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StraySeeker
10-24-2014, 08:40 PM
Note that I was completely unsure of where to post this feedback to Ubisoft, so apologies if this is completely the wrong place.

Dear Ubisoft,

I urge you to take heed of the feedback I am giving you today. I am speaking not from my singular perspective, but as one voice of many who feel lied to. There was a point in which there was a promise to do well by PC gamers (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/mcv-gamescom-ubisoft-vows-to-improve-its-pc-games/0136995), not all too long ago. Since then, we have seen Assassin's Creed: Rogue, get a much delayed PC release, and while that in itself was a kick in the teeth, we are now being sold games under extortionate terms. The terms I am speaking about, are of course what you*expect PC gamers to pay for your upcoming*release - Assassin's Creed Unity.

I have made the habit of buying the collector's editions of each Assassin's Creed release, statues and all. However, this is the first year I will not be doing that in a long time. In fact, I refuse to actually buy the game until certain things are acknowledged. The specs in which Assassin's Creed: Unity require are nothing but an insult to PC gamers. I hate to compare hardware, and so I'm just going to take the PS4's and compare it to the recommended*PC specs:

PS4 Specs

CPU: Dual 4*core modules @ 1.6-? GHZ
GPU: Frequency*800 MHz &**GFLOPS @*1840
Memory: 8GB

PS4 Price: $399

Recommended PC Specs

Intel Core i7-3770 @ 3.4 GHz or AMD FX-8350 @ 4.0 GHz or better (More than twice the GHZ than the PS4, albeit with less cores, still substantial CPU's) $300
Memory: 8GB (Low Profile)*~$200
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 or AMD Radeon R9 290X (3 GB VRAM) ~$600-$800
GPU Frequency requirements: 1020MHz
GFLOPS Required:*3977

Recommended PC parts (GPU/CPU/Memory) price: ~$1100 - $1300

Note that the PC price does not include things such as the motherboard, case, sound card, and so forth, which push the price towards the $2,000 mark. Each part noted is retail price, and low ones at that (varies from Europe to US).

So I must ask you Ubisoft, what did the $700+ go into? Considering the kind of system you're asking users to have so that they can actually play their game; Assassin's Creed: Unity must have a massive difference between PC and console when it comes to graphical and physics experience. However given past*problems with porting games to PC,*take a look at*Watch_Dogs (http://n4g.com/news/1529704/hey-ubisoft-wheres-the-watch-dogs-pc-patch)*(1 (http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/13/5805560/watch-dogs-pc-launch-what-really-went-wrong))(2 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9462-Ubisoft-A-Sad-History-of-PC-Failures)) for example, I think this is more of a disregard for PC optimisation than anything.

Ubisoft, you can't shell out these un-optimised games, ask people to pay $60, or*€60 in Europe (which is considerably more), and make claims that you're trying to do right by gamers. Assassin's Creed: Unity now has the highest recommended specs of any game, ever. It does not look the part, nor does it actually comply at all with the power of consoles. The minimum specs still have many specs far higher than any console ever created. There was a time when Ubisoft were revolutionary, and creative. You have now become exactly the opposite of what you claim to be, games should be playable and should never require thousands worth of hardware simply to play on the lowest settings.*

In an article discussing optimisation regarding Assassin's Creed Unity (http://www.dsogaming.com/news/ubisoft-wants-to-earn-pc-gamers-trust-back-will-further-optimize-its-titles/), there were desires to improve optimisation for your games.




“We recognise the importance and needs of PC gamers, and want to continue to improve how we create and support games for PC,” told MCV Ubisoft’s European boss Alain Corre and continued:


“We listen to feedback from players and continue to adapt accordingly; for instance, we switched to a simple, one- time activation for our PC games – a standard practice in the industry. We’re also doing our best to bring our games to PC at the same time as the console versions. Assassin’s Creed Unity and Far Cry 4, for example, will be released simultaneously on console and PC, and this will continue to be the goal for all our major titles.”


