB, it would be great to have the
- G50, the Mc 202, and also the MS 405 as flyable
- planes, and why not the evergreen MC 200...they all
- played a role in East Front , and since i like to
- play the Finn campaign more than the others....;-)
- ;-) saluti atutti....
- W la Regia !!!!

Hi Piero!
Well, I hope that whining for the "Serie 5" will bring us at least the MC.202 or the G.50!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
By the way, benvenuto nel thread!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:44 PM
Look at this sim (great sim, by the way): there are a lot of version of FW190 and Bf109 (and this is good /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ), several version of I-16 (2), Lagg3 (3), MiG-3 (6), Yak (9), Il-2 (10!, but the title is for her...), and various version of P-40, P-47, Hurricane, P-39, and I tink there will be many Spitfires and P-51s, when ready...
And what we asking for? ONE C.200, ONE C.202, ONE C.205, ONE G.50.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif !!
Or someone would have the G.50bis, instead the G.50, or a C.202 serie VII instead a Serie III? (however, for the C.205, if I can decide my chose is for an aircraftof Serie III.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).
I hope for an italian aircraft, any type, but now!! and, as said in Italy, "don't look in the mouth of the horse when is a gift..." (bad translation, but I think you will understand anyway!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ):=
Ciao
Pag

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 05:36 PM
Yeah any one flyable italian plane would be nice.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 05:46 PM
MC202 !!WHINE-WHIMPER-CRY-SNIFFLE.....

WINE ?? DID SOME ONE SAY WINE ?

VINO!!

http://idealab.snu.ac.kr/~hobbist/La-5FN/small/La-5FN-06.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:55 PM
Pagooro wrote:
- I hope for an italian aircraft, any type, but now!!
- and, as said in Italy, "don't look in the mouth of
- the horse when is a gift..." (bad translation, but I
- think you will understand anyway!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ):=
- Ciao
- Pag


A caval donato.... I "almost" agree with you.
In fact, I hope to have at least one of the late "Serie 5", which can better compete with the other '43-'45 fighters.
Would be nice to have the G.50 for '38-'40, the MC.202 for '41-'42 and G.55 (or MC.205) for '43-'45...
I don't think I'm asking much: G.50 and MC.202 are already (AI) modelled and just need to be made flyable; MC.205 is almost identical to 202, and MC.205 and G.55 have the same engine and big guns of Bf.109, so other things already modelled!!!

C'mon, Oleg! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P.S. Pag, did you subscribe your request for new aircrafts, scenarios and sims in "Oleg's ready room forum" ?
If not, do it NOW!!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
There are 2 threads made by the moderators (names in read = easy to find!).
Ciao!



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:03 PM
Saburo_0 wrote:
- MC202 !!WHINE-WHIMPER-CRY-SNIFFLE.....
-
- WINE ?? DID SOME ONE SAY WINE ?
-
- VINO!!
-

http://idealab.snu.ac.kr/~hobbist/La-5FN/small/La-5FN-06.jpg

Salute!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://ns.tit.co.jp/_borders/red_wine.jpg






http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:06 AM
Hi my name is Amaru , and I am an Veltroholic


Yes is a huge need of italian beauties in FB, specially the C.200 & 202, the Br.20 isn`t a ugly plane, and I´d be nicve to have some SM.82 for transport( a lot were used with TG 1 & 4) along the Ca.311M and the Br20M as part of the Italian Ari corps in Russia. lets hope 4 the best, regards


Veltro 25

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:18 AM
Where's the cheese?


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:15 AM
Wasn´t the Fiat G55 cosidered to be the best all around performer, and the first choice for the italian airforce?
once again I must say this aircraft looks brutal,
it sutch a beaty.

P.S.
sorry for the sig, I know you don´t like it



Message Edited on 09/20/0301:24AM by fjuff79

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:20 AM
STTTTOP IT.
When Fiat G55 is flyable im going to murder you 10 times over in it because of these pic... jesus!

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:25 AM
SORRY /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Am I upsetting yuo for real?

if so
I will take them away when posting here.

