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View Full Version : Theory on the Animus and Rogue (Spoilers, Maybe)



Will_Lucky
10-18-2014, 02:49 AM
So, one of the things people keep saying about Rogue is what if Shay dies at the end only to be met with well he must have a descendent? An interesting idea given he is never mentioned in Forsaken or throughout Assassins Creed 3 despite him presumably wiping the Assassins out totally leaving Achilles alive and is killed by the Templars and his history wiped if you were.

So, here is the twist. What if he does die without carrying on his line? By Assassins Creed 4 the Animus Project has advanced to the point that Desmond Miles memories can be relieved without his mind intact. So. The theory is this, what if Shay dies at the end of Rogue and his body or blood or at least enough of a DNA fragment is carried on until 2014 and comes into the ownership of Abstergo.

With the modern animus of this year, it could hypothetically relive the memories of Shay based simply on a sample of his blood retrieved from the 1660s. Lets say he dies in the Frozen wastes of Northern Canada and his body is essentially preserved, intact DNA might be able to be extracted.

If this holds true it also means there is a way around the idea that a descendant is needed to relieve memories, it also potentially gives access to that persons ancestors and therefore the people whose memories are thought impossible to access through lack of descendants in the modern era in itself. And there we go, we have a way around that through this opening up more peoples memories to relieve.

LoyalACFan
10-18-2014, 02:57 AM
Or Shay wipes out the Assassins, becomes depressed, and dies of liver failure following a night of drunken promiscuity

Or it could be like the scene in AC2 where we see a glimpse of Altair exiting like a badass after conceiving Sef, only this time we would see Shay stumble off and trip over the Morrigan's handrail and die of hypothermia

ze_topazio
10-18-2014, 02:59 AM
I still think Shay will die in a prologue, killed most likely by Connor.

LoyalACFan
10-18-2014, 03:00 AM
I still think Shay will die in a prologue, killed most likely by Connor.

Epilogue?

But yes, it's almost certain that Connor will kill Shay, if not in Rogue, then in Initiates.

JustPlainQuirky
10-18-2014, 03:00 AM
I could see Shay killed by Connor or dying on a bench whilst telling Connor the story of Rogue. :rolleyes:

LoyalACFan
10-18-2014, 03:03 AM
I could see Shay killed by Connor or dying on a bench whilst telling Connor the story of Rogue. :rolleyes:

Blasphemy, only Assassins are allowed to die on benches

Will_Lucky
10-18-2014, 03:08 AM
Blasphemy, only Assassins are allowed to die on benches

Well then, Shay ends his story by ending Connors life.

ze_topazio
10-18-2014, 03:09 AM
Epilogue?

But yes, it's almost certain that Connor will kill Shay, if not in Rogue, then in Initiates.

Yeah that's what I wanted to say, lol

RinoTheBouncer
10-18-2014, 03:13 AM
Well Abstergo knew about the Observatory in ACIV and the Vials, so maybe one of these Vials is Shay’s blood. Maybe at some point, he got his hands on a Vial and stored his blood there, or maybe he just had child that he never knew about. Maybe the game will show him be with a woman and later discover that he had a child that he didn’t know about.

By the way, I love the idea of him being killed by Connor. I mean why not? the people are demanding some scene with Connor, so it would be a smart idea to somehow link those two, together.

LoyalACFan
10-18-2014, 03:24 AM
Well then, Shay ends his story by ending Connors life.

He must be one badass 80-year-old

JustPlainQuirky
10-18-2014, 03:27 AM
Maybe we will see Shay die in an Embers-esque short movie

MakimotoJin
10-18-2014, 03:28 AM
He must be one badass 80-year-old

He already looks a badass,there no wonder he would be a old badass with a templar walking stick.

RinoTheBouncer
10-18-2014, 03:30 AM
Maybe we will see Shay die in an Embers-esque short movie

I hope so, but I doubt that Shay will be that relevant among the fan base and the public and important to Ubisoft / UbiWorkshop that they’ll make a movie for him and not Connor, whom every fan wants to see a conclusion for, or even Haytham or Edward or Shao Jun.

