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View Full Version : Stealth/movement feedback [potential for SPOILERS]



D.I.D.
11-13-2014, 04:01 PM
[MODS - Why is there no Sticky thread for feedback this year, of all years?]

Euro PC customer, just a short way into the game.

The movement is in many ways greatly improved. I'm really impressed with the new parkour acrobatics, and the weird new diagonal leaps and connecting moves. I hadn't thought of the parkour as being restrictive before, but these moves add a huge amount of freedom. Everyone involved in that deserves praise.

There are just a couple of things I'd like to see changed, and they're fairly small. I know patches usually fix technical problems and not mechanical ones, but while the game is beautiful I do wish they'd do something about the crouch stealth. It was clearly released unfinished.

We need to be able to crouch, take cover, and move around the corner of the cover object. It's bizarre that you have to "unstick" yourself from an object, stand up, walk around the corner, and then crouch and re-stick yourself to the new plane. There is no way this was how the stealth was intended to work. Also, there is no way a player using no HUD can possibly use the stealth to go in and out of cover. I have to stare at the top right waiting to see the right words on the button prompt, pushing the stick around to get the right selection. It's bad. Watch Dogs did this right, and I never had to think too hard about how it worked (plus it put the "corner" and "switch cover" prompts right where I was looking).

The second thing I noticed when taking the wrong route in the church mission of the early part of Sequence 2. There's the route you're meant to take, across the chandeliers, and I took a different one along the poles sticking out from the wall. They're connected to the walls by a mounting bracket with two thin horizontal shelves, one only a couple of inches below the other. It is not possible to move from the shelf to the pole if you fingers are on one of those shelves and not the other (I think the upper one was the problematic one, but I might be remembering wrongly - perhaps it is the lower one). The game needs to see a shared path from either one of those shelves to the pole. I've had a few other moments where Arno stops in his tracks and refuses to grab the next edge that's right next to him, but moving just a tiny amount away from his current position in the right direction will suddenly make it work. It leaves you feeling like you're fighting the controls, and it really hurts the joy of climbing around when you're paralysed and you don't know why it's happening.

There are a few things like this which fans of the series will overcome fairly easily because we've faced similar problems in past games, but new players might react much worse to them, and they're right to do so.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-13-2014, 04:08 PM
We need to be able to crouch, take cover, and move around the corner of the cover object. It's bizarre that you have to "unstick" yourself from an object, stand up, walk around the corner, and then crouch and re-stick yourself to the new plane.

Oh, it's fricken ridiculous. And it won't let you move from cover to cover. And sometimes if you're behind a ledge they still see you. You'd think they could at least get this cover stuff right, given that it works fine in Watch Dogs. Clearly it was never even close to ready and some idiot-in-charge just let it go out half-baked. I've given up even trying to get into cover. Instead, I just go in guns blazing and swords whirling.

I even think the day one patch broke it more, as the first time I played I remember being able to go around corners.

One thing I've found is that if you keep the left trigger held down, it will keep you in stealth mode and "sometimes" it sticks you into cover and unsticks you when you want to move. That's sometimes, if you're lucky. If you're unlucky you end up climbing whatever it is you're trying to hide behind and just stand there with a not-so-bright look on your face while the guards (who are similarly dozy) wander around without seeing you.

And to think they were saying we'd "have to use stealth more". That's a joke - it's virtually impossible to use stealth.

D.I.D.
11-13-2014, 04:18 PM
And to think they were saying we'd "have to use stealth more". That's a joke - it's virtually impossible to use stealth.

It's so strange that it makes me worry that they scaled back stealth for a reason, and it's not a good one. I hope I'm wrong about this, but...

There was no need for a stat-based stealth item in Watch Dogs. If you were good at using the system, it was all you'd ever need. I find it impossible to believe that nobody involved in AC thought of implementing the same system from Watch Dogs to its sister game, which leaves me wondering why they didn't do that. And then I see that massive menu of microtransactions for stealth stat boosts on items, and my heart sinks because I think, "Oh, Ubisoft. You didn't, did you? You didn't make a stealth system that intentionally doesn't work, one that would require the player to stand during movement, because you wanted us to buy equipment to extend the fade out of the stealth effect?"

I feel bad for thinking that way, but that's what happens when a game is drowning in reminders about financial shortcuts.

Pr0metheus 1962
11-13-2014, 04:36 PM
I think it's much more likely to be incompetence than design. After all, it's not just stealth that's porked - it's line-of-sight and movement in general (it's worse than the first release of AC3 - which I didn't think possible), and the Nomad chests, Initiates and the Companion app are all a bad joke.

It's hard to enjoy a game when just moving around is endlessly frustrating. Still, I am enjoying it when the cutscenes arrive and I can just sit back and watch. I guess it's a sad commentary on a game, when the thing I enjoy most is when I'm watching and not actively playing.

JustPlainQuirky
11-13-2014, 04:38 PM
And sometimes if you're behind a ledge they still see you.

by far the biggest issue with Unity IMO


and the Nomad chests, Initiates and the Companion app are all a bad joke.

That's what I've been saying but so many peeps were like "naaaaaaaah it's fiiiiiiine you'll see"

D.I.D.
11-13-2014, 05:12 PM
That's what I've been saying but so many peeps were like "naaaaaaaah it's fiiiiiiine you'll see"

I was one of the "wait and see" people. Well, I waited, and I saw :(

SenseHomunculus
11-13-2014, 05:26 PM
I was one of the "wait and see" people. Well, I waited, and I saw :(

I was, too, same boat.

Versailles I thought worked really well all around which was my first few hours of gameplay. In Paris is where I started noticing all the problems.

D.I.D.
11-17-2014, 03:09 AM
UBISOFT. Seriously. The final boss fight.

I don't mind a tough boss fight. I don't mind an irritating boss fight. That's fine.

This, though. You made this fight dependent on the one mechanic that doesn't work: getting behind cover, moving out of cover, moving back into cover. The least enjoyable part of your whole game, and you made it the finale.

THEN YOU PUT A SPEECH ON IT. So I could get used to hearing the same things over and over again. Because that makes it better.

"Revenge, is it?" is still echoing in my head.

I reckon you knew you'd done it as well, since you put a fast forward option on the trailer.

All the stuff leading up to that was really good. I loved every major assassination, and they are an immeasurable improvement on every game previous to this. The series has always struggled with conveying the concept of assassination, to the point where I wondered if the format of the game could ever handle it. I guess that must have been killing you, too, knowing what needed to be done but that you simply couldn't do it on the old gen machines.

Lighting was absolutely stunning this time, as well. Night time really looked like night time: properly dark, with just the right amount of visibility from the gentle glow of the street lamps. I loved that sickly yellow tinge you introduced over the final days, to give a visual indication that the story was rolling up to its end.

It's even more of a pity that this game will be remembered as a bad one, when it absolutely is not. Even with its current rough edges, you made something phenomenal here. I still can't disagree with the reviews, since their job was to advise people against a purchase they might regret, and they were right to do that, but I hope you'll manage some kind of second sales push down the line? The game deserves so much more recognition that it will get.

PS (SPOILER FOR UNITY ENDING) Maria. Cristina. Lucy. Connor's mother. Mary Read. Caroline, Élise. If you're a young, pretty woman who is loved by the main male character, your odds of survival are zero unless your name is Sofia. It was already looking weird, and now it's really weird. Please stop killing off women simply so that your male star can haz a sad!

Pr0metheus 1962
11-17-2014, 04:45 AM
UBISOFT. Seriously. The final boss fight...

Yeah, seriously. It took me something like 10 tries to do this, and each time he killed me, it was through Arno standing up to get to another cover point and then either just getting stuck or jumping ON TOP of the cover walls, doing "jazz hands" and yelling "Wheee! Look at me - I'm right here".

So frustrating. At least I got full synch so I never have to see that mission again.


PS (SPOILER FOR UNITY ENDING) Maria. Cristina. Lucy. Connor's mother. Mary Read. Caroline, Élise. If you're a young, pretty woman who is loved by the main male character, your odds of survival are zero unless your name is Sofia. It was already looking weird, and now it's really weird. Please stop killing off women simply so that your male star can haz a sad!

Oh man! I think it's so misogynistic to use women to give the game a cheap emotional kick. It's almost like the writers at Ubisoft are channellng Jack the Ripper. I mean, why do they want to kill women characters so much? I think there's some sort of weird "medusa complex" going on there. On the other hand, they had to have Mary Read die, because she was a historical character and she really died in that prison.

I also agree with you that there is a good - potentially even great - game hiding under all these bugs and bad decisions. Hopefully the developers will realize that Arno is as interesting a character as Ezio was, and he'll get a sequel. I'd love to see him during the Napoleonic Wars. But if Arno is to have the second chance that he deserves, Ubisoft have to squash all these bugs and get the game working decently, and quick.

TacoOoMonster
11-17-2014, 04:47 AM
A few games they could take cover inspiration from, some of them Ubisoft's own games:

1)Splinter Cell Conviction
2)Mass Effect 3
3)Watch dogs
4)Gears of War

Pr0metheus 1962
11-17-2014, 05:32 AM
Watch Dogs has a great cover system. Why on Earth they didn't just copy that is a mystery to me.