Sorry again



Message Edited on 09/20/0301:29AM by fjuff79

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:31 AM
do you have any good comparision of performance between the
5 series?



Message Edited on 09/20/0301:32AM by fjuff79

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 10:58 AM
In our Squadron's furball server last night I flew my He-111 draped in Italian colours. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Oh yes and another shameless bump.

-----
In memory of 'The Few'
<img src=http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg>
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:22 PM
The series 5 fighters came too late to impact in the airwar,
by the way they were all taken into action, the smallest number came from Reggiane 2005,but it was a very good plane,even the Luftwaffe took away the last batch come out from the Reggiane works, to use in the Reich defense, as well as a small number of Reggiane 2002 strike planes.
The most produced and used in combat were then the latest series of macchi MC 205 and the Fiat G 55, wich flew for the ANR against Allied bombers going on their route to bombing South Germany. The MC 205 was an all-round performer,better for low-medium altitudes,and a sturdy plane;the G 55 was the best high alt interceptor, they both were a though match for P 51 and late Spits, and far superior than all others Allied planes;the ANR used them until Fiat and Macchi works could produce,meanwhile flanked them with numbers of Bf 109Gs and K4s.
Accounts from pilots say that the G.55 was the best for high alt bombers intercept, superior to the K version of Bf 109,while the MC 205 was the perfect dogfighter...;-)
Salute....!!
I can provide all numbers you'll need,pilot names,statistics etc..etc.. about the ANR.

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 03:41 PM
- Cippacometa wrote:
- P.S. Pag, did you subscribe your request for new
- aircrafts, scenarios and sims in "Oleg's ready room
- forum" ?
- If not, do it NOW!!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
- There are 2 threads made by the moderators (names in
- read = easy to find!).
- Ciao!
-

Fatto! ora ora...(mi sembrava di essermi allargato un po' con le richieste, e non ho voluto strafare, altrimenti sarei arrivato fino ad un CantZ1018 o un RS.14.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )
Sorry for the use of the italian in the answer above, for all of us non italian-speaking, but, as said here "..quanno ce vo', ce vo'.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif (I'm not from Rome, anyway..)
The chese for the wine, wuold you an italian type like pecorino or provolone, or an english one... some cheddar, shopshire blue, stilton? (the shopshire blue is a good cheese, like a orange gorgonzola...)
ciao
Pag

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:28 PM
Pagooro wrote:
- The chese for the wine, wuold you an italian type
- like pecorino or provolone, or an english one...
- some cheddar, shopshire blue, stilton? (the
- shopshire blue is a good cheese, like a orange
- gorgonzola...)

Direi pecorino con le fave!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Tipico di Roma a Pasqua!

mmm.... don't know "fave" in english, it's a sort of green beans that you eat fresh, and pecorino is sheep cheese. These two things together with wine are a popular food during Easter period.

Ci !


http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:31 PM
Piero57 wrote:
- I can provide all numbers you'll need,pilot
- names,statistics etc..etc.. about the ANR.

Ciao Piero!

Yes please! I'll be glad to see more stats, expecially on series 5: max speed, climb, turn rate, how many planes did they detroyed and how many of them were destroyed, pilots' scores, etc etc...




http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:38 PM
Veltro25 wrote:
- Hi my name is Amaru , and I am an Veltroholic
-
-
- Yes is a huge need of italian beauties in FB,
- specially the C.200 & 202, the Br.20 isn`t a ugly
- plane, and I´d be nicve to have some SM.82 for
- transport( a lot were used with TG 1 & 4) along the
- Ca.311M and the Br20M as part of the Italian Ari
- corps in Russia. lets hope 4 the best, regards
-
-
-
- Veltro 25


Hi AMaru, thanx for supporting us! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Where are you from, btw?



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:40 PM
fjuff79 wrote:
-
- SORRY /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
-
- Am I upsetting yuo for real?
-
- if so
- I will take them away when posting here.