Alain concluded that Ubisoft is committed to ‘improving the optimisation of our games for each platform on which they’re released – including PC.’



It's interesting how "- including PC" was added as an afterthought, because Ubisoft, you're not going to do right by PC gamers so long as you treat us as such. Why do you think you can charge PC gamers who have rigs twice as powerful then any console, the same price for terrible frame rates? Of course, you have no obligation to optimse your games, but do not claim to be doing better by PC gamers, open up pre-orders, and then require extreme specifications to actually play your games. It's a case of false advertising at this point, and there are many gamers out there now who have thrown their cash at something they won't even be able to play.


Sincerely,


A former Ubisoft fan.

andreycvetov
10-25-2014, 11:00 AM
Yeah ,wtf .I have to cancel my pre-order now

e5115271
10-25-2014, 12:57 PM
Well written OP, I wholeheartedly agree. I will keep an open mind until bencharks/reviews come out, but I'm hoping that it will run smoothly at lower specs. Hopefully it's just an over-estimation rather than poor optimisation. To my eyes, Black Flag running on max settings looked like the best open world game I'd played so I'd expect slightly higher specs for Unity. Fingers crossed, but definetely not a day 1 purchase now.

strigoi1958
10-25-2014, 02:25 PM
I love PC's and I really enjoy Assassins creed games and even though I refuse to play MMO's I still want more and more PC gamers to play the AC series even if it means making PC friends to get things like social events, kenways fleet and god forbid... having to co-op to get all achievements. I think there is a huge number of loyal AC fans in the PC gaming community who constantly tell their friends how good the series is, and they need to buy it.
Word of mouth is the best advertising there is and these Specs kept secret until the last possible moment have damaged the relationship with an extremely loyal PC community who will be doing less promoting of AC in the future.

I know if these specs were released earlier the pre-orders would have virtually dried up and cancellations would have flooded in but by releasing them very late when people are so close they can almost taste it, it is designed to spark a panic buy of new components.

I don't know what kind of financial incentive/ commision Ubi gets from MS/ Intel/ Nvidia (and before anyone says none..... "They also said that artificial sweeteners were safe, and WMDs were in Iraq, and Anna Nicole married for love!" (quote from the film shooter :D) but it is not worth the damage to your own customers and your own reputation.

The outrage will die down after benchmarks and unofficial patches/ mods and nvidia driver gains (which should be out on day 1 not a month later) make the minimum spec look silly and 50% of the people who were not supposed to be able to run it... will run it.

But it will have a consequence.

http://i60.tinypic.com/wmjtqo.jpg

hlchade
10-25-2014, 10:10 PM
Okay, I don't want to be misconstrued as some sort of apologist here, I'm not saying that Ubisoft, as a company, is the best company ever. That they haven't or won't continue to do things that one might consider dumb or silly or illogical. I'm not saying that they don't ever need to change, and that they can't benefit from the feedback provided by all of the people who enjoy or consume their products.

I'd also like to say that I absolutely support any outcry against the minimum recommended specs for a game being restrictively high as it inherently shows a reduction in scalability. One of the great perks of PC gaming is that you can change the settings to cater to your values. If you love eye-candy you can crank the settings to max and sacrifice framerate; likewise, you can put everything on low and get ridiculously high FPS, or play on older hardware. Scalability is fantastic! :)

I do, however, see some portions of your feedback that I'd like to discuss or clarify with you, as I'm just not seeing it as a viable argument against this game.



... we are now being sold games under extortionate terms. The terms I am speaking about, are of course what you*expect PC gamers to pay for your upcoming*release - Assassin's Creed Unity.

Nothing about the situation is "extortionate". Ubisoft made a game, they put that game up for sale, and it is up to you--the potential buyer--to either buy it, or not buy it. That isn't extortion, that's commerce.

Now, I'm not entirely sure why you "hate to compare hardware" and then continue some of your argument based on hardware performance/price comparisons. If you're doing it to show an argument for scalability then I don't know why you're comparing PS4 specs to recommended specs and not the minimum specs but, I would be with you, and you can skip the next paragraph.