MakimotoJin
10-18-2014, 03:36 AM
I hope so, but I doubt that Shay will be that relevant among the fan base and the public and important to Ubisoft / UbiWorkshop that they’ll make a movie for him and not Connor, whom every fan wants to see a conclusion for, or even Haytham or Edward or Shao Jun.

Yeah....too bad they had to split the attention with 2 ACs in one year.Also,haven't we gone way off topic?

JustPlainQuirky
10-18-2014, 03:37 AM
I hope so, but I doubt that Shay will be that relevant among the fan base and the public and important to Ubisoft / UbiWorkshop that they’ll make a movie for him and not Connor, whom every fan wants to see a conclusion for, or even Haytham or Edward or Shao Jun.

uuuuuuhhhhhh

you underestimate the power of shipping

Shaytham will keep Shay's popularity alive. at least in tumblr.

then his toys will sell. like Haytham's.

then he shall be acknowledged like Haytham :cool:

Shay gets a movie. Connor gets a game. That's how I'd do it

But i still want Connor/Aveline/Eseosa/Shay'sDaughter game :rolleyes:

Namikaze_17
10-18-2014, 03:41 AM
Hmm...your theory could reign true.

If you look at the Trailer, Shay was chasing/fighting his supposed friend.

Perhaps he's the final target along with Shay dying in the ice during the battle.

( Think like Cap. America) Then Abstergo finds his remains to view his memories years later.

It's either that, or he lives long enough to talk with/ be killed by Connor.

MakimotoJin
10-18-2014, 03:50 AM
Hmm...your theory could reign true.

If you look at the Trailer, Shay was chasing/fighting his supposed friend.

Perhaps he's the final target along with Shay dying in the ice during the battle.

( Think like Cap. America) Then Abstergo finds his remains to view his memories years later.

It's either that, or he lives long enough to talk with/ be killed by Connor.

Well in the Assassin Hunter trailer he kills a assassin that looks a lot like Liam,so...

Namikaze_17
10-18-2014, 04:35 AM
Well in the Assassin Hunter trailer he kills a assassin that looks a lot like Liam,so...

I don't know...They seemed like best of buds in the beginning of the story trailer.

Perhaps it's some random assassin he kills to represent his allegiance and stuff.

So it would make the most sense to have the Brother Vs. Brother fight be like the turning or ending point of the story.

Hans684
10-18-2014, 11:06 AM
He must be one badass 80-year-old

Altaïr was a badass 90-year-old

RinoTheBouncer
10-18-2014, 11:16 AM
Yeah....too bad they had to split the attention with 2 ACs in one year.Also,haven't we gone way off topic?

Yeah and not to mention the lack of promotion for Rogue compared to AC:U.


uuuuuuhhhhhh

you underestimate the power of shipping

Shaytham will keep Shay's popularity alive. at least in tumblr.

then his toys will sell. like Haytham's.

then he shall be acknowledged like Haytham :cool:

Shay gets a movie. Connor gets a game. That's how I'd do it

But i still want Connor/Aveline/Eseosa/Shay'sDaughter game :rolleyes:

Are there toys for Shay? I’m not such a good collector when it comes to action figures, but I do own those who come with the big collector editions that I buy. for each game. It’s interesting to see what will become of Shay and if it’ll be explained in the games or AC:Initiates.

I do want a game like that. I’ve always hoped that the game after ACIV will be an Edward/Haytham/Connor game and perhaps with Aveline, or Connor/Aveline/Eseosa. That would’ve been much more interesting, even though I’m still very excited about Rogue.

It’s really sad to see them continuously introducing new characters and new mysteries without actually giving a conclusion or a solution to past characters and mysteries and everything seems to be left as a loose end till an indefinite period.

VestigialLlama4
10-18-2014, 11:40 AM
Ideally Connor should die after 1812 fighting alongside or against Tecumseh or in New Orleans, sailing alongside the new mentor Jean lafitte.

Or if he lives longer, he can maybe train the next mentor of the Assassins Frederick Douglass or if not him, then John Brown (who is most certainly an Assassin).