I didn't see them... are they so bad?! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 08:09 PM
mmm i love pecorino romano.... so good. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 12:10 AM
BUMP/

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 03:12 AM
dai ragazzi parliamo troppo del fromaggio e del vino
adesso per me e' l'ora di cena, allora un po' di pesto Zenese (dialeto significa Genovese)

for you english speakers

come on, too much talk about about cheese and wine right now for me its dinner time and therefore I think a little pesto from Genoa is in order

speaking of Genoa I'm pretty sure Ansaldo made several different prototypes for aircraft durring ww2 but I don't think any of them were put into service. Can anyone give me the names of the Ansaldo planes from the world war 2 period?

also I found a site with a Br. 20 (and a bunch of other planes) but unfortuanetly it was done for CFS-2 anyway here's the link

http://www.isoliti4gatti.com/

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 10:49 AM
s.s.m. wrote:
- speaking of Genoa I'm pretty sure Ansaldo made
- several different prototypes for aircraft durring
- ww2 but I don't think any of them were put into
- service. Can anyone give me the names of the Ansaldo
- planes from the world war 2 period?


Here is the Ansaldo 4C, but they never managed to make it fly! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://web.tiscali.it/no-redirect-tiscali/borzacchini/IMMAGINI/FOTOPILOTA/ansaldo.jpg



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 05:30 PM
As I said, and as requested by Cippacometa, I've subscribed my request for new planes and scenarios in ORR, and obviously I've choose italian aircraft and Mediterranean theatre.
Now I'm thinking... if really the next sim will cover Italy, Med and desert war, then there will be no room for russian aircraft...so we can finally fight versus normal aircraft, and not TIE fighters!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
ciao
Pag

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 05:53 PM
Hi,

thanks I am from Peru, and currently I am building an SM.79 for a model kit contest, (it would be the next saturtay)maybe can post pics later,with the #1 trophy, jejeje, best regards.


Veltro25

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 05:55 PM
Piero57 wrote:
- The MC 205
- was an all-round performer,better for low-medium
- altitudes,and a sturdy plane;the G 55 was the best
- high alt interceptor, they both were a though match
- for P 51 and late Spits, and far superior than all
- others Allied planes;
- Accounts from pilots say that the G.55 was the best
- for high alt bombers intercept, superior to the K
- version of Bf 109,while the MC 205 was the perfect
- dogfighter...;-)
- Salute....!!
- I can provide all numbers you'll need,pilot
- names,statistics etc..etc.. about the ANR.

AcesHigh, Warbirds and IL-2 introduced the Macchis in their planesets. However the G.55 and the Re2005 are almost unknown to US/UK players and to sim developers.

Be careful, the late Spitfire IX models, the P-51D, the P-47D and the P-38H and L could fly circles around those few C.205 and the very few G.55 equipped with faulty radios and without radar vectors. Especially above 20K and interceptions were made at those altitudes against B-24 and B-17 formations.

Yes, the C.205 and the G.55 were very good mid '43 fighters, far superior to the 109G-5 and early G-6 armed with wing gondolas. The 190A-5 was superior to both italian aircraft but was not good for high alt interceptions. However, since the end of 1943, early 1944, those italian beauties could not match the new P-51s and the others high alt and speed USAF fighters.

Best regards /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 06:42 PM
You jokin' here don't you?

"Be careful, the late Spitfire IX models, the P-51D,
- the P-47D and the P-38H and L could fly circles
- around those few C.205 and the very few G.55
- equipped with faulty radios and without radar
- vectors. Especially above 20K and interceptions were
- made at those altitudes against B-24 and B-17
- formations."

