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hughlb2
06-20-2004, 04:02 AM
You know all the debris that comes off an aircraft when its being pumped full of rounds (chunks of metal etc), how much of a threat was it to the pursuing (attacking) aircraft's engine/pilot in WW2?

hughlb2
06-20-2004, 04:02 AM
You know all the debris that comes off an aircraft when its being pumped full of rounds (chunks of metal etc), how much of a threat was it to the pursuing (attacking) aircraft's engine/pilot in WW2?

CaptainGelo
06-20-2004, 04:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hughlb2:
You know all the debris that comes off an aircraft when its being pumped full of rounds (chunks of metal etc), how much of a threat was it to the pursuing (attacking) aircraft's engine/pilot in WW2?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I rad in JG-26 Luftw. aces book about one who was shotdown on his FW by canopies from p47 that he just shotdown http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif heard here on the forum that hartman had to bail few times cuz of that.......think it wasn big problem unless u come close to enemy a/c.....have you seen pearl harbor movie?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''
http://www.danasoft.com/sig/oleg86.jpg
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''


plane is 2slow, guns are 2weak and DM suck?...Then click here (http://www.hmp16.com/hotstuff/downloads/Justin%20Timberlake%20-%20Cry%20Me%20A%20River.mp3) | Fear british army. (http://216.144.230.195/Videos/Medium_WMP8/British_Attack.wmv)

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Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when they come for you..

Sam_the_greek
06-20-2004, 07:24 AM
Yeah I saw Pearl Harbor, don't ya think that was just a bit over the top when he hammered the ME, I think so. Although I did see a movie somewhere a long time ago in which a piece of plane(think aileron) was blown of and made a nasty collision with the attacker. Nasty indeed!!

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ilsigs/spitfire.jpg

G├┬Âring: "Gibt es noch etwas das ich f├╝r Sie tun kan?"
Galland: "Jawul Herr Feldmarschalk, geben Sie mir ein Staffel Spitfires!"
"The Battle of Britain"

Call_me_Kanno
06-20-2004, 10:11 AM
I don't think the little debri will do any damage but a rudder, wing or the bigger pieces will. I've been taken out by a large piece of debri shot off a plane quite aways above me when I ran into it while it was falling.

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Kanno/Sig.jpg

BennyMoore
06-20-2004, 04:19 PM
A bird can cripple a plane. I think that a hunk of steel the size of a baseball would do the same thing, do you not?

Call_me_Kanno
06-20-2004, 04:29 PM
ooops, the subject is about REAL small debri and damage. My thinking is it would play havoc with props, windscreens and such but heck what do I know about it. Thought the question was, is it modeled in FB.

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Kanno/Sig.jpg

WTE_Galway
06-20-2004, 08:43 PM
bear in mind the debri if you are pounding a plane from its six is initially moving at much the same velocity as you and the target aircraft so there would be little KE involved

on the other hand debri that is falling or worse from a plane travelling towards you should in theory do a lot more damage

Salfordian
06-21-2004, 05:13 AM
I think it might be I had a quick do at the P51 vs V1 mission the other night, and I nailed it from behind with my guns. After the explosion and flying through a load of bits I had damage to the wings and engine. Then again it may just have been the explosive effect of that warhead going off.

hughlb2
06-21-2004, 05:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Salfordian:
I think it might be I had a quick do at the P51 vs V1 mission the other night, and I nailed it from behind with my guns. After the explosion and flying through a load of bits I had damage to the wings and engine. Then again it may just have been the explosive effect of that warhead going off.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely to be the explosive effective of the warhead going off. I dont think small debris damage is modelled in FB.

Its interesting, there is a great deal of small debris that flys of an aircraft when its being hit with .50 or .303 weapons and you would think there would be a huge risk to early jets such as YP-80 from flying debris being sucked into the engines, its a pity this isn't modelled, avoiding debris would be a nice challengehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sam_the_greek
06-21-2004, 05:47 AM
Something for BoB perhaps. And another thing, when a plane is flying app. 300 km/h and it's wing gets shot of, shouldn't it drasticly slow down =&gt; danger of colliding with attacker??