SlyTrooper
10-18-2014, 03:55 PM
I was thinking that Shay will turn up on Connor's doorstep at the end of Rogue & they will start talking about their beliefs on a bench. Shay will then stab Connor with his hidden blade & Connor stabs him back just before he dies. Then they both bleed out on the floor. This would prevent anymore requests for a Connor game or a Shay game.

EmbodyingSeven5
10-18-2014, 05:35 PM
Blasphemy, only Assassins are allowed to die on benches

IKR. so Shay will die riding his Pegasus In his old age.

http://sunnylol.com/images/2012/September/18/50581e2bd65f9.jpg

EmbodyingSeven5
10-18-2014, 05:37 PM
I was thinking that Shay will turn up on Connor's doorstep at the end of Rogue & they will start talking about their beliefs on a bench. Shay will then stab Connor with his hidden blade & Connor stabs him back just before he dies. Then they both bleed out on the floor. This would prevent anymore requests for a Connor game or a Shay game.

since they are reusing the colonial American setting. why didn't they make rogue a Connor sequel????!!!!

Megas_Doux
10-18-2014, 05:48 PM
since they are reusing the colonial American setting. why didn't they make rogue a Connor sequel????!!!!

Because even though is clear that Connor has his good amount of loyal fans. He is, at the same time, the most hated protagonist so far and Ubi might be afraid of the backlash . Heck, even to the point I feel Ubi is embarrased of him.

Connor´s ideal time to have his "ingame" conclusion is through a DLC in Rogue, If that does not happen, well...........A hint in initiates or something.

Thing is, I grew weary of North America during the XVIII century and in fact of the XVII century in general!!!!!!!! I want other settings and eras.

Namikaze_17
10-18-2014, 06:21 PM
Look up the word 'Underrated' and you'll see Connor's face next to it.

I mean, really...

PedroAntonio2
10-18-2014, 06:37 PM
I believe Connor died from old age, he lived in Homestead for the rest of his life, training new recruits, with Homestead becoming the perfect example of how the world should be, with freedom and joy. Connor died just like Achilles did, knowing that he made a difference and gave hope to his people. This would be the perfect ending for the character, way better than saying he was murdered by a Templar, they already screwed up with Edward being a badass in ACIV and after that being murdered by two dudes in Forsaken

now about Shay....I think he is going to be the main antagonist for AC Unity.

Fatal-Feit
10-18-2014, 06:55 PM
I believe Connor died from old age, he lived in Homestead for the rest of his life, training new recruits, with Homestead becoming the perfect example of how the world should be, with freedom and joy. Connor died just like Achilles did, knowing that he made a difference and gave hope to his people. This would be the perfect ending for the character, way better than saying he was murdered by a Templar, they already screwed up with Edward being a badass in ACIV and after that being murdered by two dudes in Forsaken

Ditto. With that in mind, a Connor sequel isn't my #1 want. A novel, short film, or DLC that depicts an interesting part of his later life would suffice for me. I just want some proper closure after the events of AC:3. A DLC showcasing him training Assassins about 10-20 years or a short film about Connor bonding with Eseosa. Perhaps we'll see his potential wife or whatever. It doesn't have to be tragic and he doesn't have to die. :p

Namikaze_17
10-18-2014, 08:17 PM
Doesn't Canon state the Homestead "disappeared" in 19th Century?


EDIT:


a Connor sequel isn't my #1 want. A novel, short film, or DLC that depicts an interesting part of his later life would suffice for me. I just want some proper closure after the events of AC:3.

This.


Perhaps we'll see his potential wife or whatever.

I wanna know this one so bad.

VestigialLlama4
10-18-2014, 08:22 PM
Because even though is clear that Connor has his good amount of loyal fans. He is, at the same time, the most hated protagonist so far and Ubi might be afraid of the backlash . Heck, even to the point I feel Ubi is embarrased of him.

Connor´s ideal time to have his "ingame" conclusion is through a DLC in Rogue, If that does not happen, well...........A hint in initiates or something.

Thing is, I grew weary of North America during the XVIII century and in fact of the XVII century in general!!!!!!!! I want other settings and eras.

Connor is the STAR of the most successful Assassin's Creed game in the Franchise, more than the Ezio games and more than Black Flag. It's just a tiny minority of (mostly white) gamers that hamper on him. It's the same effect with San Andreas where people still complain about CJ on highly weird and dubious lines. Connor is a great character.