Apart from the numbers that were as always in advantage of Allies,the only plane of those you mentioned who could out turn the 205 was the P51,in a dogfight the P47 was a sitting duck,its only chance was energy fighting, dive shot and dive away faster...,the Spit IX was nothin that superior,the problem was the spare parts shortage,due to sabotage,and heavy bombings,so the Groups could never scramble in whole formations,and late on ,the USAAF,very anoied from the performance of ANR,started a low-alt strafing campaign against the most Southern airfields,pushing far back the menace,about radar coverage you are wrong again, since the Luftwaffe provided that, and ANR adopted LW standards and formation flights,from the beginning.Of course they were a few...but they hurt!!
I'm gonna scan some B/W pictures next days:
Cpt. Ugo Drago: 1_P38 4_P47 2_P51 1_B24 1_B25 1_Boston(RAF) 1Marauder(RAF)
Cpt. Mario Bellagambi: 1_P47 1_P51 1_B24 1_b25 3_Boston(RAF) 2_Marauder(RAF) 1_Spitfire
Maj. Adriano Visconti: 1_P38 3_P47 1_B17 1_B24 1_Boston(RAF)
Sgt maj Sanson Attilio: 2_P47 2_Boston(RAF) 2_Spitfire
This based on confirmed only ,in the LW style,seem small numbers, but war is never like Films,if they adopted American way of victory attribution they may have 10 times more... ;-)
See you babies

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 10:29 PM
No, I'm not joking. You should know better that from 1943, due to the high speed of the new fighter generation, the turning fight was mostly abandoned. P-51 and the P-47 pilots adopted Hit & Run tactics. They didnt need to turn with Macchi or 109G, they simply bounced them from high alt and in great numbers.

The turnfight (turn & burn style, that is) is good for furballers in flight sims, not in the real thing.

The P-51 could outturn a Macchi only in a high speed dogfight and using combat flaps.

The Spitfire IX could out-climb and out-turn easily the Macchi and the G.55, give a look at their respective wingloads. The Spitfire IX was much faster of both italian fighters at high altitudes. The only advantage of the Macchi was her superior speed but only at medium-low alt. Late variants were even much better.

The P-47 a sitting duck? Oh boy! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif In the real thing no one stallfighted at 100ft the way you do in a flight sim. A well trained P-47 squadron at high altitude was probably unbeatable for any Macchi or Fiat Squadriglia. No need for them to come down on the deck, slow down and turnfight with italian pilots.

Yes, those few ANR pilots were daring and tough boys but were few, always outnumbered, bounced from above and without coordination. Luftwaffe provided very few radar coverage for italian pilots and they never reached Luftwaffe standards as far as training, coordination, aircraft manteinance and skills are concerned.

BTW Piero, stop reading Nino Arena /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Best regards!


Piero57 wrote:
- You jokin' here don't you?
- Apart from the numbers that were as always in
- advantage of Allies,the only plane of those you
- mentioned who could out turn the 205 was the P51,in
- a dogfight the P47 was a sitting duck,its only
- chance was energy fighting, dive shot and dive away
- faster...,the Spit IX was nothin that superior,the
- problem was the spare parts shortage,due to
- sabotage,and heavy bombings,so the Groups could
- never scramble in whole formations,and late on ,the
- USAAF,very anoied from the performance of
- ANR,started a low-alt strafing campaign against the
- most Southern airfields,pushing far back the
- menace,about radar coverage you are wrong again,
- since the Luftwaffe provided that, and ANR adopted
- LW standards and formation flights,from the
- beginning.Of course they were a few...but they
- hurt!!



Message Edited on 09/22/0311:44PM by Saetta

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 11:13 AM
Saetta wrote:
- BTW Piero, stop reading Nino Arena /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Nice discussion, Piero & Saetta!
By the way, who is Nino Arena? (I'm not living anymore in Italy, so I have forgotten some stuff... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ).


http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 12:18 PM
Nino Arena's books are full of inaccuracies, inflated kill rosters and fascist rethoric. You can easily understand how biased is his view of ANR pilots behaviour /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If you wanna read more balanced books about ANR pilots take a look at "Air War Italy" from Ferdinando D'Amico or "Combat Kill" by Hugh Morgan and Jurgen Seibel. Two good books.

Anyway, the series 5 fighters were probably among the best fighters and bomber interceptor during early-mid 1943.


However, we couldnt (and somebody did not want) produce them in good numbers, radios were not very good, pilots were few, training was poor and combat tactics were obsolete.