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ilsigs/spitfire.jpg

G├┬Âring: "Gibt es noch etwas das ich f├╝r Sie tun kan?"
Galland: "Jawul Herr Feldmarschalk, geben Sie mir ein Staffel Spitfires!"
"The Battle of Britain"

Sam_the_greek
06-21-2004, 05:51 AM
Perhaps a nice feature for BoB. Also, if a plane going about 300 km/h and it gets its wing blow of, shouldn't it drasticly slow down, posing a realistic danger to the attacker(under the form of a collison of course)??
(reffering to Pearl Harbor)

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ilsigs/spitfire.jpg

G├┬Âring: "Gibt es noch etwas das ich f├╝r Sie tun kan?"
Galland: "Jawul Herr Feldmarschalk, geben Sie mir ein Staffel Spitfires!"
"The Battle of Britain"

Dimensionaut_
06-21-2004, 06:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
bear in mind the debri if you are pounding a plane from its six is initially moving at much the same velocity as you and the target aircraft so there would be little KE involved

on the other hand debri that is falling or worse from a plane travelling towards you should in theory do a lot more damage<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do not agree totally. It depends also on the shape of the object and how it's tumbling in the wind.

I know of a Dutch D.XXI pilot ejecting his canopy and it blew right into an engine of the attacking 110. The 110 crashed and thus the Dutch pilot was out of his bad situation and landed safely afterward.

The Dutch D.XXI (as in progress for FB by Viikate):
http://www.1java.org/BoF/234-4.jpg

<A HREF="http://www.1java.org/sh" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.uploadit.org/1javaserval/images.php
</A>

BennyMoore
06-21-2004, 07:11 AM
Sam, don't take anything Hollywood gives you and believe it.

Sam_the_greek
06-21-2004, 09:28 AM
Yeah, I thought someone would give that remark Benny. It's just the first example I could think of that a lot of people would know. Of cours it seriously overrated, butt still. How about my theorie??

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ilsigs/spitfire.jpg

G├┬Âring: "Gibt es noch etwas das ich f├╝r Sie tun kan?"
Galland: "Jawul Herr Feldmarschalk, geben Sie mir ein Staffel Spitfires!"
"The Battle of Britain"

ImpStarDuece
06-21-2004, 10:08 AM
I think that more debris should be represented but it would be pretty hard with the current engine. Wait for BoB, with more pollys and a better engine, then you may see what you want.

Still, i flew through an explosion in a 109E and found my plane rolling to the left sharply. Got back to base and noticed big holes in my wing from flying through an exploding TB-3s debris field.

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

horseback
06-21-2004, 10:33 AM
Since I usually just knock bits and pieces off my victims with most of my bursts, I often get within 60m before attempting to pull up or away; I often get 'fragged' by my victims' separating pieces, and explosions can be fatal. I should note that this happens most often after my evening beer, so I guess a little alcohol has a negative effect on my depth perception ...

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

azpilot
06-21-2004, 02:21 PM
AS for AC slowing with a wing blown off, i don't think there would be a drastic decelleration effect. While the removal of the wing would leave behind draggy parts of spars etc... The loss of the wings drag would probably cancel it out. I think the wingless AC would probably just tumble downwads.

StylezXP
06-21-2004, 03:25 PM
In "A thousand Shall Fall" which is the true story I am reading of a Canadian bomber pilot, a cadet carelessly discards a chocolate bar wrapper out the side of his craft. The wrapper was sucked into the engine area and suddenly it started revving really strange. It turns out the wrapper hit the prop at high speed and bent it just a little bit, however the revolution of the prop was fast enough that the wrapper ended up severely damaging the propeller to the point of replacement. So if a chocolate wrapper can do that, imagine what a chunk of aircraft aluminum/armor will do!

BennyMoore
06-23-2004, 03:02 AM
I have a track that I'd like to post here, but I am not able to.

In it, I fly a P-40 E with gun convergence set to one hundred meters. I fight a Zero on "ace" artificial intelligence level (which doesn't take much to beat even in a P-40 E). At the end, I vaporize his plane at extremely close range (about a plane length away), and one of two things happened. Either parts of his aircraft hit my plane and went into my engine, or the I was close enough to the explosion that it messed up my engine.

Would someone be so kind as to host this track for me? It isn't some sort of piloting skill bragfest (I exploited a deficiency of the artificial intelligence and didn't really outfly him). It's a demonstration of the damage model, and also it's basis for a question about the damage model as well. It's also quite short and is only three and twenty hundred kilobytes.

BennyMoore
06-23-2004, 07:26 PM
Hello?

panthercules
06-23-2004, 07:46 PM
As far as I know this damage effect from small debris is modelled in FB - aleast it was in original IL-2. Back when I was first learning/practicing in that I would routinely pull up in my Sturmovik behind some Ju-52s and pound away, marvelling at the stream of little debris particles trailing back from the damaged German transports and thinking "how cool is this?"

Then, inevitably, my engine would start running rough and trailing smoke as my plane was damaged by flying into the debris stream - no big explosions or huge chunks, just small bits and pieces being chewed off by my guns - leaving me thinking "whoa - how much cooler is this? - what a great game!"