In either case, Connor is a one-game protagonist simply because unlike Altair in the Crusades or Ezio in the Renaissance, the cultural context doesn't allow for an extended genre story. It's the problem with revolutionary stories. Once the revolution is won and/or lost, the story exhausts its possibilities. So Connor really doesn't have any big story to build a game around him after the Revolution. I don't think Ubisoft ever intended to make more than one game out of him. What I think upsets people is Ubisoft's lack of loyalty and respect to its own character, where they're trying to be coy and refusing to give closure to his story like the way they did for Altair(who by the way was not all that popular, then or now, yet he still got a grand send-off). Or that even Haytham Kenway, Achilles and Adewale are getting closure despite them being supporting characters.

Megas_Doux
10-18-2014, 09:12 PM
Connor is the STAR of the most successful Assassin's Creed game in the Franchise, more than the Ezio games and more than Black Flag. It's just a tiny minority of (mostly white) gamers that hamper on him. It's the same effect with San Andreas where people still complain about CJ on highly weird and dubious lines. Connor is a great character.

In either case, Connor is a one-game protagonist simply because unlike Altair in the Crusades or Ezio in the Renaissance, the cultural context doesn't allow for an extended genre story. It's the problem with revolutionary stories. Once the revolution is won and/or lost, the story exhausts its possibilities. So Connor really doesn't have any big story to build a game around him after the Revolution. I don't think Ubisoft ever intended to make more than one game out of him. What I think upsets people is Ubisoft's lack of loyalty and respect to its own character, where they're trying to be coy and refusing to give closure to his story like the way they did for Altair(who by the way was not all that popular, then or now, yet he still got a grand send-off). Or that even Haytham Kenway, Achilles and Adewale are getting closure despite them being supporting characters.


AC III sold tons of copies, but take into consideration that the overwhelming marketing is to "blame". AC III has been the most hyped game ever for Ubisoft, TV ads during primetime events like NFL/college games, Baseball games and even "soccer" games in Europe. When I deactivated the ad blocker in youtube, AC III ads appeared as well, there were dozens of articles, trailers and such all over the internet, the game was EVERYWHERE.

The reception????? Well, it is the lowest fan rated AC game in Metacritic and Amazon. Many of those who did not like the game pointed Connor as one of the main reasons,, some having valid points, and others being plain stupid ......

I did not say Connor has no fans, I said that Connor is the most polarizing protagonist so far. Sure he has many, many, fans, but his haters are EASILY spotted in sites like Youtube, facebook, IGN and Metacritic. See, Ubi is already getting a lot hate recently, the CO-OP up women stuff, the downgrade of Watch dogs graphics and now the 1080p to 900p stuff in Unity and the fiasco caused by their explanations.

As I said,I believe Ubi is afraid of what would happen if they cast Connor as the main protagonist again. What bothers me, though, is that they are not "closing the deal". For there is nothing worse than uncertainty.

SpiritOfNevaeh
10-18-2014, 09:19 PM
AC III sold tons of copies, but take into consideration that the overwhelming marketing is to "blame". AC III has been the most hyped game ever for Ubisoft, TV ads during primetime events like NFL/college games, Baseball games and even "soccer" games in Europe. When I deactivated the ad blocker in youtube, AC III ads appeared as well, there were dozens of articles, trailers and such all over the internet, the game was EVERYWHERE.

The reception????? Well, it is the lowest fan rated AC game in Metacritic and Amazon. Many of those who did not like the game pointed Connor as one of the main reasons,, some having valid points, and others being plain stupid ......

I did not say Connor has no fans, I said that Connor is the most polarizing protagonist so far. Sure he has many, many, fans, but his haters are EASILY spotted in sites like Youtube, facebook, IGN and Metacritic. See, Ubi is already getting a lot hate recently, the CO-OP up women stuff, the downgrade of Watch dogs graphics and now the 1080p to 900p stuff in Unity and the fiasco caused by their explanations.

As I said,I believe Ubi is afraid of what would happen if they cast Connor as the main protagonist again. What bothers me, though, is that they are not "closing the deal". For there is nothing worse than uncertainty.