Fiat didnt want to produce the C.205 to push his G.55 and to continue to produce the old CR42 biplane. Yes, Fiat aircraft factories still produced CR42 biplanes when they were supposed to switch to Series 5 production, can you believe it? I'm sure you can /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Cippacometa wrote:

- By the way, who is Nino Arena? (I'm not living
- anymore in Italy, so I have forgotten some stuff...


Message Edited on 09/23/0302:52PM by Saetta

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 12:58 PM
Saetta wrote:
- Fiat aircraft factories still produced
- CR42 biplanes when they were supposed to switch to
- Series 5 production, can you believe it? I'm sure
- you can /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I can, I can... It's because of this kind of "nonsense-work" stuff that I had to quit Italy for France... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

You know what English and Americans say about the meaning of FIAT? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
FIAT = Failed Italian Attempt to Technology /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif (that's quite unfair, anyway! Come on, they managed to make some good stuff! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).


http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 07:43 PM
:-) Saetta i'm not relying only on Nino Arena books believe me, let alone agreeing with any "rethoric fascist revanscism"...;-) got a lot of different sources,and there's not a big figures difference about this matter, anyway,even Allied sources are more often than not "over estiming" or deliberately changin' the facts..so...:-)
That's because i read as many history sources as i can,just to catch the balance.Italian industry(and establishment of course) in WWII was so unprepared and corrupted from the roots,that good projects (Reggiane docet) were put away simply to favour private interests...no need to name who
or wich :-)....it's important however put in right evidence the courage and dedication that those pilots showed,no matter if they were in the ANR or with the South Gov.,even if they had sparse resources,poor guide and no support...one thing they did not lacked..COURAGE...!!
:-) :-) ;-)

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 03:11 AM
Thats right Pierro, well Nino Arena might be a bit biased but you can't readily discount all he has done.
Di Amico might be better but hasn't turn out as much stuff as Arena however Di Amico's books are excellent.

FIAT - Fix It Again Tony

FIAT really means

Fabrica Italiano Automobila Torino.

First Reggiane series of aircraft were rejected due to poor engine performance too if thats what you were implying when Fiat and Macchi series 1 got selected for production.
Don't forget Re2005. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 10:52 AM
pdog1 wrote:
- FIAT really means
-
- Fabrica Italiano Automobila Torino.

Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 12:37 PM
Any truth to the story that Messerschmitt (or was it another German manufacturer) thought about manufacturing the Macchi fighter(MC202???)?


http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/west-battleline.jpg



"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:11 PM
Yeah Cippacometa my italian really sucks.
Germans wanted to produce the Reggiane 2005, thats how much they were impressed by it.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:19 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
- Any truth to the story that Messerschmitt (or was it
- another German manufacturer) thought about
- manufacturing the Macchi fighter(MC202???)?
-
-
-

Never heard that before, but I'll make more researches and will add info if I'll find them. For sure, LW was interested in the Fiat G55 because, unlike the 109, it was fit to mount the powerful, but more cumbersome, DB603. The end of the war put an end to that project.

Concerning D'Amico's book, I highly suggest that reading.

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:27 PM
For those interested in the ANR, here's a nice link with some good 205's and G55's picts.
In the second page there are further picts of ANR 109s

http://digilander.libero.it/torpedoclub/sub116.htm

enjoy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<FONT COLOR="yellow">BBB_ABRAXA</FONT>

<center>http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/mc205_3.jpeg </center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red"> Si vis pacem, para bellum</FONT></marquee>

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:38 PM
I was not sure if it was a Macchi or another Italian a/c - just trying to jog some memories./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Abraxa wrote:

-
- Never heard that before, but I'll make more
- researches and will add info if I'll find them. For
- sure, LW was interested in the Fiat G55 because,
- unlike the 109, it was fit to mount the powerful,
- but more cumbersome, DB603. The end of the war put
- an end to that project.
-


http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/west-battleline.jpg



"Only a dead 'chamber pot' is a good 'chamber pot'!"

