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dimbismp
10-24-2014, 08:53 PM
So,i realised that almost all templars till now were male.Actually,Elise is the first "important" templar to date.And still,we don't know if she is important to the story just because she is the daughter of the former Grand Master and related to Arno or because she actually has a high rank.
Also,literally ALL main assassination targets of the series were men(if i am not mistaken).The female assassination targets must have been <10 and all of them were side missions,like templar hunts.Furthermore,all Grand Masters were men too.
I understand that women didn't play an important role back then,but i believe that the templar order is open-minded enough to have highranked female members.Also,there were some cool female characters,like Maria Thorpe,Ezio's mother,Claudia,Sofia,Anne bonny and of course Mary Read.I mean why can't Ubi create some awesome female templars for the sake of diversity?It wouldn't change much regarding gameplay and narrative...
(In all the above statements only the 6 main games are considered;not ACL or other spinoffs)
Thoughts?

SHADOWGARVIN
10-24-2014, 08:56 PM
I understand that women didn't play an important role back then,but i believe that the templar order is open-minded enough to have highranked female members.

Evidently the order isn't as open-mided as you would think.

hood3dassassin5
10-24-2014, 08:58 PM
Ubisoft is sexist. :D I've been wondering about that too. The only female assassination I know(And might be the ONLY one) Is in AC4 on the Templar Hunt in Nassau.

STDlyMcStudpants
10-24-2014, 08:59 PM
Ubisoft is sexist. :D I've been wondering about that too. The only female assassination I know(And might be the ONLY one) Is in AC4 on the Templar Hunt in Nassau.

Yeah because Ubisoft created the Templar order :rolleyes:
Why no women templars?
Because historically speaking there probably werent any lol

naumaan
10-24-2014, 09:00 PM
how many female templars did we kill ....

errr


there was one in ac1 .... disguised as robert de sable

lucrezia borgia in acb whom we didnt kill

no lady templar in acr and ac3

in ac4 ... the side missions of templar hunts have 2 ladies as targets.

seems like templars do not favor man woman equality .. :D

Megas_Doux
10-24-2014, 09:04 PM
Well, powerfull women were scarce centuries ago, at least in comparison to men. World was a different place those days.......

cawatrooper9
10-24-2014, 09:05 PM
Ubisoft has pointed out before that despite the fact that our modern society is thankfully approaching a more egalitarian standard, that hasn't been the case for most of history. So, while we do get some big female names like Caterina Sforza and Anne Bonny, they're more the exception than the rule.

hood3dassassin5
10-24-2014, 09:06 PM
Yeah because Ubisoft created the Templar order :rolleyes:
Why no women templars?
Because historically speaking there probably werent any lol

Good point...

There probably was little to none high-ranking women in the time periods we play in.Still, Ubisoft can make some female guards or female assassination targets or something. Look, we had female Assassins in Black Flag. I mean, it doesn't change the game or anything, but it does make it seem a little sexist on Ubisoft's side.

guardian_titan
10-24-2014, 09:14 PM
Madeline de l'Isle from Liberation was a woman and a Templar Grand Master. Also Maria Thorpe from AC1 and Lucrezia Borgia from ACB. There's the Chinese chick from AC, too. There are women Templars.

Thing is, historically, women were often ignored. Unless they did something great like Joan of Arc or were in high power like a queen, you don't really know much about what they did. Ubisoft adds women templars, they'd likely be made up just due to how few women we know about. There's maybe a handful from various events that can be named in comparison to droves of men for the same event. Realistically, you aren't going to run into a 50-50 split for historical games if you want to keep to historical characters. I don't see Ubisoft doing a lot of research just to find some obscure woman to add to the game just for equality, either. If they're not well known, they're not likely to be added. Case in point: Paul Revere wasn't the only one to do the midnight ride. Two others did it with him. There was also a young girl who did a ride herself on a different night. She has a statue in her home town today but I don't recall her name off hand. But beyond Paul Revere, how many can name the other two who also rode that night or the young girl? How many can name the women spies who worked with Benjamin Tallmadge during the Revolution? About the only woman from the era I'm sure most can name is Betsy Ross due to a story that's actually fake. Sacajawea is probably the next one from roughly the same era besides Martha Washington. How many men can we name from various eras compared to women? Men will always come out on top because they were recorded more frequently. Only way to see a 50-50 split or even a female dominated game would be a game set in the modern day, and I don't see that happening. Ancient Egypt or Greece might be more likely to have a 50-50 split, though. although even with those, we still know more about the men of those times than the women.

So realistically, how can Ubisoft add women if there are none that are real to add?

Hans684
10-24-2014, 09:15 PM
So,i realised that almost all templars till now were male.Actually,Elise is the first "important" templar to date.And still,we don't know if she is important to the story just because she is the daughter of the former Grand Master and related to Arno or because she actually has a high rank.
Also,literally ALL main assassination targets of the series were men(if i am not mistaken).The female assassination targets must have been <10 and all of them were side missions,like templar hunts.Furthermore,all Grand Masters were men too.
I understand that women didn't play an important role back then,but i believe that the templar order is open-minded enough to have highranked female members.Also,there were some cool female characters,like Maria Thorpe,Ezio's mother,Claudia,Sofia,Anne bonny and of course Mary Read.I mean why can't Ubi create some awesome female templars for the sake of diversity?It wouldn't change much regarding gameplay and narrative...
(In all the above statements only the 6 main games are considered;not ACL or other spinoffs)
Thoughts?