All valid points nonetheless.

VestigialLlama4
10-19-2014, 04:50 AM
AC III sold tons of copies, but take into consideration that the overwhelming marketing is to "blame". AC III has been the most hyped game ever for Ubisoft, TV ads during primetime events like NFL/college games, Baseball games and even "soccer" games in Europe. When I deactivated the ad blocker in youtube, AC III ads appeared as well, there were dozens of articles, trailers and such all over the internet, the game was EVERYWHERE.

The reception????? Well, it is the lowest fan rated AC game in Metacritic and Amazon. Many of those who did not like the game pointed Connor as one of the main reasons,, some having valid points, and others being plain stupid ......

I did not say Connor has no fans, I said that Connor is the most polarizing protagonist so far. Sure he has many, many, fans, but his haters are EASILY spotted in sites like Youtube, facebook, IGN and Metacritic. See, Ubi is already getting a lot hate recently, the CO-OP up women stuff, the downgrade of Watch dogs graphics and now the 1080p to 900p stuff in Unity and the fiasco caused by their explanations.

As I said,I believe Ubi is afraid of what would happen if they cast Connor as the main protagonist again. What bothers me, though, is that they are not "closing the deal". For there is nothing worse than uncertainty.

They are easily spotted because they are fewer and have more time on their hands. Marketing can explain early successes but it doesn't explain how the game still sold well after that. And fan ratings are not really ratings - I mean Ezio fans can't be objective of the game and the low ratings came afterwards.

The game IS flawed: its glitchy, its burdened by systems, the maps are not unified and the mission objectives are pointless. Over time people got it into their heads that this is because Connor is the protagonist and that if it had been Haytham who was the hero - somehow those flaws would be swept under the rug. And the story's use of historical characters was fairly one dimensional and impersonal. When what would have happened would be that if Haytham was the hero with no Connor, people would blame Ubisoft for giving us Templar!Ezio rather than showing creativity in making a new character altogether. It's only because of Connor that people think that Haytham is interesting, cool, witty and more fun to be around.

Namikaze_17
10-19-2014, 05:23 AM
Over time people got it into their heads that this is because Connor is the protagonist and that if it had been Haytham who was the hero - somehow those flaws would be swept under the rug.

^ The Truth has been Spoken!!!

Can't tell you how many times I've seen such ignorant comments that relate to what you said. :mad:





When what would have happened would be that if Haytham was the hero with no Connor, people would blame Ubisoft for giving us Templar!Ezio rather than showing creativity in making a new character altogether.

Humans are cruel creatures...we aren't happy with ANYTHING.


It's only because of Connor that people think that Haytham is interesting, cool, witty and more fun to be around.

Hmm...fair point.

In my first playthrough of AC3, I remember liking/relating to Haytham more than Connor.

Though I would've liked Haytham with or without his connection to Connor.

VestigialLlama4
10-19-2014, 06:07 AM
^ The Truth has been Spoken!!!

Can't tell you how many times I've seen such ignorant comments that relate to what you said. :mad:






Humans are cruel creatures...we aren't happy with ANYTHING.



Hmm...fair point.

In my first playthrough of AC3, I remember liking/relating to Haytham more than Connor.

Though I would've liked Haytham with or without his connection to Connor.

I like Haytham too, but I like him for what he is, which is simply an awesome interesting plot twist and showing us the Templar point of view and making the conflict personal. Haytham is the first real Templar in the franchise who has more than one dimensions and I liked him for that. He's not this super complex character at all or not more complex than Connor(who I have to say, is short-changed by the writing) In terms of complexity he's less interesting than Achilles, Adewale, James Kidd or Edward, who were the best characters of that era. He's the best Templar but compared to the Borgia, Sable-Al Mualim, that is not saying much.

Namikaze_17
10-19-2014, 07:50 AM
I like Haytham too, but I like him for what he is, which is simply an awesome interesting plot twist and showing us the Templar point of view and making the conflict personal.

I 100% Agree. Haytham, along with the other Kenways, really make you see how tragic the AVT War can be.



Haytham is the first real Templar in the franchise who has more than one dimensions and I liked him for that.