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:44 PM
MiloMorai wrote:
- Any truth to the story that Messerschmitt (or was it
- another German manufacturer) thought about
- manufacturing the Macchi fighter(MC202???)?
-


The Re.2002 "Ariete II" (considered the best fighter-bomber and attack plane of Regia Aeronautica) was considered to be put in production by Germans (don't know by which manufacturer). In fact, in 1943 the Luftwaffe decided to develop a version of the Re.2002 powered by the BMW engine (the same of early FW.190-As). While this plan was never carried out, of the total 255 aircrafts produced, 149 were for the Regia and the remaining 106 for the LW.


Specifications (Reggiane Re.2002 Serie III Ariete II "Ram II"):

Type: single seat, single engine fighter-bomber

Design: Eng. Antonio Alessio and Roberto Longhi of Officine Meccaniche Reggiane S.A. (Caproni) in Reggio Emilia, Italy. Based on their previous Re.2001 "Ariete" design and the necessity to use a radial engine.

Engine: One 1,175 hp Piaggio P.XIX RC.45 radial engine.

Performance: Maximum speed 531 km/h @ 5,487 m.

Range: 1,105 km with internal fuel.

Weight: Empty 2,390 kg; maximum take-off weight 3,650 kg.

Dimensions: Wingspan 11.00 m; length 8.20 m; height 3.15 m; wing area 20.40 m2

Armament: Two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns in the engine cowl; either two 7.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns or two MG151/20 20 mm cannons in the wings; one 640 kg bomb.


PICS:

Reggiane Re.2002 "Ariete II", 1942

http://www.uploadit.org/files/240903-Re2002_Ariete_II_Profilo.jpg


A Re.2002 of the Aeronautica Cobelligerante (after the Armistice of September 9, 1943 ):

http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia1/Re2002-1.jpg


A Luftwaffe Re.2002:

http://www.regiaaeronautica.it/immagini/aerei/caccia/re2002_2.jpg



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

Message Edited on 09/24/0301:45PM by Cippacometa

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:52 PM
pdog1 wrote:
- Yeah Cippacometa my italian really sucks.

No hay problema! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif (That's Spanish, anyway!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

- Germans wanted to produce the Reggiane 2005, thats
- how much they were impressed by it.

I didn't know that also the Saggittario was thought to be put in production in Germany. I only knew about the Ariete II. It sounds strange all this interest of germans only for Reggiane aircrafts.... maybe Mr. Reggiane's wife was german?!?! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:53 PM
Thats really interesting.
With absolutely no disrespect meant I have to ask you Italian birds fans, what was so special about the Re2002 that made the LW want to produce it?

Looks like somewhat normal specs concerning speed, HP, bombload and armament.

S!

<center>



http://www.fornberg.com/mystery0074.jpg
</center>
<center>
<div style="width:400;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=4)">
Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder


Message Edited on 09/24/0302:53PM by Fornixx

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 02:20 PM
Fornixx wrote:
- Thats really interesting.
- With absolutely no disrespect meant I have to ask
- you Italian birds fans, what was so special about
- the Re2002 that made the LW want to produce it?
-
- Looks like somewhat normal specs concerning speed,
- HP, bombload and armament.

S!
I believe because it was a sturdy, quite simple and reliable a/c, thus well suited for attack and fighter-bombing (JABO) role...


http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

Message Edited on 09/24/0302:21PM by Cippacometa

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 02:33 PM
Yes, it was a very good ground attack plane, the Italian Co-Belligrent air force used it with great success against german ground units in Yugoslavia.
It could be used as a dive bomber, was faster than Stuka and could manuever well to evade fire.

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 02:39 PM
Cippacometa wrote:
- Fornixx wrote:
-- Thats really interesting.
-- With absolutely no disrespect meant I have to ask
-- you Italian birds fans, what was so special about
-- the Re2002 that made the LW want to produce it?
--
-- Looks like somewhat normal specs concerning speed,
-- HP, bombload and armament.
-
- S!
- I believe because it was a sturdy, quite simple and
- reliable a/c, thus well suited for attack and
- fighter-bombing (JABO) role...
-

OK thx! It sure looks sturdy. Kinda like a Zero on steroids /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Anyone know how it did in the JA (of the JABO)department? Good armament, good manouverability sounds like a fine dogfighter once the eggs are dropped.