It's fairly well known that, in general, a console can get more performance out of it's hardware than the PC equivalent because of it being a closed platform. That being said, we don't even know how it is going to run on any platform at this point beyond resolution and FPS (and then we don't know if it is locked or if it can drop at times and ultimately be variable) since the game isn't out -- this feeds into what other people are saying, wait for benchmarks. As far as we know it could have terrible (and, obviously different people have different opinions on what it considered "terrible") performance on both of the new consoles. AC3 was made and optimized to run on PS3/X360 and, in my opinion after having played some of it on PS3, the performance was abysmal.

On to the list of recommended PC parts ...


An AMD FX-8350 goes for $180, I'll average them out to $250 because if you want to pick up the listed (by Ubisoft) Intel equivalent it'll be $320. So, price is really up to the buyers wants or needs.

For memory, I looked up the current price of what I bought for my PC a couple years ago (it also just so happens to be low profile). It's $80 for 8GB. Nowhere near the $200 you list, I actually picked up 16GB then and still didn't hit your estimate.

The GTX780 3GB goes for anywhere between $350 to $450 depending on the model. Again, nowhere near $600-$800.

So that brings your recommended PC parts list down from $1100-$1300 to $680. It also changes your "... what did the $700+ go into" into "... what did the $280+ go into". Which is still a decent amount of money, but it isn't nearly as exorbitant as what you suggest, although-- as you say, pricing can and does vary by location.

Next: I'm not entirely sure why you compare the price of all potential PC components (for $2,000) here as motherboard, case, sound card, and so forth are usually reusable (with the possible exception of the the motherboard due to differences in socket type).

The rest of your post voices dissatisfaction based on assumption and equating a high recommendations list with a lack of optimisation:


"Ubisoft, you can't shell out these un-optimised games, ..." "Why do you think you can charge PC gamers who have rigs twice as powerful then any console, the same price for terrible frame rates?"

To the first thing, again, the game isn't out yet, we don't know how it performs or how it is (or isn't :p ) optimized. Similarly--


"It does not look the part, nor does it actually comply at all with the power of consoles."

We don't know what the final release will look like--on either low or high settings, so at this point it doesn't really need to "comply with the power of the consoles," as it's presumptive. I did think that it was funny that having the highest recommended PC specs ever isn't, by definition, "revolutionary" but that's a word choice thing. :) But I also interpret your interview quote differently, I read it as reiterative not as an afterthought.

I agree that we absolutely do have previously released titles that were ported by Ubisoft Kiev as a bar that has been set, and it's certainly a valid reason to be nervous about how Unity will turn out, having said that though, if you're nervous wait for benchmarks. Don't pre-order. Just because there's a pre-order button or pre-order incentives doesn't mean you have to click it. Wait.


"It's a case of false advertising at this point, ..."

Speaking of bars that have been set, the last couple of years Ubisoft posts the system specs a few weeks out from release, and every year we all (we, including me!) wish they would post them earlier, but they don't. (I also wish that demos or out-of-game performance benchmarks were more of a thing.) That is something to criticise them over, but what the people who choose to pre-purchase without having all of the information do with their money, isn't. That isn't false advertising.

I want to reiterate that I have the utmost sympathy for those who have changed their minds and can't, for whatever reason, get their money back. I get super sad when I read stories like that in these instances.

I hope a couple of things: 1) that the digital stores more uniformly offer refunds on pre-orders, and 2) that, as other people in this thread and in the overall Unity specs thread have said, the specs have been over exaggerated (as a few titles this year have) and the people who want to play it but don't quite hit the recommendations threshold are still able to run it with an acceptable experience.

... And that turned out longer than I thought it might, I'm sorry for writing you a book. :(

oliacr
10-25-2014, 10:21 PM
Well written.

It is extremely unfair that a PC gamer have to pay twice the money of a console for a graphics card.