Agreed...A major step up from the mustache-twirling villains in previous installments.


He's not this super complex character at all or not more complex than Connor (who I have to say, is short-changed by the writing)

You're right...he isn't. And to tell the truth, Ezio isn't really that complex either....way less than Haytham. But I guess when you're granted three games plus a personality that's targeted for a certain demographic, all the need for complexity is soon forgotten. :rolleyes:


In terms of complexity he's less interesting than Achilles, Adewale, James Kidd or Edward, who were the best characters of that era. He's the best Templar but compared to the Borgia, Sable-Al Mualim, that is not saying much.

Well while your first statement can be up for debate, I agree that he certainly is the best Templar compared to others we've had before.

ze_topazio
10-19-2014, 12:07 PM
Connor is the STAR of the most successful Assassin's Creed game in the Franchise, more than the Ezio games and more than Black Flag. It's just a tiny minority of (mostly white) gamers that hamper on him. It's the same effect with San Andreas where people still complain about CJ on highly weird and dubious lines. Connor is a great character.

In either case, Connor is a one-game protagonist simply because unlike Altair in the Crusades or Ezio in the Renaissance, the cultural context doesn't allow for an extended genre story. It's the problem with revolutionary stories. Once the revolution is won and/or lost, the story exhausts its possibilities. So Connor really doesn't have any big story to build a game around him after the Revolution. I don't think Ubisoft ever intended to make more than one game out of him. What I think upsets people is Ubisoft's lack of loyalty and respect to its own character, where they're trying to be coy and refusing to give closure to his story like the way they did for Altair(who by the way was not all that popular, then or now, yet he still got a grand send-off). Or that even Haytham Kenway, Achilles and Adewale are getting closure despite them being supporting characters.

The evil white man strikes again.



And I dare say that the majority of Connor fans are white too.

VestigialLlama4
10-19-2014, 08:06 PM
The evil white man strikes again.



And I dare say that the majority of Connor fans are white too.

Well, I certainly am not white. It is a fact that most game player characters, across the industry, are white and male. And the rare times a major franchise puts out a minority player character like Carl Johnson in San Andreas or Connor (and to some extent Altair) in Assassin's Creed, there tends to be more criticism often to disproportionate levels. Like a lot of people are quite vocal about their dislike for Carl Johnson when he's actually the best and most well written character of the series, they like Ray Liotta's Scarface spoof instead.

Like I wonder if gamers would react well to Aveline or Adewale had they been the stars of their own game, many people like the characters but the fact that its a side game means that it has a restricted audience anyway. And now Ubisoft is putting Shao Jun in another side-game, a 2D side-scroller and the comic Brahman has an Indian Assassin. You can't help but see a trend of side-games and comics featuring more diversity characters while main games remain a white person's world. Not that I think that Black Flag is not a great game(it is) and the French Revolutionaries number among my all time favorite white people (they were the only explicitly anti-racist abolitionist world revolution until the 20th Century) only they make them sound like posh English aristocrats, who in real-life were major counter-revolutionaries needless to say, with Edmund Burke criticizing the Revolution for being run by "Jew brokers" because he hated the fact that the Revolutionaries were giving full citizenship to Jews.

Assassin's Creed III is not without its problems, for one thing there's only one village representing Native American difficulties in the frontier, when there should be many villages. The cast only features four characters from the Kanienkahaka with speaking roles. I mean there's nothing like Connor starting a Native American Assassin brotherhood or a joint Mixed white-black-Native group. Instead all his recruits are white and among the Homestead, you only have one African-American couple. And as a whole the story is really more about Haytham than Connor's mother, with again, the DLC - side content, correcting the balance somewhat. So I think the story and developers short changed Connor themselves. But again despite that the character is compelling as a whole and he could have been done right and the game deserves some credit for what it does. But you know the fact that there's this backlash and Ubisoft have essentially started pretending that Connor doesn't exist is pretty insulting on the whole, even if from a storytelling point of view, America as a setting dries up until the Civil War, so I get that Connor is a one-game man, but I don't get Ubisoft's dismissal of him at the expense of his own supporting cast (Achilles, Haytham).