1. Most historical targets is guarantied be male becouse most know people is male, not gonna discuss sexism so if anyone hastily accuses me of something based on a single sentence I'm not gonna reply.

2. They are open minded but as seen with both orders, they prefer a sausage party. That is of course if a base the judgment of how many males there is in both orders instead of their ideals, conclusion, not a fair judgement. *cought*naumaan/SHADOW*cought*, sorry.

As for Grand Masters you are incorrect, there is one female Templar Grand Master, Aveline's step mother.

EmbodyingSeven5
10-24-2014, 09:20 PM
In AC Rogue. there seem to be a reasonable amount of randomly generate female assassins.


Guess Templars are sexist too..................................

This is coming from an assassin

Ureh
10-24-2014, 09:30 PM
Yeah most of the female templar agents are cordoned off to the multiplayer. Here are two character that kinda explains what happens to women born into the order:
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Ferreira_de_Ortega

Ferreira de Ortega was the daughter of the Spanish (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Spain) Templar (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Templars) Alejandro Estrada de Ortega. Unlike her brothers, who were groomed from an early age, Ferreira and her sisters were excluded from joining the order, instead destined for a domestic life.
At the age of seventeen, after being told she was to be married to a husband chosen by her parents, Ferreira ran away from home, breaking all ties with her family. From then on, she pursued a "life of adventure", plundering treasure from Mayan (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Mayans) ruins and engaging various pirates (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Piracy) in battle, becoming a fierce one herself.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Eleanor_Mallow


Eleanor Mallow was the daughter of a British military (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/British_Army) officer, Commander Matthew Davenport (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Matthew_Davenport), who enrolled in the British Army during the American Revolutionary War (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War).
Considered a brat, Eleanor lived a life that was heavily regimented in a military fashion by her Templar (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Templars) father. Because her devotion to the Templar Order was so absolute, she attempted to hide her identity and carried out missions against the Assassins (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassins), though Matthew secretly knew. Young, strong, and malleable, she was considered the fascist type that the Templars admired.

RA503
10-24-2014, 10:31 PM
is because templars are freemasons ...

at least in real life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGLJW0NgKU

BoBwUzHeRe1138
10-24-2014, 10:57 PM
Yeah because Ubisoft created the Templar order :rolleyes:
Why no women templars?
Because historically speaking there probably werent any lol

Yes, and historically speaking -- Templars have existed throughout all of history and continue to exist as a mega corporation called Abstergo too, huh?

RA503
10-24-2014, 11:02 PM
we have laetitia http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Laetitia_England

HoIcon
10-24-2014, 11:15 PM
is because templars are freemasons ...

at least in real life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGLJW0NgKU

The mention of the Holy Grail in that reminded me of the Chalice that Altair was tasked with retrieving in AC: Altair's chronicles
It turned out to be a woman, can't remember her name but she apparently had powers, she was taken by the Templars at the end of the game but Altair vowed to find her, she was also mentioned in AC by one of the informants who asked Altair if he'd found her, and last thing i remember of her was from Altair's codex where he's written that he'd found her but she;d been killed

i'll try find a wiki entry or something

EDIT: found her, her name was Adha http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Adha

SixKeys
10-24-2014, 11:43 PM
Almost none of the women named have been Templars. Madeline De L'Isle and the Chinese woman from AC4's Templar hunt were the only female Templars to be killed.

Historically it may be difficult to find female targets to assassinate in the games. Not impossible, though. And they could always have targets that ultimately don't get killed, like Lucrezia or the scarfaced pirate in AC4.

ze_topazio
10-25-2014, 12:00 AM
If we had more female targets websites like Polygon would go bananas about sexism and hidden intentions behind a man killing women with a phallic object and women being portrayed as evil.

I-Like-Pie45
10-25-2014, 12:22 AM
Sexism is a nonexistent entity and weapon of the liberal leftist government used to oppress those conservatives who would dare stand against their totalitarian dominance.

Locopells
10-25-2014, 12:24 AM
how many female templars did we kill ....

errr


there was one in ac1 .... disguised as robert de sable

lucrezia borgia in acb whom we didnt kill

no lady templar in acr and ac3

in ac4 ... the side missions of templar hunts have 2 ladies as targets.

seems like templars do not favor man woman equality .. :D

You're missing one - a Templar Agent from ACB.

HoIcon
10-25-2014, 01:59 AM
^ That's Lia http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Lia_de_Russo
and there were 2 women Templar agents in Revelations too
Lysistrata and Mirela
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Lysistrata
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Mirela_Djuric

Fatal-Feit
10-25-2014, 03:00 AM
Women were commonly considered inferior back then. It wouldn't be historically accurate.