Speaking of bars that have been set, the last couple of years Ubisoft posts the system specs a few weeks out from release, and every year we all (we, including me!) wish they would post them earlier, but they don't.
Have they published it by themselves? No. They had to publish the requirements because of the leaked screenshots just like the whole announcement of the game. So they wanted to wait, but they couldn't.

hlchade
10-25-2014, 11:28 PM
Have they published it by themselves? No. They had to publish the requirements because of the leaked screenshots just like the whole announcement of the game. So they wanted to wait, but they couldn't.

Nobody but Ubisoft knows the original release date for the specs. You can speculate that they were forced to do so because of the leak, but equally, you can speculate that they were on the 'leak'-ing website because they were being readied to be published. Either situation is plausible. And it still doesn't excuse the part of the backlash that is based on pre-order culture.

Th3 Code
10-26-2014, 02:18 AM
I found that the system requirements were outrageous but I meat all of those requirements. Many people say that those requirements are aimed for 4k resolution, and I'm betting that the system requirements are aimed at 1080p. But that's because I refuse to get my hopes up, and good things don't happen in the gaming industry. Rule one for any true gamer is: Don't get too hyped and don't assume anything is the best until it's out.

But the thing that Ubisoft did for this game which is the most unforgiving is the regional exclusives ; specifically the Unite Program and the Spin-To-Win program. If you live in any of the several countries in Europe you essentially get much more exclusive content in your game regardless the version you get than if you purchase the game in the US or any other country around the world that isn't classified as Europe. I believe that their methods of exclusives is nothing but a loyalty destroyer, and as well as Uplay not doing pre-loads for games that are 50GB, that is a slap to the face and that alone caused many preorder cancels. I'll be doing it once I figure out if Steam will officially be having a pre-load of the game, and if they don't then I might just get an Amazon retail.

As for company problems. My greatest problem with Ubisoft is their lack of SAYING ANYTHING. People have tons of questions yet they refuse to answer ANYTHING. They with hold vital information on every single game, and if you plead with UBI Support they tell you absolutely nothing about anything. I think their Customer Service is also a joke. They need to just have live chats like EA. Ubisoft claims they have "live chat" but it's only for 10 minutes a day on a business day if that because for months I've had to contact them several times on many dozens of things and I've never had a "click to chat now" option. And most recently my questions have been about ACU, asking about the preorder and asking about the Gold Edition and what's in it since nobody in the entire company has any clue what in the hell is in the Season Pass OR the Gold Edition - it's like they're all just saying stuff to say stuff.

kidmosey
10-26-2014, 03:06 AM
And if the specs were the same, would you complain that this is just another console port and cry that they aren't keeping their promise to PC customers?

Companies code for console first because consoles are more restrictive. The fact that PC specs for Unity are so high gives me reassurance that they put some actual work into the PC version. Generally speaking, direct console ports are not going to require that much more performance - at least not from what I've seen.

Th3 Code
10-26-2014, 03:39 AM
Well technically that is the developers job. They are the ones responsible for showing us a true comparison. As much as we know what we've seen is PS4, or could be all PC showings. We can't speculate too much on the differences because they won't show nor tell us the differences. And from what I can tell of Ubisoft, they are trying to balance to field between console and PC, for example AC:BF and W_D.

strigoi1958
10-26-2014, 04:14 AM
Unity is going to be a very small seller initially. without the xbox 360 and PS3. ( maybe someone can get the right figures) I think ACBF sold over 6,600,000 on 360 and PS3... PC about 0.5 mill, Xbone 0.8 mill and PS4 1.8 mill... the rest on the wii I think.
losing that 6.6 million at a rough average of $70 a time is a big drop in income.
Even if we say sales of Unity on the next gen will be similar to ACBF and PS4 owners don't get annoyed at having their system gimped to match the xbone... it is 2.75 million sales. With the PC specs at present the 0.5 million would drop to 0.05 million probably more with people keeping their pre-orders.
That's a 25% of sales compared to ACBF.

AC 3 (and farcry 3) sold 0.8 million on PC so who knows.... maybe the pc market could have been cultivated and pushed figures over the million mark

Th3 Code
10-26-2014, 04:31 AM
I wouldn't worry too much for Ubi, I'm sure they got a multi-million dollar deal from both MS and Sony for making the game exclusive to only new gen consoles. Both companies, MS and Sony all want more people to ditch old tech and get the new tech so they make more money - so they're going to do that through Ubisoft (and eventually other developers) so that they only release games for next gen. But then on top of that, Ubi is releasing AC Rogue which is 360 and PS3, so they'll make another estimated 5M copies sold (Not quiet 6M because it's extremely similar to ACBF), but since it has a much different and unique twist to the plot - the estimated numbers may be much much different seeing as it's the first AC game you play as an actual Templar in.

I'm pretty sure this is going to be Ubisofts biggest cash cow in the past 10 years.

EverAmbiguous
10-26-2014, 05:44 AM
On to the list of recommended PC parts ...


An AMD FX-8350 goes for $180, I'll average them out to $250 because if you want to pick up the listed (by Ubisoft) Intel equivalent it'll be $320. So, price is really up to the buyers wants or needs.
For memory, I looked up the current price of what I bought for my PC a couple years ago (it also just so happens to be low profile). It's $80 for 8GB. Nowhere near the $200 you list, I actually picked up 16GB then and still didn't hit your estimate.
The GTX780 3GB goes for anywhere between $350 to $450 depending on the model. Again, nowhere near $600-$800.



You make some good points, but a $300 dollar card for minimum, MINIMUM, requirements, ONLY smacks of terrible scalibility and thus optimization.


Unity is going to be a very small seller initially. without the xbox 360 and PS3. ( maybe someone can get the right figures) I think ACBF sold over 6,600,000 on 360 and PS3... PC about 0.5 mill, Xbone 0.8 mill and PS4 1.8 mill... the rest on the wii I think.
losing that 6.6 million at a rough average of $70 a time is a big drop in income.
Even if we say sales of Unity on the next gen will be similar to ACBF and PS4 owners don't get annoyed at having their system gimped to match the xbone... it is 2.75 million sales. With the PC specs at present the 0.5 million would drop to 0.05 million probably more with people keeping their pre-orders.
That's a 25% of sales compared to ACBF.

AC 3 (and farcry 3) sold 0.8 million on PC so who knows.... maybe the pc market could have been cultivated and pushed figures over the million mark

The X1 and PS4 markets have grown a whole lot in the last year, haven't they? So they'll get more sales there.

strigoi1958
10-26-2014, 02:11 PM
True.

It was 3.30 am when I wrote that so I should expand it now.

0.5 million sales on the PC probably generated $35 million which seems a lot but is probably nothing to Ubi and specs that initially bypass $30 millions worth of sales might be offset from incentives from console and component makers to some degree. But other Ubi titles have sold more and if they wanted to they could have cultivated the PC market by making the game MORE accessible to a wider (average) PC user. Doubling the PC customers might not be great initially but long term it is good financially. Purely for brand loyalty... whenever I look for games I look at Ubi titles first and I'm sure many others do. (I think I had a Ubi flying game on my amiga many years ago)

AC games are incredible but if 5000 npc means limiting it to 10% of PC owners then why not 3000 npc or 1000 npc ? When I'm playing a game I'm not really bothered about the npc's. Games can be brilliant to play without having to be extremely GPU heavy.

Maybe this is a showpiece to say "look what we can do" but if that's the case then they would have known system requirements would be high from early on and should have added a caution to the pre-order that requirements might be higher than your current system.

There was a time people would upgrade their PC constantly and the market for components was thriving. But economic changes and other things have slowed that down. Encouraging PC gamers to either convert to consoles or spend constantly again by raising specs in a very high jump (or by over estimating them) might sell a few more components but it is not nice to your customers.