S!

<center>



http://www.fornberg.com/mystery0074.jpg
</center>
<center>
<div style="width:400;color:F0FFFF;fontsize:11pt;filter: glow[color=black,strength=4)">
Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 04:42 PM
Oh, the germans were much more interested in producing the G.55 Centauro. At that time no 109G-6 with 20mm mounted in wing gondolas could match his performance and firepower (in terms of ammo load) at high altitude.

Moreover, they watched with interest what the DB603 engined G.55 (called the G.56) did during trial tests. The G.56 was in fact the only Series 5 italian fighter able to mount the mighty 1,750hp Daimler Benz engine without modifications. Two prototypes were built. During tests the G.56 reached about 440mph TAS at 23K with very good climb perfo. The massive armament was still there: 3x20mm and 2x12,7mm.

Allied bombing campaign destroyed prototypes and production lines. Less nightmares for B17 and B24 crews indeed /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 11:47 PM
SO, in summary: Re.2002, Re.2005 and G.55 were so good that germans wanted to produce them!

Re.2002: little sturdy JABO
Re.2005: flyed amazingly weel
G.55: the big guy with big engine and big guns

Sounds good! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

...today I feel like: http://forums.ubi.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:55 AM
If somebody doesnt put me in an Italian plane soon....
Im going to kill someone!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 03:13 PM
lazio5 wrote:
- If somebody doesnt put me in an Italian plane
- soon....
- Im going to kill someone!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


Servito!
Caproni Stipa!
100% made in Italy!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/farmer/120/stipa2.jpg



http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg

Message Edited on 09/26/0303:18PM by Cippacometa

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 05:03 PM
wow... I had no idea the Germans ever considered producing anything Italian, or at least producing it out of Italy

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 05:16 PM
s.s.m. wrote:
- wow... I had no idea the Germans ever considered
- producing anything Italian, or at least producing it
- out of Italy

After they tried it, they wanted it !


http://www.uploadit.org/files/290903-FIAT_G55_nazi_picc.jpg



How could they resist without this beauty?!?! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 06:23 AM
bump

----------------------------------------
http://www.x-plane.org/users/butcherbird/UW.jpg

The Offical Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200 whiner

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 04:58 PM
Actually, Cippa, I remember reading somewhere that German fighter pilots who tried the Macchi C.205 really liked it, but also that they described the Fiat G.55 as "a tired old ship". It is a fact that the G.55 was optimized as a high altitude fighter and did not perform well in the middle to low altitude engagements that were the norm in the Italian theatre in 1944.

Said that, flyable Italian planes in FB are very sorely missed... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 05:13 PM
SUPERAEREO wrote:
- Said that, flyable Italian planes in FB are very
- sorely missed...

Agreed! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- Actually, Cippa, I remember reading somewhere that
- German fighter pilots who tried the Macchi C.205
- really liked it, but also that they described the
- Fiat G.55 as "a tired old ship". It is a fact that
- the G.55 was optimized as a high altitude fighter
- and did not perform well in the middle to low
- altitude engagements that were the norm in the
- Italian theatre in 1944.

Can you provide some documentation about this?
I mean, pilots' feedbacks about how those a/c flied, and stuff like this. It would be welcome by our community!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/170903-G55_Firma.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-14-2003, 07:32 PM
Going mad trying to find where I got that quotation from, I am sure it was an English edition but I just cannot find the right book! I could only find some mention of what the Germans thought of the G.55 in "Air War Italy 1944-45" by Beale-D'Amico-Valentini, but it only stresses again that the Germans re-equipped the II G.C. with Bf.109 because they thought it inferior to the Messerschmitt.

Finding pilots' reports for those planes is not at all easy. Test pilots reports are available, but we all know that often there is a big difference between a prototype and the production models...

Sorry Cippa, I'll make a posting if I find the right book but unfortunately a fair portion of my library is in storage right now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif