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View Full Version : Was FW190 ever tested with DB engine ?



Saburo_0
06-16-2004, 10:25 AM
Always wondered, thought it'd be a killer combo, so if you have any info please share.
Thanks

Saburo_0
06-16-2004, 10:25 AM
Always wondered, thought it'd be a killer combo, so if you have any info please share.
Thanks

DeBaer.534
06-16-2004, 10:39 AM
definetly, germans tested almost everything http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/FW190V18.htm

faustnik
06-16-2004, 10:39 AM
The Fw190C was tested with the DB603. It lost out to the Jumo powered Fw190D in trials.

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Ruy Horta
06-16-2004, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saburo_0:
Always wondered, thought it'd be a killer combo, so if you have any info please share.
Thanks<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The DB 603 was actually the engine prefered by Kurt Tank to increase the performance of his design, however the RLM insisted on the Jumo 213 being used instead.

The D-14, later D-15 was designed to make use of the DB 603, but did not pass the prototype stage (V76 & V77). A missed opportunity...

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Ruy Horta

DeBaer.534
06-16-2004, 11:33 AM
its all because with the fw using jumos and the bf using dbs you can build more planes because you can use the whole present manufacturing capacity.
there were production machines build for every engine, which you cant just throw away in a war.

ASM 1
06-16-2004, 03:02 PM
Ta 152C/C-1/C-2/C-3

Series production orders for the Ta 152C were finally placed in October 1944, the delays being a result of the Luftwaffe still continuing to support the Jumo 213E, even over Kurt Tanks pressing for permission to use the DB 603 engine in the Ta 152, owing to its superiority over the Jumo 213E at high altitudes. Although the Luftwaffe still insisted that the Jumo 213E remain the primary Ta 152 powerplant, it permitted Tank to begin work on a DB 603-powered version under the designation Ta 152C.

The Ta 152C with the lighter DB 603 engine was otherwise identical to the Ta 152B. It was considered primarily as a Zerstorer. The MW 50 boost installation for the enhancement of low-altitude performance was standard. An Fw 190D prototype had been rebuilt and flown with a DB 603 engine in support of the Ta 152C program, and this plane took to the air for the first time in October 1944. During December 1944 and January 1945, the first Ta 152C-O service test aircraft joined the test program. The definitive production version was to be the Ta 152C-1, and it was hoped that the first examples could be rolling off the production lines in April of 1945. However, series production of the Ta 152C was only just beginning when Allied forces overran the assembly plants, so this fighter never entered service with the Luftwaffe.

The Ta 152C-1 was powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 603LA twelve-cylinder liquid cooled engine rated at 2,100 hp (1567 kW) or (2,300 hp (1716 kW) with MW 50 boost) for takeoff and 1,750 hp (1305 kW) at 29,530 feet (1,900 hp (1417 kW) at 27,560 feet with MW 50 boost). Armed with one engine-mounted 30 mm MK 108 cannon with 90 rounds, two fuselage-mounted 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 250 rpg, and two wing-mounted 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 175 rpg. Maximum speed was 227 mph (365 km/h) at sea level (356 mph (572 km/h) with MW 50 boost), 436 mph (701 km/h) at 37,730 feet (460 mph (740 km/h) at 32,810 feet with MW 50 boost). Initial climb rate was 3050 feet per minute and service ceiling was 40,350 ft (12300 m). Weights were 8,849 lbs empty, 10,658 lbs normal loaded, and 11,733 pounds maximum. Wingspan was 36 feet 1 inch, length was 35 feet 6 1/2 inches, height was 11 feet 1 inch, and wing area was 290.89 square feet. The Ta 152C-2 was similiar to the Ta 152C-1 but it had an improved radio and four MG 151/20 cannon instead of the C-1s two. The Ta 152C-3 was identical to the Ta 152C-2 with the exception that the MK 108 cannon was replaced with a MK 103 cannon.

From:
http://www.kotfsc.com/thunderbolt/ta-152.htm

S!

Andrew

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ASM 1
06-16-2004, 03:06 PM
I wouldnt mind a C3 in ACES http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

S!

Andrew

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WTE_Galway
06-16-2004, 06:41 PM
as a matter of interest

someone .. I think the hungarians put DB engines into captured spitfires (being rather difficult to order merlin parts at the time) and found an across the board improvement in performance over the merlin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

here is a pic

http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/xplane/spitdb605-i.jpg

[This message was edited by WTE_Galway on Wed June 16 2004 at 05:51 PM.]

[This message was edited by WTE_Galway on Wed June 16 2004 at 05:52 PM.]

VOL_Hans
06-16-2004, 07:37 PM
Ahh yes, the classic DB-Spit!

Would be interesting to get that into AEP, since we have planes with even lower production numbers in the game...

[Bf-109Z!]

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Zyzbot
06-16-2004, 07:53 PM
Found this info about the re-engined Spitfire:


"After the Merlin engine was removed, it was discovered that the Spitfire's front fuselage cross-section was very close to that of the standard Bf.110G's engine cowling. A new engine support was designed, and a standard DB 605A-1 engine (Wk-Nr 00701990) was mounted to the fire wall. The work was completed at the Sindelfingen Daimler-Benz factory, near Echterdingen.

A 3.0 m. diameter Bf.109G propeller was added, together with the carburettor scoop from a Bf.109G. This made the modified Spitfire's all-up weight, without armament, 6,020 lb. (2730 kg). The armament weight was an estimated additional 661 lb. (300 kg.). Its weight with armament, before the engine modification, had been 6,680 lb. (3030 kg.).

After a couple of weeks, and with a new yellow-painted nose, the Spitfire returned to Echterdingen. Ellenreider was the first to try the aircraft. He was stunned that the aircraft had much better visibility and handling on the ground than the Bf.109. It took off before he realised it and had an impressive climb rate, around 70 ft. (21 m.) per second. Much of the Spitfire's better handling could be attributed to its lower wing loading.

The Spitfire's wing area was about 54 sq. ft. (5m‚¬≤) greater than that of the Bf.109. The Messerschmitt was faster at low altitude, but at 11,000 ft. (3350 m) the speeds evened out. The DB 605A engine gave better performance, according to the test group, than the Merlin, which was rated 150 hp below the German engine. It gave the Spitfire a ceiling of 41,666 ft. (12700 m.), about 3,280 ft. (1000 m.) more than a Bf.109G with the same engine and 5,166 ft. (1475 m.) more than that of a Spitfire Mk.V.

After a brief period at Rechlin confirming the performance data, the modified Spitfire returned to Echterdingen to serve officially as a test bed. It was popular with the pilots in and out of working hours. Its career ended on 14th August, 1944, when a formation of US bombers attacked Echterdingen, wrecking two Ju.52s, three Bf.109Gs, a Bf.109H V1, an FW.190 V16, an Me.410 and the Spitfire. The remains of the hybrid Spitfire were scrapped at the Klemm factory at B√¬∂blingen."

WTE_Galway
06-16-2004, 09:35 PM
yeah

after a bit of google searching looks like i was confusing it with the DB601 Hurricane which was done by the Royal Yugoslav Air Force (JKRV) early in the war.

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/hurricane.php

Interestingly, as with the DB spitfire, the DB powered Hurricane outperformed both the 109 the engine belonged to as well as the origianl Merlin powered Hurricane.

In both cases the DB power plant in the British airframe gave a hybrid that outperformed either original (as opposed to the Hispano merlin powered 109's)