VestigialLlama4
10-25-2014, 04:52 AM
Across history there are more than a few instances of powerful women for sure. Men tried to relegate them to the background but somehow they were present and played a role.

As for why Ubisoft made most Templars male, the same reason that most of them are white and straight(AC1 probably is the exception in that regard). The Templars are about order and power, and the most powerful and dominant people (at least in the last thousand years or so) have been white males. So for the Templars to actually be successful and a threat, they would necessarily have to lean towards that minority.

Ureh
10-25-2014, 05:19 AM
^ That's Lia http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Lia_de_Russo
and there were 2 women Templar agents in Revelations too
Lysistrata and Mirela
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Lysistrata
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Mirela_Djuric

I guess the Courtesan can be considered a temporary Templar agent (she worked with Cesare for a few years). And there

Also the Vanguard in ACR was a templar too, I think.

But none of these are major targets in the main stories.

STDlyMcStudpants
10-25-2014, 07:36 AM
Yes, and historically speaking -- Templars have existed throughout all of history and continue to exist as a mega corporation called Abstergo too, huh?

The Assassins Creed and Abstergo are the only fairytale part...
As sexist as the games may seem....I like to actually feel like im in the time period...
I don't want to run around 1910 new york and see women voting just to stop the feminists/feminists knights from crying

VestigialLlama4
10-25-2014, 07:47 AM
The Assassins Creed and Abstergo are the only fairytale part...
As sexist as the games may seem....I like to actually feel like im in the time period...
I don't want to run around 1910 new york and see women voting just to stop the feminists/feminists knights from crying

During the 1910s women were protesting and arguing for their rights. Movements like that ensured that later successes happened. Being true to history involves telling the fact that women were always prominent and played a vital part in history even if they were relegated to the sides and given thankless tasks, there are numerous stories and events like this. Being feminist involves respecting and understanding that tradition or simply acknowledging that fact.

Like Black Flag is a macho genre story but women play a big part in that story.

STDlyMcStudpants
10-25-2014, 09:05 AM
During the 1910s women were protesting and arguing for their rights. Movements like that ensured that later successes happened. Being true to history involves telling the fact that women were always prominent and played a vital part in history even if they were relegated to the sides and given thankless tasks, there are numerous stories and events like this. Being feminist involves respecting and understanding that tradition or simply acknowledging that fact.

Like Black Flag is a macho genre story but women play a big part in that story.
'always' :rolleyes:

dimbismp
10-25-2014, 09:50 AM
Well,as i said,it is obvious that women played no role back then,with lottle exceptions.BUT,there could be a female templar,that she was important because she could run things in the shadows,had a network of spies etc.And she could be a fictional character for god's sake!!
I hate that almosr all assassins and templars HAVE to be real characters.I mean since AC2 the only fictional assassin/templar characters were Yusuf,Achilles,Mario,Haytham and Ah Tabai!!I unterstand that Ubisoft uses history as the playground,but the fact that every assassination target is a real person,sometimes can really narrow down the possibilities in mission design etc....

STDlyMcStudpants
10-25-2014, 09:52 AM
Weel,as i said,it is obvious that women played no role back then,with lottle exceptions.BUT,there could be a female templar,that she was important because she could run things in the shadows,had a network of spies etc.And she could be a fictional character for god's sake!!
I hate that almosr all assassins and templars HAVE to be real characters.I mean since AC2 the only fictional assassin/templar characters were Yusuf,Achilles,Mario,Haytham and Ah Tabai!!I uneerstand that Ubisoft uses history as the playground,but the fact that every assassination target is a real person,sometimes it can really narrow down the possibilities in mission design etc....

Connor and Ezio are real? :O

STDlyMcStudpants
10-25-2014, 09:56 AM
I'd love an AC spin off where they didn't have modern day tying them down...
Just a game about targets and politics where they could play with history and and characters..where we got a more immersive 'real' story.. an over the shoulder perspective where they arent tied down to 'important' details with the animus..
I wanna start seeing little details...make the games personal :D
Where we arent reliving memories.. we are in a time period making our own ;D

Relmar_Vel
10-25-2014, 10:08 AM
Could Ubisoft add some more females? Sure. Do they really need to? Not really, doesn't affect the quality they offer. I'd rather a well done female character, than a forced female character because people shout sexism.

There is always some sort of rage Ubisoft gets. They're sexist, they support the hunting of whales (The whole rage surrounding Black Flag's whaling), they are stupid because they don't know where penguins live (Instead of people giving them benefit of the doubt, thinking they may have done a little research and if some people did the same they would discover Great Auks).

cawatrooper9
10-25-2014, 03:23 PM
You're missing one - a Templar Agent from ACB.

There's also Elise, obviously.
And Bastienne and Madeline de L'Isle.

naumaan
10-25-2014, 05:19 PM
You're missing one - a Templar Agent from ACB.

the girl who ran on rooftops ... right ?

Locopells
10-25-2014, 06:52 PM
Right (see below).


^ That's Lia http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Lia_de_Russo
and there were 2 women Templar agents in Revelations too
Lysistrata and Mirela
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Lysistrata
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Mirela_Djuric

My bad, I thought he'd mentioned those two.